C.J. Fredrick...Question?

[IllQChawk]

There has been a lot of comments about C.J. Fredrick on here, both positive and not so positive, about what he will provide for the Hawks this year.
Seeing that he's been at Iowa already a year, I'd expect a 6' 4" player of his ability to provide defense, 3 point shooting, the ability to drive and finish or kick out to open shooters. If he's as efficient as I think he will, he should have the ability to provide double digit scoring, say 10 to 12 points a game.
For discussion sake what is everyone expecting from him, and what would it take for him to fill the void that Isaiah Moss left as a graduate transfer?

 

[CP84]

There has been a lot of comments about C.J. Fredrick on here, both positive and not so positive, about what he will provide for the Hawks this year.
Seeing that he's been at Iowa already a year, I'd expect a 6' 4" player of his ability to provide defense, 3 point shooting, the ability to drive and finish or kick out to open shooters. If he's as efficient as I think he will, he should have the ability to provide double digit scoring, say 10 to 12 points a game.
For discussion sake what is everyone expecting from him, and what would it take for him to fill the void that Isaiah Moss left as a graduate transfer?

Moss was a 4th year player and averaged less than 10 ppg.

If Bohannon plays then I would predict the following:

Wieskamp 15 ppg
Garza 14 ppg
Bohannon 11 ppg
Nunge 9 ppg
Fredrick 8 ppg
Evelyn 7 ppg
Pemsl 5 ppg
Kriener 5 ppg
Toussaint 4 ppg
Connor 4 ppg

 

[doughawk]

It wouldn't seem that it would take much to replace Moss in the second half of games as he rarely played after the first few minutes. He was great the handful of games he came out hot to start a game but not someone I'd be concerned with replacing. I'd hope Fredrick would far surpass Moss this year.

 

[StormHawk42]

Something like 8 ppg, 35% from 3, not turn it over, and be an average defender would be a success imo

 

[The Deplorable Sleeping Dog]

I'm one that is excited about CJ and what I've heard about Joe T and CJ on the floor together.

The guys that have seen them play together in scrimmages say they are both shit talking in your face defenders that attack the ball. Also that Joe T has a quick burst and CJ sort of floats into Joe T's open spot and they play well together. CJ reportedly has a quick release and plays pretty heads up with and without the ball.

I have an inclination that CJ is a guy whose recruiting rankings froze when he signed with us. His senior year, including the state tournament games, are all very impressive.

C McC and Bakari will probably be the starters for the first tip off but I think we're going to see a lot of the two freshmen early and often.

 

[And1Hawk]

I'm one that is excited about CJ and what I've heard about Joe T and CJ on the floor together.

The guys that have seen them play together in scrimmages say they are both shit talking in your face defenders that attack the ball. Also that Joe T has a quick burst and CJ sort of floats into Joe T's open spot and they play well together. CJ reportedly has a quick release and plays pretty heads up with and without the ball.

I have an inclination that CJ is a guy whose recruiting rankings froze when he signed with us. His senior year, including the state tournament games, are all very impressive.

C McC and Bakari will probably be the starters for the first tip off but I think we're going to see a lot of the two freshmen early and often.

That’s a lot of koolaid.

 

[The Deplorable Sleeping Dog]

That’s a lot of koolaid.

I know, that's what scares me. I'm not usually given to such blind faith and optimism about kids that have never played any college ball.

 

[mazda1]

I’m far less concerned about his offense then his defense. We can live with fewer points if we defend better.

Double digits is a pipe dream. If he can penetrate and dish a little and, hit wide open 3’s, and defend the dribble drive we’ve got to consider it a win.

 

[Obviously Oblivious]

Mike Gatens weighed in last week on the local sports radio show and he mentioned 6 players at Iowa who are great all around players who know how to play the game and Joe T and CJ were two of those 6 guys. I’m keeping my optimism alive that they’ll be more than adequate in their respective roles.

 

[And1Hawk]

I know, that's what scares me. I'm not usually given to such blind faith and optimism about kids that have never played any college ball.

It might be spot on, but I’m a like to see it first person. I’m not sure what can really be gleaned from practice reports. There’s no true opposing competition involved.

 

[iahawkeyes17]

Mike Gatens weighed in last week on the local sports radio show and he mentioned 6 players at Iowa who are great all around players who know how to play the game and Joe T and CJ were two of those 6 guys. I’m keeping my optimism alive that they’ll be more than adequate in their respective roles.

I like your optimism but you got a lot of people who are skeptical because Fran always over hypes his guys and fear could be another oglesby/Ellingson player. Greatest practice 3 pt shooters (again listening to Fran praise them on this) but never lived up to hype as 3 pt specialist. However hearing mike gatens and not Fran saying that has me more encouraged.

 

[Buffalo43]

From what i have read and seen CJ appears to be a very heady player and shot maker

 

[The Deplorable Sleeping Dog]

Here's where I think the difference lies. There is a ton of video of CJ. Watch that video and think back to what we saw with Ogles, who was a decent college player but not the great shooter reputed to be, or Ellingson who was obviously a below average Big Ten player.

CJ is obviously quicker and a better ball handler than either Ogles or Brady. CJ has an obviously quicker release than either Ogles or Brady. No one knows for sure how a kid will turn out but I think its a mistake to conflate those three players.

 

[L. Wade Childress]

I don’t think he’s quite 6-4

 

[unoHawkeye]

Here's where I think the difference lies. There is a ton of video of CJ. Watch that video and think back to what we saw with Ogles, who was a decent college player but not the great shooter reputed to be, or Ellingson who was obviously a below average Big Ten player.

CJ is obviously quicker and a better ball handler than either Ogles or Brady. CJ has an obviously quicker release than either Ogles or Brady. No one knows for sure how a kid will turn out but I think its a mistake to conflate those three players.

You can also watch pretty much any CJF highlight video and it’s apparent that his on court confidence/personality/swagger is much more comparable to Bohannon than Oglesby

 

[IllQChawk]

Moss was a 4th year player and averaged less than 10 ppg.

If Bohannon plays then I would predict the following:

Wieskamp 15 ppg
Garza 14 ppg
Bohannon 11 ppg
Nunge 9 ppg
Fredrick 8 ppg
Evelyn 7 ppg
Pemsl 5 ppg
Kriener 5 ppg
Toussaint 4 ppg
Connor 4 ppg

Wow, that's an 82 point average even without the top 70 recruit in Patrick McCaffery!
And I didn't even bring Patrick up for discussion.
Should Patrick be added to this discussion or be given his own thread? If his bother averaged more then 2 points a game last year, Patrick could double that total or more if given the minutes behind Wieskamp, but I'm guessing he will not go without scoring a single point for the entire season, even if he averages a mere 1 minute a game. And that's not going to happen.

 

[CP84]

Wow, that's an 82 point average even without the top 70 recruit in Patrick McCaffery!
And I didn't even bring Patrick up for discussion.
Should Patrick be added to this discussion or be given his own thread? If his bother averaged more then 2 points a game last year, Patrick could double that total or more if given the minutes behind Wieskamp, but I'm guessing he will not go without scoring a single point for the entire season, even if he averages a mere 1 minute a game. And that's not going to happen.

The 82 ppg is a misrepresentation of reality. Last year's roster aggregate ppg average would be 87.9. If you remove Pemsl it's still 83.9. The team avg was 78 ppg. You'll obviously have injuries and such during the season which contribute to this as we saw with Garza and Cook last year.

So my totals aren't out of line with last season averages.

If Pat plays, I imagine he'll be somewhere around a 5-6 ppg avg.

 

[The Deplorable Sleeping Dog]

Think Joey T and Luke are collectively 34-38 pts between them and a lot of guys average 5-8. Think these guys will get up and down the court and score a lot of points.

 

[2432Hawk]

https://hawkeyesports.com/news/2019...h-hoops-iq-will-help-hawkeyes-in-2019-20.aspx

 

[TheTruthTheWholeTruth]

Think Joey T and Luke are collectively 34-38 pts between them and a lot of guys average 5-8. Think these guys will get up and down the court and score a lot of points.

Change that T to a W, brother.

 

[CP84]

Change that T to a W, brother.

If it's T...Championship

 

[supahawk]

For those of you that have seen practice or even pickup games, it sounds like CJ has a similar skill set to Joe W. Both smart players that do everything well. I know Joe was ranked higher and is a couple of inches taller but is CJ a smaller, quicker version of Joe? So many unknown pieces on this team but I think it should be a fun year especially with the tough non conference slate. Good depth inside, athletic wings, bucket makers, and quick defenders on the perimeter. The only thing I worry about is experience and rebounding.

 

[HoustonHawkeye]

Mike Gatens weighed in last week on the local sports radio show and he mentioned 6 players at Iowa who are great all around players who know how to play the game and Joe T and CJ were two of those 6 guys. I’m keeping my optimism alive that they’ll be more than adequate in their respective roles.

So who did Gatens list as the other all around players?

 

[pocha444444]

Moss was a 4th year player and averaged less than 10 ppg.

Moss also played only 24 min a game. Although he did avg 11 pts junior year while playing the same minutes.

 

[Titanhawk2]

Will they begin the year playing any defense?

 

[Jizzer]

So who did Gatens list as the other all around players?

Probably easy to include Joe and Garza in this.

 

[pocha444444]

Probably easy to include Joe and Garza in this.

Garza would have to mean all around offensive player.

 

[Obviously Oblivious]

So who did Gatens list as the other all around players?

I believe he included Joe Cool, Luka, Connor & Pat McC. I listened to it again and he was talking about overall court awareness (ability to execute in all phases of the game and understand situational complexities). He didn't intend to say the other players are deficient or lacking skill necessarily, just that those 6 in particular have a great "court awareness", whatever that means in Mike's mind anyway and I'm probably over interpreting his meaning honestly.

I always enjoy hearing from people who have an inside look at practices. He also said they seem to have a great team chemistry and that they're all having fun practicing and scrimmaging together. He singled out Joe T and CJ as two guys who really get after it in practice, that like to jaw at their opponent and talk a little smack.

 

[Legend12]

Think Joey T and Luke are collectively 34-38 pts between them and a lot of guys average 5-8. Think these guys will get up and down the court and score a lot of points.

You are insane.

 

[IllQChawk]

You are insane.

Believe it or not Legend, I'm kind of with you on this one. Not that Wieskamp and Luka couldn't average 34 to 38 points between them but because the minutes are going to be so spread out between 10/11 players that I don't think you're going to see extended minutes by anyone until later in the year.
By then players averages will be pretty established with probably one player averaging near 15 points a game and 4 or 5 others hovering at or just near double digits. That sounds typical of Fran's MO.

 

[Legend12]

Believe it or not Legend, I'm kind of with you on this one. Not that Wieskamp and Luka couldn't average 34 to 38 points between them but because the minutes are going to be so spread out between 10/11 players that I don't think you're going to see extended minutes by anyone until later in the year.
By then players averages will be pretty established with probably one player averaging near 15 points a game and 4 or 5 others hovering at or just around double digits. That sounds typical of Fran's MO.

He said Joe T, not Joe W.

 

[IllQChawk]

Ah, my bad, or his bad, however you want to interpret it. Joe T was not recruited to score, but to play defense and create for others, as a freshmen point guard that's all you want out of him. The scoring will come down the road.

 

[Suterman]

I believe he included Joe Cool, Luka, Connor & Pat McC. I listened to it again and he was talking about overall court awareness (ability to execute in all phases of the game and understand situational complexities). He didn't intend to say the other players are deficient or lacking skill necessarily, just that those 6 in particular have a great "court awareness", whatever that means in Mike's mind anyway and I'm probably over interpreting his meaning honestly.

I always enjoy hearing from people who have an inside look at practices. He also said they seem to have a great team chemistry and that they're all having fun practicing and scrimmaging together. He singled out Joe T and CJ as two guys who really get after it in practice, that like to jaw at their opponent and talk a little smack.

I think Mike also alluded to basketball IQ as well. It's always good to hear from Gater.

 

[The Deplorable Sleeping Dog]

I am getting senile or something. Again, thinking one person, typing another. I meant Weiskamp. I think he'll be 18-30 and Luka 14-16, to be a little more clear. Jamaal Wilkes for Bobby Dandridge,

There won't be 10/11 other guys getting time. Maybe 9 other guys and some that get some significant minutes Joe Toussaint and probably Connor McC are going to be on the low end of the 5-8 PPG range cuz scoring isn't going to be the reason they're on the floor.

 

[HawkLogic]

I know, that's what scares me. I'm not usually given to such blind faith and optimism about kids that have never played any college ball.

hopefully you are correct. I'm not expecting much.

 

[HaydenHawk8]

If he can average 6-8pts that’ll be fine. I really look for Joe W to have a Peter Jok type year. Something in the 20ppg.

I think Joe & Garza are our two headed monster. Who is gonna be that 3rd scorer?

 

[unoHawkeye]

If he can average 6-8pts that’ll be fine. I really look for Joe W to have a Peter Jok type year. Something in the 20ppg.

I think Joe & Garza are our two headed monster. Who is gonna be that 3rd scorer?

You are underestimating Iowa’s other scorers, in my opinion. If Wieskamp averages 20+ points per game, it wouldn’t necessarily be a good thing for our Hawks

 

[HaydenHawk8]

You are underestimating Iowa’s other scorers, in my opinion. If Wieskamp averages 20+ points per game, it wouldn’t necessarily be a good thing for our Hawks

who are our other scorers? I’m just thinking back to last year? Connor, pemsl, etc..? Not saying they won’t be good, but Joe just seems to have that it factor. With all the players leaving/moving on. I don’t know whole lot about our new guys.

that’s why I think Joe will be a vital piece to this years team. I think as he does, so does Iowa. I think Garza, Nunge have huge years. But we need another wing scorer like moss was (I know he was Jekyll and Hyde at times).

 

[HoustonREDHawk]

Like many, I kept hoping for more from Moss, but except for short spurts of great shooting, he was mostly a no-show on offense. I expect CJ to be better with the ball in his hands, with more driving and passing ability than Moss. He might not be a better shooter from outside, but I think CJ will also be able to shoot a variety of shots. On defense, Moss was a decent defender, but his lack of aggression kept him from being potentially good. I think CJ is a little smaller, but I hope he has at least similar quickness and more court awareness.

Based on reports, the biggest upside with CJ from Moss will be court awareness and ability to play as part of a team on the court--better ball movement and off-ball movement on offense; better help defense and aggressiveness on defense. Hope I am right.

 

[kceasthawk]

The 82 ppg is a misrepresentation of reality. Last year's roster aggregate ppg average would be 87.9. If you remove Pemsl it's still 83.9. The team avg was 78 ppg. You'll obviously have injuries and such during the season which contribute to this as we saw with Garza and Cook last year.

So my totals aren't out of line with last season averages.

If Pat plays, I imagine he'll be somewhere around a 5-6 ppg avg.

From everything Fran and Pat have said to this point, there is no doubt he's playing this season, barring an injury or something. Patricks been involved and worked with the current players for the last couple of years, so despite his slight build he's certainly ahead of the game for an incoming freshman.