Not picking on Cooper, if they both wrestled like this, not sure they would even be invited to Nationals. Chance looked scary bad (bad as not good) after one, got lucky in the second, and the third hung on for the win. I have seen Cooper live a few times and on video (so I won't count video matches because this is on a Iowa board and I don't want to piss anybody off), he just isn't AA material and he has been in the room for over a year with some of the best coaches out there and looks the same . I would compare him with Kelly of last year except Kelly would of won that match. Back to Chance, he either gets his weight issue and endurance resolved or he's sitting on the pine after SS.
Cooper
- Thread starter MVPFAN
- Start date
Man, how things can change from high school to college. Definitely a reminder that there's no such thing as a "sure fire" recruit. Marsteller may end up having a very solid college career, but if you'd asked anyone about his prospects during his high school years, you would have had people counting how many national titles he was going to win, and whether or not he'd crack the starting lineup wouldn't even have been a consideration.
This. While I understand the points some are making about Coop not "earning" it - when a wrestler puts his forehead on the mat in a ball and hangs on to an ankle when the up man has stood completely up and is not touching him - that is an automatic stall call. Even if he had not had any other stall warnings. The book talks a lot about always working to improve position and a complete failure to do that is an auto call. If coop would have turned to jump-clear his ankle, he would have put himself in jeopardy for a reversal against that calibre of opponent. I was hoping for improvement on the stall calls this year, but all I saw here was a continuation of the same. Marstellar should have been dq'd by the end of the 2nd (his lollygagging and shoe-tie alone warranted an immediate hit - again that is by the book).
Excellent points, hoff. I had the same thought about Cooper trying to kick out -- it seemed on the surface like something he should do, but as you say, Marstellar could have grabbed the other leg and reversed him.
Marsteller should have been hit immediately for delaying with the shoe baloney and all, as you say. Refs need to have zero tolerance for that garbage, and he was allowed to get away with it far more than he should have been. I haven't seen the old "shoe-tie" routine from an Okie Stater for many years now, due to the rule change. It can't be allowed to happen and needs to be called right away. Otherwise, you end up encouraging other guys with no gas tank to try the same schtick.
Marsteller should have been hit immediately for delaying with the shoe baloney and all, as you say. Refs need to have zero tolerance for that garbage, and he was allowed to get away with it far more than he should have been. I haven't seen the old "shoe-tie" routine from an Okie Stater for many years now, due to the rule change. It can't be allowed to happen and needs to be called right away. Otherwise, you end up encouraging other guys with no gas tank to try the same schtick.
All good points but stalling and fleeing was most definitely called more yesterday than we have seen in recent years. They could still do more but it was refreshing.
That is definitely true - and a good point - I know I just have so little tolerance for some of this stuff. It is not like it hasn't been in the rules at least in spirit since forever. Then we have to make MORE rules to make sure it is getting called, and STILL doesn't. I tell you what. You DQ a #1 rank at the beginning of the year and it would really go a long way to making it a non-issue. Who would be willing to risk it?
This on paper is a no-brainer, but I don't think there are any potential starters currently sitting behind Cooper that will be in the lineup for any length of time barring injury to others. That said, If Cooper doesn't have it by now he's not going to find it, so go ahead and develop some depth for the future.
What I d
This. It was actually very heady wrestling by Marsteller.
On a side note, my understanding is that Smith loves to make his guys cut a lot of weight, and Marsteller has never like cutting weight. Doesn't that make OSU an odd choice for Marsteller? Maybe he should consider transferring to a school where he could wrestle 165.
This. It was actually very heady wrestling by Marsteller.
On a side note, my understanding is that Smith loves to make his guys cut a lot of weight, and Marsteller has never like cutting weight. Doesn't that make OSU an odd choice for Marsteller? Maybe he should consider transferring to a school where he could wrestle 165.
Not that it matters but I think there's a good possibility that Mike Kelly would have pinned Marsteller
By the time he got the transfer organized, Marinelli would be here to take him out of the lineup. But he would make for a great backup...............What I d
This. It was actually very heady wrestling by Marsteller.
On a side note, my understanding is that Smith loves to make his guys cut a lot of weight, and Marsteller has never like cutting weight. Doesn't that make OSU an odd choice for Marsteller? Maybe he should consider transferring to a school where he could wrestle 165.
You make a good point however. Smith does have a pretty good history of this, and Cael has been just the opposite, so in that context it is a bit odd he left his "home" and PSU verbal behind to go to Okie State. It ain't working too hot so far, and that's after he won! Ha! He's obviously a great talent. The human empathy side of me hopes he's able to pull it together in the long run, the "I Love The Hawks" side of me hope he continues as he is and isn't a major thorn in our side for the next few years.........................
This loss falls squarely on the shoulder's of the coaching staff. Marstellar could barely get back to the center of the mat after the first period. Cooper is not a rider. What in the world were they wasting time on top for. Coop could have racked up 3-4 takedowns in the second and another stall call would have got the DQ. I was watching the coaches in amazement that they weren't having Cooper cut him.
Rarely have I watched a match and left so uncertain about the wrestlers' respective abilities -- on both sides. Cooper had a frustratingly uneven performance. I have no idea whether he has hit his ceiling, on the one hand, or whether he can step it up a notch and his relatively deficient showing resulted from a combination of nerves, inexperience, gas tank, poor tactical decisions, etc. As for Marstellar, I would be morose if I were Smith. This guy's high school career was second only to Cary Kolat's. I was having trouble watching Chance out there. The comments on this thread suggest that his performance was due to cutting too much weight and that the Marstellar of old will re-appear when he comes back next year at 165. I hope for his sake that is the explanation. But I would not rule out the possibility of burn-out. The performance had a Campolattano feel to it.
That's a fabulous compilation of what my mind experienced watching Cooper live at the meet, and then watching it again on replay last night. It was perplexing for sure. Well done Sir.
I read an interview with Smith where he says he's not cutting that much weight, just hasn't figured out how to do it right yet. He must be doing it really wrong to die like that. I thought he was going to need help getting back to the locker room. This was a time where I wish we had an international freestyle ref who would have grabbed him by the arm, drug him to the middle and made him wrestle.
Kelly getting pinned in that match is just about as likely.
I am certain Cooper knows he is terrible on the mat by now and that going from is feet is his best position. I don't see why the coaches would need to tell him. I think Cooper was too gassed to take full advantage of Marstellar being gassed.
I am not certain of this, but I think Tim Johnson said during the broadcast that one more call and Marstellar was done. I don't recall Gibbons chiming in on the subject for confirmation, but I assume Johnson knows the rule.
Unless I'm wrong, a couple of years ago they eliminated the "caution, 1-point, 1-point, 2-point, DQ" progression for stalling, just awarding 1-point penalties after the initial caution. No 2-point penalty or DQ.
Then last year, I believe, they re-instituted DQ but not the 2-pointer. Caution, 1-point, 1-point, 1-point, DQ.
I think.
EDIT: Obviously, I should have said "warning," not "caution."
On a side note, after watching the replay, I have to applaud Crutchmer for his performance. That duck to the headlock transition was explosive as hell, like he started that move with only the headlock in mind, it was that fast. And he wrestled a good overall match, as did Meyer.
I am definitely in the camp that thinks Meyer can beat Crutchmer at any given time, but Crutchmer was right there and stayed in there for the majority of the match. I like that. He deserved what he eventually got, a nice win in a hostile environment. Well done by him.
From the rule book:
When a referee recognizes stalling, the first violation will be a warning; the second violation will result in 1 point being awarded to the opponent; the third violation is 1 point being awarded to the opponent; the fourth violation is 1 point being awarded to the opponent; and the fifth violation will result in a disqualification.
Found this one interesting too ... wasn't this the 57 match also? or was it 74?
1.12.3 Footwear. Light, heelless wrestling shoes reaching above the ankle and tightly secured shall be worn. Any match delay or stoppage directly related to shoelaces shall be treated as delay of match and, therefore, a stalling violation.
When a referee recognizes stalling, the first violation will be a warning; the second violation will result in 1 point being awarded to the opponent; the third violation is 1 point being awarded to the opponent; the fourth violation is 1 point being awarded to the opponent; and the fifth violation will result in a disqualification.
Found this one interesting too ... wasn't this the 57 match also? or was it 74?
1.12.3 Footwear. Light, heelless wrestling shoes reaching above the ankle and tightly secured shall be worn. Any match delay or stoppage directly related to shoelaces shall be treated as delay of match and, therefore, a stalling violation.
Good find. This was in the 157 match and Chance was definitely NOT called for stalling for infraction of rule 1.12.3.
Thought they also said something about taping over the laces. I don't know if that's a "normal" thing or not, but probably a good idea.
He should of been DQ, if Copper couldn't of won that match he should of been DQ for stalling on top at the end of the match.
Chance could of been DQ so many ways at the end. Shoe lace tie has happened every match so far I have seen from Chance this season. As much as some of you hate OSU, we don't like the stalling just as much as Iowa.
Gilman would have dragged him to the middle. Cooper is too nice a guy
How does a D1 wrestler no know how to release a guy? Get around front, take your hands off, boom escape awarded jump back on. He moved around front and leaned on the head for an eternity and let the guy right into his legs. WTF! The reality, Cooper's tank was barely better than Crutch's and he didn't show the heart to be the starter IMHO. Let St. John have the next go.
I think we have to prove St John even exists before he goes at 157.
I'm not going to claim Cooper wasn't a little dumb, but for God sakes I've never seen a wrestler who refused to be released - [the genius of D1 stallers knows no bounds!]. The fact of the matter is the ref should have DQed him.
If you look really careful in the last 30 sec you will see Chance had tied Copper shoe laces together. That's why Copper couldn't get away! The old shoe lace trick, haven't seen that used in a while.
I'm pretty sure it's been a rule for some time that laces have to be covered. Initially the rule was they had to be taped, then adjusted with the advent of Velcro strapped.
Either way, I think it's supposed to count as injury time to tie your shoelaces.
5.9.1 Initiating Action. Action is to be maintained throughout the match by the contestants staying near the center of the mat and wrestling aggressively in all positions (top, bottom or neutral). Stalling is defined as one or both wrestlers attempting to avoid wrestling action as an offensive or defensive strategy. When a referee recognizes stalling, the first violation will be a warning; the second violation will result in 1 point being awarded to the opponent; the third violation is 1 point being awarded to the opponent; the fourth violation is 1 point being awarded to the opponent; and the fifth violation will result in a disqualification
A lot of people on here bad mouthed Sorensen last year after his first match. He gassed and looked terrible after the first period against ISU I believe. I would like to see what Cooper has after a few matches are under his belt. I have watched a lot of practices and SSJ is very though but I have not seen a lot of offense the times I watched. Doesn't mean he isn't an offensive machine but right now I think Cooper could still end up being solid. I don't have any dogs in the fight and don't care who gets the spot. Just saying guys can improve during the year even seniors and sometimes young guys get over hyped on the boards.
I don't remember anyone on here bad mouth Sorenson. everyone was saying how great he was all the way from his true freshman year. me in my infinite wisdom wasn't buying in, shows how smart I am. I was the last one on that bandwagon, but I never bad mouthed the kid.
I remember people comparing Sorensen to McIlravy who I believe had a less than desirable debut in CHA, maybe attributing it to the nerves, but giving him props for gutting out the win on a nearly empty tank.
The key wording in there is avoiding wrestling. When marsteller would not let cooper release him and hung onto the foot he should have gotten rung up(or an immidete stalemate). I'm not sure what was worse that or the end of the crutchmer match. The moral of the story is NCAA officials will continue to eat their whistle in the closing seconds of matches no matter what the rules are.
I honestly don't believe what cm did was stalling. He was on bottom, and from there he got a leg - nothing wrong with that, he in position to work towards a reversal. Cooper then decided he wanted to go neutral. Sorry, but the bottom man doesn't have to give up your leg because you want to let him up.
It's a weird situation, but it wasn't stalling.
It could be a stalemate, but even that would have been an odd stalemate; because it's not as if cooper couldn't improve his position. He wanted to stop wrestling from the top.
Similar threads
