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Democrats: what would it take for you to start questioning the legitimacy of this past election?

Carter Center Electoral Expert Mission Concludes Assessment and Issues Initial Key Findings​


Nov. 4, 2022
  • Voting technology: Brazil’s use of a pure direct recording electronic machine design places the onus of results integrity on the voting software. The TSE has provided an extensive set of audit procedures to address this. Responding to suggestions of auditors in previous electoral processes, the courts have successively increased the scope of these audits and reduced restrictions for auditors. The current iteration, which incorporates different university security expert teams that examine the complete system using their own tools in their own environments, without time limits, is the most permissive to date.

So, voting machines are reliable and beyond reproach?
 
So, voting machines are reliable and beyond reproach?
No. All voting hardware should be open source, and independently reviewed by multiple auditors.

That's why:

"The TSE has provided an extensive set of audit procedures to address this. Responding to suggestions of auditors in previous electoral processes, the courts have successively increased the scope of these audits and reduced restrictions for auditors. The current iteration, which incorporates different university security expert teams that examine the complete system using their own tools in their own environments, without time limits, is the most permissive to date."
 
No. All voting hardware should be open source, and independently reviewed by multiple auditors.

That's why:

"The TSE has provided an extensive set of audit procedures to address this. Responding to suggestions of auditors in previous electoral processes, the courts have successively increased the scope of these audits and reduced restrictions for auditors. The current iteration, which incorporates different university security expert teams that examine the complete system using their own tools in their own environments, without time limits, is the most permissive to date."
And how do you think you're going to get 50 states to agree to adopt 1 universal voting hardware system?
 
Democrats: after spending years railing on Trump Republicans for questioning the results of the last election, I’m really curious how much it would take for people to start doing the same thing and not feel really dirty and hypocritical about it.

There is definitely smoke about some really odd election results, which I am not saying are true or that I believe, but I just started wondering in my own mind at what point, if this starts looking legitimate, would I feel comfortable calling it into question.

What are your thoughts? Where is your line?
Democrats as a Party, are not Republicans. The election is over. We ain’t gonna piss and moan about something that is finished…..we are not Donald Trump.

I am more curious about the Trump claims before Election Day that “Pennsylvania was crooked as hell” with their early vote…..When is Donald going to investigate the skullduggery he suspected there?

As far as I have seen or heard, the only elections being contested are the really close ones, where “recounts” are automatic if the margins are small.
 
Democrats as a Party, are not Republicans. The election is over. We ain’t gonna piss and moan about something that is finished…..we are not Donald Trump.

I am more curious about the Trump claims before Election Day that “Pennsylvania was crooked as hell” with their early vote…..When is Donald going to investigate the skullduggery he suspected there?

As far as I have seen or heard, the only elections being contested are the really close ones, where “recounts” are automatic if the margins are small.
Yeah the biggest difference is Trump was the one leading the charge on claims of election fraud. Kamala and the rest of the Dem leadership, to my knowledge, have made no such claims themselves.
 
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Yeah the biggest difference is Trump was the one leading the charge on claims of election fraud. Kamala and the rest of the Dem leadership, to my knowledge, have made no such claims themselves.
I think that is what I said……anyway, I am waiting for trump to open up his investigation of voter fraud in Pennsylvania, since he hade the accusation.
 
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Unlike MAGA I actually believe our civil servants are doing their job. I have no reason to doubt the result and quite frankly it would take thousands of people to pull something like that off nationwide…and they would all keep it secret? Yeah right.

Stay sane dems. No reason to join the right wing conspiracy nutbags.
That's why Maga is so stupid. Information bubble idiots.
 
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Giuliani was a distraction. Like the pretty magician's assistant.

This was obviously the work of Mike Flynn and John McAfee.

Congrats, you found some gullible dumbass Harris voters. Come back to us when it is the major party candidate, and all their minions claiming the election was stolen.

Again, foreign adversaries are going to try to sow lies and conspiracies to create further division. Harris voters will hopefully (mostly) be smart enough to see through that. Harris lost because of many factors, voter fraud was not one of them.
 
I WAS RIGHT, AND I TOLD YOU SO!!!

Ok, that felt good. I said all along the losing side would cry foul. They are. You told me NO, only Trumpers do that (forgetting 2016 happened)

It's just how it's going to be until someone wants to shore up the process so everyone can be confident in it. 2016, 2020, and 2024 all see the losers crying foul.
 
I WAS RIGHT, AND I TOLD YOU SO!!!

Ok, that felt good. I said all along the losing side would cry foul. They are. You told me NO, only Trumpers do that (forgetting 2016 happened)

It's just how it's going to be until someone wants to shore up the process so everyone can be confident in it. 2016, 2020, and 2024 all see the losers crying foul.
bOtH sIdES!%!!

So you're comparing randos who might be fakes to the Republican party apparatus and leaders not just claiming fraud but committing crimes and trying to overthrow an election? Who in the Democratic party is claiming fraud and engaging in the types of litigation and rabble-rousing that occurred after the 2020 election? Who is an equivalent even to a Mike Lindell?

The election was very similar to 2020 although Biden won by a much larger popular vote margin, and the Democratic party and its leaders have accepted the results.

Just so full of shit.
 
I WAS RIGHT, AND I TOLD YOU SO!!!

Ok, that felt good. I said all along the losing side would cry foul. They are. You told me NO, only Trumpers do that (forgetting 2016 happened)

It's just how it's going to be until someone wants to shore up the process so everyone can be confident in it. 2016, 2020, and 2024 all see the losers crying foul.

Give me a break. A handful of irrelevant idiots is a "both sides" issue. It's going to happen and any "prediction" is like predicting the sun will rise in the east.

What we saw in 2020, and what we would be seeing right now if Trump had lost, is not even similar. The number of people complaining would be 1000x this, the volume would be 1000x this, and it would include the party leader and most of the GOP at the highest level. At some level in your brain you certainly know this. At some point you have to stop trying to make everything a false equivalence and admit the GOP is broken.
 
The election deniers are already in full election denying panic. Elon Musk is the new putin. It's actually hilarious to watch their behavior.
 
Give me a break. A handful of irrelevant idiots is a "both sides" issue. It's going to happen and any "prediction" is like predicting the sun will rise in the east.

What we saw in 2020, and what we would be seeing right now if Trump had lost, is not even similar. The number of people complaining would be 1000x this, the volume would be 1000x this, and it would include the party leader and most of the GOP at the highest level. At some level in your brain you certainly know this. At some point you have to stop trying to make everything a false equivalence and admit the GOP is broken.
Its not comparable because dems were way worse with the lies in 2016. Plus 2020 was actually rife with fraud from mail in ballots.
 
It's just how it's going to be until someone wants to shore up the process so everyone can be confident in it.

And btw, this is stupid AF. The process is damn secure and accurate. It's only because people like you, led by your orange leader, keep insisting that there is massive fraud that anyone is deluded into thinking our elections are suspect. They are not. And this is not a "BOTH SIDES" issue; the GOP has a near-monopoly on that foolishness.
 
I WAS RIGHT, AND I TOLD YOU SO!!!

Ok, that felt good. I said all along the losing side would cry foul. They are. You told me NO, only Trumpers do that (forgetting 2016 happened)

It's just how it's going to be until someone wants to shore up the process so everyone can be confident in it. 2016, 2020, and 2024 all see the losers crying foul.

Every election since the beginning of time, you could find somebody who believed it was rigged.

Let's see how widespread these beliefs become including at the top levels.
 
I WAS RIGHT, AND I TOLD YOU SO!!!

Ok, that felt good. I said all along the losing side would cry foul. They are. You told me NO, only Trumpers do that (forgetting 2016 happened)

It's just how it's going to be until someone wants to shore up the process so everyone can be confident in it. 2016, 2020, and 2024 all see the losers crying foul.
Way to make the biggest both sides stretch of all time comparing a twitter fool named “shell shock” (who is probably working at a Russian troll farm) to the literal President of the United States.

Very equivalent levels of crying foul.

Just look on HBOT: by my count we have one poster who is exploring the idea the election was stolen but is not convinced. The rest of the Harris voters are saying it wasn’t. But in 2020 the MAGA loonies were out in force on here amplifying Trump’s message and were unanimous in their certainty that there was massive fraud which has never been proven.

MAGA is crazy all the way to their core. The dems have a few morons.
 
Way to make the biggest both sides stretch of all time comparing a twitter fool named “shell shock” (who is probably working at a Russian troll farm) to the literal President of the United States.

Very equivalent levels of crying foul.

Just look on HBOT: by my count we have one poster who is exploring the idea the election was stolen but is not convinced. The rest of the Harris voters are saying it wasn’t. But in 2020 the MAGA loonies were out in force on here amplifying Trump’s message and were unanimous in their certainty that there was massive fraud which has never been proven.

MAGA is crazy all the way to their core. The dems have a few morons.
Hell, this week we have idiots still claiming 2020 was rigged.
 
All of this can be made simpler as any election involving mail in ballots, drop boxes, and voting machines connected to internet should never be allowed.

Election day holiday
In person
Voter ID
Paper Ballots

Mail per application- military, sick, elderly, etc.
 
All of this can be made simpler as any election involving mail in ballots, drop boxes, and voting machines connected to internet should never be allowed.

Election day holiday
In person
Voter ID
Paper Ballots

Mail per application- military, sick, elderly, etc.
1) I'm not aware of voting machines that are connected to the internet...period. If that's wrong, please correct me.
2) mail in ballots have their own validation process. There's no need to end a voting option just because you don't like it.
3) drop boxes I believe (or at least in some cases) are either kept in fairly public places where tampering with them would be noticed in short order and/or have cameras on them. There's again no need to eliminate this.
 
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1) I'm not aware of voting machines that are connected to the internet...period. If that's wrong, please correct me.
2) mail in ballots have their own validation process. There's no need to end a voting option just because you don't like it.
3) drop boxes I believe (or at least in some cases) are either kept in fairly public places where tampering with them would be noticed in short order and/or have cameras on them. There's again no need to eliminate this.
You may be 1000% correct that there have been no shannagins BUT...public perception is that these are things are not fully trusted. I think it would go a long way in public perception and trust.
 
Democrats: after spending years railing on Trump Republicans for questioning the results of the last election, I’m really curious how much it would take for people to start doing the same thing and not feel really dirty and hypocritical about it.

There is definitely smoke about some really odd election results, which I am not saying are true or that I believe, but I just started wondering in my own mind at what point, if this starts looking legitimate, would I feel comfortable calling it into question.

What are your thoughts? Where is your line?

Proof beyond a reasonable doubt. Not just speculation about how it could have happened or might have happened. I need proof that it DID happen.

There is no evidence the election results are not valid just like there was no evidence that the election results in 2020 were not valid.
 
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You may be 1000% correct that there have been no shannagins BUT...public perception is that these are things are not fully trusted. I think it would go a long way in public perception and trust.
There's a reason public perception has been shaped that way. That reason is the Republican Party. They continue to question election integrity without ever providing evidence of shenanigans. You can't rebuild public trust in a process if one of the two major parties doesn't stop.

And for the record - neither I, nor any other poster defending the process have been 1000% foolproof. It's not. every election cycle when states do their postmortems and the like, a handful will always be found. The key point is that that handful has been historically insignificant and not rampant like republicans allege.

This honestly isn't dissimilar to the public perception that republicans have sold that the economy is failing. It's not. Time and again most economic metrics show the US economy to be in a good place overall. Not perfect of course, high prices in particular continue to be a problem, but if you watched only Fox News you'd think we were in the midst of a new Great Depression. Not the least of the reasons Harris lost is because they weren't able to effectively combat that narrative.
 
I WAS RIGHT, AND I TOLD YOU SO!!!

Ok, that felt good. I said all along the losing side would cry foul. They are. You told me NO, only Trumpers do that (forgetting 2016 happened)

It's just how it's going to be until someone wants to shore up the process so everyone can be confident in it. 2016, 2020, and 2024 all see the losers crying foul.
Thanks for opening your mouth and confirming just how stupid you are.
 
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Nothing. Been seeing a lot of breathless conspiracy theories on Threads about hacking into how machines send data but the reality is the data is so wide spread such a hack would be impossible since results were fairly consistent access the US.

The reality is, that this was a pretty shocking beat down not due to hacking but rather due to our country across a broad range of socio economic demographics not being ready to vote for a black woman candidate for POTUS. Which is why like in 2020 she would not have won a real primary.
You still do t get it. It’s sad that you think Kamala didn’t win becasue she’s a women and a minority. Maybe it’s a Kamala problem and not a female problem. Glad your party can now define what a woman is, two weeks ago they couldn’t.

I bet you think the 1-8 FSU record has nothing to do with coaching.
 
There's a reason public perception has been shaped that way. That reason is the Republican Party. They continue to question election integrity without ever providing evidence of shenanigans. You can't rebuild public trust in a process if one of the two major parties doesn't stop.

And for the record - neither I, nor any other poster defending the process have been 1000% foolproof. It's not. every election cycle when states do their postmortems and the like, a handful will always be found. The key point is that that handful has been historically insignificant and not rampant like republicans allege.

This honestly isn't dissimilar to the public perception that republicans have sold that the economy is failing. It's not. Time and again most economic metrics show the US economy to be in a good place overall. Not perfect of course, high prices in particular continue to be a problem, but if you watched only Fox News you'd think we were in the midst of a new Great Depression. Not the least of the reasons Harris lost is because they weren't able to effectively combat that narrative.
I just think it is smarter for our republic going forward to do a few of those election changes. At the very least we should have traceable paper ballots and voter ID in all 50 states imo.

On your last paragraph, I actually totally agree with you. The economy is not in a terrible place right now but I think the problem is that it hasn't moved the pricing of items yet. People are still feeling the "pain" on the ground to a degree even though the metrics are going in the right direction.
 
I just think it is smarter for our republic going forward to do a few of those election changes. At the very least we should have traceable paper ballots and voter ID in all 50 states imo.

On your last paragraph, I actually totally agree with you. The economy is not in a terrible place right now but I think the problem is that it hasn't moved the pricing of items yet. People are still feeling the "pain" on the ground to a degree even though the metrics are going in the right direction.
The macro numbers are good. But a lot of people feel left out of that growth. This is a long running issue with most of the economic growth going to a smaller number of individuals. I also wonder if social media is an exacerbating factor. People see things on social media and wonder why they are getting the same success.
 
I think that is what I said……anyway, I am waiting for trump to open up his investigation of voter fraud in Pennsylvania, since he hade the accusation.
Right I wasn’t disputing what you said. I was just expanding about Trump specifically leading the conspiracies of fraud in 2020, while this year it’s some idiots on TikTok spreading these claims, but Kamala is not.
 
Democrats: after spending years railing on Trump Republicans for questioning the results of the last election, I’m really curious how much it would take for people to start doing the same thing and not feel really dirty and hypocritical about it.

There is definitely smoke about some really odd election results, which I am not saying are true or that I believe, but I just started wondering in my own mind at what point, if this starts looking legitimate, would I feel comfortable calling it into question.

What are your thoughts? Where is your line?
Democrats should be questioning the legitimacy, but not in the way you are posting. They should be asking how Biden got pushed out and Kamala was anointed.
 
Democrats should be questioning the legitimacy, but not in the way you are posting. They should be asking how Biden got pushed out and Kamala was anointed.
No. Democrats should be questioning how anyone in their right mind supported Joe announcing his candidacy in the first place. I think the election was lost the day he began his 2nd term campaign. He stood no shot of being mentally viable for a 2nd term and very long odds to beat the GOP.
 
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