Complaints about recruiting, talent, and athleticism

[perryhawk]

seem to have diminished significantly. The only reason I bring this up is because people often go off the rails blaming the lack of talent we have-as soon as things go south....and that just doesn't hold water.

I am not saying this to bash anyone...I have to admit that I had my concerns after the DePaul game this year.....I think as fans we should just learn from this and know that the margin for winning vs losing is often much less than it appears.

 

[perryhawk]

Thinking about how lowly rated our basketball recruits are for 2020...and most of us, me included, were down about most of them with the exception of Josh Ogundele......and at this point he has probably been the least impressive. Ulis and Perkins have been outstanding against good competition and now the Murray twins just had an astounding game against VERY good competition....the future is bright.

 

[EvilMonkeyInTheCloset]

seem to have diminished significantly. The only reason I bring this up is because people often go off the rails blaming the lack of talent we have-as soon as things go south....and that just doesn't hold water.

I am not saying this to bash anyone...I have to admit that I had my concerns after the DePaul game this year.....I think as fans we should just learn from this and know that the margin for winning vs losing is often much less than it appears.

Yes I still occasionally laugh at the fans who said two years ago that when these guys were freshmen and sophomores, we were devoid of Big Ten talent.

Impatient turds, the lot of them.

 

[HawkSTL]

seem to have diminished significantly. The only reason I bring this up is because people often go off the rails blaming the lack of talent we have-as soon as things go south....and that just doesn't hold water.

I am not saying this to bash anyone...I have to admit that I had my concerns after the DePaul game this year.....I think as fans we should just learn from this and know that the margin for winning vs losing is often much less than it appears.

This is where we all need to remember that Connor McCafrey is our starting power forward. And he’s GOOD at it. And that makes no sense. Tip of the cap to Fran. His odd collection of family members, family friends, and kids with no power 5 offers play entertaining, good basketball.

 

[EvilMonkeyInTheCloset]

This is where we all need to remember that Connor McCafrey is our starting power forward. And he’s GOOD at it. And that makes no sense. Tip of the cap to Fran. His odd collection of family members, family friends, and kids with no power 5 offers play entertaining, good basketball.

Is he officially listed as a PF, though?

I mean I get if he's a 4 in their 4-out offense, but I don't think his offensive role is significantly different.

You can have an offense that's essentially geared towards 4 guards(or a small forward in there), and one post.

Of course, I'm also spitballing because I really don't look that closely at Iowa's lineup and positioning. I just watch the games.

 

[perryhawk]

Is he officially listed as a PF, though?

I mean I get if he's a 4 in their 4-out offense, but I don't think his offensive role is significantly different.

You can have an offense that's essentially geared towards 4 guards(or a small forward in there), and one post.

Of course, I'm also spitballing because I really don't look that closely at Iowa's lineup and positioning. I just watch the games.

In my non basketball expertise opinion....I think this is a 4 guard 1 post line up. Connor just so happens to have enough strength and size to play defense against most 4s and and play a role offensively where he can facilitate for the big offensive weapons that we have.

 

[HawkLogic]

Garza's own father says Luka isn't athletic. What Luka does have is basketball skills and effort B-ball IQ at All-America level. The complaints on Fran and him not getting athletic recruits were based on his body of work. Getting JoeT on the team was a big change/step forward for Fran. Getting a grad transfer for 1st time was also a big step for Fran. Fredrick turning out to be a stud shooter and having good athleticism was a nice change from Fran's previous shooting guard recruits.

This team is performing great and it is year 10 for Fran, so he's certainly been given a long enough leash to finally get a team that can compete for a B1G title and not fade/plummet at end of B1G season. Fran is in the running for B1G coach of the year in Year10 and deservedly so. Rutgers coach took over a tire fire and is in his 4th year and he also has a pretty good team. Lets see Iowa bring home a B1G regular season title for first time in 40 years, or at least compete for the title and not lose 4 or 5 of last 6 games. This year's team looks to be built better to compete for a full season than some of Fran's previous teams.



.

 

[cubsMDdmb]

Kenyon Murray seemed to know what he was talking about when he came on here a few months ago after his sons committed. Fran has something good going.

 

[H4wkfan4life]

Garza's own father says Luka isn't athletic. What Luka does have is basketball skills and effort B-ball IQ at All-America level. The complaints on Fran and him not getting athletic recruits were based on his body of work. Getting JoeT on the team was a big change/step forward for Fran. Getting a grad transfer for 1st time was also a big step for Fran. Fredrick turning out to be a stud shooter and having good athleticism was a nice change from Fran's previous shooting guard recruits.

This team is performing great and it is year 10 for Fran, so he's certainly been given a long enough leash to finally get a team that can compete for a B1G title and not fade/plummet at end of B1G season. Fran is in the running for B1G coach of the year in Year10 and deservedly so. Rutgers coach took over a tire fire and is in his 4th year and he also has a pretty good team. Lets see Iowa bring home a B1G regular season title for first time in 40 years, or at least compete for the title and not lose 4 or 5 of last 6 games. This year's team looks to be built better to compete for a full season than some of Fran's previous teams.



.

I seem to see the name "peter jok" quite often when they are showing all these different "lists" garza is on

 

[perryhawk]

Garza's own father says Luka isn't athletic. What Luka does have is basketball skills and effort B-ball IQ at All-America level. The complaints on Fran and him not getting athletic recruits were based on his body of work. Getting JoeT on the team was a big change/step forward for Fran. Getting a grad transfer for 1st time was also a big step for Fran. Fredrick turning out to be a stud shooter and having good athleticism was a nice change from Fran's previous shooting guard recruits.

This team is performing great and it is year 10 for Fran, so he's certainly been given a long enough leash to finally get a team that can compete for a B1G title and not fade/plummet at end of B1G season. Fran is in the running for B1G coach of the year in Year10 and deservedly so. Rutgers coach took over a tire fire and is in his 4th year and he also has a pretty good team. Lets see Iowa bring home a B1G regular season title for first time in 40 years, or at least compete for the title and not lose 4 or 5 of last 6 games. This year's team looks to be built better to compete for a full season than some of Fran's previous teams
.

I think when making a balanced assessment of Fran's recruiting and the coaching job he has done this year it is important to include the fact that he lost a very athletic PF who was only a junior...then he lost a fairly athletic 2G unexpectedly....and then the starting PG that is the most prolific 3 point shooter in school history, then he lost his projected starting PF who was reportedly playing really well this summer....his highly rated son at the wing isn't able to play.......and the bottom line is he has done a great job of coaching this year and a very good job of recruiting that has been decimated by the factors just mentioned......and next years incoming guards look to be very athletic...all that said, if this roster gets worn down towards the end of the year and doesn't finish as strong as we all hope they will....does that mean he didn't do a good job?

 

[24 so far]

This team for the most part knows how to finish games, even without The Dagger (JBo). We've pissed so many games away in the past in the last couple of minutes it's great to have a team with some ice in their veins for a change.

 

[BlackNGoldBleeder]

Thinking about how lowly rated our basketball recruits are for 2020...and most of us, me included, were down about most of them with the exception of Josh Ogundele......and at this point he has probably been the least impressive. Ulis and Perkins have been outstanding against good competition and now the Murray twins just had an astounding game against VERY good competition....the future is bright.

There's still a lot of basketball to be played, and Iowa has a history of slumping in February under Fran. With that said, Fran has done an amazing job of utilizing the talent he has this year.

Recruiting rankings don't mean much to me, as I remember Glen Worley and Jared Reiner having high rankings while players like Aaron White and Peter Jok were largely passed on.

I do think Iowa's 2020 class has a lot of raw talent that has been largely overlooked. It will be fun to see how these kids grow and develop.

 

[Zildjian6868]

There is a lot of talk about Steve p. being the big ten coach of the year (and rightly so). However, Fran has lost 6 players in the past 10 months to nba, transfer, or injury. What he has been able to do with this team is nothing lesson than incredible.

 

[grugreen]

This is a good team, but the injuries listed above by Perryhawk is an asset to Fran as he would be trying to play 10-12 guys most games. Every year when he plays that many guys a lot of games they would go several minutes not scoring and that is in part of the lineup he has on court.At several points in games past you had to scratch your head and ask who is gonna score with this lineup on the court. Even last night he had CMac, Pemsl, and Ev in together. It wasn't a lineup that lasted very long but Fran comes up with some lineups at times that are head scratchers.
This group is fun to watch. They may lay an egg like Nebby game but they can play with anybody in the league.

 

[Hawk_4shur]

I've said it many times here - Iowa is going to have a very difficult time recruiting stars. On this team, for example, they recruited one - Joe W. And, he happened to live 30 minutes from IC.

Instead, Iowa has to develop stars- or recruit players that have the mindset to become one (i.e. Garza). I also think CJ has true star potential. Developing stars takes a lot of patience.

Where would this team be without Kriener? A senior that has worked hard on his game and is now dam valuable.

This is how it has to work at Iowa.

 

[bunsen82]

Thinking about how lowly rated our basketball recruits are for 2020...and most of us, me included, were down about most of them with the exception of Josh Ogundele......and at this point he has probably been the least impressive. Ulis and Perkins have been outstanding against good competition and now the Murray twins just had an astounding game against VERY good competition....the future is bright.

I was one of the few, stating the class would be anywhere from solid to good. The biggest issue that most had was the 0 star murray twins. I said all along that these two will greatly outperform peoples expectations, basically most fans are expecting nothing from them as they are 0 stars. Their current stats are showing their offensive potential in basically a JUCO environment. They have grown not only in height, but in man strength and I anticipate this to continue to occur in the next year or two. My gut feel is Keegan will be a better college player than Xavier Foster. The player I was must skeptical was of was Perkins and he is easily the best recruit we have on paper as of this minute. From what I see you have a 4 star in Perkins, 2 high 3 stars in Ulis and Keegan, and then two solid 3 star in Kris Murray and Ogundele. With all having very high ceilings. Even Ogundele is starting to put up very good numbers. If people merely looked at paper suddenly they are very happy with the recruiting class.

 

[Phenomenally Frantastic]

I've said it many times here - Iowa is going to have a very difficult time recruiting stars. On this team, for example, they recruited one - Joe W. And, he happened to live 30 minutes from IC.

Instead, Iowa has to develop stars- or recruit players that have the mindset to become one (i.e. Garza). I also think CJ has true star potential. Developing stars takes a lot of patience.

Where would this team be without Kriener? A senior that has worked hard on his game and is now dam valuable.

This is how it has to work at Iowa.

Lute Olsen, George Raveling, and Hayden Fry say “Hi.”

Oh and so do Ronnie Lester, Roy Marble, and Ronnie Harmon.

 

[icwesthawk]

Gotta give Fran credit for seeing guys potential and getting them into a system where they can thrive. He's been very honest and agreed that he has had some "clunkers". The criticism about our players not being athletic enough and too white is pure comedy.

 

[retrodent]

I've said it many times here - Iowa is going to have a very difficult time recruiting stars. On this team, for example, they recruited one - Joe W. And, he happened to live 30 minutes from IC.

Instead, Iowa has to develop stars- or recruit players that have the mindset to become one (i.e. Garza). I also think CJ has true star potential. Developing stars takes a lot of patience.

Where would this team be without Kriener? A senior that has worked hard on his game and is now dam valuable.

This is how it has to work at Iowa.

And remember just 1-2 years ago they were saying Kriener needed to transfer

 

[SSG T]

In my non basketball expertise opinion....I think this is a 4 guard 1 post line up. Connor just so happens to have enough strength and size to play defense against most 4s and and play a role offensively where he can facilitate for the big offensive weapons that we have.

Yeah, they're either starting 4 guards 1 post or 3 guards, 1 forward (JW), 1 post. I'd lean to the 4/1 myself, it's just a matter of whether people think of JW as a guard or forward.

Either way, they aren't using traditional positions and having plenty of success.

 

[HawkRugged17]

 

[Raptorpeeps]

Fran has done a great job but the reality is if Garza is 10% less of the player than he has developed to be, we're all singing a different tune. The OP's post is well taken. The margin is thin.

Let's hope everyone stays healthy.

 

[owenhawk]

I've said it many times here - Iowa is going to have a very difficult time recruiting stars. On this team, for example, they recruited one - Joe W. And, he happened to live 30 minutes from IC.

Instead, Iowa has to develop stars- or recruit players that have the mindset to become one (i.e. Garza). I also think CJ has true star potential. Developing stars takes a lot of patience.

Where would this team be without Kriener? A senior that has worked hard on his game and is now dam valuable.

This is how it has to work at Iowa.

Correct and Fran realizes this. Which makes it ridiculous when some if the fans complain about Fran and his horrible recruiting. Like in football, this is a developmental program - both Ferentz and Fran are trying to get guys that fit their culture and that are reachable and have the potential to grow into really good players after a few years in the program. It doesn’t always pan out but it is reality if you aren’t going to cheat or take bad character kids (aka the easy way out) like a lot of programs will do.

 

[TritonHawkeye]

Fran has done a great job but the reality is if Garza is 10% less of the player than he has developed to be, we're all singing a different tune. The OP's post is well taken. The margin is thin.

Let's hope everyone stays healthy.

I get your point but the same can be said for CJ, Connor, JW, RK and eve JT or Evelyn. Each has done things that have been difference makers in various games. Do we win last night without JT? Last week withou CJ?

Luca is for sure the one constant but someone else has risen in almost every game. Fran deserves credit.

 

[Raptorpeeps]

I get your point but the same can be said for CJ, Connor, JW, RK and eve JT or Evelyn. Each has done things that have been difference makers in various games. Do we win last night without JT? Last week withou CJ?

Luca is for sure the one constant but someone else has risen in almost every game. Fran deserves credit.

Garza had been the one constant in every game. There is no replacing him. The Iron Giant brings it every game.

 

[kceasthawk]

Is he officially listed as a PF, though?

I mean I get if he's a 4 in their 4-out offense, but I don't think his offensive role is significantly different.

You can have an offense that's essentially geared towards 4 guards(or a small forward in there), and one post.

Of course, I'm also spitballing because I really don't look that closely at Iowa's lineup and positioning. I just watch the games.

I think he's officially listed as swiss army knife, or bear cage2....

 

[Robster Raws]

We can still appreciate the recruiting gems and development success stories (Garza, Kriener , CJF, Joe T, Jok, White, etc) and also recognize a good amount of ‘misses’ too, can’t we?

Ellingson, Fleming, Hutton, Williams, Dailey, Uhl, etc.

Fact is, the additions of CJ and Joe T are instant upgrades to Moss and Dailey off last year’s squad...and it shows. And Garza, Joe W, and Kriener all upped their game.

Fans had reason to be skeptical of some recruits based on prior history. I’m just glad we were wrong.

 

[Hawk_4shur]

Lute Olsen, George Raveling, and Hayden Fry say “Hi.”

Oh and so do Ronnie Lester, Roy Marble, and Ronnie Harmon.

I said it was difficult, not impossible.

And, you named 3 in 50 years. Of course there were more. But, neither Lute nor Hayden put together "star" filled classes. They would pluck one or two, then fill in with guys that they hoped would become stars.

 

[Herky T Hawk]

I said it was difficult, not impossible.

And, you named 3 in 50 years. Of course there were more. But, neither Lute nor Hayden put together "star" filled classes. They would pluck one or two, then fill in with guys that they hoped would become stars.

Also, Roy was a high school senior recruit 35 years ago. A lot has changed in the NCAA landscape since then and a lot has changed with the perception of our program.

We are always going to be behind the 8 ball in recruiting because of the lack of population in a state with 4 Div 1 programs. This year there is only one high-major caliber senior recruit in the state and he picked ISU. Add to that that we aren't willing to cheat to get recruits here. Something that the top schools, even MSU in the Big Ten, have been implicated as doing. That double-whammy means we have to find the underrated guys that can develop and hope that a top flight recruit doesn't need to be paid off to come here.

So far Fran has gotten several top 100 players in his tenure but hasn't gotten a McDonalds All American to commit. I'm guessing the lack of money to grease the wheels is contributing to that. If Fran can bring in at least one 4 star per year and avoid lopsided classes, he can keep this going. He has suffered from graduating large classes and being forced to rebuild for several years while the youngsters learn a couple times. I think we're getting closer to having more balanced classes.

Next year barring early departures we should have
3 Seniors
3 Juniors
2 Sophomores
6 Freshman (Hopefully 2 or 3 redshirt)

If he can keep it to only losing ~3 players a year to graduation and/or transfer he will be in a much better position. It should allow us to redshirt one or two freshmen each season that need another year of prep which is great for a developmental program.

 

[Rudolph]

Correct and Fran realizes this. Which makes it ridiculous when some if the fans complain about Fran and his horrible recruiting. Like in football, this is a developmental program - both Ferentz and Fran are trying to get guys that fit their culture and that are reachable and have the potential to grow into really good players after a few years in the program. It doesn’t always pan out but it is reality if you aren’t going to cheat or take bad character kids (aka the easy way out) like a lot of programs will do.

I want to build on this. I agree, mostly, with what you're saying here. I want to add, though, that the fullest expression of program culture is player-driven, rooted in the baseline culture developed by the coaching staff. Take Iowa Football under Kirk's leadership. He was building a certain culture of inch-by-inch, rep-by-rep, day-by-day devotion-to-details development. No cutting of corners. All that good stuff. But the culture of the program really changed, or got a big bump forward, arguably, with Robert Gallery and Bob Sanders (and others in that era). Suddenly Iowa Football wasn't just fundamentally sound, relatively mistake-free, it was tough.

And I see that with Fran and this team. This is the Gallery/Sanders group. Garza is Gallery, and I like to think Toussaint is Sanders. There are probably comparisons for Frederick and Connor and the rest, too.

Throughout Fran's tenure I've always felt like he recruited high-quality individuals but none of them seemed to have an all-the-time edge to them, that "it" factor that pushes a program to a new level.

That is what makes this team so exciting and hopeful for me. They’re providing a culture bump that looks poised to have a lasting effect.

 

[IamHawkeye]

And remember just 1-2 years ago they were saying Kriener needed to transfer

And remember just 1-2 years ago they were saying Kriener needed to transfer

So no one seems remember the discussions about JBo either?

 

[flaiawis]

Yes I still occasionally laugh at the fans who said two years ago that when these guys were freshmen and sophomores, we were devoid of Big Ten talent.

Impatient turds, the lot of them.

Yes I still occasionally laugh at the fans who said two years ago that when these guys were freshmen and sophomores, we were devoid of Big Ten talent.

Impatient turds, the lot of them.

Cue Roy L Fuchs in:
3
2
1
In all seriousness. Amazing how certain individuals disappear when the negative mantra is not available.
Who am I kidding. They are laying in wait for the right time to pounce. Sad.
I can admit that after the DePaul game, my view was pretty dim. Even then though, there was no way for that talent to play so poorly for the entire season. Even the glass half full crowd would never have predicted to this team being where it is today.
If Fran can make even slight improvements on the defensive end, they will be formidable for whoever they play. Make a run formidable.

 

[owenhawk]

I want to build on this. I agree, mostly, with what you're saying here. I want to add, though, that the fullest expression of program culture is player-driven, rooted in the baseline culture developed by the coaching staff. Take Iowa Football under Kirk's leadership. He was building a certain culture of inch-by-inch, rep-by-rep, day-by-day devotion-to-details development. No cutting of corners. All that good stuff. But the culture of the program really changed, or got a big bump forward, arguably, with Robert Gallery and Bob Sanders (and others in that era). Suddenly Iowa Football wasn't just fundamentally sound, relatively mistake-free, it was tough.

And I see that with Fran and this team. This is the Gallery/Sanders group. Garza is Gallery, and I like to think Toussaint is Sanders. There are probably comparisons for Frederick and Connor and the rest, too.

Throughout Fran's tenure I've always felt like he recruited high-quality individuals but none of them seemed to have an all-the-time edge to them, that "it" factor that pushes a program to a new level.

That is what makes this team so exciting and hopeful for me. They’re providing a culture bump that looks poised to have a lasting effect.

well said and I like where you are going with the correlation.

 

[DewHawk]

There have definitely been some lows and highs with FM and at one time I was ready for him to leave. I have been watching Iowa basketball since the late 50's, so I have seen some pretty good Iowa teams. I have to say right now I feel the program is on an upswing and it has been quite awhile since I have felt that way. JMO

 

[EvilMonkeyInTheCloset]

Cue Roy L Fuchs in:
3
2
1
In all seriousness. Amazing how certain individuals disappear when the negative mantra is not available.
Who am I kidding. They are laying in wait for the right time to pounce. Sad.
I can admit that after the DePaul game, my view was pretty dim. Even then though, there was no way for that talent to play so poorly for the entire season. Even the glass half full crowd would never have predicted to this team being where it is today.
If Fran can make even slight improvements on the defensive end, they will be formidable for whoever they play. Make a run formidable.

I wasn't all that worried given how early the game was, and the fact that I was watching all these other teams take head scratching Ls as well. EVERYONE was taking Ls to begin the season. Before Gonzaga was able to settle into the #1 spot thanks to playing in such a weak conference, how many different #1 teams have we had?

I also heard a reassuring quote following another game shortly after our loss to DePaul. I think it was either a Cincinnati or West Virginia game, or it might've been the ESPN analyst just quoting Bob Huggins about a past team.

But anyway, they had a really good team that year, but they got straight up drilled by an average nobody, and everyone was worried and talking about how the season could already be lost, but he said that was the best thing that could've happened to his team, because it made them refocus and they were better for it, and they ended up having a very solid season.

I heard that and thought that was exactly what we were gonna see with Iowa. In fact, this was obviously before the Texas Tech game, which I was never really concerned about unlike most of our fans because of the DePaul loss.

I was certainly surprised we played as well as we did, but I didn't think we'd go in there with no chance to win, either. I wasn't dissuaded at all that we could be competitive with and beat Texas Tech at that stage of the season.