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Election Deniers: what specifically would it take for you to trust the process?

I want a receipt showing I voted, my selection and it counted/submitted. I can choose to print it, or get a vote confirmation number that only I can reference back to my vote. So visual only after the machine runs my vote. Secure address for absentee ballots. (No connection to the actual counting process)

Required FREE ID's and a confirmation system in place to match receipts issued to actual votes cast. For authentication and verification of no fraudulent votes submitted under my name. If I choose not to vote I could confirm this. I might consider a commission that could look into all votes, not who but a confirmation of if a vote was submitted or not. It would have to be open to all parties, NDA's, judges only. Only used if the vote is under a certain % of winning margin.

-System in place that ID could be verified if not present. (Lost.etc) Do not turn away anyone without an ID just a validation process and oversight. Absentee could have checks and balances as well that were not intrusive or inhibitive to the voting process.

Machines should be independent and accounted for, transmission of data secured. (No back doors, remote access etc) validation and monitoring would be up to ALL parties having equal access to data collection points. Validation hand offs of data.

This benefits our Democracy in the long run to solicit and apply improvement to any possible concern. Allowing this act to continue to fall under the political football is anti Democracy and both sides should have to accept ANY concern is a BIPARTISAN issue.

Reporting by media should be limited to last ballot being accepted. No additional ballots after reporting by media commences. So if its a 1 day, 3, 7,1 4 day, mail in, delivered by pony express. No reporting untill all are received. Counting can start just no reporting or access to this.

There's more canvassing, ballot harvesting. A thorough review should be an outcome. I will accept flaws in this year's if we have a national update of this process.

I can live with "My" party not winning. I believe the leaving doubt is dangerous with the rise of our 2 parties extremes. Let's have confidence in our system. Make it impossible to cheat or even the hint of that , keep it easy and free to vote.
 
gonegolfing said:
1) a paper ballot to confirm every vote
2) zero automatic absentee ballots only justified reason
3) zero early voting
4) no calling of any states during any national election until the last contiguous voting location is closed
5) no counting of any ballots without equal and present representation from both parties
6) no ballot would count if not received at a collection location before EOB on voting day
7) valid state id before voting


These are simple solutions that must be implemented moving forward if we want to have open and honest elections.

To those that say silly things about massive voter fraud didn't happen, you are being as intellectually dishonest as anyone ever on these boards. Through identified fraud and count mistakes already seen in audits, I think everyone should be concerned regardless of your political leanings. That doesn't even take into account the ballot harvesting and ballot corrections that have illegally occurred.

I don't think the Supreme Court will order a new vote, but I think we all know that serious improvements are needed to avoid the joke that this most recent election was.
Click to expand...

You used a lot of words to say, "If Trump had won".
 
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CatchPhotoRelease said:
I want a receipt showing I voted, my selection and it counted/submitted. I can choose to print it, or get a vote confirmation number that only I can reference back to my vote. So visual only after the machine runs my vote. Secure address for absentee ballots. (No connection to the actual counting process)

Required FREE ID's and a confirmation system in place to match receipts issued to actual votes cast. For authentication and verification of no fraudulent votes submitted under my name. If I choose not to vote I could confirm this. I might consider a commission that could look into all votes, not who but a confirmation of if a vote was submitted or not. It would have to be open to all parties, NDA's, judges only. Only used if the vote is under a certain % of winning margin.

-System in place that ID could be verified if not present. (Lost.etc) Do not turn away anyone without an ID just a validation process and oversight. Absentee could have checks and balances as well that were not intrusive or inhibitive to the voting process.

Machines should be independent and accounted for, transmission of data secured. (No back doors, remote access etc) validation and monitoring would be up to ALL parties having equal access to data collection points. Validation hand offs of data.

This benefits our Democracy in the long run to solicit and apply improvement to any possible concern. Allowing this act to continue to fall under the political football is anti Democracy and both sides should have to accept ANY concern is a BIPARTISAN issue.

Reporting by media should be limited to last ballot being accepted. No additional ballots after reporting by media commences. So if its a 1 day, 3, 7,1 4 day, mail in, delivered by pony express. No reporting untill all are received. Counting can start just no reporting or access to this.

There's more canvassing, ballot harvesting. A thorough review should be an outcome. I will accept flaws in this year's if we have a national update of this process.

I can live with "My" party not winning. I believe the leaving doubt is dangerous with the rise of our 2 parties extremes. Let's have confidence in our system. Make it impossible to cheat or even the hint of that , keep it easy and free to vote.
Click to expand...
Why were none of these an issue in 2016?
 
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DFSNOLE said:
Why were none of these an issue in 2016?
Click to expand...


The Bush-Gore Florida Recount: An Oral History - The Atlantic
www.theatlantic.com

The Bush-Gore Recount Is an Omen for 2020

An oral history of the craziest presidential election in modern history
www.theatlantic.com www.theatlantic.com

I went back further to ensure that the lens of this election and confidence in the process are not lost in the discussion. History shows this is not a new claim. There are numerous cases in our history. Changes came out of these cases. Improvements. I will not post them all to keep this short. They are there for you to research and see what each led too.

I accept this election. (Court pending) in its current format. I will be a good citizen with what the courts decide. My party or not.

Confidence in elections being a key to Democracy should be a common goal. Not here to debate this one. Confidence transcends politics on this issue. The suggestions I offered would be good to consider. They would raise confidence transcending parties.

I accept our current systems outcome. Court's will come back and state that outcome. Trials that occur thru the media are America's new past time. This again transcends politics and is a cornerstone of democracy and should not have to be tried in public. This again is not new to history.
 
CatchPhotoRelease said:
The Bush-Gore Florida Recount: An Oral History - The Atlantic
www.theatlantic.com

The Bush-Gore Recount Is an Omen for 2020

An oral history of the craziest presidential election in modern history
www.theatlantic.com www.theatlantic.com

I went back further to ensure that the lens of this election and confidence in the process are not lost in the discussion. History shows this is not a new claim. There are numerous cases in our history. Changes came out of these cases. Improvements. I will not post them all to keep this short. They are there for you to research and see what each led too.

I accept this election. (Court pending) in its current format. I will be a good citizen with what the courts decide. My party or not.

Confidence in elections being a key to Democracy should be a common goal. Not here to debate this one. Confidence transcends politics on this issue. The suggestions I offered would be good to consider. They would raise confidence transcending parties.

I accept our current systems outcome. Court's will come back and state that outcome. Trials that occur thru the media are America's new past time. This again transcends politics and is a cornerstone of democracy and should not have to be tried in public. This again is not new to history.
Click to expand...
First, that was not 2016. Second, one state with within 500 votes with legitimate issues. Third, you're an idiot for thinking otherwise.
 
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William Bonney said:
not yet
Click to expand...

200.gif
 
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gonegolfing said:
Yes, he had a valid reason. He was not going to be in his state of residence on voting day because of work. Kind of like being stationed in Kuwait on election day. They have a valid reason. Being a fat piece of shit that doesn't want to go vote, or isn't responsible enough to remember, on voting day isn't a valid reason.
Click to expand...

I hope this is not really your argument. Absentee ballots Makes voting on voting day a possibility. It allows more people to vote who don’t get time off from work. I voted absentee because it’s far easier and I am able to track my vote thru the entire process.
stop blaming the system as the only person to blame is Trump. He blew his balls off this year. Should have been a landslide.
 
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CatchPhotoRelease said:
I want a receipt showing I voted, my selection and it counted/submitted. I can choose to print it, or get a vote confirmation number that only I can reference back to my vote. So visual only after the machine runs my vote. Secure address for absentee ballots. (No connection to the actual counting process)

Required FREE ID's and a confirmation system in place to match receipts issued to actual votes cast. For authentication and verification of no fraudulent votes submitted under my name. If I choose not to vote I could confirm this. I might consider a commission that could look into all votes, not who but a confirmation of if a vote was submitted or not. It would have to be open to all parties, NDA's, judges only. Only used if the vote is under a certain % of winning margin.

-System in place that ID could be verified if not present. (Lost.etc) Do not turn away anyone without an ID just a validation process and oversight. Absentee could have checks and balances as well that were not intrusive or inhibitive to the voting process.

Machines should be independent and accounted for, transmission of data secured. (No back doors, remote access etc) validation and monitoring would be up to ALL parties having equal access to data collection points. Validation hand offs of data.

This benefits our Democracy in the long run to solicit and apply improvement to any possible concern. Allowing this act to continue to fall under the political football is anti Democracy and both sides should have to accept ANY concern is a BIPARTISAN issue.

Reporting by media should be limited to last ballot being accepted. No additional ballots after reporting by media commences. So if its a 1 day, 3, 7,1 4 day, mail in, delivered by pony express. No reporting untill all are received. Counting can start just no reporting or access to this.

There's more canvassing, ballot harvesting. A thorough review should be an outcome. I will accept flaws in this year's if we have a national update of this process.

I can live with "My" party not winning. I believe the leaving doubt is dangerous with the rise of our 2 parties extremes. Let's have confidence in our system. Make it impossible to cheat or even the hint of that , keep it easy and free to vote.
Click to expand...

where was this argument in dec 2016? Is it only because your guy won ? There was plenty to debate after 2016 but the right saw nothing wrong with the slimmest of margins and doofus Trump did nothing but talk about his 306 electoral landslide.

Be consistent.
 
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gonegolfing said:
Why would I scream at the top of my lungs that Philly or Detroit failed to deliver thousands of ballots with just a vote for President in time to get them illegally counted? Let's start thinking please.
Click to expand...
Why would you manufacture thousands of fradulant ballots just voting for President when you can just as easily vote for all democratic candidates? In Michigan you can vote straight ticket. Mark one circle and you're done.
 
CatchPhotoRelease said:
The Bush-Gore Florida Recount: An Oral History - The Atlantic
www.theatlantic.com

The Bush-Gore Recount Is an Omen for 2020

An oral history of the craziest presidential election in modern history
www.theatlantic.com www.theatlantic.com

I went back further to ensure that the lens of this election and confidence in the process are not lost in the discussion. History shows this is not a new claim. There are numerous cases in our history. Changes came out of these cases. Improvements. I will not post them all to keep this short. They are there for you to research and see what each led too.

I accept this election. (Court pending) in its current format. I will be a good citizen with what the courts decide. My party or not.

Confidence in elections being a key to Democracy should be a common goal. Not here to debate this one. Confidence transcends politics on this issue. The suggestions I offered would be good to consider. They would raise confidence transcending parties.

I accept our current systems outcome. Court's will come back and state that outcome. Trials that occur thru the media are America's new past time. This again transcends politics and is a cornerstone of democracy and should not have to be tried in public. This again is not new to history.
Click to expand...

I love how people who probably haven’t done so much as setup a Little League registration think they can design an a better voting system than we have devised over a couple of hundred of years tallying billions of votes.

There is no rational reason to distrust our system. The idea of significant voter fraud is on par with your average urban myth.

If there was any doubt, the complete lack of any evidence uncovered in this election despite an unprecedented search for it ought to be all you need to know.
 
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gonegolfing said:
Yes, he had a valid reason. He was not going to be in his state of residence on voting day because of work. Kind of like being stationed in Kuwait on election day. They have a valid reason. Being a fat piece of shit that doesn't want to go vote, or isn't responsible enough to remember, on voting day isn't a valid reason.
Click to expand...

So Trump forgets to vote?
 
hexumhawk said:
Not a denier either but it seems the circumstances of COVID and the mail in went together maybe a little too perfect.

Ok so my plan going forward -

Everyone votes in person with an ID. You make the election a three day event with one of the days being a national holiday. You have to apply for a mail in ballot and have a legitimate reason; military, disabled, nursing home, etc.

Everyone should have more than enough time to get in to their polling place and prove they are who they are and vote. The more ways you give people to vote the more ripe it is for corruption...or even the perception of corruption. I know our society wants to make everything super easy and convenient but this is one thing that the importance of getting it right outweighs that imo.
Click to expand...

So one is a National Holiday; is it a paid day off for everyone? If I'm an employer in a field that is deemed essential, do I have to pay overtime or bonus pay for those who are working on a holiday? If so, as an employer, is it simply a hit to my pocket, or will the government repay in some fashion (either directly, or via a tax credit)? What will be the source of this new government spending?
If it's not a mandatory paid day off, what happens with those who are struggling financially & cannot afford a day off without pay?
 
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SeaPA said:
So one is a National Holiday; is it a paid day off for everyone? If I'm an employer in a field that is deemed essential, do I have to pay overtime or bonus pay for those who are working on a holiday? If so, as an employer, is it simply a hit to my pocket, or will the government repay in some fashion (either directly, or via a tax credit)? What will be the source of this new government spending?
If it's not a mandatory paid day off, what happens with those who are struggling financially & cannot afford a day off without pay?
Click to expand...

Does the government reimburse you for the 4th of July?
 
hexumhawk said:
Not a denier either but it seems the circumstances of COVID and the mail in went together maybe a little too perfect.

Ok so my plan going forward -

Everyone votes in person with an ID. You make the election a three day event with one of the days being a national holiday. You have to apply for a mail in ballot and have a legitimate reason; military, disabled, nursing home, etc.

Everyone should have more than enough time to get in to their polling place and prove they are who they are and vote. The more ways you give people to vote the more ripe it is for corruption...or even the perception of corruption. I know our society wants to make everything super easy and convenient but this is one thing that the importance of getting it right outweighs that imo.
Click to expand...
How do you guarantee everyone has adequate time...or there will be adequate polling places for voters to vote? You need to have a national standard....but the fact is that the state’s And not the Feds, run elections! There is more than adequTe proof that some states do not provide an adequate number of polling places for their citizens to vote..,I think what happened this year with absentee and early voting is much closer to being fair than relying on a shorter more limited voting window. Why should I be faced with standing in line for an hour or more in shitty weather when I knew well in advance who I was going to vote for? That is bullshit.
 
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joelbc1 said:
How do you guarantee everyone has adequate time...or there will be adequate polling places for voters to vote? You need to have a national standard....but the fact is that the state’s And not the Feds, run elections! There is more than adequTe proof that some states do not provide an adequate number of polling places for their citizens to vote..,I think what happened this year with absentee and early voting is much closer to being fair than relying on a shorter more limited voting window. Why should I be faced with standing in line for an hour or more in shitty weather when I knew well in advance who I was going to vote for? That is bullshit.
Click to expand...

Agree there would be some level of inconvenience at times but I think it would be minimal and worth it for the overall process. I would be willing to find an hour to vote if it meant more people trusted the process.
 
hexumhawk said:
Agree there would be some level of inconvenience at times but I think it would be minimal and worth it for the overall process. I would be willing to find an hour to vote if it meant more people trusted the process.
Click to expand...
Funny how you trusted the process in 2016 ...
 
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What a bunch of suckers we humans are.

Four years ago Trump couldn't stop talking about illegal immigration. Build a Wall! Killers and rapists! Pouring into the country by the thousands every day! God save us!

This year - crickets. Trump figured out he needed Latino voters.

Four years ago Trump lost the popular vote - why? Because of massive in-person voter fraud! Bus loads of people going to other states to vote more than once! Some one votes, goes outside and puts on a different hat and goes back in to vote again. Rampant! IT must be stopped!

This year - must vote in person so it's secure.

Trump knew he was going to lose in 2020, so he attacked mail-in votes. Massive, corrupt! People voting thousands of times! Just take copies of your vote and send it again as many times as you like! Voting machines corrupt - but only in swing states!

And, no matter what side you are on, we humans eat it up.

What is Trump going to tell us to be afraid of next?
 
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hexumhawk said:
Agree there would be some level of inconvenience at times but I think it would be minimal and worth it for the overall process. I would be willing to find an hour to vote if it meant more people trusted the process.
Click to expand...

Even if every single person voted in person, there'd still be plenty of claims of fraud that people still would believe:
  • The machine did not register my vote properly/switched my vote.
  • Some people voted at multiple locations
  • Some locations were requiring multiple forms of identification (e.g., an Iowa football player said that a poll watcher tried to prevent him from voting because he didn't have his driver's license, but all he needed per Iowa state law was his voter ID card)
  • Some locations weren't enforcing voter IDs
  • In person intimidation
  • Some people were not true residents of the state they were voting in
  • Poll workers told me I needed to vote at a different location which I then could not find or I could not get there before the polls closed
  • Poll workers supplied my booth with sharpies or another writing instrument that wasn't allowed and thus my ballot was rejected
If people don't want to believe the result, they'll come up with any excuse they can muster, especially when the complaining and conspiracy theories originate or are amplified by the president or presidential nominee.

There's been no credible evidence of widespread election fraud in 2020. In fact, Trump did better than even many right-leaning polls projected, and he did better than he did in 2016 in many locations where he's claiming fraud (e.g., Philadelphia). Moreover, democrats lost a handful of house seats and failed to claim the senate majority.

Forcing millions of people to wait in long lines on election day won't solve anything. Those who are untethered from reality will remain so.
 
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DrVenkman said:
where was this argument in dec 2016? Is it only because your guy won ? There was plenty to debate after 2016 but the right saw nothing wrong with the slimmest of margins and doofus Trump did nothing but talk about his 306 electoral landslide.

Be consistent.
Click to expand...

Why just go back to 2016. We had this fiasco to kick off the year. Bernie was ****ed over again!

How the Iowa caucuses fell apart and tarnished the vote
www.nbcnews.com

How the Iowa caucuses fell apart and tarnished the vote

The finger-pointing between the national and state Democratic parties goes on as voters are left out in the cold.
www.nbcnews.com www.nbcnews.com

****ed hin over in 2016 too, or did we forget already.
 
CatchPhotoRelease said:
Why just go back to 2016. We had this fiasco to kick off the year. Bernie was ****ed over again!

How the Iowa caucuses fell apart and tarnished the vote
www.nbcnews.com

How the Iowa caucuses fell apart and tarnished the vote

The finger-pointing between the national and state Democratic parties goes on as voters are left out in the cold.
www.nbcnews.com www.nbcnews.com

****ed hin over in 2016 too, or did we forget already.
Click to expand...
Bernie wasn't screwed over. Bernie lost.

This country needs to get back to centrist politicians on both sides. Biden is center-left and the GOP needs to get back to a center-right candidate.
 
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CatchPhotoRelease said:
Why just go back to 2016. We had this fiasco to kick off the year. Bernie was ****ed over again!

How the Iowa caucuses fell apart and tarnished the vote
www.nbcnews.com

How the Iowa caucuses fell apart and tarnished the vote

The finger-pointing between the national and state Democratic parties goes on as voters are left out in the cold.
www.nbcnews.com www.nbcnews.com

****ed hin over in 2016 too, or did we forget already.
Click to expand...

You can’t possibly be so stupid as to think technology problems with the Iowa Democratic caucus is in any way related to general elections, can you?

People like you are destroying our democracy, and I don’t say that lightly.
 
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