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Countries Thriving with TRUMP Style Policies

MAGA thinks they’re sitting at the table holding pocket rockets but instead they keep drawing 2-7 every hand. Don’t worry though, this game session is only going to last for 4 years. I’m sure we’ll all be just fine.
 
We're more a "freedom from" country, in the sense that we put fewer obstacles in our way than most. But we're not particularly a "freedom to" country, in the sense of facilitating development and advancement.

The distinction is explored in Timothy Snyder's new book On Freedom. Worth a look.

Ask yourself this: why do people form nations (or migrate to them)? Lots of reasons, of course, but mainly to be better off. Not so much to be left alone as to have opportunity for themselves and their families to have a better life. A healthy nation nurtures an environment that helps with that aim.

It's likely that we will soon be entering into a period where our country will do much less for its people. This will be good for some, but worse for most.

Why do people vote for a country to be worse for most?
In numerous conversations Ive had with immigrants, yes, it's to be better off, but it's also to make something of themselves with lower barriers. For example, freedom from a defined caste system where you can't get out of the economic class you're born in.

We're absolutely a "freedom to" country. Sure regulation, endless administrative burden hold people back (particularly in immigration and healthcare), but even in that environment, all people absolutely have the freedom to succeed.

Define "most." Obamacare made healthcare worse for most, to serve some (it didn't serve the poorest, they already had Medicaid, didn't help the working class, they had insurance through employees that was MUCH cheaper than it is now), but it DID give access to healthcare to those in tough situations. As socialized healthcare always does, it reduces quality for all to enable more access to some (I've lived in Europe, and I know this is NOT a direction we want to go).

America is NOT the most desired country for people to immigrate to because they want to come here and have everything handed to them, but because they want to come make a better life for themselves. Someone who decided to leave everything they've ever known for a chance at making a better life for themselves is more akin to an entrepreneur than a refugee. Keep in mind over 90% of "asylum seekers" don't qualify, because they aren't actually in immediate danger, not to mention they've often just traveled through Mexico from another country, which should be disqualifying in itself, as they should be seeking asylum in Mexico, or the first country they come to.

There are many socialist countries to go live in. None of them have the demand we have from immigrants, and none of them are as good as America. Feel free to disagree, and make any one of those countries your home. I've lived in Europe long enough to appreciate it for the great things it offers, but also long enough to appreciate what we have here in terms of making a permanent life for myself and my family.

So yes, the majority of Americans have absolutely voted for a candidate most likely to be better for most people, just as they should. In this election, a vote for a Democrat would have been a vote for a better life for some to the detriment of most.

I understand where a socialist/ANTIFA supporter might not see it that way, but at no point has the American dream or a strong nation been attractive to that crowd, so that's ok.
 
Along with my standing request for evidence of voter fraud; I’d like a definition of socialism that cons will agree to that doesn’t immediately blow up when social security, Medicare, subsidies, etc get mentioned.
The public ownership of the means of production?

Those are social programs but not socialism in the definitional way. I think one can be against socialism and against the expansion of social programs separately and be consistent.
 
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The public ownership of the means of production?

Those are social programs but not socialism in the definitional way. I think one can be against socialism and against the expansion of social programs separately and be consistent.
Who’s proposing public ownership of the means of production?
 
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Who’s proposing public ownership of the means of production?
What? This was your question below...

" I’d like a definition of socialism that cons will agree to that doesn’t immediately blow up when social security, Medicare, subsidies, etc get mentioned."

I answered your question, that is a definition of socialism that precisely doesnt blow up when discussing social security, Medicare, subsidies, etc.
 
What? This was your question below...

" I’d like a definition of socialism that cons will agree to that doesn’t immediately blow up when social security, Medicare, subsidies, etc get mentioned."

I answered your question, that is a definition of socialism that precisely doesnt blow up when discussing social security, Medicare, subsidies, etc.
And based on your definition, I asked who’s proposing to do that. We just came out of an election where half the ads said that voting for democrat X meant turning America into a socialist country.

As I alluded to in my initial question, what are these socialist policies that are being proposed that we should object to because of where they’d ultimately lead, that didn’t contradict the social programs like social security, Medicare, subsidies etc.

Forgot to thank you for answering that question btw - most posters zipped right past it
 
And based on your definition, I asked who’s proposing to do that. We just came out of an election where half the ads said that voting for democrat X meant turning America into a socialist country.

As I alluded to in my initial question, what are these socialist policies that are being proposed that we should object to because of where they’d ultimately lead, that didn’t contradict the social programs like social security, Medicare, subsidies etc.

Forgot to thank you for answering that question btw - most posters zipped right past it
"Socialism" may be the single most overused word in the English language and at the same time be the least understood.
 
DW (German news in English) is streaming a long piece on Argentina.

DW can be added to your Roku, Fire TV, Apple TV, etc. It's free. And the news coverage is aimed at adults.

Apparently Musk and Milei are friends. Musk is investing in Argentina.
Deus me livre! Que horror!!!!

Brazil is not far behind. No wonder my Brazilian friends want to move to Portugal.
 
Sometimes I overestimate my audience. Thanks for the reminder.

Census Bureau shows how COVID related transfer payments reduced poverty measures (the blue line, measured in millions of people), which then went back up when those unsustainable payments came to end.

After those measures were withdrawn more people were in poverty than before, and the country was much deeper in debt, sending an even larger share of the federal budget to Wall Street in interest payments.
I worked for the census, 2018-2020. Trump shut it down before we could enumerate homeless and transient people.

My boss was fired, a guy replaced her. He said there was not 400 homeless in Tallahassee, it was 40. I kid you not.

Honestly it’s more like 4000.

We never finished the job.
 
How is Brazil similar? They did oust Bolsenaro, after all.
Culturally Brazil and Argentina are very similar. Both have heavy European populations, both had Nazis as well as large pre WW2 German populations. Both have co large Jewish populations. Both have/had a middle class.
 
I worked for the census, 2018-2020. Trump shut it down before we could enumerate homeless and transient people.

My boss was fired, a guy replaced her. He said there was not 400 homeless in Tallahassee, it was 40. I kid you not.

Honestly it’s more like 4000.

We never finished the job.

Homelessness in the Big Bend significantly increased in 2023, mirroring statewide and national trends that point to the greater issue at the forefront of the country's mind.

Last year 801 people were found to be homeless, according to the Big Bend Continuum of Care's Point In Time count. This is roughly a 22% increase from 2022, which recorded 659 people experiencing homelessness.
 
Sometimes I overestimate my audience. Thanks for the reminder.

Census Bureau shows how COVID related transfer payments reduced poverty measures (the blue line, measured in millions of people), which then went back up when those unsustainable payments came to end.

After those measures were withdrawn more people were in poverty than before, and the country was much deeper in debt, sending an even larger share of the federal budget to Wall Street in interest payments.
Thanks for the gratuitous snotty comment. And thanks, too, for explaining what the blue line is on your poorly-labeled chart.

I only need two more things:

1. Where does it show more people in poverty after the aid ran out?

2. The country was slammed by a pandemic. Aid was given, so people were helped. The aid ended and the help went away. But the pandemic was still hurting the economy. So it could be expected that poverty would worsen. So . . . one more time . . . what's your point?
 
Homelessness in the Big Bend significantly increased in 2023, mirroring statewide and national trends that point to the greater issue at the forefront of the country's mind.

Last year 801 people were found to be homeless, according to the Big Bend Continuum of Care's Point In Time count. This is roughly a 22% increase from 2022, which recorded 659 people experiencing homelessness.
Hahaha. I was assigned to this area of the census. I could tell you exactly where they were in the Big Bend, and so could my co-workers.

We were specifically told to stop counting them.

Believe what you want.
 
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How is Brazil similar? They did oust Bolsenaro, after all.
Yes, they got rid of Bolsonaro. He was being harbored in FL, until we wouldn’t give him immunity here. He ran off from Brazil when he was about to be arrested.

But, if you think he’s done, you don’t know Brazil.

I’m in regular communication with my Brazilian family. Also I read O Globo and listen to Rede Globo.

I think I’ve got a handle on what’s going on there.
 
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Culturally Brazil and Argentina are very similar. Both have heavy European populations, both had Nazis as well as large pre WW2 German populations. Both have co large Jewish populations. Both have/had a middle class.
Not how they are similar on general measures. How are they similar on what we are talking about? Trump-like policies, or libertarian policies, or soaring poverty and inflation...?
 
Not how they are similar on general measures. How are they similar on what we are talking about? Trump-like policies, or libertarian policies, or soaring poverty and inflation...?
It’s rare that they don’t have soaring inflation.

They have so many exports that the cover stuff with their exports.

Their problems come from corruption.

Usually their right wing governments are highly corrupt and dictatorial.

But, to really understand, you need to read their history and their literature.

Especially read about Peron.

Most of the problems come from all the wealth being in the hands of .04% of the population. And yes, that is the correct number.
 
Hahaha. I was assigned to this area of the census. I could tell you exactly where they were in the Big Bend, and so could my co-workers.

We were specifically told to stop counting them.

Believe what you want.
I’m not sure that the Tallahassee Democrat carries water for the the Trump administration

Also not sure why the Continuum of Care program would understate the homeless population by 80%.
 
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Thanks for the gratuitous snotty comment.
And thanks, too, for explaining what the blue line is on your poorly-labeled chart.

It’s not my chart, it was made by the bureaucrats at the Census Bureau.

I only need two more things:
1. Where does it show more people in poverty after the aid ran out?

Look at the number on the left side of the blue line and compare it to the number on the right side.

fetchimage


2. The country was slammed by a pandemic. Aid was given, so people were helped. The aid ended and the help went away. But the pandemic was still hurting the economy. So it could be expected that poverty would worsen. So . . . one more time . . . what's your point?

I said that poverty increased after the pandemic, it was disputed, I provided the evidence that led to my conclusion.
 
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I’m not sure that the Tallahassee Democrat carries water for the the Trump administration

Also not sure why the Continuum of Care program would understate the homeless population by 80%.
They don’t do that for the census. Census workers do.

How I was I not clear?
 
They don’t do that for the census. Census workers do.

How I was I not clear?

You said, ‘Honestly it’s more like 4000’.

I responded with CoC’s estimate.
They’re HUD funded, not Census, and I never asserted they were.
I was responding to your estimate.
Maybe they’re undercounting the population they have to serve by 80%, but I don’t know why they would.
 
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Well I have no answers for that. I’m only telling it as I experienced it.

But there are also stats I. Tallahassee as to how many meals they serve at the library on Monday mornings.

Annie has records of how many people she feeds.

Tallahassee is very good about feeding them.
I’ve met a lot of the homeless and fed them when we were at the Plant near RR square. That’s actually how when I was doing the census, I knew where they were.

Frankly I was angry that we didn’t count them. I could take a county map and circle where they all live.
 
Perhaps, but I think "marxist" is the least understood word on this board so that likely is right up there with the general population as well.
“Marxist”…”fascist”….”communist” are too often used for affect as opposed to their true definition and their meaning has been lost to the vast majority here as a result. One of the reasons I love this place. That…. The the idiots here who misuse the “big boy” words. Rico, Gus, and a few others….
 
“Marxist”…”fascist”….”communist” are too often used for affect as opposed to their true definition and their meaning has been lost to the vast majority here as a result. One of the reasons I love this place. That…. The the idiots here who misuse the “big boy” words. Rico, Gus, and a few others….
Agree. I cracked up when I was called all three.

My response was clearly the poster had never studied political philosophy.
 
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