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Congrats to Kirk Ferentz, #1 in wins in Program History; Angerer says KF is "Greatest of all time."

To be fair, he played the hell outta some tough non-cons early in his run:

He played #5 Nebraska (then non-con, obvi) in Yr 1.
#8 K St and #1 Nebraska Yr 2.
#16 Arizona St Yr 4

I get it, we haven’t played much non-con lately. But that’s the lay of the land of upper-tier but not elite programs today. But it’s a stretch to hold a “weak non-con” against his career mark, especially when comparing to Hayden, who knocked down plenty of tomato cans himself.

I'd also argue that Ferentz has faced an Iowa State team annually that was light-years ahead of the Cyclone teams Fry faced. On the whole, Iowa's non-con has been on par, and maybe more difficult, than Fry's. That's not to knock Fry, he knew the fastest way to grow the program was to get UCLA/Nebraska/etc off the schedule and get wins. Snyder followed the same script at KSU and Alvarez in his early years at Wisconsin.
 
I guess I don't understand the premise of your argument. We don't get to overwhelm them on the field because we have more fan support. Those schools have better recruiting areas in their backyard and as much financial support available as Iowa does. The fact that Iowa has invested in facilities and coaches salaries, and maintained stability should be to their credit, at least in how they match up to these peer schools. Illinois and Minnesota are certainly capable of competing at a higher level. At least they should be.

Theres a blatant correlation between fan support and winning.

If the primary factor was population base the east coast teams would be the best.

When in fact they are the worst because no one cares about them.
 
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This is what's wrong with the Ferentz apologists. It's always that things could be worse, never better. I bet you guys dated/married the mediocre, homely girl because it could have been worse, she could have been ugly . Being the best or near the top doesn't interest you.

Well, I'll also say that you set up a bit of a false premise. Iowa isn't out looking for a coach every year and picking Ferentz.....they hired Ferentz in 1999 and have chosen not to fire him. There are legit criticisms over some of the contract extensions he's received (particularly when it comes to length), but looking back, there were really only a couple of times when firing him wouldn't have been a PR disaster -- after the 2007 season or 2012-13 era. Change is uncomfortable because it could go either way, so that's part of it. I like that Iowa has not been a disaster over the last 40 years. There were some dips at the start of each coach's time, but on the whole, they've been competitive with years where they went higher.

I get that this season was disappointing on many levels, especially after seeing the absolute beatdown of OSU, but is 8-5 really fireable? IMHO, no. Could Iowa possibly hire a better coach right now? Sure, but how do you justify a firing? IMHO, at this point, the best move for Iowa is to let Kirk finish out (unless the team becomes a disaster). There's been talk of Brian Ferentz, but that will work itself out over the next couple years. If he turns Iowa into a really good offensive team, then maybe there's a path, but otherwise, that's going to work itself out. If/when Iowa goes on the market looking for a coach, they have a 40 year legacy of a lot of NFL players and they're really the only P5 program that can sell job security. Iowa doesn't fire coaches often and that will likely be attractive to coaches who are interested in a long-term future at this level.
 
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With a lesser coach, we could easily have a program similar to Minnesota, Illinois, Indiana, etc.

That's the point. Complain all you want about losing some games we should win-- I get it, that is being a fan-- but for a UNIVERSITY, we could not do much better between coaching and mentoring young men, consistency, and representing the school. I went there--maybe some of you b***** about it don't get it. It matters to have a winning program AND a clean one represented by a guy like Ferentz.

And with a good AD we could be Wisconsin.

We used to be better than them.
 
Theres a blatant correlation between fan support and winning.

If the primary factor was population base the east coast teams would be the best.

When in fact they are the worst because no one cares about them.
I never said it was about population base. Its about how much the university invests in facilities, and coaches, and hiring the right people with a solid plan and sticking to that plan. This is what Iowa has done better then Illinois, Minny, Indiana, and Purdue, until recently.
 
This is what's wrong with the Ferentz apologists. It's always that things could be worse, never better. I bet you guys dated/married the mediocre, homely girl because it could have been worse, she could have been ugly . Being the best or near the top doesn't interest you.


I have to be honest with you....this is an absolutely horrible analogy to further your cause. 1st, beauty is obviously in the eye of the beholder and I'd wager many, if not most of us, find our wives exceedingly beautiful and prettier than yours, the next guys, etc....thats how love works. With that said, there is nothing worse, than a constant,nagging, over the top, wondering woman. So yes doing "worse" is a real thing and if you married for "beauty" you are a fool and likely divorced.

Finally most of us aren't apologists.The facts are, the program is in waayy better shape than YOU and those like you realize. There is of course always a cost analysis to every business decision and fortunately you aren't in the loop. Because you'd make a horrendous decision based on your belief that we should win games like Alabama.

Dumb people rarely get to make these kinds of decisions, fortunately...
 
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Or just tired of being bored.


LOL...well that's a decision. Very poor argument, some of you guys more than just being ill-informed football fans, have no clue how to put yourself in a winnable position in a debate. It regularly surprises me. I guess it shouldn't but it does....

If you are bored by your football team, you should refocus your priorities.

Not to mention its a disingenuous comment, that shows a complete lack of national or historical perspective. Scoring 55 vs tOSU or Nebbie wasn't boring. Nor really was the PSU game...whats boring is only being the 25th best program over the last 15 years. You want more and you only want more because of what KF has already done...

Rule #1 in life, be honest with yourself. Some of us can see through BS from a mile away.
 
Well, I'll also say that you set up a bit of a false premise. Iowa isn't out looking for a coach every year and picking Ferentz.....they hired Ferentz in 1999 and have chosen not to fire him. There are legit criticisms over some of the contract extensions he's received (particularly when it comes to length), but looking back, there were really only a couple of times when firing him wouldn't have been a PR disaster -- after the 2007 season or 2012-13 era. Change is uncomfortable because it could go either way, so that's part of it. I like that Iowa has not been a disaster over the last 40 years. There were some dips at the start of each coach's time, but on the whole, they've been competitive with years where they went higher.

I get that this season was disappointing on many levels, especially after seeing the absolute beatdown of OSU, but is 8-4 really fireable? IMHO, no. Could Iowa possibly hire a better coach right now? Sure, but how do you justify a firing? IMHO, at this point, the best move for Iowa is to let Kirk finish out (unless the team becomes a disaster). There's been talk of Brian Ferentz, but that will work itself out over the next couple years. If he turns Iowa into a really good offensive team, then maybe there's a path, but otherwise, that's going to work itself out. If/when Iowa goes on the market looking for a coach, they have a 40 year legacy of a lot of NFL players and they're really the only P5 program that can sell job security. Iowa doesn't fire coaches often and that will likely be attractive to coaches who are interested in a long-term future at this level.

This is an awesome post and I'll add.............

Of course we could hire a better coach but who......

Lets just look at a couple hot young recent hires...

Brohm.....had several real stinkers on O this year...

Campbell, was completely ineffective vs Texas and played one QB when it became obvious he had 3. That would have got him shot over here.

Herman at Texas....wow what an up & down roller coaster and there are already fans that want his whole offensive staff fired. This from last years "Offensive" guru hire.

So I ask who...be careful what you say because he will also have bad games and detractors on his resume.
 
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True, but all three of those states have pro teams and not as much fan interest in the Illini, Gopher, and Hoosier football teams as people in the state of Iowa have for the Hawkeyes. I understand your point but not exactly an apples to apples comparison.
They also all have more instate talent than Iowa. So yeah not apples to apples.
 
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This is what's wrong with the Ferentz apologists. It's always that things could be worse, never better. I bet you guys dated/married the mediocre, homely girl because it could have been worse, she could have been ugly . Being the best or near the top doesn't interest you.

Straw man argument much? Of course things could be worse, that isn't the entire argument. Do 5 Top 10 finishes mean nothing? I look at it in terms of what coach has the best chance for Iowa win win a division and/or conference title in the next 2-3 years and to put the team with a consistent chance to win. In my opinion, KF is one of the best options Iowa could have. If I thought differently, I would say so, and so would many others. Many of the naysayers would advocate changing coaches every 2-3 years as all that is holding Iowa back from being a perennial Top 10 team is a coach that gives a crap. People don't like to hear the demographics argument but it is there, and will always be there for the Iowa coach.
 
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Straw man argument much? Of course things could be worse, that isn't the entire argument. Do 5 Top 10 finishes mean nothing? I look at it in terms of what coach has the best chance for Iowa win win a division and/or conference title in the next 2-3 years and to put the team with a consistent chance to win. In my opinion, KF is one of the best options Iowa could have. If I thought differently, I would say so, and so would many others. Many of the naysayers would advocate changing coaches every 2-3 years as all that is holding Iowa back from being a perennial Top 10 team is a coach that gives a crap. People don't like to hear the demographics argument but it is there, and will always be there for the Iowa coach.

This definitely goes into the cost-benefit analysis for me. In college football, the high end performance is basically what Alabama has done under Saban - multiple national championships, basically always in the top 10 and almost always in the playoff. The low end probably looks a lot like Rutgers - perennial doormat.

So with those brackets set, we look to see -- could Iowa be Alabama? Given recruiting limitations due to local population, weather, etc., that's probably a longshot. Iowa has had peaks that were great a little less than that, but they last 2-3 years, tops, based on 40 years of recent history. Could they be Rutgers? They were for 20 years between Evy & Fry. This tells me that setting Saban's Alabama program as a goal is not especially realistic, but that the Rutgers floor could be in play if Iowa were to make a series of bad football hires.

Realistically, Iowa isn't going to hit either extreme. They aren't CFB royalty, but they have plenty of "name" to get enough talent to stay out of the cellar over any kind of long-term. I think Iowa is basically an 8-8.5 win program. It would take an absolute homerun hire to get them to a 10-win program (I'm talking program, not season).....but it wouldn't be that hard for a mediocre hire or two to drop them to a 6-win program.

I've been critical of Ferentz in the past for specific things. He is the coach that he is, though, so every year, the question is whether he's done enough to keep his job. The answer is basically always "yes". He's not a perfect coach and it's absolutely possible that someone could come in and do better, but it's most likely that someone else would come in and do about the same. Status quo is far from terrible, so if there's no clear justification to fire, I think the smart play is to carry on.
 
I don't dislike Kirk Ferentz. I dislike his style of play. It is boring as hell. I also dislike him treating the Football Program as his personal family business. Due to a spineless and inept A.D. he has allowed nepotism to be rampant in the program. A law is on the books against that happening yet it has.
Look at how ugly it is getting at Kansas State with Snyder demanding his son replace him. Sean Snyder is 48 years old and is Asst. Head Coach and Special Teams Coordinator.
I don't care if Iowa puts a statue of Kirk outside the stadium next to Kinnick's, or name the street outside the stadium Ferentz Way, he should not be allowed to have family on his staff.
This will not end well.
 
I don't dislike Kirk Ferentz. I dislike his style of play. It is boring as hell. I also dislike him treating the Football Program as his personal family business. Due to a spineless and inept A.D. he has allowed nepotism to be rampant in the program. A law is on the books against that happening yet it has.
Look at how ugly it is getting at Kansas State with Snyder demanding his son replace him. Sean Snyder is 48 years old and is Asst. Head Coach and Special Teams Coordinator.
I don't care if Iowa puts a statue of Kirk outside the stadium next to Kinnick's, or name the street outside the stadium Ferentz Way, he should not be allowed to have family on his staff.
This will not end well.


Well K-st is still winning and football is a "family" business. I've ran this down before but it is a pretty normal thing that most out of touch fans don't realize. In fact Jimmy H has a son on staff. If you'd look you'd find it is happening everywhere.

Not to mention KF's family has done a solid job. The recruiting is on a major upswing.
 
You are right. We just finished 4-5 in conference and played a poor team in the Pinstripe bowl. Things are going great !!
You are so stupid you don't know you are stupid.
 
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You are right. We just finished 4-5 in conference and played a poor team in the Pinstripe bowl. Things are going great !!
You are so stupid you don't know you are stupid.


Number 5 schedule in the nation, 8-5....were ok, not great, but ok. I honestly don't care what you think, over time I will still be way closer to the Truth than you.

All those men your mad about having jobs would be hired tomorrow by another staff so you complaints are unfounded. Per usual...
 
Lets look at the last 39 years.

For every 3 games Hayden Fry won, he lost 2.

For every 3 games Kirk Ferentz has won, he has lost 2.

Iowa claims one national championship in its entire history. Not sure we will EVER win a national championship under ANYONE.

We were a snatch hair away from the CFP 2 years ago. I don’t get this outlook at all. It’ll take a lot of luck, but it’s not flat out impossible to win big at Iowa. Tom Osborne won his first NC 23 years into his tenure after Nebraska fans saying for years that he couldn’t win one. I like how 2018 and 2019 are setting up myself.
 
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LOL...well that's a decision. Very poor argument, some of you guys more than just being ill-informed football fans, have no clue how to put yourself in a winnable position in a debate. It regularly surprises me. I guess it shouldn't but it does....

If you are bored by your football team, you should refocus your priorities.

Not to mention its a disingenuous comment, that shows a complete lack of national or historical perspective. Scoring 55 vs tOSU or Nebbie wasn't boring. Nor really was the PSU game...whats boring is only being the 25th best program over the last 15 years. You want more and you only want more because of what KF has already done...

Rule #1 in life, be honest with yourself. Some of us can see through BS from a mile away.

Lol, where do you come up with this stuff?

You dont get to decide whether or not someone finds something borring. That is a truly terrible argument.

Yes, id like to see teams that resemble the 2000s when we used to be the more physical team against the likes Wisconsin and MSU.

That hasn't been the case for a long time.

Why would I not want that?
 
I don't dislike Kirk Ferentz. I dislike his style of play. It is boring as hell. I also dislike him treating the Football Program as his personal family business. Due to a spineless and inept A.D. he has allowed nepotism to be rampant in the program. A law is on the books against that happening yet it has.
Look at how ugly it is getting at Kansas State with Snyder demanding his son replace him. Sean Snyder is 48 years old and is Asst. Head Coach and Special Teams Coordinator.
I don't care if Iowa puts a statue of Kirk outside the stadium next to Kinnick's, or name the street outside the stadium Ferentz Way, he should not be allowed to have family on his staff.
This will not end well.

Losers put up false impediments to winning. It should not matter who KF hires if the program is successful.... period. If he does not produce then move on. Nothing else matters.

As for K-State they should be thanking Synder in spades that they even have a program. I remember the days when they were getting rolled by everyone. Kansas can only dream of having KSUs situation right now.
 
Lol, where do you come up with this stuff?

You dont get to decide whether or not someone finds something borring. That is a truly terrible argument.

Yes, id like to see teams that resemble the 2000s when we used to be the more physical team against the likes Wisconsin and MSU.

That hasn't been the case for a long time.

Why would I not want that?


Well I don't remember if it was you who "started" the boring comment, but the premise was PU was awesome and not boring and Iowa was......so going with your theme. Of course I don't get to decide that, but I can call out hypocrisy...meaning if your bored by Iowa then you are bored by PU too.

Simple concept....
 
Well I don't remember if it was you who "started" the boring comment, but the premise was PU was awesome and not boring and Iowa was......so going with your theme. Of course I don't get to decide that, but I can call out hypocrisy...meaning if your bored by Iowa then you are bored by PU too.

Simple concept....

Purdue was never part of anything I said.
 
To be fair, he played the hell outta some tough non-cons early in his run:

He played #5 Nebraska (then non-con, obvi) in Yr 1.
#8 K St and #1 Nebraska Yr 2.
#16 Arizona St Yr 4

I get it, we haven’t played much non-con lately. But that’s the lay of the land of upper-tier but not elite programs today. But it’s a stretch to hold a “weak non-con” against his career mark, especially when comparing to Hayden, who knocked down plenty of tomato cans himself.

While I congratulate Kirk on his milestone, let's not forget that Hayden won his games when there were less games in a regular season, less bowl games, all while he could not avoid Ohio State and Michigan (when they weren't a shadow of their former selves) on the schedule.
 
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This is what's wrong with the Ferentz apologists. It's always that things could be worse, never better. I bet you guys dated/married the mediocre, homely girl because it could have been worse, she could have been ugly . Being the best or near the top doesn't interest you.

This is one doesn't make as much sense to me, despite Ferentz's average of maybe 7.5 of 8 wins whatever it is, it's not clearly the mode. He isn't like Pelini at who finished like 9-4 consistently as both a floor and a ceiling, Ferentz has had a lower floor and higher ceiling.

2002, 2009 and 2015 were all years that if just a couple things went differently they could be playing for the chance to be the very best.

There's a few more years where a few things go differently they're near the very top.

I think your complaints would have more merit if the records had proven the ceiling isn't high. It's just difficult and things need to go very right.

I think he's a victim of his success, the occasional great seasons, draft picks or top 5 upsets, sets unrealistic expectations for some fans in terms of consistency. Throw in a high salary, a few really stand out losses as big favorites, the style of play and the bowl loses and the Ferentz fatigue is permanent for some.
 
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While I congratulate Kirk on his milestone, let's not forget that Hayden won his games when there were less games in a regular season, less bowl games, all while he could not avoid Ohio State and Michigan (when they weren't a shadow of their former selves) on the schedule.


Well Id be lying if I said I didn't expect this to be coming...

Lets start with tOSU...they have routinely kicked Iowa's arse for all time...Hayden played them 16 times and won 3 and tied 1. KF has played them 10 times and beat them twice.

Hayden beat a 9 win tOSU, 8 win, 6 win, and tied a miserable 4-6-1 tOSU. KF beat an 8 win tOSU and a 12 win...

As for UM, KF has kicked UM's ass. HF played them 16 times and beat 2, 9- win teams & a 10 win team & a 6 win team. Losing to a 12-win team an 11 win team, 3 10's and 2 9's..Better sure...

KF on the other hand has beat them 7 out of 12 times and his wins included 3 10-win teams and one 11...he lost to a 11 win team and a 9 win team. A difference but not enough to "change" history.

But more to the Truth, the Big 10, Iowa St and college football as a whole are drastically tougher now than it was in the 80's and early 90's. Furthermore KF has played 240 games in 19 years and Hayden played 238 in 20. Again, a difference but not dramatic.
 
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While I congratulate Kirk on his milestone, let's not forget that Hayden won his games when there were less games in a regular season, less bowl games, all while he could not avoid Ohio State and Michigan (when they weren't a shadow of their former selves) on the schedule.

Less games per season and bowls really isn't a factor when you consider they have nearly identical win percentages. You can also add in the ISU, Northwestern and Wisconsin are all far better now than when Fry was taking them to task. Penn State also wasn't in the conference until 1990.

In my mind, Fry's turn around was significantly more impressive than the turn around Ferentz had to do but Ferentz's overall record given the parity of college football and higher highs is more impressive than Fry's.
 
Less games per season and bowls really isn't a factor when you consider they have nearly identical win percentages. You can also add in the ISU, Northwestern and Wisconsin are all far better now than when Fry was taking them to task. Penn State also wasn't in the conference until 1990.

In my mind, Fry's turn around was significantly more impressive than the turn around Ferentz had to do but Ferentz's overall record given the parity of college football and higher highs is more impressive than Fry's.


very well said....
 
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