CDC, Vaccines and Autism

[uniFIGHTuniFIGHT]

I'm not actually, and the even the 'best flu vaccines', cover 4 different strands at once. With an unknown number of other strains not covered at all. Again, I'm glad vaccines at least took care of Scarlet Fever though.

Huh? Because the different flu shots don't inoculate everyone against all strains of influenza, vaccination is a fraud? And the fact that there isn't a successful vaccine for Scarlet Fever means that other vaccines are nonsense?

Edit: Also, BTW, it's worth remembering that nothing you've argued recently has anything to do with the MMR vaccine causing autism.

 

[HawktimusPrime]

Huh? Because the different flu shots don't inoculate everyone against all strains of influenza, vaccination is a fraud? And the fact that there isn't a successful vaccine for Scarlet Fever means that other vaccines are nonsense?

Edit: Also, BTW, it's worth remembering that nothing you've argued recently has anything to do with the MMR vaccine causing autism.

It was already proven earlier.

 

[HawktimusPrime]

No, polio was not "almost gone" before the vaccine. There was a huge epidemic (which I alluded to in my post) in the period around 1950, and the incidence was starting to decline very rapidly back towards its baseline level when the vaccine was introduced... now if you accept 10,000 cases a year as "almost gone" then I'd agree with you. It probably would have gone lower than that from better hygiene and from it being a post-epidemic period, but even two or three thousand cases of polio a year with its devastating long term effects is not acceptable. Plus, without the vaccine, there would have been hundreds of thousands of cases overseas, and with today's international travel, it would have been a disaster. The "surge" in polio after the vaccine was introduced was just a small natural fluctuation in the rapid decline in cases after the epidemic and before the population became protected by the vaccine. Saying that the vaccine caused a "surge" in polio is just bizarre.

It's not bizarre, cases actually were down to about 40, then they shot up to 6,000 as the vaccine was introduced.

 

[uniFIGHTuniFIGHT]

It was already proven earlier.

My bad. I forgot it was proven. And proven without credible objection. That was elementary on my part.

 

[uniFIGHTuniFIGHT]

It's not bizarre, cases actually were down to about 40, then they shot up to 6,000 as the vaccine was introduced.

O rly? Link? Promise not to have hurt feelings if others attack the credibility of your sources.

 

[NoleSoup4U]

That's because you didn't pay attention in school. You chose to become literate way too late in life.

C'mon dude. I'm not trying to tell you how to live your life, why do you care about how I live mine? I don't get sick, I never get the flu, I rarely get colds, and I hate taking antibiotics because they make me feel worse than whatever I have. Don't get mad at me because my body can fight off naturally what others can't.

I don't get sick and I have a high pain threshold. I don't know what to tell you. Maybe it's the anger inside that keeps me healthy.

 

[uniFIGHTuniFIGHT]

C'mon dude. I'm not trying to tell you how to live your life, why do you care about how I live mine? I don't get sick, I never get the flu, I rarely get colds, and I hate taking antibiotics because they make me feel worse than whatever I have. Don't get mad at me because my body can fight off naturally what others can't.

I don't get sick and I have a high pain threshold. I don't know what to tell you. Maybe it's the anger inside that keeps me healthy.

I'm fine if you want to bang H, dude. I'd prefer if you didn't share needles. I'm fine if someone wants to end it all with a fistful of oxy. I do get upset when anti-gov ppl extend that attitude to modern "miracles" of medicine. I also almost never get sick. I received all the major vaccines as a child and the scheduled boosters ever since and it's my anecdotal contention that I don't have autism. I think that's true of everyone who argues that the MMR shot causes autism. I believe that it's true that complications/deaths from communicable diseases have been reduced significantly after the advent of vaccination. I think libertarians are blind to the progresses we've enjoyed in the last two centuries. I think they think way too highly of their abilities to make it without recognizing how easy they have it compared to historical realities.

 

[NoleSoup4U]

I'm fine if you want to bang H, dude. I'd prefer if you didn't share needles. I'm fine if someone wants to end it all with a fistful of oxy. I do get upset when anti-gov ppl extend that attitude to modern "miracles" of medicine. I also almost never get sick. I received all the major vaccines as a child and the scheduled boosters ever since and it's my anecdotal contention that I don't have autism. I think that's true of everyone who argues that the MMR shot causes autism. I believe that it's true that complications/deaths from communicable diseases have been reduced significantly after the advent of vaccination. I think libertarians are blind to the progresses we've enjoyed in the last two centuries. I think they think way too highly of their abilities to make it without recognizing how easy they have it compared to historical realities.

Yeah, I don't do any drugs...other than alcohol. Not all of us are pussies, dude. Let us live our lives.

 

[uniFIGHTuniFIGHT]

Yeah, I don't do any drugs...other than alcohol. Not all of us are pussies, dude. Let us live our lives.

I wasn't accusing you of doing drugs. And you were almost certainly vaccinated. And insisting that that's good is a far cry from tyrannizing you. You need to hear this shit if you're actually suspicious of vaccines because freedom.

 

[NoleSoup4U]

I wasn't accusing you of doing drugs. And you were almost certainly vaccinated. And insisting that that's good is a far cry from tyrannizing you. You need to hear this shit if you're actually suspicious of vaccines because freedom.

This is the problem with people. "Freedom" doesn't necessarily mean that you're against vaccinations. Freedom means that you get to choose, instead of someone else choosing for you.

 

[uniFIGHTuniFIGHT]

This is the problem with people. "Freedom" doesn't necessarily mean that you're against vaccinations. Freedom means that you get to choose, instead of someone else choosing for you.

So basically what we already have? I'm not sorry for trying to verbally abuse people who think that vaccination is dangerous. They deserve it.

 

[NoleSoup4U]

LOL! Try not to sound too smug.

 

[uniFIGHTuniFIGHT]

LOL! Try not to sound too smug.

It's hard to sound to smug when you're simply defending one of the most successful practices in modern medicine. If anyone's being smug, it's the dipshits who read something on the internet about how vaccines are dangerous and who then insist that others just don't see it because they hate freedom and blindly trust the government (because they're not smart enough to blindly trust all the contrarian horseshit online).

 

[NoleSoup4U]

It's hard to sound to smug when you're simply defending one of the most successful practices in modern medicine. If anyone's being smug, it's the dipshits who read something on the internet about how vaccines are dangerous and who then insist that others just don't see it because they hate freedom and blindly trust the government (because they're not smart enough to blindly trust all the contrarian horseshit online).

I'm not talking about specifically immunizations. I'm talking about modern medicine as a whole. You know about modern medicine, right? They're the people doing the bidding of Big Pharm, and getting people hooked on heroin.

 

[HIWB]

I'm not talking about specifically immunizations. I'm talking about modern medicine as a whole. You know about modern medicine, right? They're the people doing the bidding of Big Pharm, and getting people hooked on heroin.

They're also the people that increased the life expectancy of humans from 45 to 75 over the last 100 years.

 

[JWolf74]

Another topic Prime shows he knows absolutely nothing about, yet spouts off like he's the only person who understands it.

I'm shocked, absolutely shocked.

 

[HawktimusPrime]

It's hard to sound to smug when you're simply defending one of the most successful practices in modern medicine. If anyone's being smug, it's the dipshits who read something on the internet about how vaccines are dangerous and who then insist that others just don't see it because they hate freedom and blindly trust the government (because they're not smart enough to blindly trust all the contrarian horseshit online).

There are also experts that claim that vaccines can be dangerous and that some of them are simply not needed at all in the modern world.

 

[HawktimusPrime]

So basically what we already have? I'm not sorry for trying to verbally abuse people who think that vaccination is dangerous. They deserve it.

http://www.hrsa.gov/vaccinecompensation/index.html

Explain this and don't argue with me about it. Don't make like Huey and try to argue the website.

 

[HawktimusPrime]

http://www.cnn.com/HEALTH/9809/30/child.vaccine.injury/index.html?_s=PM:HEALTH

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Nearly $1 billion has been paid to more than 1,300 people injured over the past decade in a government-backed childhood vaccination program, the Justice Department reported Wednesday.

The individual awards to families of children injured by the vaccinations often amount to more than $1 million each.

Despite the cost, government officials say that instances of serious injury are "rare," and that a program that streamlines the method for seeking damages from the government is working.

The 10-year anniversary of the program prompted the disclosure of government costs for injury claims.

Tell us again how they can't be dangerous uni.

 

[Joes Place]

http://www.cnn.com/HEALTH/9809/30/child.vaccine.injury/index.html?_s=PM:HEALTH

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Nearly $1 billion has been paid to more than 1,300 people injured over the past decade in a government-backed childhood vaccination program, the Justice Department reported Wednesday.

The individual awards to families of children injured by the vaccinations often amount to more than $1 million each.

Despite the cost, government officials say that instances of serious injury are "rare," and that a program that streamlines the method for seeking damages from the government is working.

The 10-year anniversary of the program prompted the disclosure of government costs for injury claims.

Tell us again how they can't be dangerous uni.

Really?

1300 people, out of tens of millions of children vaccinated?

Do you understand anything about risk management and acceptable risk levels? (Apparently, no)

Do you understand the percentage and rate of injury here? (Clearly, someone ELSE has to do the math for you)

Assuming the rough average US rate of 15 births per 1000 people, that's >5 million births PER YEAR. Over a decade, that's 50 million babies vaccinated. 1300/50,000,000 = 0.00025, or 0.025% risk of a serious problem or reaction. MOST medical procedures carry at LEAST 1-2% risk of problems, many are much higher. That makes vaccines 100x LESS risky than most medical procedures.

Care to guess how many hundreds of thousands would have ended up dead or injured WITHOUT vaccines? (Note that rubella, part of the MMR series, also causes birth defects like the Zika virus that everyone is getting freaked out about now). We would have FAR higher mortality and other issues, guaranteed.

The fact is clear and very simple: vaccines are VERY safe compared with most other aspects of medicine - FAR more people have been injured by other medical procedures over a decade that are considered 'acceptable' and 'safe' than from vaccines.

And all the BS you and others are spouting about 'Big Pharma' and 'CDC' conspiracies is sheer lunacy - there are hundreds of university-based entities, and other international entities which have examined the vaccines issue; ALL of them have deemed them 'safe'. It is simply beyond implausible that CDC or Big Pharm could possibly keep the types of allegations you are making under wraps without some major university/etc discovering it and publishing it. Hasn't happened.

 

[NoleSoup4U]

They're also the people that increased the life expectancy of humans from 45 to 75 over the last 100 years.

So that makes it all better?

 

[HawktimusPrime]

Really?

1300 people, out of tens of millions of children vaccinated?

Do you understand anything about risk management and acceptable risk levels? (Apparently, no)

Do you understand the percentage and rate of injury here? (Clearly, someone ELSE has to do the math for you)

Assuming the rough average US rate of 15 births per 1000 people, that's >5 million births PER YEAR. Over a decade, that's 50 million babies vaccinated. 1300/50,000,000 = 0.00025, or 0.025% risk of a serious problem or reaction. MOST medical procedures carry at LEAST 1-2% risk of problems, many are much higher. That makes vaccines 100x LESS risky than most medical procedures.

Care to guess how many hundreds of thousands would have ended up dead or injured WITHOUT vaccines? (Note that rubella, part of the MMR series, also causes birth defects like the Zika virus that everyone is getting freaked out about now). We would have FAR higher mortality and other issues, guaranteed.

The fact is clear and very simple: vaccines are VERY safe compared with most other aspects of medicine - FAR more people have been injured by other medical procedures over a decade that are considered 'acceptable' and 'safe' than from vaccines.

And all the BS you and others are spouting about 'Big Pharma' and 'CDC' conspiracies is sheer lunacy - there are hundreds of university-based entities, and other international entities which have examined the vaccines issue; ALL of them have deemed them 'safe'. It is simply beyond implausible that CDC or Big Pharm could possibly keep the types of allegations you are making under wraps without some major university/etc discovering it and publishing it. Hasn't happened.

Does the number account for those that were denied? Those that decided not to make claims? Or those that simply didn't take action? Does that not argue the point, that there could be issues with Vaccines? Are you not glad that people like myself and hundreds of thousands of others, if not more, make sure that the pharmaceutical companies don't rage out of control?

You should be.

 

[HawktimusPrime]

Really?

1300 people, out of tens of millions of children vaccinated?

Do you understand anything about risk management and acceptable risk levels? (Apparently, no)

Do you understand the percentage and rate of injury here? (Clearly, someone ELSE has to do the math for you)

Assuming the rough average US rate of 15 births per 1000 people, that's >5 million births PER YEAR. Over a decade, that's 50 million babies vaccinated. 1300/50,000,000 = 0.00025, or 0.025% risk of a serious problem or reaction. MOST medical procedures carry at LEAST 1-2% risk of problems, many are much higher. That makes vaccines 100x LESS risky than most medical procedures.

Care to guess how many hundreds of thousands would have ended up dead or injured WITHOUT vaccines? (Note that rubella, part of the MMR series, also causes birth defects like the Zika virus that everyone is getting freaked out about now). We would have FAR higher mortality and other issues, guaranteed.

The fact is clear and very simple: vaccines are VERY safe compared with most other aspects of medicine - FAR more people have been injured by other medical procedures over a decade that are considered 'acceptable' and 'safe' than from vaccines.

And all the BS you and others are spouting about 'Big Pharma' and 'CDC' conspiracies is sheer lunacy - there are hundreds of university-based entities, and other international entities which have examined the vaccines issue; ALL of them have deemed them 'safe'. It is simply beyond implausible that CDC or Big Pharm could possibly keep the types of allegations you are making under wraps without some major university/etc discovering it and publishing it. Hasn't happened.

Also, herd immunity is a myth. Vaccinations only take about 70%-85% of all vaccinated patients. Do some math and you find that the number needed, 95%, is virtually unattainable.

 

[HIWB]

So that makes it all better?

Makes what all better? Modern medicine has done orders of magnitude more good than harm. You're the one associating a negative connotation to all things "modern medicine". I'm simply reminding you that just because modern medicine gave you addictive medication, that it doesn't mean you throw the baby out with the bath water.

 

[HawktimusPrime]

Does the number account for those that were denied? Those that decided not to make claims? Or those that simply didn't take action? Does that not argue the point, that there could be issues with Vaccines? Are you not glad that people like myself and hundreds of thousands of others, if not more, make sure that the pharmaceutical companies don't rage out of control?

You should be. You also failed to explain why the National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program exists, and why it is offered via the government.

 

[tarheelbybirth]

Also, herd immunity is a myth. Vaccinations only take about 70%-85% of all vaccinated patients. Do some math and you find that the number needed, 95%, is virtually unattainable.

WTH does any of this mean? Seriously...explain this linguistic vomitus.

 

[St. Louis Hawk]

Sorry I missed most of this thread. My polio has been acting up lately and there is a smallpox wave rolling through the Midwest today.

Are we talking about the effectiveness and safety of vaccines?

 

[tarheelbybirth]

That's an excellent response from you. It's absolutely meaningless, but it's excellent because of that.

You kinda missed the point. Hardly surprising. Let me spell it out for you. What you posted about foreign substances going into your body...totally meaningless.

Think about it for a few minutes and maybe you'll finally get the sarcasm in the response. Good luck but don't hurt yourself.

 

[HawktimusPrime]

You kinda missed the point. Hardly surprising. Let me spell it out for you. What you posted about foreign substances going into your body...totally meaningless.

Think about it for a few minutes and maybe you'll finally get the sarcasm in the response. Good luck but don't hurt yourself.

thanks for the tip, your sarcasm is formidable.

 

[Joes Place]

Also, herd immunity is a myth. Vaccinations only take about 70%-85% of all vaccinated patients. Do some math and you find that the number needed, 95%, is virtually unattainable.

Go take a basic science or biology class. You are in WAY over your head in this thread.

 

[tarheelbybirth]

thanks for the tip, your sarcasm is formidable.

Unlike your intelligence?

 

[HawktimusPrime]

Sorry I missed most of this thread. My polio has been acting up lately and there is a smallpox wave rolling through the Midwest today.

Are we talking about the effectiveness and safety of vaccines?

Well the good thing is that polio has been small fries for decades now. You have cleaner areas from which to live, better food and a better understanding of hygiene. You are likely not crowded into rooms with up to a dozen sickly poor people every single day.

 

[HawktimusPrime]

Unlike your intelligence?

Excellent sarcasm again, I commend you.

 

[Joes Place]

You are likely not crowded into rooms with up to a dozen sickly poor people every single day.

....because >95% of them are vaccinated against the diseases they would have otherwise had and passed along to you...

 

[tarheelbybirth]

I'm not actually, and the even the 'best flu vaccines', cover 4 different strands at once.

LOL...actually, the "best flu vaccines" are those that effectively prevent the one or two prevalent strains that emerge in a particular year.

So...yes. You are. Again.

 

[tarheelbybirth]

Excellent sarcasm again, I commend you.

Sorry to say...that wasn't sarcasm.

 

[shank hawk]

Really?

1300 people, out of tens of millions of children vaccinated?

Do you understand anything about risk management and acceptable risk levels? (Apparently, no)

Do you understand the percentage and rate of injury here? (Clearly, someone ELSE has to do the math for you)

Assuming the rough average US rate of 15 births per 1000 people, that's >5 million births PER YEAR. Over a decade, that's 50 million babies vaccinated. 1300/50,000,000 = 0.00025, or 0.025% risk of a serious problem or reaction. MOST medical procedures carry at LEAST 1-2% risk of problems, many are much higher. That makes vaccines 100x LESS risky than most medical procedures.

Care to guess how many hundreds of thousands would have ended up dead or injured WITHOUT vaccines? (Note that rubella, part of the MMR series, also causes birth defects like the Zika virus that everyone is getting freaked out about now). We would have FAR higher mortality and other issues, guaranteed.

The fact is clear and very simple: vaccines are VERY safe compared with most other aspects of medicine - FAR more people have been injured by other medical procedures over a decade that are considered 'acceptable' and 'safe' than from vaccines.

And all the BS you and others are spouting about 'Big Pharma' and 'CDC' conspiracies is sheer lunacy - there are hundreds of university-based entities, and other international entities which have examined the vaccines issue; ALL of them have deemed them 'safe'. It is simply beyond implausible that CDC or Big Pharm could possibly keep the types of allegations you are making under wraps without some major university/etc discovering it and publishing it. Hasn't happened.

Yeah, because the Pharmaceutical companies have failed miserably in their attempts to influence American medical schools and the CDC (may as well throw the FDA in there too: they have wayyyyyyy too much integrity to be influenced by the almighty dollar).

http://www.upmc.com/media/NewsRelea...mic-medical-centers-conflict-of-interest.aspx

Public health may not be the sole driver of CDC decisions to mandate new vaccines. Four scathing federal studies, including two by Congress, one by the U.S. Senate, and one by the HHS Inspector General, paint CDC as a cesspool of corruption, mismanagement and dysfunction with alarming conflicts of interest suborning its research, regulatory and policymaking functions. CDC rules allow vaccine industry profiteers like Dr. Offit to serve on advisory boards that add new vaccines to the schedule. In a typical example, Offit in 1999 sat on the CDC’s vaccine advisory committee and voted to add the rotavirus vaccine to CDC’s schedule, paving the way for him to make a fortune on his own rotavirus vaccine. Offit and his business partners sold the royalties to his rotavirus vaccine patent to Merck in 2006 for $182 million. Offit told Newsweek, “It was like winning the lottery!”
Read more at http://www.wnd.com/2015/07/vaccines-government-big-pharmas-dirty-money/#icVDcfJzCOre5U0i.99

http://www.wnd.com/2015/07/vaccines-government-big-pharmas-dirty-money/

Modern medicine: trading chickenpox, measles and mumps for autoimmune disease, autism and cancer. Nothing to see here, move along folks.

 

[Joes Place]

Also, herd immunity is a myth. Vaccinations only take about 70%-85% of all vaccinated patients. Do some math and you find that the number needed, 95%, is virtually unattainable.

This is complete bullshit.
Herd immunity is supported by BOTH simple mathematical models (which I can understand why you don't 'get it', because you clearly don't understand it), AND by vast numbers of publications AND the fact that many common diseases have been eradicated using herd immunity.

You have absolutely zero credibility on this issue, if you cannot understand something as simple as herd immunity - demonstrating something that basic is as trivial as a computer science model; you can find probably dozens of articles relating to it in math journals, let alone biology/epidemiology.

 

[Joes Place]

Modern medicine: trading chickenpox, measles and mumps for autoimmune disease, autism and cancer. Nothing to see here, move along folks.

Wow. The American voter truly IS illiterate on basic elements of science.
I'd love to be able to pop you into a time machine and send you back a hundred years or so, where you could experience all this wonderful 'vaccine-free' existence.

 

[HIWB]

Wow. The American voter truly IS illiterate on basic elements of science.
I'd love to be able to pop you into a time machine and send you back a hundred years or so, where you could experience all this wonderful 'vaccine-free' existence.

You can thank the enlightened ones and their "research" for reminding you that those diseases never existed prior to "modern medicine".