Can you refuse a pardon offer? I heard you can...

[uihawk82]

And some like Mark Milley and Fauci said they didnt want a pardon.

But Prez Biden does have clear worries that Repubs will go after many on their lists and it will cost those people a lot of money in legal fees plus the harse times.

Did Mark Milley go a crime? Liz Cheney do a crime, I thought she did her job?

Hell Jim Jordan and the other country boy gomer who had the hearings to go after Biden didnt get anything done in 4 years, not one bit of evidence. So that means the Repubs will go after people who didnt do anything.

 

[Bonerfarts]

You can, but any lawyer will tell you never to refuse it.

 

[tarheelbybirth]

A better route, IMHO, would have been for every single person they tried to bring in to testify as part of any investigation to just tell them to pound sand.

"Ms. Cheney is in contempt of Congress!!"

 

[Finance85]

Joes Place has said for years that it's a requirement that one admit guilt in order to accept a pardon. Where is he anyway? Has he left the country or moved off the grid?

 

[fredjr82]

Joes Place has said for years that it's a requirement that one admit guilt in order to accept a pardon. Where is he anyway? Has he left the country or moved off the grid?

Living rent free in your head it appears.

 

[IIowaFarmBoy]

Joes Place has said for years that it's a requirement that one admit guilt in order to accept a pardon. Where is he anyway? Has he left the country or moved off the grid?

A bunch have disappeared. Likely took the same bus.

 

[Here_4_a_Day]

Joes Place has said for years that it's a requirement that one admit guilt in order to accept a pardon. Where is he anyway? Has he left the country or moved off the grid?

Working a 4th job to pay his alimony.......

 

[Here_4_a_Day]

Living rent free in your head it appears.

There is no free rent in the world jo biden created for us >

 

[Finance85]

Living rent free in your head it appears.

I guess I'm living rent free in your head it appears.

 

[Titanhawk2]

And some like Mark Milley and Fauci said they didnt want a pardon.

But Prez Biden does have clear worries that Repubs will go after many on their lists and it will cost those people a lot of money in legal fees plus the harse times.

Did Mark Milley go a crime? Liz Cheney do a crime, I thought she did her job?

Hell Jim Jordan and the other country boy gomer who had the hearings to go after Biden didnt get anything done in 4 years, not one bit of evidence. So that means the Repubs will go after people who didnt do anything.

There is Go Fund Me. They should stand up for themselves then

 

[CarolinaHawkeye]

Living rent free in your head it appears.

There's plenty of space there.

 

[uihawk82]

There is no free rent in the world jo biden created for us >

View embedded media

Haha, laughable comment. You are saying Joe Biden caused Fairfax county VA schools with a total attendance of 183,000 students who speak 200 languages to have a budget deficit? Biden ordered them to spend all that money and ordered them to teach all 200 languages? ESL has been going on for decades. And you think all these people who cant speak english moved there starting in 2021, what was in your koolaid?

I think their district and county and state have the local control over the schools. The population of the county is 1.1 million, one county with 1/3 the population of Iowa.

It is a beltway bandit county if you know what that is. The eastern half of the county has two outer interstate beltway loops around Wash DC going right thru that county. The beltway is normally rich people area.

I think the county needs to raise their taxes 1 % or so on the rich people there to help pay the shortfall or vote to cut the school spending. Dont go crazy blaming it on Biden, a local school issue.

 

[Here_4_a_Day]

Haha, laughable comment. You are saying Joe Biden caused Fairfax county VA schools with a total attendance of 183,000 students who speak 200 languages to have a budget deficit? Biden ordered them to spend all that money and ordered them to teach all 200 languages? ESL has been going on for decades. And you think all these people who cant speak english moved there starting in 2021, what was in your koolaid?

I think their district and county and state have the local control over the schools. The population of the county is 1.1 million, one county with 1/3 the population of Iowa.

It is a beltway bandit county if you know what that is. The eastern half of the county has two outer interstate beltway loops around Wash DC going right thru that county. The beltway is normally rich people area.

I think the county needs to raise their taxes 1 % or so on the rich people there to help pay the shortfall or vote to cut the school spending. Dont go crazy blaming it on Biden, a local school issue.

Yes.

 

[thewop]

You can, but any lawyer will tell you never to refuse it.

This. Why would you ever refuse? Especially a blanket pardon that basically let's you do anything.

It's a great insurance policy!

 

[Hoosierhawkeye]

Joes Place has said for years that it's a requirement that one admit guilt in order to accept a pardon. Where is he anyway? Has he left the country or moved off the grid?

It's not.

Somehow we decided that blanket pardons for "any crime you may have committed" were legal at least going back to Nixon.

However the pardon does in a sense make it look like you've committed a crime. Quite frankly I've had several grips about Biden but perhaps the biggest one is his pardoning decisions. Pardoning his son was corrupt. But these blanket pardons he issued basically play into the right wing narrative that they committed a crime without them ever having to present any evidence of a crime.

 

[Slappy Pappy]

Capitol rioter says she'll refuse pardon from Donald Trump

"I will refuse a pardon from felon Trump!" Pamela Hemphill wrote on X.

www.newsweek.com

 

[GolfHacker1]

It's not.

Somehow we decided that blanket pardons for "any crime you may have committed" were legal at least going back to Nixon.

However the pardon does in a sense make it look like you've committed a crime. Quite frankly I've had several grips about Biden but perhaps the biggest one is his pardoning decisions. Pardoning his son was corrupt. But these blanket pardons he issued basically play into the right wing narrative that they committed a crime without them ever having to present any evidence of a crime.

SCOTUS regarding pardons:

“carries "an imputation of guilt and acceptance of a confession of it,…”

It needs to be viewed in context, but my post is actually based on fact and law, unlike 99% of the made up narrative by posters in this echo chamber, confirmation bias sewer.

 

[SoProudNole]

'We were wrong': Rioter who turned down pardon slams Trump's 'insult' to Capitol Police​

An Idaho woman who was nicknamed "MAGA Granny" after being sentenced to 60 days in jail for her role in the Capitol riots of Jan. 6, 2021, said she turned down President Donald Trump's pardon.

Pamela Hemphill, who was part of an anti-government group led by Ammon Bundy, apologized after being sentenced: "I fully regret everything I said and did at the Capitol."

In an interview with BBC this week, she said she would not accept Trump's pardon.

"We were wrong that day," she told the network. "Accepting a pardon would only insult the Capitol police officers, rule of law and, of course, our nation."

"I pleaded guilty because I was guilty, and accepting a pardon also would serve to contribute to their gaslighting and false narrative."

Link

 

[Hoosierhawkeye]

SCOTUS regarding pardons:

“carries "an imputation of guilt and acceptance of a confession of it,…”

It needs to be viewed in context, but my post is actually based on fact and law, unlike 99% of the made up narrative by posters in this echo chamber, confirmation bias sewer.

It's not that simple, other court holdings after this have ruled that you can still try to overturn a conviction from which you have been pardoned for.

 

[tumorboy]

There is Go Fund Me. They should stand up for themselves then

Create a Meme Coin.

 

[GolfHacker1]

It's not that simple, other court holdings after this have ruled that you can still try to overturn a conviction from which you have been pardoned for.

I’m aware. What I posted is ditca, but not unimportant. The other court holdings you are likely referencing might not be as important.

In any event, none of this is really germane. The preemptive pardons probably need to be tested, but likely won’t due to the media circus it would create.

 

[fredjr82]

I guess I'm living rent free in your head it appears.

MAGA logic

 

[Hoosierhawkeye]

I’m aware. What I posted is ditca, but not unimportant. The other court holdings you are likely referencing might not be as important.

In any event, none of this is really germane. The preemptive pardons probably need to be tested, but likely won’t due to the media circus it would create.

I am sort of curious why they have not been tested. I suspect that it is because if President A issued a pre-emptive pardon than if the justice department under President B were to test these pardons by issuing an indictment and arguing that the pardons are unconstitutional via the courts it could potentially take and reduce the power of President B's pardoning power. And what president wants to reduce their own power??? And the only entity which has standing to test pre-emptive pardons is the justice department.

In any case I suspect the courts would uphold the pre-emptive pardon power because they have generally viewed the pardon power as unlimited in the past. And I quite frankly would suspect they would uphold a self pardon as well.

 

[Finance85]

It's not.

Somehow we decided that blanket pardons for "any crime you may have committed" were legal at least going back to Nixon.

However the pardon does in a sense make it look like you've committed a crime. Quite frankly I've had several grips about Biden but perhaps the biggest one is his pardoning decisions. Pardoning his son was corrupt. But these blanket pardons he issued basically play into the right wing narrative that they committed a crime without them ever having to present any evidence of a crime.

You think it was just a right wing narrative?

 

[Hoosierhawkeye]

You think it was just a right wing narrative?

It's entirely a right wing narrative that Anthony Fauchi, Adam Kinsinger, Liz Cheney etc committed a crime by going against the cult leader.

Now Hunter Biden, no he committed a crime and should have been held to account.

 

[Aardvark86]

I’m aware. What I posted is ditca, but not unimportant. The other court holdings you are likely referencing might not be as important.

In any event, none of this is really germane. The preemptive pardons probably need to be tested, but likely won’t due to the media circus it would create.

Stepping out of the political pardon cache, i understand that a couple of the convicted death sentence murderers may be trying to refuse a pardon for the purpose of continuing the appeals of their convictions.

BTW, that's some great big balls to do that

 

[BioHawk]

And some like Mark Milley and Fauci said they didnt want a pardon.

But Prez Biden does have clear worries that Repubs will go after many on their lists and it will cost those people a lot of money in legal fees plus the harse times.

Did Mark Milley go a crime? Liz Cheney do a crime, I thought she did her job?

Hell Jim Jordan and the other country boy gomer who had the hearings to go after Biden didnt get anything done in 4 years, not one bit of evidence. So that means the Repubs will go after people who didnt do anything.

And spend a large chunk of their wealth defending against the bullshit? Why bother? It's not like it's going to change your opinion of them anyway. Hell, after 12 years of investigations or whatever with zero evidence you all still claim Biden is the greatest criminal since Gotti. Take the pardon and tell those people to GFT.

 

[Aardvark86]

I am sort of curious why they have not been tested. I suspect that it is because if President A issued a pre-emptive pardon than if the justice department under President B were to test these pardons by issuing an indictment and arguing that the pardons are unconstitutional via the courts it could potentially take and reduce the power of President B's pardoning power. And what president wants to reduce their own power??? And the only entity which has standing to test pre-emptive pardons is the justice department.

In any case I suspect the courts would uphold the pre-emptive pardon power because they have generally viewed the pardon power as unlimited in the past. And I quite frankly would suspect they would uphold a self pardon as well.

I suspect it's simpler than that. The reality is that there just haven't been that many preemptive pardons - though I am pretty sure they go back further than Nixon. And up until recently, most people have been mature enough to say 'move on' as administrations change.

 

[tarheelbybirth]

Haha, laughable comment. You are saying Joe Biden caused Fairfax county VA schools with a total attendance of 183,000 students who speak 200 languages to have a budget deficit? Biden ordered them to spend all that money and ordered them to teach all 200 languages? ESL has been going on for decades. And you think all these people who cant speak english moved there starting in 2021, what was in your koolaid?

I think their district and county and state have the local control over the schools. The population of the county is 1.1 million, one county with 1/3 the population of Iowa.

It is a beltway bandit county if you know what that is. The eastern half of the county has two outer interstate beltway loops around Wash DC going right thru that county. The beltway is normally rich people area.

I think the county needs to raise their taxes 1 % or so on the rich people there to help pay the shortfall or vote to cut the school spending. Dont go crazy blaming it on Biden, a local school issue.

The median income of Fairfax of $150,000 is more than double the median US income.

 

[Hoosierhawkeye]

I suspect it's simpler than that. The reality is that there just haven't been that many preemptive pardons - though I am pretty sure they go back further than Nixon. And up until recently, most people have been mature enough to say 'move on' as administrations change.

I'm not sure, Ford's pre-emptive pardon of Nixon likely cost him against Jimmy Carter. The Carter justice department could have tested the pre-emptive pardon and it likely would have been fairly popular at the time.

I think it ultimately has to do with the fact that doing so would check the sitting president's power and no sitting president wants to do that.

It's sort of similar to the War Powers resolution. Congress enacted a law and overrode the veto of President Nixon which says that the president can't send the military into armed conflict in foreign nations for more than 60 days without congressional approval. Every president regardless of party has held that the war powers resolution is unconstitutional. There was even a court case about it and the court said it was out of their purview.

 

[Hoosierhawkeye]

Stepping out of the political pardon cache, i understand that a couple of the convicted death sentence murderers may be trying to refuse a pardon for the purpose of continuing the appeals of their convictions.

BTW, that's some great big balls to do that

I havn't heard that but their sentences were only commuted to life in prison. So some of them might have taken the view that life in prison is no life at all.

 

[Aardvark86]

I havn't heard that but their sentences were only commuted to life in prison. So some of them might have taken the view that life in prison is no life at all.

from what i read, there were i believe two cases where they were very specific about not wanting to screw up their pending appeals.

 

[Aardvark86]

I'm not sure, Ford's pre-emptive pardon of Nixon likely cost him against Jimmy Carter. The Carter justice department could have tested the pre-emptive pardon and it likely would have been fairly popular at the time.

I think it ultimately has to do with the fact that doing so would check the sitting president's power and no sitting president wants to do that.

It's sort of similar to the War Powers resolution. Congress enacted a law and overrode the veto of President Nixon which says that the president can't send the military into armed conflict in foreign nations for more than 60 days without congressional approval. Every president regardless of party has held that the war powers resolution is unconstitutional. There was even a court case about it and the court said it was out of their purview.

i'm sure that makes it easier to pass on testing things, but i'll chalk that one up to carter's temperament.

 

[artradley]

But these blanket pardons he issued basically play into the right wing narrative that they committed a crime without them ever having to present any evidence of a crime.

MAGA is going to be convinced they committed crimes no matter what. When the President and FBI Director say they are coming after innocent Americans, it is reasonable to offer them protection if it is within your power.

 

[tarheelbybirth]

Stepping out of the political pardon cache, i understand that a couple of the convicted death sentence murderers may be trying to refuse a pardon for the purpose of continuing the appeals of their convictions.

BTW, that's some great big balls to do that

Kind of off on a tangent...Darryl Hunt was convicted in 1985 and sentenced to life in prison for the rape and murder of Deborah Sykes in Winston-Salem. Irregularities in the first trial resulted in a retrial in 1990. Hunt was offered a plea bargain that would have freed him after serving just five years. Rather than admit guilt, he turned it down and spent another 14 years behind bars maintaining his innocence. DNA evidence finally led to Willard Brown who had been accused of a similar attack years earlier. Brown confessed and Hunt was completely exonerated and released after serving more than 19 years.

Hunt became an advocate for prison reform, was an award-winning speaker, and appeared at hundreds of schools, churches, and other events. I got to speak with him for a few minutes standing in line at Sears, of all places, and was able to tell him how much I admired him for his grace and compassion. Unfortunately, I don't think he ever got over those 19 years and he killed himself a few years later, just 12 years after he was freed.