Lol -- everything is political.
I only advocate that alternative uniforms be allowed. Maybe it wouldn't catch on. I suspect it would catch on quickly, because kids prefer them.
Ditch the singlet article
- Thread starter so cal hawkfan
- Start date
Lol -- everything is political.
I only advocate that alternative uniforms be allowed. Maybe it wouldn't catch on. I suspect it would catch on quickly, because kids prefer them.
Prove to me us they do beside some story about you running a club for ten years and a couple kids making an excuse for not really wanting to wrestle. I know in our community club every kid is excited when the new singlets come. Everything is political because adults are making kids too dang sensitive these days. To you flo and TR Foley be New Jerseys voice not mine we don't share the same beliefs.
Simple have a vote nation wide and don't cry over the results. I won't.
Let me say while I don't think the option would "save" wrestling and there would automatically be a influx of a million new wrestlers but I've been coaching for 20 years and think it should definitely be an option. For the record I think I would be against this early in my career for many of the reasons others have posted.
That being said, we all know numbers have been on the decline, like it or not...kids are more "self conscience" these days, and fight shorts and a compression shirt are "cool & accepted" by the mainstream. I think what some fail to understand is we're trying to recruit "new" middle school and high school freshman to the sport, not kids that have grown up wrestling through the kids club programs. Hell those kids could care less b/c they are already in the "culture". We're talking kids who have never stepped on the mat before and that's a harder sell. As many have stated, today's kids are different, in general they aren't as "tough minded", the work ethic has declined, they are freaking soft!! The educational system is largely failing them in teaching them about discipline and consequences, let alone work ethic. I honestly tell my wrestlers that our program/sport is the place they are going to learn these things, "real life" things.
I have many kids tell me every year they aren't wrestling b/c of the singlet and I know most hs kids are just using it as an excuse...so not much lost there. But I coach middle school football and recruit the crap out of those kids and a ton of kids tell me the singlet excuse and I think a much larger percentage of those kids are being serious. If they could wear shorts and a compression shirt, I think there would be an increase for sure. Grabbing 10 more kids per grade level down there would help a ton for my program. And I'm sure I'd lose some b/c they get in there and it's too hard or whatever but I'd still have more kids in the long run....and more importantly more kids would gain what all of us have gained from the sport. What would it really hurt to "take the excuse" away once and for all? I'm telling you we would gain numbers but we don't know how many until we try. You know what's going to happen anyway is that once they are in high school or have wrestled a year they will all be wanting to wear the singlet again because it's "cool". It's simple, let it be an option and see what happens, it won't hurt the sport.
And someone mentioned that the option was tried out several years ago. That was at the college level and was never approved by the NFHS so we didn't get a chance to try it out. Plus those uniforms were still all compression, so you basically had a singlet with sleeves worn by guys that were already invested in the sport and could care less.
All you guys that are totally against it,think for a moment of how weak minded society is today and realize that this might be the chance to "save" a few young minds and show them what our sport is all about and all that it can teach them...thus putting a few more "tough" guys back into society to try and "make America great again".
Again, I realize it's not going to save the sport and there are bigger issues but why not take this shot if we can?
Take the damn shot, you might score...you sure the hell ain't gonna score just dancing around handfighting.
That being said, we all know numbers have been on the decline, like it or not...kids are more "self conscience" these days, and fight shorts and a compression shirt are "cool & accepted" by the mainstream. I think what some fail to understand is we're trying to recruit "new" middle school and high school freshman to the sport, not kids that have grown up wrestling through the kids club programs. Hell those kids could care less b/c they are already in the "culture". We're talking kids who have never stepped on the mat before and that's a harder sell. As many have stated, today's kids are different, in general they aren't as "tough minded", the work ethic has declined, they are freaking soft!! The educational system is largely failing them in teaching them about discipline and consequences, let alone work ethic. I honestly tell my wrestlers that our program/sport is the place they are going to learn these things, "real life" things.
I have many kids tell me every year they aren't wrestling b/c of the singlet and I know most hs kids are just using it as an excuse...so not much lost there. But I coach middle school football and recruit the crap out of those kids and a ton of kids tell me the singlet excuse and I think a much larger percentage of those kids are being serious. If they could wear shorts and a compression shirt, I think there would be an increase for sure. Grabbing 10 more kids per grade level down there would help a ton for my program. And I'm sure I'd lose some b/c they get in there and it's too hard or whatever but I'd still have more kids in the long run....and more importantly more kids would gain what all of us have gained from the sport. What would it really hurt to "take the excuse" away once and for all? I'm telling you we would gain numbers but we don't know how many until we try. You know what's going to happen anyway is that once they are in high school or have wrestled a year they will all be wanting to wear the singlet again because it's "cool". It's simple, let it be an option and see what happens, it won't hurt the sport.
And someone mentioned that the option was tried out several years ago. That was at the college level and was never approved by the NFHS so we didn't get a chance to try it out. Plus those uniforms were still all compression, so you basically had a singlet with sleeves worn by guys that were already invested in the sport and could care less.
All you guys that are totally against it,think for a moment of how weak minded society is today and realize that this might be the chance to "save" a few young minds and show them what our sport is all about and all that it can teach them...thus putting a few more "tough" guys back into society to try and "make America great again".
Again, I realize it's not going to save the sport and there are bigger issues but why not take this shot if we can? Take the damn shot, you might score...you sure the hell ain't gonna score just dancing around handfighting.
The best comment I've seen so far on this issue. Actually I think most of you are hung up on "growing" the sport. I'm guessing that far more youths are wrestling now than 40, 30, 20 years ago. Of course we've lost many college programs since Title IX, but is youth wrestling really having a crisis of participation?
http://www.nwcaonline.com/nwcawebsi...nt-library/male-participation_16.pdf?sfvrsn=0
These are hs numbers.
These are hs numbers.
This recent article states wrestling at the youth level has lost 42% since 2009? Good God I wouldn't think it was that much.
http://www.engagesports.com/blog/post/1488/youth-sports-participation-statistics-and-trends
http://www.engagesports.com/blog/post/1488/youth-sports-participation-statistics-and-trends
So has just about anything that requires getting off your ass and away from a video game. Seriously, the participation rates just in my hometown from local leagues of all kind of sports is astounding. Mindblowing really. The only thing that has risen is Soccer, and that's because any number is higher than Zero.
I guess it's a good thing we have drones instead of a lot of hand to hand combat..........
I think participation rates are lower because of sports specialization, not because kids aren't doing anything. Thirty years ago a top wrestler probably played two or three other sports in addition to wrestling. Now a large percentage of them only wrestle, which drops participation in other sports. So a kid whose main sport is football decides to not wrestle (encourage by his coaches, btw) and wrestling participation rate goes down. It doesn't mean kids aren't doing anything, it just means that more and more kids are only playing one sport.
Wrestling's issues come from several fronts. First, at the college level it faces budget and Title IX problems. While all sports face budget issues, being a male sport wrestling also faces Title IX problems. There's not much that can happen there.
At the youth and high school level, other than specialization its problems are mainly geographic and demographic. In states like Iowa, NJ, and Pennsylvania there are probably more highly talented wrestlers than there were thirty years ago -- because so many of them are wrestling year round and participating in national tournaments. But there are large swaths of the country where wrestling never caught on.
Also, it is still predominantly a small town sport; it doesn't do well in urban areas.
So, no, allowing kids to wear something that doesn't get made fun of (and you and I both know people outside of the sport make fun of wrestling singlets) won't change much of anything in itself in the areas where wrestling is already popular. But there are people trying to spread the sport into other areas -- which would be wonderful for the sport. They need every edge they can get.
We don't need a "national vote" (who would conduct such a thing?) for the NFHSA to allow for alternate uniforms. Change the rule and see what happens. Insisting on leaving in place a barrier to entry seems to be just plain stubbornness. The anger some express at this pretty small and innocuous idea is perplexing.
I actually see many beginner wrestlers wrestle there first year in just Tshirt and shorts. Maybe wrestling shoes maybe gym shoes maybe socks. Where are you going to these youth tournaments where beginner kids never wear Tshirt and shorts? How long has it been since you've been disconnected from youth wrestling? I agree with you on one thing the quality of wrestlers now a days is tremendous. You might have solved the problem when quality goes up your quanity sometimes goes down. Why is that, because kids don't know how to lose and it's easier to not do it. Shame on the parents who spend the extra money on specialized clubs and push their kids to better themselves.
I'm still somewhat involved in youth wrestling at the league level in New Jersey. The league has 50 teams and about 2500 wrestlers; all events require a singlet, wrestling shoes, and headgear; although we have some low-income towns where we let things slide because we know it can be a problem. I guess I have seen some low-key summer tournaments where they're lenient, but even most of those do require all wrestlers to be properly attired.
I NJ you have:
- Rec leagues, all of which require singlets and supply them as part of the registration fee.
- Dual leagues; which are very competitive and always require singlets
- USAW Folkstyle qualifiers and state tournaments; highly competitive and require singlets
- Summer tournaments; most are strict, occasionally some are lax
Do you realize when you say low income areas that is probably the equivalent of 80% of America. It's like when people say I grew up in a small town of 30,000, in Iowa that's a 4A school district. When you say each league has 50 teams that is 50 small towns in Iowa. It seems many of this is coming from your state level or heavily populated areas. My point is if it appears to be a problem in certain areas (which we disagree what the root of the problem is), so why does everyone have to adapt to appease certain areas? Optional at the youth level sure do it, it's dumb not to, but I guarantee your not going to see your numbers explode.
Great discussion! If you're against giving youth wrestlers a choice you are out of touch with the situation. If you think just three more kids in a room a year wouldn't make a difference, you're wrong.
With our school clubs in Waterloo, what's left of them, we'll combine some nights with rival schools just so kids aren't wrestling the same kid every night or so they can wrestle a kid that's the same weight or skill level. We drive to Cedar Rapids for my youngest. The first super club in Iowa, the Wahawk wrestling club , is pretty much dead. Cedarfalls wrestling is nonexistent. We work our asses off to find kids and if fighter shorts bring a kid in the room, then we need fighter shorts. I'm going to start polling at all my kids' clubs and see what I come with. I'll have my oldest ask his friends that don't like singlets if shorts and a shirt would sway them at all. We'll be running a tournament Friday and I'm going to put a sheet up. I'll get some hard numbers.
Any of the reasons like "we only want tough kids and singlets weed out the pussies" is just backwards thinking that I can't grasp.
With our school clubs in Waterloo, what's left of them, we'll combine some nights with rival schools just so kids aren't wrestling the same kid every night or so they can wrestle a kid that's the same weight or skill level. We drive to Cedar Rapids for my youngest. The first super club in Iowa, the Wahawk wrestling club , is pretty much dead. Cedarfalls wrestling is nonexistent. We work our asses off to find kids and if fighter shorts bring a kid in the room, then we need fighter shorts. I'm going to start polling at all my kids' clubs and see what I come with. I'll have my oldest ask his friends that don't like singlets if shorts and a shirt would sway them at all. We'll be running a tournament Friday and I'm going to put a sheet up. I'll get some hard numbers.
Any of the reasons like "we only want tough kids and singlets weed out the pussies" is just backwards thinking that I can't grasp.
The coach sounds like a pussy and a quitter himself. Kind of a hypocrite. We have those parents and we'll tell them if they don't like it leave. My wife let it be known if you have problem come to her not the coach so there is a barrier and if you don't like the coaching then you can hit the road.
I agree with you. I don't see why it shouldn't be optional at the youth level. I know in my community you might have 40 kids in a class playing basketball. It is 100% not because of having to wear a singlet. As I'm sure you know most all of the local youth tourneys in Iowa don't require you to wear a singlet. The problem is something deeper and it's a social issue like it or not. I'm not surprised that you would exaggerate something, but wrestling is not on life support. Like I said before when quality gets so high, you tend to decline in quanity.
Why is female wrestling getting so popular? If singlet were keeping kids away from wrestling wouldn't you think they'd be the first ones affected?
As I said, optional at all levels. Let's look at what we're actually talking about:
Setting NCAA aside, you would start by having the NFHS change Section 1 Article 1. Instead of only allowing singlets, allow for an alternate uniform such as fight shorts and compression shirt. At that point, every high school in the country would choose which way they want to go. If it turns out most kids want to keep singlets, then most schools would keep singlets and the alternate would fade away. If most kids want the change, most schools would change and high school wrestling would have a new look.
The thousands of youth organizations would be free, as they are now, to set their own rules. Of course, most of them use the NFHS rules as their guideline, so if high schools make the change most youth programs probably would, as well. But it would be each club's choice.
If what you're saying is true, and most youth programs in your area don't require singlets, then I'm not sure why you care. It's not like we're advocating armed mobs swarming into the youth practices forcing fight shorts onto them!
And your current shorts/t's is much closer to the new look than they are to singlets -- you're practically using what I propose already!I do care because I'm a traditionalist and when you have loud voices saying this is the way things should be I don't like that. Most kids wear singlets, but it's not uncommon seeing kids trying wrestling for the first time wearing gym clothes. I just think everyone saying ditch the singlet to grow wrestling is missing what is really going on with kids and parents in 2016.As I said, optional at all levels. Let's look at what we're actually talking about:
Setting NCAA aside, you would start by having the NFHS change Section 1 Article 1. Instead of only allowing singlets, allow for an alternate uniform such as fight shorts and compression shirt. At that point, every high school in the country would choose which way they want to go. If it turns out most kids want to keep singlets, then most schools would keep singlets and the alternate would fade away. If most kids want the change, most schools would change and high school wrestling would have a new look.
The thousands of youth organizations would be free, as they are now, to set their own rules. Of course, most of them use the NFHS rules as their guideline, so if high schools make the change most youth programs probably would, as well. But it would be each club's choice.
If what you're saying is true, and most youth programs in your area don't require singlets, then I'm not sure why you care. It's not like we're advocating armed mobs swarming into the youth practices forcing fight shorts onto them!
I keep trying to point out that the "loud voices" are saying "Give kids a choice" starting at the high school level. If you're right then there will be no harm, because they will choose singlets. I will admit that by giving them a choice, the new look will take over -- so in essence I'm saying "let's switch" -- but the only thing anybody can advocate is changing NFHS to tweak the clothing requirements.
Kids want to look cool. Even the top wrestlers. Why tell them "No -- I'm a traditionalist and I say stick with singlets"?
Jesus, I'm an idiot. My kids just voted 4-0 for singlets. But they've been wrestling since they were three, maybe that's just what they're used to. I guess they like wearing the shorts and shirt off the mat and every day in the summer, but apparently not when wrestling. My oldest said he likes showing off his collection of singlets and you look poor in shorts and a shirt. Maybe the basketball players would like them. I'm done.
now that is funny.as I have said before I do not care either way, I just like giving it to people who are so sure their point of view is the only one that is valid.
This thread is called "ditch the singlet" not make a choice. I'm one voice on a message board, I don't have a platform like Flo. If new uniforms don't get the results you want does it go to Lebron James coming out with wrestling shoe? Do we say the CK head gears aren't cool or safe enough? Do we blame the numbers on cauliflower ear and we figure out a way to bubble wrap kids ears? Will it stop if the ditch the singlet thing isn't the cure. Do parents look at themselves on how the raise there kid. Do they want to raise them as a blue collar hard worker or someone who greieves everything that doesn't go their way? I see the other side I just think the issue is deeper then cosmetic. You won't even admit that the issue could fall on how kids are being raised.
I'm not sure anyone responding is really in favor of "ditching the singlet" altogether. Most just want a choice to see what happens. Sure the article was titled that but that was probably just for "click bait" purposes. Change the rule to an option and give it a 4-6 year run, just see what happens.
And there is no doubt the way kids are being raised is an issue but do you see this trend changing anytime soon? So we should just sit back and not try and improve numbers any way we can because society is making our kids soft and work brittle? What if I could pull five or more kids per class into the sport and try and teach them the values they need to be successful?
As for girls wrestling growing, I'm not sure that's a fair comparison since they are basically starting at ground zero. Also, they don't have a pair of nuts and a clam hammer to be exposed by our much beloved "tights".
And I've been going to kids club tournaments every weekend for about 6 years here in the STL area and can't think of one time seeing a kid in just t-shirt and shorts, they are all in singlets. In fact, it's required that they weigh-in in a singlet now (society).
Are you guys also aware that you have not been able to weigh in naked for quite a few years now at the high school level? Everyone must weigh in in a "suitable" undergarment. Yep, sorry to make all you "traditionalists'" days even worse That 106 lber's (or in your day 98 lbers) mom must of got mad that coach made him drop his underwear in front of everyone to make weight and he wasn't able to recover from the situation.
And there is no doubt the way kids are being raised is an issue but do you see this trend changing anytime soon? So we should just sit back and not try and improve numbers any way we can because society is making our kids soft and work brittle? What if I could pull five or more kids per class into the sport and try and teach them the values they need to be successful?
As for girls wrestling growing, I'm not sure that's a fair comparison since they are basically starting at ground zero. Also, they don't have a pair of nuts and a clam hammer to be exposed by our much beloved "tights".
And I've been going to kids club tournaments every weekend for about 6 years here in the STL area and can't think of one time seeing a kid in just t-shirt and shorts, they are all in singlets. In fact, it's required that they weigh-in in a singlet now (society).
Are you guys also aware that you have not been able to weigh in naked for quite a few years now at the high school level? Everyone must weigh in in a "suitable" undergarment. Yep, sorry to make all you "traditionalists'" days even worse
That 106 lber's (or in your day 98 lbers) mom must of got mad that coach made him drop his underwear in front of everyone to make weight and he wasn't able to recover from the situation.
Just got this in an email from the NWCA and has some statistics about recent participation numbers.
So why are home dual meets so important to scholastic wrestling. For starters, I believe home dual meets, particularly between cross town rivalries, are absolutely critical for reversing the participation trend for high school wrestling (boys). Please keep in mind that scholastic wrestling participation (nationally) has fallen 6 straight years and it fell by over 10,000 two years ago and by approximately 7,500 this past year. The average roster size has shrunk from 37/team to 23/team since 1975.
So why are home dual meets so important to scholastic wrestling. For starters, I believe home dual meets, particularly between cross town rivalries, are absolutely critical for reversing the participation trend for high school wrestling (boys). Please keep in mind that scholastic wrestling participation (nationally) has fallen 6 straight years and it fell by over 10,000 two years ago and by approximately 7,500 this past year. The average roster size has shrunk from 37/team to 23/team since 1975.
I was surprised I had to weigh in wearing a singlet in an old guy tournament in Japan earlier this year.Are you guys also aware that you have not been able to weigh in naked for quite a few years now at the high school level? Everyone must weigh in in a "suitable" undergarment. Yep, sorry to make all you "traditionalists'" days even worse
For the record, I 100% disagree with all the grumpy old men who complain about how soft kids are. I was a child of the 60's, and people complained about how soft we were . It's just something grumpy old men say year after year; along with complaining about anything that changes in the world.
But for the sake of argument, let's say guys like you are right; we have a bunch of soft kids. Is the purpose of wrestling just to establish a club in which only tough kids can participate in order to learn lessons that their parents are going to teach them anyway? Is it, in short, a place in which the only ones allowed in are the ones who don't need the lessons wrestling teaches?
Or should we be trying to encourage even the soft kids in, knowing that for those who stick with it wrestling will be a life-changing activity that turns them into men they never otherwise would have become? I've already said I've seen kids' lives transformed, and most involved in the sport have similar stories. I think it's great to take a second grader with no self-confidence destined for a sedentary life, and turn them into self-confident young men who understand at a young age that what you get out of life is directly related to the hard work you put into it. I would love to see more urban youths drawn to the sport, and have their lives transformed by learning those same lessons. If kids today are too soft, we need to try to get more of them involved so wrestling can do its small part at counteracting the culture producing these soft kids.
If we have to attract them with the sizzle, in order to get them to eat the steak, I see nothing wrong with that.
I actually wrote my masters thesis on this very subject, although that was almost three years ago now. Between research into high school coaches, fans, students and parents, I came to the conclusion that a uniform change could help to increase participation at younger ages, particularly through potential female athletes. I think that at the college level the change may be unnecessary but at a high school level I think this would be a good direction to travel in.
Well, telling people to leave wasn't much of an option. School administration was more loyal to the whiny parents than to the coach. "Blue-collar" wasn't exactly the image our administration strived for.
Thanks for posting the results of your poll with the kids -- most people probably would not have done that (volunteered results in conflict with the hypothesis). But yes, I suspect the time they had already spent in the sport had something to do with the results. Which I believe is largely consistent with what some of us are saying -- give them a choice at first, and then the singlet won't matter later because those who like the sport and are dedicated will stick around no matter what.
I understand the "blue collar" deal. I coaxed a coach that was beyond rough around the edges to come coach at our private catholic school. He's reading this. It was a little controversial at first, but the people that understand wrestling realized what we had. I guess we're lucky that we live in Waterloo and they know blue collar is how wrestling has to be. It doesn't matter what your parents make when you're on the mat, it's how much work you put in and how much pain you can endure.
BTW, all the kids I've asked look at me like I'm crazy on the fight short question. I try to argue for fight shorts and they really have no time for it. They really don't take me serious. I'm sure I'm up to twenty by now.
Ha -- well, here is a possible experiment: Poll the kids who are married to the singlet about whether they are T-Ram fans (or were, prior to corner-gate). I have a hunch that one of the attractions of the singlet to kids nowadays is that, following victory, sleeveless attire makes for way a better gun show.
No my wife is on the wrestling board, but our coach can handle himself.
She also has two youth baseball clubs and that's where the real drama is. You have volunteer coaches getting attacked that their kid should bat here and pitch here and god forbid he plays the outfield .My saintly wife being the manager steps in to take the heat off the coach because she enjoys dealing with strange entitled people that need to be put in their place. I also do, but I'm not allowed to speak. And she's right, if we want to keep building I need stay out of it. but, but, but It's fun having four boys involved in all sports. Time go goes do fast, get involved it's easy and they need your help.
Sorry it looks like hell. I shattered my screen tonight... and the whiskey
UNI v V-Tech. T-ram was brought up everyone had a god laugh about him. The think he's WEE style. They had no love. They would rather smile like you're not shit and celebrate over top of you. We have a new stud wrestler from Clovis, Cal. where're going to get him to go out like tony for three matches thursday.
Kids hate Tony more than they hate Fighter shorts
