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David Brooks: A Little Reality on Immigration

cigaretteman

HB King
May 29, 2001
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Another insightful column by David:

Donald Trump built his campaign on the promise to build a wall along the Mexican border. The idea is attention-grabbing (and unworkable). But the striking thing is that it’s not too far away from the current Republican orthodoxy.

Not long ago you could be a movement conservative and be for reasonably open immigration policies. Ronald Reagan, Jack Kemp, Steve Forbes and George W. Bush all took open positions on immigration.

But times have changed. Now you prove your conservative credentials by saying you want to deport undocumented aliens. Now you prove it by opposing higher immigration flows. Now Donald Trump brings Republican crowds to their feet by bashing the supposed criminal hordes sneaking up from Mexico.

The problem with this new orthodoxy is that it is completely obsolete. It’s based on a view of immigration that may have reflected 1980s realities, but that has little to do with reality today.


The number of illegal immigrants flowing into this country is dropping, not rising. The flow of total immigrants peaked in 2005 and has been dropping since. The share of immigrants coming from Latin America is falling sharply. Since 2008, more immigrants have come from Asia than Latin America, and the disparity is growing.

There are more Mexicans leaving the United States than coming in. According to the Pew Research Center, there was a net outflow of 140,000 from 2009 to 2014. If Trump builds his wall, he’ll lock more Mexican immigrants in than he’ll keep out.

Trump plays up the alleged threat of crime committed by immigrants. But the overall evidence is clear. Immigrants make American streets safer. Roughly 1.6 percent of immigrant males between ages 18 and 39 wind up incarcerated, compared with 3.3 percent of native-born American men of the same age. Among native-born men without a high school diploma, about 11 percent are incarcerated. Among similarly educated Mexican, Guatemalan and Salvadoran men here, only 2 or 3 percent get incarcerated.

One study of 103 cities between 1994 and 2004 found that violent crime rates decreased as the concentration of immigrants increased. Numerous studies have shown that a big share of the drop in crime rates in the 1990s is a result of the surge in immigration.

Trump plays up the threat of terrorism. But the real threat is that our border agencies spend so much time tracking down people who want to be gardeners that they don’t have the resources to track down the people who want to be suicide bombers. Fighting terrorism by going after the whole swath of immigration policy is like fighting germs with a sledgehammer.

There’s a reason Republicans from Reagan to Bush supported reasonably open immigration policies. They are and have always been good for America.

A new summary of the research from the National Academies of Sciences, Engineering and Medicine found that immigrants are integrating into society as well as ever. The bulk of the evidence shows that immigrants have a hugely positive effect on total American G.D.P. while having little effect on overall wages. The surge in Asian immigration will bring a gigantic number of highly skilled people, who end up with higher education levels than the American average, higher productivity levels and higher incomes.

So why is the Trump message selling? Well, economic growth has been slow and wages have been stagnant (mostly because technology is displacing workers). Government is dysfunctional and the immigration issue has become a symbol for how elites are out of touch with the mainstream.


But mostly it’s the clash of two trends: the graying of the G.O.P. and the browning of America. The Republican primary base is more and more made up of older people, who have significantly more negative views about immigration. Second, by 2044, America will be a majority-minority country. This is a very different America than the one people who grew up in the 1960s were used to. It’s a historical transformation that is bound to raise very legitimate concerns.

The way for Republicans to address these concerns, though, is not to build a wall and treat immigrants as suspicious alien invaders. It’s to work on our legal immigration system — make the system ample and streamlined enough so that most people come here in the right way, in a way they can be vetted.

Admit more skilled immigrants and fewer unskilled ones. This would be a giant boon to the economy over all. It would make our immigration policies less geared to serving the elites — giving them ample supplies of nannies and nail polishers. Reducing the supply of unskilled immigrants may do something to raise the wages of unskilled natives and ease their legitimate concerns.

Donald Trump’s G.O.P. is a rear-window party pining for a white America that is never coming back. Ronald Reagan’s G.O.P., and maybe some future G.O.P., will fix the immigration system and attract the people who will make the country innovative, dynamic and interesting for decades to come.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/02/19/opinion/a-little-reality-on-immigration.html?ref=opinion
 
Since 2008, more immigrants have come from Asia than Latin America, and the disparity is growing.
OH NO!!!!!!

We built that amazing moat (the Pacific Ocean) and the yellow hordes are still coming.

Why would anyone think a mere wall would work if an ocean doesn't?

I'm voting for the candidate who will build a dome over America. We can pump the pollution out and live safe and free in our bubble.
 
There are more Mexicans leaving the United States than coming in. According to the Pew Research Center, there was a net outflow of 140,000 from 2009 to 2014. If Trump builds his wall, he’ll lock more Mexican immigrants in than he’ll keep out.
Are they SNEAKING OUT?

Damn wetbacks. How dare they sneak in, do work, and sneak back out.

I mean the only way a wall would lock Mexican immigrants in is if they are sneaking out. If they are leaving by legit ways, they wouldn't be locked in.
 
The takeaway from his piece ought to be the part about crime - immigrants are LESS CRIMINAL than "real" Americans - and that overreaction to illegal immigration HURTS THE FIGHT AGAINST TERRORISM.

I'll bet there are some factors that he's glossed over in those narratives, but those are definitely points worth discussing.
 
In case anyone is wondering, David Brooks is my favorite conservative. I mean who doesn't like the Cheerful Chipmunk of Conservatism?

But as likable as he is, you have to remember that he has an agenda. Sometimes several. At least one is to support Rubio - the candidate he's been backing for quite a while now. Another - always - is to support corporations. So you have to look at articles like this as vehicles to help Rubio and businesses.

Don't get me wrong, supporting Rubio and businesses isn't a war crime. He's entitled to his slant. But he definitely has a slant.
 
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"But mostly it’s the clash of two trends: the graying of the G.O.P. and the browning of America. The Republican primary base is more and more made up of older people, who have significantly more negative views about immigration. Second, by 2044, America will be a majority-minority country. This is a very different America than the one people who grew up in the 1960s were used to."

I was going to say that this is probably a pretty scary article for many cons on this board, but my guess is that they either won't read it, or will call David Brooks a Lib hack.
 
The problem with this new orthodoxy is that it is completely obsolete. It’s based on a view of immigration that may have reflected 1980s realities, but that has little to do with reality today.

Raise your hand if you're shocked that Rs ignore reality.
 
Raise your hand if you're shocked that Rs ignore reality.
How is the fact that more Mexicans are leaving than coming, along with the fact that the crime rates for immigrants are lower than American born citizens, not widely reported and discussed? How is it not a debate question?
 
How is the fact that more Mexicans are leaving than coming, along with the fact that the crime rates for immigrants are lower than American born citizens, not widely reported and discussed? How is it not a debate question?

Isn't being here illegally.... I don't know... Illegal?

That would make their crime rate 100%.

If you didn't bias the data.
 
How is the fact that more Mexicans are leaving than coming, along with the fact that the crime rates for immigrants are lower than American born citizens, not widely reported and discussed? How is it not a debate question?
Because our "liberal" media is really a corporation that makes money selling conflict and calamities to pull eyeballs for advertising. The notion that the problems aren't so bad and life is good isn't going to get people to sit still and pay attention.
 
Isn't being here illegally.... I don't know... Illegal?

That would make their crime rate 100%.

If you didn't bias the data.
But the narrative is that they are dangerous. This stat is accurate in determining the validity of that charge by not counting the crime of simply being here.
 
But the narrative is that they are dangerous. This stat is accurate in determining the validity of that charge by not counting the crime of simply being here.
the thing that is dangerous is they are fine working for $7 an hour, so Bernie's $15 an hour bullcrap means nothing to them, that's the danger: that the labour party won't be able to gain ground with them
 
But the narrative is that they are dangerous. This stat is accurate in determining the validity of that charge by not counting the crime of simply being here.

The stat on which?

Legal immigrants, or illegal immigrants?

They are being lumped together here.
 
I think we should deport the illegals after we publicly hang one of the thieving banksters who robbed the nation this nation blind a few years ago. Then send all the illegals back home. But, not until we deal with just ONE citizen that robbed us ("we the people") blind in the name of profit.
I think you may be on to something here. But let me suggest a slight alteration. How about we just swap the two groups? Send all the bankers to Guatemala and put all the illegals on corporate boards.
 
I think you may be on to something here. But let me suggest a slight alteration. How about we just swap the two groups? Send all the bankers to Guatemala and put all the illegals on corporate boards.
Can they expand the capacity at Guantanamo? Guatemala doesn't deserve that! And I think having a few illegals on BoD's is quite an American idea! Atleast the graft and bonuses would go to folks who might spend the money.
 
Can they expand the capacity at Guantanamo? Guatemala doesn't deserve that! And I think having a few illegals on BoD's is quite an American idea! Atleast the graft and bonuses would go to folks who might spend the money.
I was thinking of that old meme about how you could take a successful person and drop them at the bottom and they would climb back to the top. So if that's true, Guatemala would seem a good test.
 
I was thinking of that old meme about how you could take a successful person and drop them at the bottom and they would climb back to the top. So if that's true, Guatemala would seem a good test.
If they are as good as they say natural.....shit, send them to Syria....Show me a success story and how they did it all by themselves.
 
I think we should deport the illegals after we publicly hang one of the thieving banksters who robbed the nation this nation blind a few years ago. Then send all the illegals back home. But, not until we deal with just ONE citizen that robbed us ("we the people") blind in the name of profit.
ok, let us start with the rothschilds, who rule Obama and goldman sachs
 
"Immigrants make American streets safer."

how dumb does that author think his readers are?

he must know that low IQ, low information liberals will lap up this lunacy hook, line, and sinker in order to push an anti-white, anti-American agenda.

Seriously though, how stupid do you think we are?
 
Isn't being here illegally.... I don't know... Illegal?

That would make their crime rate 100%.

If you didn't bias the data.

Merely a detail.

Why do liberals hate the rule of law?

First we all should ignore immigration laws, next Republicans must confirm Obamas nomination and follow "the law."

pick and choose, I guess?
 
how is the illegal drug trade tied to illegal immigrants? from what i understand, it is significant.

all the death, addiction, and misery caused by drugs brought in by illegals is another aspect of our open border policy of this administration and the democratic party in general.

thanks for helping to ruin the lives of millions of people each year liberals.
 
"Roughly 1.6 percent of immigrant males between ages 18 and 39 wind up incarcerated, compared with 3.3 percent of native-born American men of the same age."

As stated in the OP, these immigrants are half as likely to be convicted and imprisoned as the US population at large. Contrary to what the leading Republican candidate for president would have you believe, there is not a wave of murderers and rapists pouring over the border.
 
"Roughly 1.6 percent of immigrant males between ages 18 and 39 wind up incarcerated, compared with 3.3 percent of native-born American men of the same age."

As stated in the OP, these immigrants are half as likely to be convicted and imprisoned as the US population at large. Contrary to what the leading Republican candidate for president would have you believe, there is not a wave of murderers and rapists pouring over the border.

So the relativist logic convinces you that the murders and rapes that are committed are fine because they happen at a lower rate, supposedly, than native born Americans. The fact that any are committed at all doesn't seem to bother you.

I know children that wouldn't be duped by fuzzy statistics so easily.
 
So the relativist logic convinces you that the murders and rapes that are committed are fine because they happen at a lower rate, supposedly, than native born Americans. The fact that any are committed at all doesn't seem to bother you.

I know children that wouldn't be duped by fuzzy statistics so easily.

The fuzziness isn't in the statistics.
StrawMan.jpg
 
The fuzziness isn't in the statistics.
StrawMan.jpg

Oh so you went through and fact checked all the stats referenced? doubtful.

here is a passage from the article referenced:

"The first type uses Census and American Community Survey (ACS) data from the institutionalized population and broadly concludes that immigrants are less crime prone than the native-born population. It is important to note that immigrants convicted of crimes serve their sentences before being deported with few exceptions. However, there are some potential problems with Census-based studies that could lead to inaccurate results."


They are referencing a god-damned SURVEY!

Are you shitting me?

Worse yet:

"However, there are some potential problems with Census-based studies that could lead to inaccurate results."

Not a problem for you though, is it?

it would take the reader a minimal amount of critical thinking to refute and reject this non-sense opinion piece but luckily for the author he knows his readership is too stupid and vapid to understand statistics or how they can be misinterpreted.
 
illegal takes a survey:

Have you or any of your family members committed serious crimes while illegally in the USA?

A) Yes.
B) No.

Hmmmmmmmm I'm gonna go with B.

Liberal report: "Thorough Study Finds Illegals Don't Commit Serious Crimes."

Liberals nod their heads in agreement with the "findings"...See told ya so silly conservatives!
 
Do these statistic reference all immigrants or just illegal immigrants?

The survey references "immigrants."

Well of course legal immigrants follow the law they are on the grid and get their benefits or rights to live and work here revoked if they break the law. They have incentive to be law abiding.

Conservatives aren't talking about them!

But of course the author knows his readership is too stupid to make this diefferentiation in the argument about illegal immigration. Includes them to muddy the picture and deceive you into thinking immigrants aren't a problem.

Try and go to any border communities in CA, AZ, NM or TX and convince them illegals in their communities will "MAKE THEM SAFER."


Hahahaha!
 
yeah hi there Texas landowner, yeah we know drug mules and human trafficking is going on your property but yeah we have this survery here that says they are safe. So have a nice day.
 
"Roughly 1.6 percent of immigrant males between ages 18 and 39 wind up incarcerated, compared with 3.3 percent of native-born American men of the same age."

As stated in the OP, these immigrants are half as likely to be convicted and imprisoned as the US population at large. Contrary to what the leading Republican candidate for president would have you believe, there is not a wave of murderers and rapists pouring over the border.

Your data is watered down by law abiding legal immigrants.

No one has an issue with them.

Cut them out and show the crime rate for illegals.
 
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