At what point does this become enabling them? We tried the "you are important" and the trend says it makes it worse. At what point do we get back to "rub some dirt on it kid"?
CDC releases new data on mental health and suicide rates.
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I suppose that is possible, but I have not seen any data to support that.
If I had to guess, I would guess this is not the case. I have worked with a lot trans and lgbtq people and the common traits for these people is that they have anxiety, depression, and most of them have some life experience that changed them in some way, and they still are not able to cope. (of coarse this does not apply to all). Some may just not fit into the mold of the popular kids, or they may be social misfits.
I am sure that if the kids found a like minded community online, they may report feeling happier for a period of time. One of the reported indicators of happy people is deep meaningful relationships. I doubt a kid will receive this from an only community. So long term, these kids will still have a hard time and will struggle with depression and anxiety and possibly suicide.
I just gave you an article where they equate gender acceptance to overall acceptance. You are supposed to use your own judgement and see that it is possible that the key here is acceptance, not necessarily "gender" acceptance. I read this article and I don't think you can prove causation instead of just correlation.
I’m not sure I see a lot of that, but it could be a component.
My oldest is a freshman at NC State in the engineering college. So far this academic year, 8 NCSU students have died on campus. Based on reports and updates I’ve seen, it seems one was flu-related, one was alcohol-induced and 6 are believed to be suicide (5 in the engineering college).
I don’t know what the answers are, but it’s scary. We need to continue to promote mental health care and make it accessible. We check in with our son and he seems to be doing ok, but I wouldn’t be surprised if the parents of some of those kids did the same and also thought their kids were doing ok.
“It’s time to pass bipartisan legislation to stop Big Tech from collecting personal data on our kids and teenagers online,” Biden said in his address last week. “Ban targeted advertising on children, and impose stricter limits on the personal data that companies collect on all of us.”
Biden’s hard-line stance on banning online ads that target kids has plenty of support from both parties
President Joe Biden's call in his State of the Union address for bans on ads targeting kids may have hit the sweet spot for getting both parties to agree.
www.marketwatch.com
On the surface, this looks like a good step, might not help bullying, but it could reduce the addiction to social media?
Engineering is a tough gig no doubt. I think you also are seeing a high component of kids who were told they were the best of the best in their high school and thought they were great because they got in, now feeling average around their peer group.
That is one great thing about sports. For almost everyone, it teaches you to take some lumps. And, it also gives you practice letting go of some things that aren't working out for you or that you do not enjoy any longer...
I do think there is room for some of this. We spend a lot of time teaching kids to recognize bullying and to be a person who will stand up to bullies, but we don't spend much time teaching kids how to deflect bullying. At least at the elementary level the kids that get "teased" (bullied) a lot are the ones that give the biggest reaction.
I had a teacher who told us to not act upset, but laugh along when someone was teasing us and it wouldn't be as fun for the bully. That worked for me. We need to help victims develop coping skills.
Of course there are many situations that are too dangerous for the "rub some dirt on it" mentality. There's a reason bullying has been going on forever, it's a difficult problem to solve.
I think we should spend more time inculcating the "haters gonna hate" attitude in kids. Stop viewing yourself as a victim; start seeing assholes for what they are... idiots who are beneath you. Why should you care what they think?
(granted, that's not some salve for all the problems kids face, especially with something like bullying, but in general I think we're not leaning towards this approach to adversity enough)
I thought this was really interesting as it pertains to how we deal with conflict and adversity anymore:
heterodoxacademy.org
Victimhood culture explains what is happening at Emory
heterodoxacademy.org
I fully agree with this, I would change the bolded part to say, We all need to develop coping skills. Lots of bullies bully others because they are insecure about themselves.
Sure, that’s a component, but there are 40k kids on campus and there are thousands in the engineering college and most all of them have had some of those moments (mine has)…why do these kids go another way?
Someone mentioned sports and that can certainly help. My kid went from thinking he was good at baseball to getting cut multiple seasons to battling back and playing as a senior, there’s mental toughness and resiliency built into that…but how/why did my kid battle back where some just quit and find other pursuits and others quit and struggle with it (we have another kid we know who washed out of baseball, picked up drugs and now won’t graduate). We have to get better at finding people where they are and getting them the help they need to continue to live and breathe another day.
The "Words are violence" attitude that's prevalent now is a problem.. Get back to the "sticks and stones" attitude.
Always going to run into people that say things that offend you...and the bar for causing that offense seems to have gotten extremely low.
I have one of these elementary kids. He’s so sensitive and wants to be EVERYONE’s friend. He wants to hug everyone and be their best friend. Then he cries the loudest when picked at or rejected.
It’s hard explaining social nuances to a 9 year old who just wants to be liked, but I constantly tell him how to avoid bullying but not reacting
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Well living in a culture where getting shot at is just part of growing up might tend to have that effect.
Jaqueline Matthews, a member of the Michigan State rowing team, remembers crouching inside her school when gunfire erupted at nearby Sandy Hook Elementary. Now a decade later, the 21-year-old international law major was watching chaos outside her campus window, stunned to find herself here yet again.
“The fact that this is the second mass shooting that I have now lived through is incomprehensible,” she said in a TikTok video that she recorded in the early morning hours, demanding legislative action. “We can no longer allow this to happen. We can no longer be complacent.”
She wasn’t the only one experiencing her second mass shooting. Jennifer Mancini told the Detroit Free Press that her daughter also had survived the November 2021 shooting that left four students dead at Oxford High School in southeastern Michigan. Now a freshman at Michigan State, her daughter was traumatized anew.
apnews.com
Jaqueline Matthews, a member of the Michigan State rowing team, remembers crouching inside her school when gunfire erupted at nearby Sandy Hook Elementary. Now a decade later, the 21-year-old international law major was watching chaos outside her campus window, stunned to find herself here yet again.
“The fact that this is the second mass shooting that I have now lived through is incomprehensible,” she said in a TikTok video that she recorded in the early morning hours, demanding legislative action. “We can no longer allow this to happen. We can no longer be complacent.”
She wasn’t the only one experiencing her second mass shooting. Jennifer Mancini told the Detroit Free Press that her daughter also had survived the November 2021 shooting that left four students dead at Oxford High School in southeastern Michigan. Now a freshman at Michigan State, her daughter was traumatized anew.
Michigan State urges: ‘Run, Hide, Fight’ as gunfire erupts
EAST LANSING, Mich. (AP) — They broke out windows to escape, barricaded doors and hid under blankets. They silenced their phones — afraid to make even the slightest sound for hours as police searched for a gunman who had already killed three students and critically wounded five others on the...
apnews.com
Yeah, that's definitely the mindset I developed as a youth and it's stuck ever since. Granted, I'm not sure why, exactly. I do know it all crystalized for me early on while navigating the internet in its earlier days; you were constantly exposed to anonymous jackasses. (like HORT) You learned pretty quick you were going to be made into a fool if you took every slight against you personally. (or at least I did)
I kind of wonder though if part of our problem today is our leaning on the empathetic sorts -- maybe you could call them the therapist class of professionals -- a bit too much in our handling of conflict and development of interpersonal communication & behavioral norms.
These people are really good at pointing out what might be mean, what might cause discomfort, but their response to ameliorating it isn't right. These seem like the people that favor overly litigious, micro-managing efforts over behavior that lead to these "words are violence" attitudes. Which leads to "making a mountain out of a molehill"... which ain't good for all kinds of mental health.
I find them useful in ways, but rather unwise.
The new CDC report shows Covid added little to mental health trends
The Teen Mental Illness Epidemic, Part 2
jonathanhaidt.substack.com
It is pretty easy to forget how new cellphones and social media are to us. I put a few key dates together below.The new CDC report shows Covid added little to mental health trends
The Teen Mental Illness Epidemic, Part 2
2001 1st 3g network
2004 Facebook goes live
2005 youtube and reddit born
2006 Twitter goes live
2007 1st I phone
2008 1st android smartphone
2009 4g network
2010 Pinterest and Instagram born
2011 Instagram born
We have only had 15 years of the smartphone. It is possible this will get way worse, before it gets better.
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I could argue that we have really only had 10-12 years of widespread smartphone use. I think the iPhone hit critical mass in 2009 when the iPhone 3G came out and Android was really 2009-2011, as it was the 2nd/3rd generation of each device that really started hitting the mainstream.
These numbers look so terrible that I feel compelled to doubt them. I wonder what our historical numbers are for this question. (taken from Haidt's blog post linked above)
1. In the short term we need more and easier to access mental health services.
2. We need to find ways of creating real connections between people outside of electronic communication. A greater sense of community is needed.
3. I don't think the evidence shows us any direction on how we should treat trans youth. The issue is heavily complicated and is extremely new.
4. In order to expect our kids behave better towards one another adults need to do the same thing.
5. WE NEED TO ENCOURAGE INTACT FAMILIES AND LIFELONG MARRIAGES. I think you will find that children of single parents are more likely to commit and/or consider suicide, more likely to engage in violence, more likely to do drugs etc etc
2. We need to find ways of creating real connections between people outside of electronic communication. A greater sense of community is needed.
3. I don't think the evidence shows us any direction on how we should treat trans youth. The issue is heavily complicated and is extremely new.
4. In order to expect our kids behave better towards one another adults need to do the same thing.
5. WE NEED TO ENCOURAGE INTACT FAMILIES AND LIFELONG MARRIAGES. I think you will find that children of single parents are more likely to commit and/or consider suicide, more likely to engage in violence, more likely to do drugs etc etc
And the answer... does look pretty bad.These numbers look so terrible that I feel compelled to doubt them. I wonder what our historical numbers are for this question. (taken from Haidt's blog post linked above)
I agree with most of this. Not all the way they’re on “intact families” and “lifelong marriages”, but the concept behind both is encouraging healthy and stable adult relationships. Every time I hear about promoting “lifelong marriage” someone starts talking about restrictions on divorce/separation and I just can’t get there. There are a lot of reasons why people split up and sometimes the split is driven by the fact that the couple wasn’t in a healthy and stable adult relationship.
It’s not the lack of marriage or the divorce that causes the problem - it’s the unhealthy/unstable relationship that’s ending that causes the problems.
Fair to some extent but I think you are discounting the number of people who split up simply because doing so has been culturally acceptable.
A lot of people split up because "we grew apart" or "I got bored" or "we didn't talk about our problems" or "I wanted to find myself"
If someone is being toxic or abusive I can support the split up as a lesser of two evils. But I think you wildly over-estimate the number of people that split up because of someone being toxic and completely under-estimate the number of people who split up because they just quit due to a general lack of commitment and the knowledge that doing so is perfectly socially acceptable.
My cousin for example divorced her husband and told me she thinks it was because they didn't fight enough. I read that to mean that they didn't work out their problems and those problems just grew. I generally try to not be confrontational with people about their personal lives in order to preserve relationships (since I doubt I am going to change someone's mind anyways.) But my thought on that was . . . why not have the fight now? Why not sit down in front of a therapist (They certainly had the money for it.) and start working out your problems no matter if that takes a day, a month, or 10 freaking years.
It's not like my wife and I are stranger to tough times in a marriage. We reached a point where things were so bad between us that I could count on one hand the number of times we had sex in a year. But we stuck it out and worked out our problems quite frankly because both of us would have been too damn embarrassed to divorce unless the other person did something like commit adultery (which neither of us did.)
But because we stuck it out we managed to work it out when many other couples likely would have called it quits. And now we are having sex about twice a week on average.
Nice humble brag at the end 😜
I’m not going to argue your points because there’s a lot of truth in there, I’ve just seen when the discussion starts focusing on marriage, per se, we start getting into definitions of marriage and who qualifies and it just goes down a crappy road.
I’m a big fan of marriage - we’re 23 1/2 years in and going strong. I want my kids to find happy and healthy relationships in their lives. I have 3 boys (19, 16, 12) and my middle son is out as gay. Between that and me not being particularly religious, I get worn out fast when discussion of healthy and stable relationships starts going down the religious definition of marriage path.
I’m not going to argue your points because there’s a lot of truth in there, I’ve just seen when the discussion starts focusing on marriage, per se, we start getting into definitions of marriage and who qualifies and it just goes down a crappy road.
I’m a big fan of marriage - we’re 23 1/2 years in and going strong. I want my kids to find happy and healthy relationships in their lives. I have 3 boys (19, 16, 12) and my middle son is out as gay. Between that and me not being particularly religious, I get worn out fast when discussion of healthy and stable relationships starts going down the religious definition of marriage path.
Some may recall a thread about my crazy SIL who needs mental help but doesn't want it and believes everyone else is the problem. Here's how it relates.CDC report shows concerning increases in sadness and exposure to violence among teen girls and LGBQ+ youth | Fact Sheets | Newsroom | NCHHSTP | CDC
Your Connection to the Latest HIV/AIDS, Hepatitis, STD and TB News at CDCwww.cdc.gov
3 out of 5 girls reported feeling persistently sad or hopeless. This is a 60% increase from 2011.
I in 4 girls reported seriously considering suicide in 2021, up 60% from 2011.
1 in 10 girls reported attempting suicide, this is a 30% increase from 10 years ago.
In 2021, almost half of lgbtq students seriously considered suicide, 1 in 4 attempted suicide, and 3 out of 4 were persistently sad or hopeless.
This is not necessarily surprising data, but it is concerning and it should get our attention.
What I've learned is that there is very little that can be done to help unless someone wants it, and children are MOST vulnerable. I have little doubt that my 16 year old niece, being brainwashed by the crazy SIL to believe her father means harm to her and has totally lost her personality would be in this 3 out of 5 feeling hopelessness and sadness. Not sure about thoughts of suicide but it wouldn't surprise me.
Her crazy mother has her just where she wants her, and the niece won't trust her father to get her help. We were concerned for it to happen, it has, and at no point along the way have we been able to help.
Something has to be available for mental health intervention, particularly where kids are victims.
Societally speaking I don't really care about gay marriage as I see the bigger problem in the lack of heterosexual marriages especially when it comes to raising children.
This would include heterosexual divorces and single parent families and it would include heterosexuals who are making the choice to not have children or only having one child. Both of which are far more harmful to society than two gays getting married.
Societally speaking homosexuals would most benefit society by getting married and adopting all of the children that the irresponsible heterosexuals are producing until such time that we can make sexual responsibility the norm again. After that (if that ever happened) I wouldn't know what their role would be but that's something I think we could certainly figure out when we get there.
As far as the religious definition of marriage, I have a different religious definition of marriage but I don't think it makes sense for a multi-religious multi cultural society to define itself by any one religion's view of marriage but instead by what makes sense in terms of what is the most benefit to people. By that definition gay marriage makes sense.
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Maybe you just have a propensity for awkwardly wording things, but the end, basically you say if we get back to sexual responsibility being the norm again, you don’t know what role homosexuals would have? WTF is that? What role?
What I mean is I don't know what role they would play in the production and raising of the next generation.
What I mean by that is if we get back to sexual responsibility there will be far far fewer children in need of adoption. They would still exist because there would be orphans and there would still be irresponsible people just hopefully less of them. But there would be far less of them.
If that is the case I'm not sure if homosexuals would have a role when it comes to the next generation since they don't produce their own and adoptions would be more scarce and hard to come by.
They would still clearly have a role as members of society who would contribute to society via their work as well as voting, serving on juries, etc. But if adoptions are hard to come by their direct role in the next generation would be diminished as a result.
Fair enough….but even in that ideal world, there are still parents who die early, there will always be a % of dirtbags, etc. Certainly near-term, any additional legislation to make sex ed, birth control and abortion harder to come by and/or illegal is certainly not going to reduce the number of kids that would benefit from adoption.
I remember that thread and that situation is unfortunate. For your specific scenario, there is additional help to get the girl removed from the moms custody. Emotional abuse is still considered child abuse.
Unfortunately, I think what you are talking about is more a symptom of the issues rather than the problem itself. What is the cause of the SIL's craziness? money, job, legal, man issues, untreated mental health issue? Once you have this behavior trickle down to the child, then that child usually turns to friends for support and guidance. The child can be very vulnerable and also is more likely to spend large amounts of time on social media (after all, mom probably isnt that fun to be around). So it is really the start of a vicious downward spiral if the child does not have good coping skills.
Hmmm...well...lets talk about a certain medium sized high school in Eastern Iowa in the mid 80's. Bad bad bad drinking and bullying. A real life version of Heathers.
I guess social media makes it worse? Hard to imagine worse than getting drunk, passing out, and being dumped out in a country ditch.
I guess social media makes it worse? Hard to imagine worse than getting drunk, passing out, and being dumped out in a country ditch.
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