I hope you’re right and I see a lot of the things you see. He’s entertaining to watch. I just hope he keeps hitting the 3s like he did the last half of the year.
Drew Thelwell visiting April 15 (6'3 guard; ONE Year Eligibility). Camren Hunter on April 18 (Has TWO Years Eligibility)
- Thread starter Franisdaman
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I hope you’re right and I see a lot of the things you see. He’s entertaining to watch. I just hope he keeps hitting the 3s like he did the last half of the year.
He's not going to become Seth Curry, as he is a past first point guard, but he will keep team honest.
Crazy small sample size but his last 6 games when he was getting 10+ minutes/game he went 5/7 from 3.
This is the play I refer back to when I think about Brock's potential as future PG:
I’m a Brock fan, but this is on a whole other level.
I watched Brock improve every year at Moline until his senior year when he became the best player Moline has ever had and there have been many. Some that have gone on to be Iowa players such as Bill Seaberg had jersey retired No. 22, Scott Thompson who was named team captain, and Acie Earl. Steve Kuberski played many years with the Boston Celtics. I'm sure there are other that for the time being I can't remember, but Brock is a very special player that many on here will find out come next year.
He had a 3.4 to 1 assist to turnover ratio this past year playing just under 11 minutes a game, name me other Iowa point guard that had a higher assist to turnover ratio in your life time. He makes everyone better when he's on the court despite his size.
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Maybe he's having a brain fart on Woodridge and BJ?
I think it's a stretch to think Brock will be better than Oliver.
I think he'll be better than Jbo, Gessel and Smith and maybe better than Horner but those two are very different type pg so it's hard to say.
Entirely different players, both extremely great, JB with a storied NBA career, but Brock will be right up there with Andre. Matching B.J.'s career maybe a little more difficult, I have to admit.
Andre's time at Iowa was very disappointing, the teams that Andre started on, lost way to many games for the talent that was on those teams.
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I like Harding, and think he will be a big contributor for the next 3 years, but I don't know how you can make a definitive statement that he "better point guard." Thelwell is also a pure PG, and had almost a 3:1 assist:to ratio, as the clear leader on a successful program. Until you have watched Thelwell, and I have not, I would hold off on assuming he isn't very good. I suspect he isn't coming to Iowa expecting to sit behind Brock. I hope they both get major minutes, and it will be interesting to see if they will both be on the court for at least small segments of games.
Too lazy to research, but Gesell had really good assist:to ratios. Not nearly the playmaker Harding can be, but Harding will never be the defender Gesell was. A ratio over a short time doesn't mean as much as that for a player who is the primary ballhandler over 30 min/game, like Thelwell.
speaking of Gesell...i think the poster we are replying to claimed that Harding was going to blow Gesell's freshman statistics out of the water,
Well then, if Mulvey does end up seeing minutes let's just make absolutely sure they are on the court together at the same time.
I agree that Thelwell probably didn’t join Iowa to come off the bench. What complicates things to me is Fran is unlikely to run a 3-guard lineup out there much, so all the guards are in direct competition for minutes instead of being able to play alongside each other.
There are still a good amount of minutes to go around in the guard court, but I wonder if 2 guards, 2 tweener forwards, and Freeman is the best approach, rather than 3 guards, Payton, and Freeman. I guess we’ll see.
I said point guard, Connor was never a point guard and how'd Iowa do in the NCAA tournament with Connor. Having a player of Garza's stature and ability to be score anywhere on the court made his assist stats extremely overrated.
Obviously, you haven't watched many Morehead St games on YouTube, Drew is not a pure PG by any means. He's a combo guard that can play PG, but he doesn't have all the skills that Brock has. He might not have transfers to Iowa to ride the bench but I doubt he beats out Harding for the starting point guard spot and anybody that's thinks differently will have to wait until the beginning of this upcoming season to find out. May the best man win. The only attribute Drew has on Brock is he's 3 inches taller, Brock is better at everything else.
How did Iowa do in the NCAAT with Brock Harding?
Geezus, give it a rest. So you're saying he's so good he's going to have an NBA career? puff puff pass please. Tell us all what you're smokin. Sounds like you've dipped into the ol vintage "doberman" weed.
Not disagreeing with you about Harding's potential, but your evaluation versus Thelwell is a long way from being objective. Thelwell was doing something right at Morehead. They were winning games and he was by far their primary floor leader and assist man. Some have said he also is pretty good on the defensive end, but I have not seen anything more than highlights. It will be in Iowa's best interest if they are both very good, while you seem to believe that Thelwell is not.
As you said, 80 minutes divided by 3 is still a lot of playing time to go around. Everyone except ILLQC thinks Thelwell is a PG, but it might be better if he is a combo guard...
Harding had some incredible spurts that make us all believe he is going to be very good. I'm not ready to proclaim him as the best PG since Ronnie. Right now, I can't even put him in the top handful. I hope that changes, because Iowa fans will be the beneficiaries.
Yup, that was on full display this past tourney…I was actually kind of shocked too. That kid for ‘Bama was crazy good - lots of others I can’t name right now…😎
If Brock progresses enough to start at point Fran could slot Dix into the 3 and Thelwell at the 2 and run a three guard lineup with Payton at the 4. Fran would 100% have to pick up another portal guard though (maybe even 2 more) and hope the freshmen forwards are floor ready.
Thelwell had a bit of down year shooting this season but his junior year he slashed .463/.381/.732. That's more than enough to start the 2 if he's a tenacious defender.
I admittedly did not see much of Pryce this past season, but I definitely have my doubts. Having said that, I will happily eat crow if he turns into a solid BT player. 😎
Heard Eliot on kxno this week say that Thelwell apparently was playing with a hurt wrist most of this past year which is why a lot of his shooting splits went down.
Fran McCaffery? Play basketball like the rest of the civilized world?
Cmon man.
Whats next...defense?
Yawn. Come up with some new material for the first time in your life.
Nah. I'll just keep pointing out the obvious until it changes because that's what I want to do.
Block me if you want sweetheart.
I knew new material would be too much to expect. Just keep crying about losing your lord & savior Tony Perkins.
Did I call you out for thinking Iowa was going to be better off without Perkins or something?
That's obviously a stupid take but I have rarely talked about Perkins and I don't really remember anything about you.
I mostly just talk about being sick of Fran.
I didn't say Thelwell wasn't good, watch video's of him against Alabama, Purdue, Penn St, Indiana, and Illinois, teams that are more of what he well play at Iowa that Morehead St. played against last year.
He's a good player but isn't going to knock your socks off. If he beats out Harding it will be because Harding is injured or failed to improve over the summer.
Either way all 3 guards in Dix, Brock, and Drew will get plenty of court time. Brock and Drew at the point, and Dix and Drew at the off guard. Win, win, for the Iowa men's basketball team.
Heck, when Harding had the breakout game against UMBC with 10 points and 12 assists in late December everyone was saying it was against interior competition. The Ohio Valley is not the Big Ten.
The game with UMBC was against INFERIOR competition. And Brock didn't do much of consequence before or after that game. Only a couple of flashes in Big10 play. Thelwell was pretty good all year, albeit in a lessor conference & he supposedly played hurt most of last year.
I wouldn’t mind seeing both of them on the floor together. Start Brock out at PG and when he subs out, slide Thelwell over to the point. I like Brock and think he’ll be a solid guard moving forward, especially if he’s a threat to shoot. I like Thelwell because it sounds like he’s versatile in being able to play a few positions. That may be my only real knock on Harding, is that he is small, and he is locked into one position. Iowa as a whole needs to a better job of switching, so Brock isn’t alone on a big near the post. That’s not just a Brock thing, but a continuous problem with Iowa’s defense.
Too many guards, especially PGs is never a bad thing. I’m just not trying to see it as a Harding vs Thelwell thing, but a Harding & Thelwell thing.
Harding
Thelwell
Dix
Payton
Freeman
Hopefully Koch comes in and makes it difficult on Fran for who’s going to start.
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You have watched more of Thelwell than I have, but also realize that in the games you watched, his team was probably mismatched, If he was holding his own, he is pretty good I think all 3 guards are probably playing at least 20 min, with Dix likely more like 30.
To be fair, there’s not much rebound in most other lineups either.
Yeah, exactly, add another combo guard for defense and if Fran wants to add another Krikke style forward have at it. It's not like Iowa has too many forwards.
If Thelwell is 6'3" then he will have more than 3 " on Brock. Brock looks closer to 5'10" than 6'0".
I would guess Brock is just under 6', but he also has shorter arms and smaller hands than most BB players. The team picture from last year showed this very clearly, where Bowen looked like a relative giant next to Harding. Still, he has shown that he has great ballhandling and court awareness. If the outside shot becomes more consistent and opposing teams don't figure out how to isolate him around the basket on defense, Brock is going to be a very good PG for the next 3 years.
Fran was interviewed on the Hawkeye Fanatic Radio Show (on KCJJ) this morning.
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