Does everyone stay?

[Ihawkhoops]

Players need to find their own confidence. We have heard this about Moss since he set foot on campus. Hard to calibrate here as he went to the NBA trials and had a trading card or whatever created with his MN game stats on it (x points in x minutes). That does not strike me as someone who suffers from low self-confidence.

What I believe to be a contributing factor is that these guys don't face the caliber of athletes in practice they do in games. I am not talking elite level here just your run of the mill B1G player. I am sure in practice these guys look like scoring machines but in games against better athletes some shrinkage occurs.

 

[Ihawkhoops]

I don’t agree but respect your opinion. To have a swoon that has affected so many players has to be more than coincidence. Let’s face it, anyone that gives a shit about Iowa men’s hoops is looking for answers and there are a lot of factors for the late season collapse. I still think the blame falls at Fran’s feet. He constructed the roster. He is in charge of rotations. His temper has again been a distraction. The defense again offers little resistance. Even if Fran forced players out or they left on their own, I don’t have a lot of faith that he can bring in instant impact players.

Well stated. We had this pipe dream last year. If these guys would leave and open up spots Fran could bring some new guys in. Well it happened and the only add wasn't an add it was just Connor being able to play. The name on the jersey will be different but the game or lack thereof will be the same as long as he overvalues his coaching and undervalues athleticism. There are lots of Jake Kelly, Justin Johnson, Jeff Horner, type guys out there. Granted none of these are going to radically alter the trajectory of Iowa basketball but all would make this team more competitive from day one.

 

[owenhawk]

I don’t agree but respect your opinion. To have a swoon that has affected so many players has to be more than coincidence. Let’s face it, anyone that gives a shit about Iowa men’s hoops is looking for answers and there are a lot of factors for the late season collapse. I still think the blame falls at Fran’s feet. He constructed the roster. He is in charge of rotations. His temper has again been a distraction. The defense again offers little resistance. Even if Fran forced players out or they left on their own, I don’t have a lot of faith that he can bring in instant impact players.

Lots of fair points. It ultimately falls on him and I can’t say I have complete faith in him either. I’m at the point where I won’t be mad/upset if he leaves but I also think some people are going way overboard on their criticism. Some people talk like Iowa at the bottom of the P5 basketball world. It could be better but it could be a whole lot worse (just last year was way worse then this). This team is going to the NCAA Tournament one year removed from a terrible year.

Also, a lot people act like if Fran leaves, Iowa is automatically going to have a much better coach and success. Just look at what we got with the previous coach. That was a 3 year debacle that still gives me nightmares. Personally, I like what Fran has done as well compared to Alford. Alford’s regime was full of major disappointments and issues besides 2 Big Ten Tourney Championships. As others have pointed out besides Dr. Tom’s first couple years in which he inherited way better talent then he ever recruited, it’s been about 30 years of the same thing with what Fran’s done actually being on the better end of the spectrum for the most part.

It just seems like people need to have a little more perspective (not directed at you specifically). We all want better and again, I’m with you that I’m not convinced that Fran can bring that. But his team seems to like him and believe that he has their back. They never get in trouble. If he was gone, who knows who would all stay.

To me, I feel like there are some strong pieces to have a good run the next 2-3 years even after this year. Regardless of what happens with Cook, this is going to be a very experienced team next year and that can mean a lot in college basketball. But the reason I am really excited is because they have a player (Wieskamp) who I think can be the guy. Even better then any that Fran has had as an all-around player and who I think has the ability AND mental toughness to be that guy. And in college basketball, having a player like that can have a huge impact on a team. Then you surround him with Garza as a great 2nd offensive option and then it comes down to if the other pieces can fill in around them. I know people want to beat-up Connor and Patrick but if they can be rotational guys with Nunge, Frederick, Toussaint and find 1-2 others along the way, then I think you might have something that could be that next level. I would hate to destroy all that for another rebuild and waste Wieskamp like they did with Gatens.

 

[relishingwinning18]

Baer, Cook, Moss, Garza, Bohannon, Pemsl, and Weiskamp weren't misses. We just haven't had a number one to run our team for 3 years now. Pretty sure Cook was supposed to be that guy, but he's not. Jury still out on Nunge and Frederick.

I was speaking to Fran’s tenure not just the current roster.

Yeah he’s had some definite misses in the past. That one recruiting class with Wagner turned out awful. The whole thing!

 

[jellyfish10]

Lots of fair points. It ultimately falls on him and I can’t say I have complete faith in him either. I’m at the point where I won’t be mad/upset if he leaves but I also think some people are going way overboard on their criticism. Some people talk like Iowa at the bottom of the P5 basketball world. It could be better but it could be a whole lot worse (just last year was way worse then this). This team is going to the NCAA Tournament one year removed from a terrible year.

Also, a lot people act like if Fran leaves, Iowa is automatically going to have a much better coach and success. Just look at what we got with the previous coach. That was a 3 year debacle that still gives me nightmares. Personally, I like what Fran has done as well compared to Alford. Alford’s regime was full of major disappointments and issues besides 2 Big Ten Tourney Championships. As others have pointed out besides Dr. Tom’s first couple years in which he inherited way better talent then he ever recruited, it’s been about 30 years of the same thing with what Fran’s done actually being on the better end of the spectrum for the most part.

It just seems like people need to have a little more perspective (not directed at you specifically). We all want better and again, I’m with you that I’m not convinced that Fran can bring that. But his team seems to like him and believe that he has their back. They never get in trouble. If he was gone, who knows who would all stay.

To me, I feel like there are some strong pieces to have a good run the next 2-3 years even after this year. Regardless of what happens with Cook, this is going to be a very experienced team next year and that can mean a lot in college basketball. But the reason I am really excited is because they have a player (Wieskamp) who I think can be the guy. Even better then any that Fran has had as an all-around player and who I think has the ability AND mental toughness to be that guy. And in college basketball, having a player like that can have a huge impact on a team. Then you surround him with Garza as a great 2nd offensive option and then it comes down to if the other pieces can fill in around them. I know people want to beat-up Connor and Patrick but if they can be rotational guys with Nunge, Frederick, Toussaint and find 1-2 others along the way, then I think you might have something that could be that next level. I would hate to destroy all that for another rebuild and waste Wieskamp like they did with Gatens.

Good post. I was ok with Fran being relieved after last year and honestly even before. Much of it had to do with his sideline demeanor. Fire and passion is different than throwing temper tantrums in lieu of coaching. The former is ok. The latter has worn out it’s welcome.

I really think the Conner and Patrick being on the roster have the potential to really complicate things unless they are really good. I don’t root against anyone in black and gold, but I have my doubts that this will work out in a positive fashion. The ball sticks with Connor and he has a lot of work to do with his shot. Pat is obviously going to have strength/weight issues. I’m not writing either one of them off, I just see how this can be an issue going forward.

As far as the rest of the roster, I’m not as down on them as everyone else and hope everyone returns. I see the potential in our known commodities. There IS room for improvement in individual play and collectively, especially on defense. We have largely unknown players in Nunge, Frederick, and Pemsl. How has Nunge improved in the offseason? Is Frederick another Ryan Hogan, Josh Oglsby, or Brady Ellingson or does he bring more to the table? How healthy is CP? Has he improved his shot? Then we have freshmen PMC and JT. How will they fit in? We only lose Baer as of now and I’m curious to see where the pieces fit.

I will always watch and support the Hawks, I just don’t have a lot of faith that Fran can put the toothpaste back in the tube. Things are a mess right now and IMO postseason success would go a long way to righting the ship.

 

[HoochHawk]

Fran is doing a tremendous job!

 

[Jizzer]

I was speaking to Fran’s tenure not just the current roster.

Ah gotcha. Well let's look at this:
2010: Marble hit, Basabe hit, Cartwright hit, McCabe Miss?
2011: White hit, Olesani hit, Oglesby miss? (not sure, he had a ton of offers)
2012: Woody hit, Gessell hit, Clemmons hit, Meyer miss, Ingram Miss
2013: Jok hit
2014: Dickerson, Uhl, Ellingson misses
2015: Moss hit, other 5 Miss. Although Dale Jones Injuries hampered him. Let's say 4 misses, one not Fran's fault.
2016: Cook hit, Jobo hit, Pemsl hit, Kreiner toss up, Dailey Miss
2017: Garza hit, Nunge and Connor too soon
2018: Joe hit, Jfred too soon.
So in 9 years I'd say 15 hits, 12 misses, including Oglesby(not sure about) one tweener in Kreiner. 7 of those misses were from those two awful years. Overall, he hasn't been that bad I don't think, but again, we probably have different definitions of "hit" or "miss".

 

[HaydenHawk8]

Ah gotcha. Well let's look at this:
2010: Marble hit, Basabe hit, Cartwright hit, McCabe Miss?
2011: White hit, Olesani hit, Oglesby miss? (not sure, he had a ton of offers)
2012: Woody hit, Gessell hit, Clemmons hit, Meyer miss, Ingram Miss
2013: Jok hit
2014: Dickerson, Uhl, Ellingson misses
2015: Moss hit, other 5 Miss. Although Dale Jones Injuries hampered him. Let's say 4 misses, one not Fran's fault.
2016: Cook hit, Jobo hit, Pemsl hit, Kreiner toss up, Dailey Miss
2017: Garza hit, Nunge and Connor too soon
2018: Joe hit, Jfred too soon.
So in 9 years I'd say 14 hits, 12 misses, including Oglesby(not sure about) one tweener in Kreiner. 7 of those misses were from those two awful years. Overall, he hasn't been that bad I don't think, but again, we probably have different definitions of "hit" or "miss".

Do you think that’s cause of the imbalance of classes? I mean he goes the one year bring in 5 and then the next only 1. The he brings in 4/5 more?

With the transfer (free agency) now I think it’s hard to balance classes. But Fran seems
to be trying to get it more balanced, because he is starting to redshirt more guys.

 

[Jizzer]

Do you think that’s cause of the imbalance of classes? I mean he goes the one year bring in 5 and then the next only 1. The he brings in 4/5 more?

With the transfer (free agency) now I think it’s hard to balance classes. But Fran seems
to be trying to get it more balanced, because he is starting to redshirt more guys.

Not sure, I will say, looking at all those years, the one failure is his inability to bring a transfer in here and there. I really think if we had brought in 3 transfers outside of just Uthoff during this period, Iowa may have made the tourney 5 of the last 6 years. I really wish he'd get into the transfer market.

 

[HaydenHawk8]

Not sure, I will say, looking at all those years, the one failure is his inability to bring a transfer in here and there. I really think if we had brought in 3 transfers outside of just Uthoff during this period, Iowa may have made the tourney 5 of the last 6 years. I really wish he'd get into the transfer market.

Agree! 95% of teams are doing it, why not give it a shot!

 

[Ihawkhoops]

Iowa basketball never gets better with Fran here IMO because his recruiting / player evaluation skills are simply not good enough AND he refuses to bring in transfers. For those who think "there aren't guys out there" please watch more than Iowa games the next couple weeks. You will have your eyes opened to how many teams are utilizing juco and more and more graduate transfers to augment their traditional recruits. This is an absolute necessity in a state like Iowa. And no, these kids don't have rap sheets, aren't getting paid and won't erode the existing chemistry. This is P5 level hoops. 2 years to get your game in order or expect to get recruited over. It's like the Dom Uhl experiment. Get worse the longer you are in the program and as senior ride the pine.

 

[owenhawk]

Iowa basketball never gets better with Fran here IMO because his recruiting / player evaluation skills are simply not good enough AND he refuses to bring in transfers. For those who think "there aren't guys out there" please watch more than Iowa games the next couple weeks. You will have your eyes opened to how many teams are utilizing juco and more and more graduate transfers to augment their traditional recruits. This is an absolute necessity in a state like Iowa. And no, these kids don't have rap sheets, aren't getting paid and won't erode the existing chemistry. This is P5 level hoops. 2 years to get your game in order or expect to get recruited over. It's like the Dom Uhl experiment. Get worse the longer you are in the program and as senior ride the pine.

I agree it’s curious he diesnt use the grad transfer or transfer route more, especially with Guards. Seems like he could if helped himself a lot just bringing in a few guys at the 1 or 2 that could have helped out. I wish he would utilize that more. For example, if just next year he could bring on a SG that is a solid player, not a star, to supplant Moss that would really bode well for them. I really dread the thought of wasting what could be a really good year with a 5th year of Moss starting.

 

[Ihawkhoops]

This is a very pedestrian example but take the Mcquaid kid from MSU. As a freshman I thought "Wow, Izzo must need somebody to boost the team GPA". That dude has gotten better each year and has turned into a salty defender and clutch 3-point shooter. Granted he is asked to do 75% less than Bohannon and has the benefit of playing on a loaded team but he has gotten better every year. Same with Wisconsin. They somehow transform projects into players with regularity.

 

[HaydenHawk8]

This is a very pedestrian example but take the Mcquaid kid from MSU. As a freshman I thought "Wow, Izzo must need somebody to boost the team GPA". That dude has gotten better each year and has turned into a salty defender and clutch 3-point shooter. Granted he is asked to do 75% less than Bohannon and has the benefit of playing on a loaded team but he has gotten better every year. Same with Wisconsin. They somehow transform projects into players with regularity.

A guy I sit by at games always states that Iowa hasn’t developed players. He claims that Fran doesn’t work with the players enough or they don’t add anything to the players skill set. I bring up (Marble, White, Olaseni, and Jok) as guys who improved while at Iowa. He fires back the (McCabe, Uhl, Olgesby, and etc).

So I guess it begs the question, do players improve while at Iowa? Does the coaching improve or hamper the players? AW & DM are two examples of hard workers. White got locked inside a facility while at Iowa. I don’t know If the players are as motivated as white was.

Matt Painter has a great quote yesterday, “Top 20 guys are legit and you know what your getting. 20-300 you do not know what your gonna get” so it’s up to the player to get better. Thought that was interesting to hear, he gets a lot of kids in the 20-300 range. He must work miracles, his teams are always tough.

 

[kcgolfer]

He will graduate transfer IMO. Go play for Missouri, Wichita State, Texas Tech, type of program. Cook seems done with the whole Iowa experience. Put Cook on a team with good guards and he would be on Sports Center 3 nights per week.

Except his hands are so poor he can't catch a decent pass.

 

[papabeef]

That is all you have after you you were called out as a liar? Come on, back up your idiotic claim you pathetic attention whore.

called out as a liar by you ? not going to lose any sleep over that . i did say it was a rumor . i do know his high school coach GB , he got his start in southeast iowa .

 

[SB_SB]

Except his hands are so poor he can't catch a decent pass.

poor is an understatement. I've never seen a guy who looks so strong but yet can't hang on to a basketball.

 

[go-hawks37]

You’d be surprised how good some of our guys would look if they were playing with a Cassius Winston.

 

[L. Wade Childress]

Fran has typically told guys like Dailey that they aren’t getting minutes any further and they move on. Dailey was a late signee with few other HM offers. I think he must like him personally. It wouldn’t surprise me to see him leave or get Uhl’d.

 

[HaydenHawk8]

Fran has typically told guys like Dailey that they aren’t getting minutes any further and they move on. Dailey was a late signee with few other HM offers. I think he must like him personally. It wouldn’t surprise me to see him leave or get Uhl’d.

I see the same for Dailey. Weren’t he and Williams last chance resorts? I remember both of them signing late.

That’s where maybe a grad transfer would of helped instead of taking a risk on a late addition. I remember when CW signed a lot of people thought he was the next coming of Dev Marble. Kid never really got comfortable at Iowa. Seemed to struggle on both ends of the floor.

 

[hawkguy77]

here is an excellent question . if woody was a great rebounder why did he play so few minutes his first 3 years ? some to ponder as you two continue your woody lovefest . lol

Two words: Gabe Olesani.