Confederate flag supporters, aka Republicans, indicted

[strummingram]

Apparently it's a big deal to you.

It's a monumentally big deal for him! They absolutely cling to seeing people as black or white. And, then whenever possible, exploiting that aspect as far as possible in order to judge anyone that is trying to STOP seeing them as black or white. And, that flag REALLY gets their dander up. Racism is cool with them. They revel in racism. They count on it. But, that flag is not cool. The irony, of course, is they need that flag to continue on this crusade to stop racism that they love to perpetuate by identifying people as black or white.

The people in the video clip are basically the result of the perpetuation of people seeing each other as different races, not as fellow human beings. The people dragging that flag, and the other flags, around were trying to incite the other people. The other people responded as expected. Until one of them stops, they will both keep doing it.

 

[tarheelbybirth]

You gave me a perfect opportunity to show what a fraud the whole "offensive word" crap really is. I was compelled, absolutely. The "protest" was anything but! You helped to prove the point that they are JUST WORDS. And, we, as listeners/readers, do have a responsibility to pay attention to intent. Thank you! I'll give you that kiss after all! Try and carry this attitude over into all aspects of debate, conversation and awareness of dialogue. Or, keep pretending you're the most superior, I don't care.

"Until one of them stops, they will both keep doing it."

See? Hypocrisy. Thanks for proving my point.

 

[strummingram]

"Until one of them stops, they will both keep doing it."

See? Hypocrisy. Thanks for proving my point.

I didn't get your point. You left "idiot" out of your post, so I wasn't sure you had a point.

 

[strummingram]

Imagine this scenario. It will never happen, but just imagine that it is, or did, or would.

The people trying to show hatred by dragging giant flags in their trucks were also trying to incite a violent reaction from the other people. They purposely showed-up and drug the flags in an attempt to convey that they disliked them and that they were inferior, or whatever. Now, the group sees this and they have 2 choices. We can react as they want, or we can go a different route. Imagine if they'd said "Come join us at our gathering. Stop driving and come join us. We brought extra for you, there's plenty to eat! We'd love to have you join us!" THAT is a response the flag-draggers are not expecting. If that happened every time they did that, they'd probably stop. They might try something else, but if they couldn't get the other group to get upset and react harshly IN RETURN, then sooner or later they might just relent and stop altogether.

Same with me, when I am riding my bike or rollerblading. I invariably have people who think they're cool ride by and shout obscenities, or try to scare me, or whatever. You know what I do? I blow them a kiss! Or, I shout "I love you, too!" back at them! That basically makes their attempt to hurt me, scare me, upset me, a failed attempt. If they keep doing it to me and never get the response they want, they'll eventually stop. It's not producing the desired outcome.

I'm not condoning the behavior of the aggressor. I'm simply showing that by responding with aggression, you're just playing in to the circle of aggression.

 

[jscott78]

I'm surprised this happened. Didn't they remove the Rebel Flag from the General Lee car? I mean, look at all the racial hatred THAT CAR brought into the world. Those Dukes were some of the most racist people ever.

There's a well known poster here, of cyclone allegiance, who used that show to illustrate why it is OK to call black males "boy." Ripping good message board stuff.

 

[tarheelbybirth]

I didn't get your point.

Hardly surprising. Most hypocrites refuse to acknowledge it.

 

[KitingHigh]

Imagine this scenario. It will never happen, but just imagine that it is, or did, or would.

The people trying to show hatred by dragging giant flags in their trucks were also trying to incite a violent reaction from the other people. They purposely showed-up and drug the flags in an attempt to convey that they disliked them and that they were inferior, or whatever. Now, the group sees this and they have 2 choices. We can react as they want, or we can go a different route. Imagine if they'd said "Come join us at our gathering. Stop driving and come join us. We brought extra for you, there's plenty to eat! We'd love to have you join us!" THAT is a response the flag-draggers are not expecting. If that happened every time they did that, they'd probably stop. They might try something else, but if they couldn't get the other group to get upset and react harshly IN RETURN, then sooner or later they might just relent and stop altogether.

Same with me, when I am riding my bike or rollerblading. I invariably have people who think they're cool ride by and shout obscenities, or try to scare me, or whatever. You know what I do? I blow them a kiss! Or, I shout "I love you, too!" back at them! That basically makes their attempt to hurt me, scare me, upset me, a failed attempt. If they keep doing it to me and never get the response they want, they'll eventually stop. It's not producing the desired outcome.

I'm not condoning the behavior of the aggressor. I'm simply showing that by responding with aggression, you're just playing in to the circle of aggression.

You can't just make the assumption that those displaying the flag were doing so to incite a reaction or convey any message of dislike. Doing so is no different than making assumptions about the other party. We weren't there and all we have to go on is their conflicting stories. That could have been the case, but it also could have been a case of the partygoers inciting an altercation unprovoked. Who knows?

I agree about someone needing to end the circle, but in this case we don't know enough to say who started it or even what really happened.

 

[tarheelbybirth]

Imagine this scenario. It will never happen, but just imagine that it is, or did, or would.

The people trying to show hatred by dragging giant flags in their trucks were also trying to incite a violent reaction from the other people. They purposely showed-up and drug the flags in an attempt to convey that they disliked them and that they were inferior, or whatever. Now, the group sees this and they have 2 choices. We can react as they want, or we can go a different route. Imagine if they'd said "Come join us at our gathering. Stop driving and come join us. We brought extra for you, there's plenty to eat! We'd love to have you join us!" THAT is a response the flag-draggers are not expecting. If that happened every time they did that, they'd probably stop. They might try something else, but if they couldn't get the other group to get upset and react harshly IN RETURN, then sooner or later they might just relent and stop altogether.

Same with me, when I am riding my bike or rollerblading. I invariably have people who think they're cool ride by and shout obscenities, or try to scare me, or whatever. You know what I do? I blow them a kiss! Or, I shout "I love you, too!" back at them! That basically makes their attempt to hurt me, scare me, upset me, a failed attempt. If they keep doing it to me and never get the response they want, they'll eventually stop. It's not producing the desired outcome.

I'm not condoning the behavior of the aggressor. I'm simply showing that by responding with aggression, you're just playing in to the circle of aggression.

Yet, you seem to be putting the onus on the aggrieved party...always. How about the knuckle-draggers DON'T try to incite a reaction? Why is that never your first option? You continually seem to blame those who responded for the escalation but never call out those who initiated it. No...you don't "condone it" but you have yet to condemn it the way you call out the people who responded.

Why is that?

 

[tarheelbybirth]

Same with me, when I am riding my bike or rollerblading. I invariably have people who think they're cool ride by and shout obscenities, or try to scare me, or whatever. You know what I do? I blow them a kiss! Or, I shout "I love you, too!" back at them! That basically makes their attempt to hurt me, scare me, upset me, a failed attempt. If they keep doing it to me and never get the response they want, they'll eventually stop. It's not producing the desired outcome.

Or you could just piss them off and they come back and drive by even closer or they throw something at you. If you truly believed your philosophy, you wouldn't acknowledge them at all...which is, by far, the safest ploy. If you want to avoid an escalation, of course.

 

[strummingram]

Yet, you seem to be putting the onus on the aggrieved party...always. How about the knuckle-draggers DON'T try to incite a reaction? Why is that never your first option? You continually seem to blame those who responded for the escalation but never call out those who initiated it. No...you don't "condone it" but you have yet to condemn it the way you call out the people who responded.

Why is that?

Simple... I cannot control THEM! I am looking at from the "victim's" perspective, however. I am trying to offer an alternative to the one who is on the receiving end.

If I said "Hey, Everyone! Don't try to incite them since they're not bothering you" what good would that do on here, in this discussion? We all know that is the more civil way to conduct yourself. It's understood. None of us (I don't think) would be the flag-draggers to begin with. We wouldn't be the aggressor. So, why argue the obvious?

Why don't I condemn them? What good would condemning them (as you call it) on here do? It's already implied that I obviously don't approve and wouldn't do it myself. I don't like to condemn anyone for anything. I don't want to be condemned either. I know what I would do in these circumstances, and I know what I might like to see happen from others, But I am not them, and still I don't want to condemn other people, even in circumstances that appear that they might deserve condemnation. That's just how I am. I don't display or exhibit action on others that I don't want done to me (The Golden Rule). Or, at least I try my very best.

 

[KitingHigh]

Yet, you seem to be putting the onus on the aggrieved party...always. How about the knuckle-draggers DON'T try to incite a reaction? Why is that never your first option? You continually seem to blame those who responded for the escalation but never call out those who initiated it. No...you don't "condone it" but you have yet to condemn it the way you call out the people who responded.

Why is that?

Would you feel the same if this was a gay pride flag near a Christian Easter party? You seem way too focused on the identity of the groups rather than what actually happened.

Also, as I mentioned earlier, we should all remember the kids rhyme about sticks and stones... Words will never hurt me.

Strum is right about breaking the cycle. It takes two to start a fight. The best offense is to kill them with kindness. We all need a lot more of that.

 

[strummingram]

Or you could just piss them off and they come back and drive by even closer or they throw something at you. If you truly believed your philosophy, you wouldn't acknowledge them at all...which is, by far, the safest ploy. If you want to avoid an escalation, of course.

Well, I ignore them as well. I've had firecrackers thrown at me. Called a pussy, or ******. I could ignore them, sure. It depends on my mood. My point is, I don't yell back "F*ck you, asshole!" That's what they want!

 

[strummingram]

Would you feel the same if this was a gay pride flag near a Christian Easter party? You seem way too focused on the identity of the groups rather than what actually happened.

Well said and good observation.

 

[tarheelbybirth]

Simple... I cannot control THEM! I am looking at from the "victim's" perspective, however. I am trying to offer an alternative to the one who is on the receiving end.

Seriously? That's it? You can't control "THEM" but you feel you CAN somehow control the reactions of those on the receiving end? How about you "offer an alternative" to the folks who START the engagement next time?

 

[strummingram]

In these discussions, I never see or "read" Kiting displaying racial prejudice or bigotry. He is derided because he has that flag as his avatar. And, what I keep seeing is people reacting to their attitude toward a flag than toward what he actually exhibits or portrays as a person. It's actually no different than a white supremacist seeing a black person and acting as if he is superior to the black man based on the black man's appearance rather than his behavior and opinions as a human being. The point of contention is in the mind of human beings, not in the symbols. Until we all focus on that, we'll presume, assume and continue to follow secondary influences. The idea of "if we just stop displaying a flag, we'll all get along" is going to fail. You're not really revealing and dealing with prejudice that way. You're just making those who are prejudiced even more angry because you're trying to take their symbol away... whether it's a rebel flag, a swastika, a radish or a kewpie doll.

 

[tarheelbybirth]

Would you feel the same if this was a gay pride flag near a Christian Easter party? You seem way too focused on the identity of the groups rather than what actually happened.

Also, as I mentioned earlier, we should all remember the kids rhyme about sticks and stones... Words will never hurt me.

Strum is right about breaking the cycle. It takes two to start a fight. The best offense is to kill them with kindness. We all need a lot more of that.

1. Are the gay pride folks threatening the party-goers? Did they brandish a weapon? You seem to believe the folks at this party only responded to trucks with flags and you ignore everything they said occurred. I'm going to bet that had those trucks driven by with their flags flapping and KEPT RIGHT ON GOING, the folks at the party wouldn't have had time to say or do much of anything.

2. No, it only takes one to start a fight.

3. As for strum...you might want to note that he jumped in first and continues to respond. I suppose I could just ignore him but the reality is...that's really what he wants.

 

[strummingram]

Seriously? That's it? You can't control "THEM" but you feel you CAN somehow control the reactions of those on the receiving end? How about you "offer an alternative" to the folks who START the engagement next time?

I can control ME! That's it! I would gladly offer an alternative to those who start it. I explained that in detail in the post. Did you miss that? Are any of us here commending the aggressors? Are any of us here planning a flag-drag? NO! We're not planning to shoot-up a school either. So, the advice would be lost, or wasted. I could do it as some token gesture, but I'm not real fond of token gestures.

 

[strummingram]

1. Are the gay pride folks threatening the party-goers? Did they brandish a weapon? You seem to believe the folks at this party only responded to trucks with flags and you ignore everything they said occurred. I'm going to bet that had those trucks driven by with their flags flapping and KEPT RIGHT ON GOING, the folks at the party wouldn't have had time to say or do much of anything.

2. No, it only takes one to start a fight.

3. As for strum...you might want to note that he jumped in first and continues to respond. I suppose I could just ignore him but the reality is...that's really what he wants.

Are there rules as to when we can enter into these threads? Show me how you follow them, please.

I simply demonstrated how this word sensitivity you people insist is so prevalent is a sham. You're just as predisposed to hurling insults as anyone. So, insults, slurs, or anything else are just words, as I have always said. The intent to insult is obviously within your grasp to do repeatedly. The insult, or intent to insult, belittle, act superior to, are offensive. NOT THE WORDS YOU CHOOSE to display that arrogance. Arrogance is dangerous. The WORD "Arrogance" is harmless!

By the way, I agree that only one can START a fight.

 

[naturalmwa]

Did you miss that?

Probably, y'all are way too verbose on this topic. Try arguing in bullet points. Or better yet memes and gifs or other symbols like flags. Yeah, have a flag off!

 

[tarheelbybirth]

It's time for generations of folks, to quit using something they were never even close to being part of as an excuse to tear down peaceful society.

[/QUOTE]

Sooooo...quit flying a 150 year old flag since you're not close to being part of what it stood for?

I'm on board with that.

 

[strummingram]

Sooooo...quit flying a 150 year old flag since you're not close to being part of what it stood for?

I'm on board with that.[/QUOTE]
Does randomly seeing this flag bother you?

 

[strummingram]

Does seeing this flag, randomly, bother you?

 

[strummingram]

If those two don't bother you, to see them randomly, then why does the Rebel Flag bother you... in a random sense?

 

[tarheelbybirth]

Are there rules as to when we can enter into these threads? Show me how you follow them, please.

I simply demonstrated how this word sensitivity you people insist is so prevalent is a sham. You're just as predisposed to hurling insults as anyone. So, insults, slurs, or anything else are just words, as I have always said. The intent to insult is obviously within your grasp to do repeatedly. The insult, or intent to insult, belittle, act superior to, are offensive. NOT THE WORDS YOU CHOOSE to display that arrogance. Arrogance is dangerous. The WORD "Arrogance" is harmless!

By the way, I agree that only one can START a fight.

The intent to insult is obviously within your grasp to do repeatedly, as well. You say that words mean nothing...unless, apparently, they're uttered in response to a provocation. As I stated, had the truckers simply driven by with their flags flapping in the wind, none of this would have happened. It COULDN'T have happened. So I'll put the blame where it lies. You can continue to blame people who might have had enough.

As for arrogance, hi pot.

 

[tarheelbybirth]

If those two don't bother you, to see them randomly, then why does the Rebel Flag bother you... in a random sense?

Sorry...can't see them. And I've NEVER claimed to be "bothered" by the Confederate flag. I've claimed the right to judge people who choose to fly it. You seem to think the right to fly it isn't invested with any meaning at all except what the flyer "intends"...which is impossible to discern. It's a ridiculous stance, of course, but that's never stopped you before.

 

[strummingram]

Sorry...can't see them. And I've NEVER claimed to be "bothered" by the Confederate flag. I've claimed the right to judge people who choose to fly it. You seem to think the right to fly it isn't invested with any meaning at all except what the flyer "intends"...which is impossible to discern. It's a ridiculous stance, of course, but that's never stopped you before.

No, I don't mean to imply that you ignore the possibility of intent. I am fully aware that the people in the trucks were racists and trying to exhibit their racism by their use of the flags. But, their hatred and idea that they are better than the group they're exhibiting hatred toward bothers me far more than the flags they haul in their trucks. The flags don't bother me at all. I just get tired of people focusing their contempt toward the FLAG, not the prejudice itself.

 

[strummingram]

The intent to insult is obviously within your grasp to do repeatedly, as well. You say that words mean nothing...unless, apparently, they're uttered in response to a provocation. As I stated, had the truckers simply driven by with their flags flapping in the wind, none of this would have happened. It COULDN'T have happened. So I'll put the blame where it lies. You can continue to blame people who might have had enough.

As for arrogance, hi pot.

I'm fully aware of where the initial provocation lies. I don't understand the thrill they get from doing it, but they do. I'm not defending THEM by being offended by their prejudice instead of their flag.

 

[tarheelbybirth]

Flying the flag is an action. Using racist language is an action. Physical force is an action. I have contempt for the flag, but I condemn the action of choosing to fly a racist symbol. I condemn using racist language. I condemn physical violence against anyone. The difference is only in degree.

 

[strummingram]

Flying the flag is an action. Using racist language is an action. Physical force is an action. I have contempt for the flag, but I condemn the action of choosing to fly a racist symbol. I condemn using racist language. I condemn physical violence against anyone. The difference is only in degree.

Fair enough. I guess the flag itself has never bothered me anywhere NEAR as much. I've seen it in as many, if not more, benign contexts, as I have hateful. In fact, the benign contexts far outweigh the hateful. But, I guess I had a different life.

I still see these racists and their actions as hateful and provoking hatred. But, their flags are just scenery.

 

[tarheelbybirth]

I still see these racists and their actions as hateful and provoking hatred. But, their flags are just scenery.

And - finally - we agree....I just put choosing to fly the flag as an action. That it might be the least offensive thing they do doesn't make it ok.

Kumbaya

 

[HawktimusPrime]

Sooooo...quit flying a 150 year old flag since you're not close to being part of what it stood for?

I'm on board with that.[/QUOTE]
If you personally choose to do that, who the bleep are you to tell the they shouldn't? You're kind of a pussy Tar, I wouldn't even attempt to do anything you suggested.

I kid, I kid.