Cruz to introduce bill to bar Syrian refugees

[strummingram]

This is the curse of living in a (more or less) democratic society. Our government acts in our name. Even if we voted for Jill Stein or Bob Barr, we are complicit. Even if we refused to vote, we are complicit. That's the nature of our compact. It's like a credit card agreement: if you choose to exercise your citizenship, you agree to its terms.

Hard for me to imagine that you disagree with this principle.

Similarly, it's hard for me to imaging that you disagree that the US played a big role in creating these refugees. Not that we did it all by ourselves. But we played a part - both in the destabilization of Syria and in the formation of ISIS. And we just keep upping the ante.

So the only question I have is if you think we have any moral obligation to help those we harmed. And, again, it's hard for me to imagine you shirking that responsibility even if, like me, you opposed the policies that got us here.

Well, I'm trying to address it within my limits and my understanding and what my conscience allows. The principle is one thing, the circumstances are different! I conceded (and have insisted) that the US government's foreign policy has greatly contributed to the current state of affairs. It absolutely has. But, I'm also motivated by practical variables, too. It reminds me of De Palma's Scarface. How many Tony Montana's are coming in on this train? If I'm the priest who is confronted with taking-in a recently-paroled Jean Valjean into my home, then the consequences and circumstances are a bit different from what is being posed in this scenario. Maybe the principles ARE the same, but it's not as simple - for ME- to act on them the same way. Other people may die or be injured, not just me.

 

[Huey Grey]

It isn't our responsibility. We can't take care of our responsibilities on our own soil. Yeah...let's bring in more problems. Especially people who will bring nothing to enhance American society. Stop being potatoes. This crap has been going on my entire life. Why bring headaches from the middle east into America. It would just be a stupid thing to do.

Sure we could adopt this attitude, but it runs counter to what this country has believed in for a long time now. Look no further than what the Statue of Liberty says:

“Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free.”

Seems that these refugees exemplify this statement to the letter.

 

[St. Louis Hawk]

On a related note, Cruz has proposed removing the poem from the Statue of Liberty:

Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses, yearning to breath free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore,
Send these, the homeless, tempest tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door.

in favor of "Don't let the door hit you where the good Lord split you."


We really have become a nation of scared pussies. We assisted in breaking the mid-east. We need to assist in fixing it. Bring in a set number of refugees; vet them thoroughly; require they proceed on a path to citizenship; and deport those that screw up this golden opportunity.

 

[NoleSoup4U]

On a related note, Cruz has proposed removing the poem from the Statue of Liberty:

Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses, yearning to breath free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore,
Send these, the homeless, tempest tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door.

in favor of "Don't let the door hit you where the good Lord split you."


We really have become a nation of scared pussies. We assisted in breaking the mid-east. We need to assist in fixing it. Bring in a set number of refugees; vet them thoroughly; require they proceed on a path to citizenship; and deport those that screw up this golden opportunity.

You people need to understand that immigration now is a completely different animal from immigration back then.

 

[Huey Grey]

You people need to understand that immigration now is a completely different animal from immigration back then.

Ever going to get around to explaining why?

 

[NoleSoup4U]

Ever going to get around to explaining why?

I already did in this thread and I just did in the other thread. Patience is a virtue, my son. I didn't see your question until just a minute ago, and even then, I didn't understand how you didn't know what I was talking about.

 

[Huey Grey]

I already did in this thread and I just did in the other thread. Patience is a virtue, my son. I didn't see your question until just a minute ago, and even then, I didn't understand how you didn't know what I was talking about.

Actually you didn't. I just reread every one of your posts in thread.

 

[St. Louis Hawk]

You people need to understand that immigration now is a completely different animal from immigration back then.

Please explain.

 

[NoleSoup4U]

Please explain.

Economic issues and bad foreign policy issues. And Huey, if you couldn't find my post in here, you could have just went over to the other thread. I posted it there too.

 

[lucas80]

The sadly funny thing about this is the Cruz family bio is filled with talk of how they fled persecution in Cuba. What if America had said no thanks to potential infiltrators from Cuba? The door has been wide open to potential Commie infiltrators for years.
The first thing a guy like Cruz does is wrap himself in the US flag before he goes full on sharia against people fleeing for their lives.

 

[rocketclone]

When did Americans become such sniveling pussies? We won't help tens of thousands of people fleeing from war torn areas because we're afraid some bad folks might sneak in with them? Sounds like the same brave thought process that allowed the holocaust. Geez, we don't' want to piss off those Nazi's, they haven't done anything to us yet...let's just stay out of this one. Those people aren't our problem!

You want to know something? Letting women and children suffer won't keep the terrorists from trying to hurt you and until you chicken littles have your way international travel is still pretty easy.

This is a bogus argument. We were not letting Nazi's in, a lot of people we let in were Jewish. The Jewish folks were not attacking anyone. Additionally, the Nazi's wore uniforms, this bunch doesn't.

 

[St. Louis Hawk]

Economic issues and bad foreign policy issues. And Huey, if you couldn't find my post in here, you could have just went over to the other thread. I posted it there too.

I'm sorry, I'm really not trying to be obtuse here, I just don't understand what you are saying. No immigration at all? No immigrants from Syria? So basically, America is full -- grab the last chopper off the embassy -- and then we are pulling up the ladder?

And why do you see the current economic issues as different than those that drove immigration in the late 1800s and early 1900s? What bad foreign policy issues are you referring to?

 

[rocketclone]

The sadly funny thing about this is the Cruz family bio is filled with talk of how they fled persecution in Cuba. What if America had said no thanks to potential infiltrators from Cuba? The door has been wide open to potential Commie infiltrators for years.
The first thing a guy like Cruz does is wrap himself in the US flag before he goes full on sharia against people fleeing for their lives.

Another bogus argument. The Cuban refugees were not sneaking into other countries and blowing things up.

This is a different monster here.

 

[NoleSoup4U]

I'm sorry, I'm really not trying to be obtuse here, I just don't understand what you are saying. No immigration at all? No immigrants from Syria? So basically, America is full -- grab the last chopper off the embassy -- and then we are pulling up the ladder?

And why do you see the current economic issues as different than those that drove immigration in the late 1800s and early 1900s? What bad foreign policy issues are you referring to?

Actually, in my perfect world, we would have open borders. The thing is, in that world there is no government welfare, and in that world we aren't in other countries breeding animosity.

 

[rocketclone]

I'm sorry, I'm really not trying to be obtuse here, I just don't understand what you are saying. No immigration at all? No immigrants from Syria? So basically, America is full -- grab the last chopper off the embassy -- and then we are pulling up the ladder?

And why do you see the current economic issues as different than those that drove immigration in the late 1800s and early 1900s? What bad foreign policy issues are you referring to?

They are not immigrants they are refugees. Immigrants apply to come to the country and their background is checked etc etc.

 

[lucas80]

Another bogus argument. The Cuban refugees were not sneaking into other countries and blowing things up.

This is a different monster here.

You don't know that. Maybe the Castro brothers tried to get spies in this way.

 

[lucas80]

Rick Scott on CNN right now peddling fear. He mentioned the 100 dead in Paris.
100 people probably get murdered every week in Florida.

 

[Tom Paris]

Sure we could adopt this attitude, but it runs counter to what this country has believed in for a long time now. Look no further than what the Statue of Liberty says:

“Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free.”

Seems that these refugees exemplify this statement to the letter.

The problem, again, when that was written America wasn't thinking the Irish, Germans, Swedes, Greeks, etc. were coming over with several of their population who wanted the rest of America dead. Those days are over folks. The only positive anyone can come up with for bringing over refugees from the middle east is that it warms some of your hearts. Otherwise it is a bad idea. A really, really bad idea.

 

[rocketclone]

You don't know that. Maybe the Castro brothers tried to get spies in this way.

Well which is it?? Spies?? Or Terrorist because we are talking 2 different thing there. Spies usually don't blow people up, Terrorists do.

 

[strummingram]

In the 1800's, America hadn't been bombing and meddling in the affairs of Italy, Germany, Ireland, and Russia. The immigration then lacked any potential terrorism like we face here. The immigrants weren't fleeing the circumstances of our military and poor foreign policy for decades.

 

[Huey Grey]

Well which is it?? Spies?? Or Terrorist because we are talking 2 different thing there. Spies usually don't blow people up, Terrorists do.

You ever seen 007?

 

[Huey Grey]

In the 1800's, America hadn't been bombing and meddling in the affairs of Italy, Germany, Ireland, and Russia. The immigration then lacked any potential terrorism like we face here. The immigrants weren't fleeing the circumstances of our military and poor foreign policy for decades.

Not buying it. Our country has a long history of trying to keep immigrants out. From the Irish to the Polish to everyone in between. And just like now, they used similar arguments of immigrants bringing crime, raping our women, and murdering our citizens as reasons to keep them out. Seems to me that if anything, this whole refugee hub-bub has proven that we're just as bigoted as we've ever been.

 

[rocketclone]

Not buying it. Our country has a long history of trying to keep immigrants out. From the Irish to the Polish to everyone in between. And just like now, they used similar arguments of immigrants bringing crime, raping our women, and murdering our citizens as reasons to keep them out. Seems to me that if anything, this whole refugee hub-bub has proven that we're just as bigoted as we've ever been.

They aren't immigrants, they are refugees.

 

[NoleSoup4U]

Rick Scott on CNN right now peddling fear. He mentioned the 100 dead in Paris.
100 people probably get murdered every week in Florida.

I'm not sure why that means we should import more of it.

 

[Huey Grey]

The problem, again, when that was written America wasn't thinking the Irish, Germans, Swedes, Greeks, etc. were coming over with several of their population who wanted the rest of America dead. Those days are over folks. The only positive anyone can come up with for bringing over refugees from the middle east is that it warms some of your hearts. Otherwise it is a bad idea. A really, really bad idea.

And there's where I part ways with you. The terrorists want us dead. The refugees just want a better life. Since these are refugees, they fall under the stirring words written on our own Statue of Liberty.

 

[Jan Itor]

Ha. But are they as dangerous as America's home-grown evangelists?

Anyone know what the mood is in Europe (Germany and other countries) about taking in the Syrian refugees after the attack on Paris, and the report that at least one attacker came in with the refugees?

 

[NoleSoup4U]

Not buying it. Our country has a long history of trying to keep immigrants out. From the Irish to the Polish to everyone in between. And just like now, they used similar arguments of immigrants bringing crime, raping our women, and murdering our citizens as reasons to keep them out. Seems to me that if anything, this whole refugee hub-bub has proven that we're just as bigoted as we've ever been.

You don't see the difference in average immigrants and immigrants coming from countries we are at war with?

 

[NoleSoup4U]

And there's where I part ways with you. The terrorists want us dead. The refugees just want a better life. Since these are refugees, they fall under the stirring words written on our own Statue of Liberty.

Nobody is arguing against that. What we are saying is that you can't tell the difference between the refugees and the militants.

 

[Jan Itor]

And there's where I part ways with you. The terrorists want us dead. The refugees just want a better life. Since these are refugees, they fall under the stirring words written on our own Statue of Liberty.

But of the ones we let in, will all of them be refugees, or will ISIS intermingle with them?

 

[Huey Grey]

They aren't immigrants, they are refugees.

Salient point. Even so, the US has a long history of taking in refugees. From Jews escaping the Nazis, to Europeans escaping Communism, to Indochina, to Cubans, to Vietnamese. We've always taken in refugees. Syrians are really no different.

 

[Huey Grey]

Nobody is arguing against that. What we are saying is that you can't tell the difference between the refugees and the militants.

If they don't kill you they're refugees.

What assurances did we have with all the other groups of refugees we took in? The answer? We didn't. But we took them in anyway. You vet them, you protect them, and you retain the essence of our country's soul. Seems like a square deal to me.

 

[Huey Grey]

But of the ones we let in, will all of them be refugees, or will ISIS intermingle with them?

Where's the proof that any of the refugees taken in so far have been ISIS?

 

[NoleSoup4U]

If they don't kill you they're refugees.

What assurances did we have with all the other groups of refugees we took in? The answer? We didn't. But we took them in anyway. You vet them, you protect them, and you retain the essence of our country's soul. Seems like a square deal to me.

The difference was that we weren't at open war with those other countries. And once again, what about the added economic strain on the poor and middle class?

 

[rocketclone]

Salient point. Even so, the US has a long history of taking in refugees. From Jews escaping the Nazis, to Europeans escaping Communism, to Indochina, to Cubans, to Vietnamese. We've always taken in refugees. Syrians are really no different.

The answer is simple. The states that say they will take them, let them have them. They are responsible to keep them in their states and keep track of them. San Fran wants them in California, send them there. New York is another, send them there.

 

[NoleSoup4U]

Where's the proof that any of the refugees taken in so far have been ISIS?

Come on,dude.

 

[Huey Grey]

Come on,dude.

Well?...

 

[Huey Grey]

The difference was that we weren't at open war with those other countries. And once again, what about the added economic strain on the poor and middle class?

We weren't in open war with the Nazis when we took in the Jews? We weren't in open war with communism when we took in the Europeans? Nice revisionism, there.

 

[Run&Blade]

Is it ok for the families of the Boston marathon bomber victims to not like Muslim immigration or are they pussies too?

It's all so easy until it is your child slaughtered in an incident that could have been avoided if American lives were valued more than immigrants.

 

[THE_DEVIL]

Does anyone in this thread actually know what the process is for taking in the refugees? Because if you don't this entire exercise is a giant waste of time.

 

[NoleSoup4U]

We weren't in open war with the Nazis when we took in the Jews? We weren't in open war with communism when we took in the Europeans? Nice revisionism, there.

No, we weren't at war with Germany when we took in the Jews. By the time we became involved in the wars, almost all the Jews had either fled or were in camps. And the only communist countries we were ever at war with was North Korea and Vietnam, and in the case of the Vietnamese, we took some of them with us when we pulled out and ended the war, hence we weren't at war anymore.