Countries that initially handled COVID well...

[Hawki97]

...at least in terms of infection and death rates now struggling to contain it after re-opening:

https://www.cnn.com/2020/08/03/world/coronavirus-second-wave-resurgence-intl/index.html.

Germany, Australia, Japan, etc...

 

[Hawkeye_311]

So basically no matter what anyone does it's going to spread.

 

[hawkeyetraveler]

So basically no matter what anyone does it's going to spread.

Sure. It’s a question of degree.

In Germany the active infection rate is something like 70x less than the active rate in the United States. Because they did the sensible measures early on and because they did not open up too soon they are now eating out at restaurants MORE per capita than they were last year at this time.

Wouldn’t that be nice? So wear a mask, socially distance and let’s get our country back on track.

 

[Hawkeyenuts66]

Sure. It’s a question of degree.

In Germany the active infection rate is something like 70x less than the active rate in the United States. Because they did the sensible measures early on and because they did not open up too soon they are now eating out at restaurants MORE per capita than they were last year at this time.

Wouldn’t that be nice? So wear a mask, socially distance and let’s get our country back on track.

Can you post a link to the 70x data? I'm seeing the difference of infection rates at about 5.8%.

 

[Hawki97]

So basically no matter what anyone does it's going to spread.

It certainly could lead you to the anecdotal conclusion that no matter what you do or how well you started off in your response - if you open up, spread is inevitable.

I guess we'll just have to wait and see...

 

[hexumhawk]

Viruses are going to virus.

 

[OrlandNole]

So basically no matter what anyone does it's going to spread.

Countries impose social distancing measures, COVID infection/death rates stay low.
Countries ease social distancing measures: COVID infection/death rates increase.

OP concludes: We can't do anything to slow the spread of COVID.

 

[33hawkfan]

So basically no matter what anyone does it's going to spread.

If you reopen, yes. That’s why severe restrictions need to be kept in place until there’s a vaccine available in large enough quantities.

 

[hexumhawk]

If you reopen, yes. That’s why severe restrictions need to be kept in place until there’s a vaccine available in large enough quantities.

Lock the nursing homes down, not the schools.

 

[33hawkfan]

Lock the nursing homes down, not the schools.

Nursing homes should be locked down, bars and indoor dining closed. Online only schools for all levels, no sports at any level. No church services, there should be nothing allowed that creates large gatherings of people.

 

[Rudolph]

Simply fascinating how there never seems to be any interest or appetite for learning from other countries/societies and emulating something they’ve done or are doing that is proven successful.

 

[hexumhawk]

Nursing homes should be locked down, bars and indoor dining closed. Online only schools for all levels, no sports at any level. No church services, there should be nothing allowed that creates large gatherings of people.

Ok commie

 

[Herky T Hawk]

A century ago the Spanish Flu came in three main waves. The first one was bad. The second was horribly fatal. And the third wasn’t as bad as the others. Then it pretty much vanished. People theorized that the more lethal strains of it killed off people before they had much of a chance to infect others and what was left were the less lethal strains that society pretty much absorbed into normal “sick season”.

I’ve wondered if this is going to go similar to that. And if so, what if by screwing the pooch in the first wave means that the USA will actually be unintentionally better positioned for a second wave? A somewhat large percentage of the most susceptible people have already gotten it and died or have learned how to live their lives isolated while we deal with this. So the rest of society should be better positioned from a health aspect to survive if they catch it. That also depends upon measures like closed borders continuing so that the more lethal strains overseas can’t make it over here to spread.

Having said all of that, I’m hoping that the vaccines in development will come to fruition and that we don’t have to see if that will come true.

 

[Hawki97]

A century ago the Spanish Flu came in three main waves. The first one was bad. The second was horribly fatal. And the third wasn’t as bad as the others. Then it pretty much vanished. People theorized that the more lethal strains of it killed off people before they had much of a chance to infect others and what was left were the less lethal strains that society pretty much absorbed into normal “sick season”.

I’ve wondered if this is going to go similar to that. And if so, what if by screwing the pooch in the first wave means that the USA will actually be unintentionally better positioned for a second wave? A somewhat large percentage of the most susceptible people have already gotten it and died or have learned how to live their lives isolated while we deal with this. So the rest of society should be better positioned from a health aspect to survive if they catch it. That also depends upon measures like closed borders continuing so that the more lethal strains overseas can’t make it over here to spread.

Having said all of that, I’m hoping that the vaccines in development will come to fruition and that we don’t have to see if that will come true.

I've wondered this too.

 

[NCHawk5]

A century ago the Spanish Flu came in three main waves. The first one was bad. The second was horribly fatal. And the third wasn’t as bad as the others. Then it pretty much vanished. People theorized that the more lethal strains of it killed off people before they had much of a chance to infect others and what was left were the less lethal strains that society pretty much absorbed into normal “sick season”.

I’ve wondered if this is going to go similar to that. And if so, what if by screwing the pooch in the first wave means that the USA will actually be unintentionally better positioned for a second wave? A somewhat large percentage of the most susceptible people have already gotten it and died or have learned how to live their lives isolated while we deal with this. So the rest of society should be better positioned from a health aspect to survive if they catch it. That also depends upon measures like closed borders continuing so that the more lethal strains overseas can’t make it over here to spread.

Having said all of that, I’m hoping that the vaccines in development will come to fruition and that we don’t have to see if that will come true.

Possibly why death rates are significantly lower now. Worst strains aren’t around. We’ve lost control of this thing, best to just buckle up for the ride at this point.

 

[hawkeyetraveler]

Can you post a link to the 70x data? I'm seeing the difference of infection rates at about 5.8%.

Sure, I was talking about active infection rate. Source is Worldometers. Active infections in USA = 0.68%. Active infections in Germany is .01%.

0.68% is 68X more than .01%. More detail below the line.

---- tl;dr ----

First for clarification I said "active infection rate". In other words what % of the country is currently listed as being infected. I think about this as the measure of how likely any one of us would be to come across someone that is carrying the disease (and yes in both countries the liklihood is less than this measure since sick people will hopefully stay home). None the less the ratio is telling. The difference in rates was just over 70x over the weekend. It stands at 68x right now...here is the math and the link to the underlying data:

Germany:

Active infections: 8,399
Population: 83.8 million
Active infection rate: .01%
1 in 10,000 people is infected there.

USA:

Active infections: 2.26 million
Population: 331.19 million
Active infection rate: 0.68%
1 in 147 people is infected here

.68 / .01 = 68X higher active infection rate in the United States

All data on both active infections and population pulled from:

https://www.worldometers.info

 

[St. Louis Hawk]

Usual suspects usually: American greatness is inherent. We can’t learn anything from other countries, particularly those cheese eating surrender monkeys in Europe. Freedom fries!



Usual suspects now: virus is gonna virus. Oh well. Grandma, you had a good run. We will see you and grandpa in heaven in a few years.

 

[Derekd3408]

Nursing homes should be locked down, bars and indoor dining closed. Online only schools for all levels, no sports at any level. No church services, there should be nothing allowed that creates large gatherings of people.

What about protesting?

 

[33hawkfan]

What about protesting?

What about it?

 

[Derekd3408]

What about it?

You seemed to leave that out of your rant. Do they need to be shut down?

 

[Hoosierhawkeye]

What about protesting?

Well I would have liked for protesting to not be happening but we made a decision to allow a bunch of idiots with guns protest in a lock-down unchallenged. That set a precedent that is very difficult to back out of at this point.

Once you've allowed one group to protest than trying to stop any other group will look blatantly like they are being singled out.

 

[Rudolph]

You seemed to leave that out of your rant. Do they need to be shut down?

Only protestors allowed to tailgate and football. Duh.

 

[hawkeye54545]

Nursing homes should be locked down, bars and indoor dining closed. Online only schools for all levels, no sports at any level. No church services, there should be nothing allowed that creates large gatherings of people.

There are giant pussies who think you are a pussy.

 

[Derekd3408]

Well I would have liked for protesting to not be happening but we made a decision to allow a bunch of idiots with guns protest in a lock-down unchallenged. That set a precedent that is very difficult to back out of at this point.

Once you've allowed one group to protest than trying to stop any other group will look blatantly like they are being singled out.

If you support the shutdown of almost everything, as the person I quoted does, then you need to address protesting. If we are truly terrified of this virus and its spreading, there is no reason not to tell protestors they are taking a mandatory month vacation if they can't stay 6 feet apart and wear a mask. If you dont want to do that, then don't ask business owners to be the scapegoats to make it seem like you care about the virus.

 

[Rifler]

People need to stop picking winners before this thing is over,... New York is going to come around again also...

 

[Hoosierhawkeye]

If you support the shutdown of almost everything, as the person I quoted does, then you need to address protesting. If we are truly terrified of this virus and its spreading, there is no reason not to tell protestors they are taking a mandatory month vacation if they can't stay 6 feet apart and wear a mask. If you dont want to do that, then don't ask business owners to be the scapegoats to make it seem like you care about the virus.

Again I'd like to do that, I would support that except we already crossed the Rubicon on that when we let the anti-lock down protesters go and protest the lock-downs. Trying to enact that now will look like blatant targeting of particular groups.

Now I would argue at this point we could still fairly institute a mask policy that basically says if you are not on your property, in your dwelling, or in your vehicle than you need to be masked. Fines for first time violators, jail for repeat violators.

 

[33hawkfan]

You seemed to leave that out of your rant. Do they need to be shut down?

I don’t think you really understand how protests work but yes there should be no large gatherings until there is a vaccine developed and widely distributed.

 

[ironside1]

Lock the nursing homes down, not the schools.

You play a great Monday morning quarterback but suck at Nostradamus

 

[mcgrawfsu]

If you reopen, yes. That’s why severe restrictions need to be kept in place until there’s a vaccine available in large enough quantities.

lol, never gonna happen

 

[ping72]

There are giant pussies who think you are a pussy.

Guys like Herman Cain?

 

[shank hawk]

 

[Run&Blade]

There will either be a vaccine or herd immunity.

it isn’t going away.

if some country wants to lock itself away like North Korea maybe they will have success.

if a country has open travel, open restaurant and bars, fans in stands at sports, and kids in school as normal then I will be impressed.

 

[SSG T]

Simply fascinating how there never seems to be any interest or appetite for learning from other countries/societies and emulating something they’ve done or or doing that is proven successful.

Duh, because we always do everything better than everyone else. There is no possibility anyone can do anything better than us. We are the best at everything because USA! USA! USA!

 

[cidhawkeye]

Again I'd like to do that, I would support that except we already crossed the Rubicon on that when we let the anti-lock down protesters go and protest the lock-downs. Trying to enact that now will look like blatant targeting of particular groups.

Now I would argue at this point we could still fairly institute a mask policy that basically says if you are not on your property, in your dwelling, or in your vehicle than you need to be masked. Fines for first time violators, jail for repeat violators.

We crossed that line for several things you now choose to close, sports, restaurants, bars. Yet you included those.

 

[Rudolph]

Duh, because we always do everything better than everyone else. There is no possibility anyone can do anything better than us. We are the best at everything because USA! USA! USA!

Self-ribboning culture of self-ribboning.

 

[SSG T]

Self-ribboning culture of self-ribboning.

Ribbons for everyone!!!

 

[Joes Place]

...at least in terms of infection and death rates now struggling to contain it after re-opening:

https://www.cnn.com/2020/08/03/world/coronavirus-second-wave-resurgence-intl/index.html.

Germany, Australia, Japan, etc...

"Struggling"?

None of them have 2-3M outstanding, active cases.

 

[Hoosierhawkeye]

We crossed that line for several things you now choose to close, sports, restaurants, bars. Yet you included those.

How did we cross the line. If we close those things back down again it's not like anyone can say we were picking on them specifically. I'm not talking about shutting down the New England Patriots specifically.

And actually I don't think we need to shut restaurants down just do it entirely via takeout.

 

[haw-key]

Usual suspects usually: American greatness is inherent. We can’t learn anything from other countries, particularly those cheese eating surrender monkeys in Europe. Freedom fries!

View embedded media

Usual suspects now: virus is gonna virus. Oh well. Grandma, you had a good run. We will see you and grandpa in heaven in a few years.

Not to be harsh in the grandma issue but wasn’t that gonna be true no matter?

I mean if you have a 85 yo grandma with heart and lung disease her life expectancy is really quite short anyhow. And if she gets C19 well....

If your grandma you referenced is 60 and no health problems then her life expectancy is greater admittedly but in turn her risk of dying from C19 quite a bit lower....

will there be anecdotes about people that were healthy and in their 40s dying? Probably. But they’ll be quite rare and no I’d expect no different than a normal year where people in their 40s die unexpectedly of something else.

 

[Rudolph]

Ribbons for everyone!!!

We have fallen in love with mythologizing ourselves almost from the very beginning. I can’t remember who it was that argued that because we see ourselves as better than we actually are, we are uniquely prone to failure. Kind of like how people who shoulda known better allowed themselves to believe the Titanic unsinkable.