Comparing Iowa’s rotation to the top two teams in the Big Ten…
- Thread starter RagnarLothbrok
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Bo Ryan had a doctorate in teaching the hands up pelvis thrust bump and flopping.
When you have a system in college basketball that rewards the team that fouls the most it really makes sense to take as much advantage of it as possible.
That's Tom Izzo and Bo Ryan to T.
Two of our players including Owen were recruited by Illinois. Not lessor athletes, just young.
I think you have to look at our weak links....would Krikke and PatMac being getting 28.8 and 23.1 minutes per game at any top 25 program (let alone PU & IL)? Highly unlikely. That is Fran's problem - he hit the lotto with the Brothers Murray and Luka, but then back-fills the roster with many 'lunch pail' kids who had a lot of mid-major offers/with a couple solid offers. I never watched his sons play HS call, but I gotta think they were somewhat overrated due to their Dad. It's as if we are waiting for the stars to align and have a roster like that 1987 team, but we frankly never have even come close....
If Iowa would have simply closed out two home games (vs Michigan and Maryland) that they were leading in, they wouldn’t be on the bubble, rather in the tourney. Those games were both early in season b4 Josh Dix was getting more playing time. Based on what Iowa had returning this year, they actually have done a decent season.
…not many programs have, that team had like 6 players who had at least brief time in the NBA, to several stars. & Gerry Wright who I don’t think made the NBA still won the Old CBA dunk title!
Probably. 🤔So, I guess you are saying the PU and IL, two excellent programs year in and year out, and ranked in the Top 15 in the nation, have better talent than the Hawks?
That’s the problem we have had for the past 30 years. 80% of our players have been role players that would have limited minutes on any real contender. Recruiting has been and remains a huge problem.I think most, if not all, will agree this is a major down year for the Big Ten. So, comparing Iowa’s rotation to the only two Big Ten teams in the Top 25 (Purdue and Illinois), whom do you see on Iowa’s regular or somewhat regular rotation who could start or log 10+ minutes for either Purdue or Illinois?
I’ll go first.
Start:
Log 10+ minutes:
Freeman: Possibly
Krikke: No
PMac: Lol
Dix: Slim chance
Perkins: Slim chance
Payton: Possibly
Dembele: No
Bowen: No
Brauns: No
Harding: No
Pryce: No
Did I miss anyone?
That means I got 4/11 who have been in Iowa’s rotation with just a chance to log 10+ minutes. A chance.
7/11 guys wouldn’t have a prayer.
Yikes.
Back to OP, talent level down across Big Ten, will be surprised if more than 2 teams make it past first weekend in NCAA tournament. Oklahoma is a 9 seed in Big 12 tournament and they just ran over Iowa with their athleticism in nonconference game. The question for me is why more top level talent not coming to Big Ten, not just an Iowa problem? In NBA mock draft only 2 Big Ten players projected to be selected in first round, Shannon and Edney.
BirdistheWord
HB Legend
You have to compare full rotation of each team. I don’t think it’s close.
Now that the BigTen awards are out, I think the OP has some merit. I know a lot of posters go on and on about Sandfort and Dix (who I do both like), but outside observers are telling us that only one of those guys rank in the 10-15 range of big ten players. Besides Owen, I’d venture to guess that most Iowa fans consider those two the best we have. (Saucy T being a wild card) I am not trying to dog any of our players (well, maybe Patty Mac), but just pointing out that we have a ways to go if we want to seriously envision winning the conference regular season crown and/or making it to the sweet 16 anytime soon…😎
How many players does any B1G team have on the all league team? Not really a very good metric is it?
Well no, that's not what the results say.
Perkins was 2nd team Sandfort 3rd.
So the results from outside observers are telling us that two of those guys rank in the 6-15 range of players.
Dix was honorable mention but his numbers from the first half of the year are not good and his numbers from the second half are very good.
I wasn’t referring to Perkins and I purposely did not reference Honorable Mention for my point.
you seem to have an unhealthy affinity for Dix, if you think he will sniff any minutes in the NBA you are more delusional than I originally thought…
I know what I'm talking about, you can accept it or not, it won't change anything.
Don't get upset because you had the basic facts of the situation incorrect.
BirdistheWord
HB Legend
Josh’s role really evolved throughout the season. You can effectively split in half:
First 15 games; 5ppg
Last 16 games: 13ppg
Let an outsider try this for Illinois. This assumes only one of them on the team at a time.I think most, if not all, will agree this is a major down year for the Big Ten. So, comparing Iowa’s rotation to the only two Big Ten teams in the Top 25 (Purdue and Illinois), whom do you see on Iowa’s regular or somewhat regular rotation who could start or log 10+ minutes for either Purdue or Illinois?
I’ll go first.
Start:
Log 10+ minutes:
Freeman: Possibly
Krikke: No
PMac: Lol
Dix: Slim chance
Perkins: Slim chance
Payton: Possibly
Dembele: No
Bowen: No
Brauns: No
Harding: No
Pryce: No
Did I miss anyone?
That means I got 4/11 who have been in Iowa’s rotation with just a chance to log 10+ minutes. A chance.
7/11 guys wouldn’t have a prayer.
Yikes.
1. Love Freeman. He wouldn’t have gotten the same opportunity at Illinois as he did at Iowa. Illinois has a similar talent in Amani Hansberry who didn’t play much due to injury and veteran talent ahead of him. Freeman would definitely play next year. Good talent.
2. Krikke-wouldn’t have recruited him out of the portal. If he was on the team, he would get spot minutes.
3. McCaffery-no
4. Dix- absolutely. Would play rotation minutes and could start. Rodgers isn’t much of a scorer but he helps Illinois play the style they do, but there is always room for a shooter. My favorite Iowa player.
5. Perkins- would start or be sixth man
6. Sandfort- would start. As with Dix and Perkins, the one spot each could start at would be Rodgers. The other four spots (Shannon, Domask, Hawkins and Guerrier) would be the same.
7. Harding- spot minutes like Moretti and Gibbs-Lawhorn. Very talented passer. Illinois likes big guards so his small size would hurt.
The rest- no
Iowa has some outstanding offensive talent. The issue is defense for most of them.
BirdistheWord
HB Legend
Good post. Very objective. It shows we are not miles from the good teams but still lack star power and depth. Dembele has potential and am hopeful his decision making and consistency will improve.
As you pointed out guys like Krikke and PMac would barely have played at IL. 🤦🏻♂️
We had no one like Shannon, which to me was the glaring contrast, in addition to defense.
Sounds like Rodgers is your weak link, I am just not seeing how Dix, Sandfort, or Perkins could all potentially be starting for the Illini. Whose minutes would they take? I could see Dix maybe starting, but that is about it IMHO.
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I agree with most of your post. Dix would probably be in the rotation, but I don’t know about starting. Not a knock on Dix.
What I highlighted from your post is why I have doubts about a lot of those guys getting meaningful minutes.
He's saying individually each one would have been the 5th starter which is accurate.
Not that all 3 would start together.
Yeah, I get that - I don’t see that happening though. So he is essentially saying that we have 3 individual guards that would (could) start on a Top 10-12 program like Illinois. Having said that, then as a collective whole shouldn't all 3 playing together for Iowa translate to something better than a second round NIT exit?
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This post did not age well (jk), but full disclosure- I thought for sure Purdue was going to choke (again). Sounds like Painter really addressed 3 point shooting in the off-season. Truth be told, the Illini have had a pretty bracket friendly path so far as well…
Having 3 guys who are capable of being a 5th starter is not some impressive feat, it means Rodgers isn't that good. He hasn't even attempted a 3pt shot on the year.
That said it shouldn't be surprising that two guys who were all big ten would start on most teams.
Not every team simply achieves to the cumulative level of its individual pieces.
Iowa didn't defend well and didn't have a pg on the floor most of the time because Fran wanted to play his son and his new transfer. Iowa had to play flawless offense to overcome the defensive deficiencies of those two.
They also didn't have enough depth on the frontline.
Harding is not the type of guard Underwood actually offers. Talking to an instate guy is far from an offer. Dix on otherhand, I'm sure Underwood would take DIx as a transfer.
The closest analog to Harding is Braden Smith., but Harding hasn't show the shooting abiilty that Braden has shown. If Iowa had a 7'4 300lb giant with touch around basket and pulling down 13 rebounds a game, I think Harding would also flourish.
Iowa was the first high-major offer for Harding. He also had offers from Appalachian State, Bradley, Cal Poly, Colorado State, Drake, Eastern Illinois, Illinois State, Illinois-Chicago, IPFW, Loyola (Chi.), Radford, Rice, Saint Louis, Southeast Missouri State, Southern Illinois and Western Illinois.
I think Sandfort, Dix, Freeman, Perkins would all get substantial interest if they were in Portal. I think Perkins is going to get his $200K or more.
Dix plays defense and highly efficient scorer...he's a great 3rd or 4th option on a really good team. I think Dix is better than Domask, Goode, Rogers on illinois. Freeman is better than Dainja but not as big/strong. Sandfort would be 3pt specialist on Illinois.
Iowa's problem was all its guy except perkins and Freeman were below the rim types and meant to be 2nd,3rd, or 4th scoring options on a good team. Sandfort is mostly a 3pt specialist, you can't expect him to go get his own shots and be top dog like he was for Iowa.
IOwa usually had 3, 4 or even 5 slow twitch, below the rim guys playing at same time. You don't see that in NCAA tourney.. Iowa didn't have elite PG play either.
You also need at least two quality Bigs in case you meet up with a giant.. Uconn has a 7'2 guy....Purdue had 7'4 guy, even Indiana had 7'0 guy in Kelel ware. Freeman struggled vs that type of size.
Fran's teams are always flawed, lackiing depth and versatility, and that is why Fran teams never really do much in NCAA tourney.
Maybe thats why Fran is recruiting a 6'11' guy. We will need more depth down low. I really believe Iowa will make some deep runs in 2 years and 3 years.
In fairness to Iowa, not many teams have a dynamic player like Shannon.
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