Let’s not kid ourselves. The NLWC has a blank check from a guy with essentially unlimited funds. They have as much money as they need, and they’ve had that much since Carl got there.
Can Iowa beat Penn State for team title?
- Thread starter Jesses_Wrestling_Show
- Start date
6 or 7 years ago (maybe even longer) on this board it was brought up that Cael had built his college program into a powerhouse. That the next step in the process was to surpass the HWC and all others and help build the NLWC into the premier club in the nation. Everyone here laughed. Today, the HWC is now in "catch up" mode ...
I wish you weren't just some turd keyboard warrior so I could punch you in your ugly face!
It has been discussed, go back and read.
Yes it is a garbage ride when not used to advance position and look to turn bottom man. We had a HS team that taught it and used it the same way as the F*** guys. The rule is already in place to make a stall call. The top man is not really out to the side if he is on the overlay, so if he is not looking to turn the man a stall should be called.
The grey area is kind of like a leg ride where you can be parallel and not get hit for stalling. I have stated before, and it should be made a rule on ever ride. Legs, spiral, overlay, figure 4, whatever. If used by the top man with no advancement, a warning should be issued that if used again with no advancement. It is an automatic 1 point to bottom man.
This way if they go to the over lay,(or any other stall ride) and are just hanging on. The Ref can give them a warning. If they choose to go back to the same ride, they have to be looking to score. They can work out of it, getting to a bar, half, something where they are at least committing to trying to turn the guy.
Really need to get that and a push out rule in place to continue to advance the sport and create more action in my opinion.
OK, well on a basic level 15 million would not have gotten it done, so no facility.I’m not mixing apples and oranges. I realize the school is separate from the HWC. The point I was making is that if the Iowa faithful are raising funds, they probably want to maximize the benefit to Iowa wrestling.
Iowa raised more than $25 million from 225 private donors:
Donations for Hawkeyes’ wrestling facility tops $25M
IOWA CITY — Iowa’s fund-raising campaign for a new wrestling training facility next to Carver-Hawkeye Arena has gone past the $25 million mark, the athletic department announced Wednesday. Since launching the Carver Circle campaign nearly two years ago, a total of 225 supporters have...www.timesrepublican.com
When it’s all said and done, Iowa will have a gorgeous facility. But the HWC will still be underfunded.
Come on smalls 90% of top game in college are stall rides, sure some make it look good but everyone sees its just riding looking busy for those few.
OH, sorry, did not think this needed a reply??? The double thigh pry is never going to be a stall ride in and of itself. You are not going to see anyone ride someone out for 2 minutes with it. IF however someone was to use it, go to an ankle lest say, and kept at it with no serious attempt to turn the bottom man. Then yes, as with the others, call the stall!
I would exercise some caution going so far as of penalizing the top wrestler for stalling, while absolutely agreeing that stalling on top is a 'thing' in need of correction.
Riding is also a skill, that not all can master, and in some situations is an integral part of the sport.
Are you really proposing with say 1:30 left to go in a tied match, where the kid on top controls the bottom guy while trying to gain that point and win the match, only to get warned and docked a point to lose the match? Not a good solution.
Don't forget the kid on bottom's job is to get a reversal or escape and failing to do so is a deficiency.
So the real issue is the difference between exercising control and truly stalling. One of my frustrations is watching a kid on top with double boots in, failing to attemp any legitimate turns, only to have the bottom guy, warned and eventually called for stalling. Have you ever had double boots put in on you, there is not a friggin thing you can do.
So what's my solution? (Willie comments?)
1) Riding, however boring at times, is absolutely a skill that should continue to be rewarded with RT point. It's the abuse we should address. Likewise many of the times where a wrestler wins with 4 minutes of RT is a boring match.
2) Once a wrestler has accumulated 1:30 in riding time, he has to be working for an obvious turn or pinning combination or the action is stopped very quickly and judiciously (a la Freestyle), and a restart is on order. I am somewhat open to the idea of a restart in neutral, but prefer down as an incremental step.
3) in instances where 1:00 of riding time has not yet been achieved, stalling on top cannot be called, but the ref can stop the action and restart if the top wrestler is not showing initiative to work for a pinning combination or a turn.
4) PS - a related component of this is the concept of a free release from top during the action. I think we might see less stalling on top of the top wrestler were able to (here's the hard part) while exhibiting total control of the bottom wrestler, request a free release and have the ref grant it. i e. allow a return to neutral without awarding a point for an escape. Think about it, if the top wrestler say after a takedown is not penalized for releasing the bottom guy I think we would see less of an incentive to stall on top.
As for #4 - it also bugs me that in catch and release, the inferior wrestler is rewarded for being let go. To see a guy 3-0 in takedowns only have a 6-3 lead is problematic in my book. How many more Majors and Tech Falls and dare I say 'action' will we see if a free release were available. This one would change the dynamic of folk pushing it closer to free, which may not be a bad thing for those kids who move on to free after their careers.
Riding is also a skill, that not all can master, and in some situations is an integral part of the sport.
Are you really proposing with say 1:30 left to go in a tied match, where the kid on top controls the bottom guy while trying to gain that point and win the match, only to get warned and docked a point to lose the match? Not a good solution.
Don't forget the kid on bottom's job is to get a reversal or escape and failing to do so is a deficiency.
So the real issue is the difference between exercising control and truly stalling. One of my frustrations is watching a kid on top with double boots in, failing to attemp any legitimate turns, only to have the bottom guy, warned and eventually called for stalling. Have you ever had double boots put in on you, there is not a friggin thing you can do.
So what's my solution? (Willie comments?)
1) Riding, however boring at times, is absolutely a skill that should continue to be rewarded with RT point. It's the abuse we should address. Likewise many of the times where a wrestler wins with 4 minutes of RT is a boring match.
2) Once a wrestler has accumulated 1:30 in riding time, he has to be working for an obvious turn or pinning combination or the action is stopped very quickly and judiciously (a la Freestyle), and a restart is on order. I am somewhat open to the idea of a restart in neutral, but prefer down as an incremental step.
3) in instances where 1:00 of riding time has not yet been achieved, stalling on top cannot be called, but the ref can stop the action and restart if the top wrestler is not showing initiative to work for a pinning combination or a turn.
4) PS - a related component of this is the concept of a free release from top during the action. I think we might see less stalling on top of the top wrestler were able to (here's the hard part) while exhibiting total control of the bottom wrestler, request a free release and have the ref grant it. i e. allow a return to neutral without awarding a point for an escape. Think about it, if the top wrestler say after a takedown is not penalized for releasing the bottom guy I think we would see less of an incentive to stall on top.
As for #4 - it also bugs me that in catch and release, the inferior wrestler is rewarded for being let go. To see a guy 3-0 in takedowns only have a 6-3 lead is problematic in my book. How many more Majors and Tech Falls and dare I say 'action' will we see if a free release were available. This one would change the dynamic of folk pushing it closer to free, which may not be a bad thing for those kids who move on to free after their careers.
Agree with a few of your points, especially number 4. The problem is I feel people would learn how to game the "he didn't escape, I let him go" thing, so I think your best bet would be to call quicker stalemates in general, and on any restart allow the top wrestler to let the bottom guy up without an escape point.
I can definitely see where it would get abused. Get the takedown, immediately cut him at any restart locks in the 2 points, and escapes become a thing of the past as the bottom guy wouldn't get a chance to escape. I like the idea of free release, but can see it taken advantage of.
I can buy into free release at the start of the period.
So if you has someone good on bottom who is known to escape or get a reversal that chooses down to start the period. The top wrestler then gives the free release to avoid giving the escape? I understand the concept of a free release but I think you will see less bottom wrestling.
Yeah. I think that's the goal. Say what you want. But FS is a better product right now. Namely because its mostly wrestling on the feet.
That is a purely subjective evaluation. I actually like watching the intricacies of mat wrestling, because I understand how hard it is at that level and how good even the guys that look bad, to the layman, actually are.
I DO NOT want wrestling to become neutral wrestling only. There is a definite deficiency to your wrestling if you can’t control someone on the ground and it is a strong equalizer if someone can’t control you.
With the right referee properly initiating action and the right wrestlers going at it, I don’t think Freestyle holds a candle to Folk. In fact, I would say Folk requires considerably more skill and is much harder to master.
We just don’t have the best comparison because we can only compare college age DI wrestlers to adult world class athletes from around the world. If the Russians and Iranians wrestled Folk along with guys like JB, Taylor, Snyder, etc. the product would undoubtedly be OUSTANDING…
It comes down to individual championships and bonus points, states captain obvious. OSU is 5,4,3,4,5 since 2017. It's hard to beat those numbers.
I actually don't think so. Or, at the least, you'd the GB doing what UWW did... changing the rule set to make it more exciting.
As someone who is completely obsessed with wrestling (folk and FS), I understand and appreciate the nuance of riding. I love coaching mat wrestling as well. BUT, we can all admit, its boring as hell to watch.
Tom Ryan and the entire Jordan Family would be happy to not have to get off bottom.
I want to see hard rides and some really good work from bottom. I have been going back and watching some old matches 2018-2020 on BTN+ Some things I have really enjoyed watching is the progression of Spencer Lee. He was good from the start but the guys that could beat him avoided his first and second top game to make the third period a winner takes all. I watched a Nolf Panteleo match where Nolf when back to being a basic hammer on top rather than cat and mouse on his feet. You see freestyle guys that never are great at folk. Some folk guys that never fully make the free transition. And the rare few that become hammers at both. To be great at folk you can't be weak in one position and try and compensate with the others. To win close matches you must be able to escape with short time, ride out when needed, and get a takedown of your own set up. Eventually you will be exposed if you can't do one of these.
I want to see hard rides and some really good work from bottom. I have been going back and watching some old matches 2018-2020 on BTN+ Some things I have really enjoyed watching is the progression of Spencer Lee. He was good from the start but the guys that could beat him avoided his first and second top game to make the third period a winner takes all. I watched a Nolf Panteleo match where Nolf when back to being a basic hammer on top rather than cat and mouse on his feet. You see freestyle guys that never are great at folk. Some folk guys that never fully make the free transition. And the rare few that become hammers at both. To be great at folk you can't be weak in one position and try and compensate with the others. To win close matches you must be able to escape with short time, ride out when needed, and get a takedown of your own set up. Eventually you will be exposed if you can't do one of these.
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