Ellingson

[daniel22]

I don't like to rip players , since they are college kids and appreciate their hard work and effort, but I have had my thoughts about him for quite some time. I just don't think he is a BIG caliber player. He is Josh Ogelsby without the ballhanding, passing or defense. I know he is a RS FR but really don't see him getting increased minutes the rest of the year or going into next. We will have a need a PG and possibly look Juco or 5th year transfer to help balance Jok's class. Also, with Fleming, Jok, Moss, Williams, Hutton and Bohannon I just see him getting spot minutes with a hope of being a shooter coming off the bench.

I think with Iowa turning over it's class and getting more athletic, I think that scholarship would be better used elsewhere and think he probably could have a better career at a smaller school.

 

[Curt Furence]

You waited until after a game where he didn't even see the floor to post this?

 

[GunnerHawk]

I wondered where he was last night but I think Fran saw in the OSU game when he played just a couple minutes that he was not quick enough against the Buckeye's athleticism. The young man can shoot pretty well but can not create off the dribble so unless he can get free off a screen he will have difficulty scoring. You saw last night with Williams, how he creates to the basket with length and quickness. I think you will see the same thing from Moss next year also. Hutton is more like Wagner, limited offensively but is very long and athletic, he will make a bigger impact against other teams best scorer.

I agree, Ellingson's scholarship would be better served with Baer. Once again, I do not want to wish him ill will because he certainly is a better player than I ever was. I knew I could not compete at a D1 level and accepted that. While on the subject, not sure Fleming is either. I would expect one of those two to transfer.

 

[Curt Furence]

After playing 15 minutes against NW he played 9,4,1,3, DNP at PSU,5, DNP @ OSU, DNP vs IU.

I agree he isn't a B1G caliber player but I just think it was an odd time to go after him. After 3 DNP in the last 4 games.

 

[HawkeyeDenny]

I don't want to be calling him Oglesby for 3 more years...transfer, have fun, and go average 20 a game at St Ambrose or somewhere...

 

[Auger]

I hate to say it but he needs to transfer. The kid could be a really good player at a school like UNI but he just doesnt have it to be a quality B1G player.

 

[thewop]

Christian Williams played some very good minutes last night, he'll be important next year.

 

[HerkyHopeful]

I hate to say it but he needs to transfer. The kid could be a really good player at a school like UNI but he just doesnt have it to be a quality B1G player.

Why UNI? I don't see him contributing anywhere D1. Sad to say, but Fran whiffed on this one.

3 point specialists are those who shoot 3s because they can't contribute much in other facets of the game. When you don't hit your 3s, they're virtually useless in winning ballgames.

 

[SLarew]

I wondered where he was last night but I think Fran saw in the OSU game when he played just a couple minutes that he was not quick enough against the Buckeye's athleticism. The young man can shoot pretty well but can not create off the dribble so unless he can get free off a screen he will have difficulty scoring. You saw last night with Williams, how he creates to the basket with length and quickness. I think you will see the same thing from Moss next year also. Hutton is more like Wagner, limited offensively but is very long and athletic, he will make a bigger impact against other teams best scorer.

I agree, Ellingson's scholarship would be better served with Baer. Once again, I do not want to wish him ill will because he certainly is a better player than I ever was. I knew I could not compete at a D1 level and accepted that. While on the subject, not sure Fleming is either. I would expect one of those two to transfer.

Considering BE didn't play against OSU, your post has no credibility. What game were you really watching??

 

[hawkeye54545]

No team has 13 guys who play big minutes. If he develops his shot can come in play a few minutes and hit a big 3 in a spot we need it then I think there is a place for someone like that.

Not even Kentucky or Duke maximize every scholly with star players. Plus it could be this kid is taking advantage of his opportunity academically to make something out of his life.

To take away that opportunity because he isn't a star player seems wrong to me.

 

[TheHawkeyeDudeAbides]

@daniel22.... Concur. Ellingson should see the writing on the wall. He is just not a part of Iowa's future. This level is beyond his skill set. Being truthful can sometimes be painful to hear and say, but we all need it to get on with life.

The real problem is if Ellingson leaves, every other Hawkeye fan believe that the scholarship should be Baer's for the rest of his career. Baer is a good and helpful bench role player but the future of the open scholarship needs to address Iowa's biggest hole in this program..... A NBA prototype POINT GUARD. I mean a 6'3" muscular, athletic PG should can dribble drive to the basket, make good assists, stop and pop a solid 15 foot jump shot, make free throws in crunch time and play sound swarming defense.

Right now, Iowa has two "average" D-1 PGs and are trying to convert a former HS CG into its future PG. The jury is out on Williams' ability to convert to a D-1 PG. Recruit Bohannon is a small ( 6'0",170), average foot speed PG who can shoot well enough and has decent to good ball handling skills but I foresee a defensive liability and he will NEVER be a top 4 conference PG during his Hawkeye career because he lacks the speed factor. I still believe Bohannon can be a very good role/ bench player at Iowa. Some fans will just dismiss my opinion saying that just wait for Connor McCaffery to arrive on campus but any critical eye will tell you that Connor is not a ball pushing quick PG. He is a SG who can occasionally handle the running of an offense and make a great pass and make a deep jump shot but he is not muscular nor fleet footed guy and he will get exploited in the physical B1G at the PG spot.

Look at the best NCAA teams and examine their rosters and stats. The better quality NCAA MBB teams usually have starting PGs that are 6'2"+ ( exception albeit Tyler Ulis) and between 190 to 200. Size and talent levels matter in basketball. Iowa is functioning with an undersized SG who may or may not make double digit scoring tallies in every game and their lead PG is a bit foot slow defensively against the conference's top PGs. Iowa's guard play has been weak and I do not count Jok as a guard because his ball handling skills are limited. Jok is a SF, period. Iowa's guards 3 point shooting is less than 34%. Gesell has only 15 made 3s this season (Dale Reed had 9 out of 20 before injury and Uhl(24) and Baer(25) have as many or more than Clemmons (24). Ellingson may be 28 out of 61 shooting field goals and 12 out of 44 from the 3 but he last hit a 3 against Purdue. He is 2 of 13 in conference games. The guy has disengaged. His defense is a liability as well.

I have mentioned this 2017 CG before and Iowa has offered him but they may not have the scholarship numbers to take him.If Ellingson transfers, give Baer a one year scholarship or have Connor pays his way for a year. Anyway, the recruit's name is JORDAN GOODWIN. He played AAU ball with Tyler Cook, Jeremiah Tilmon, and Jayson Tatum for the ST.Louis Eagles 17 under team last year. He is from Belleville (IL) Athloff HS and he is 6'3"+ 200. He plays in 3A level in IL which is like top 4A Iowa HS level. The guy is a winner and a team oriented player. He usually draws the top defensive assignments and he is quick and strong and a very good scorer and ball handler as he usually get double doubles and even triple doubles. He is likely the top IL HS 2017 recruit as Tilmon moved out of state. While his current favorite school is Illinois, he may not get an offer as fellow Belleville native 6'4" CG Javon Pickett committed in January and Peoria's Frank Williams' son 6'2" DaMonte is a likely legacy commit at PG for Illinois. Illlinois needs bigs with remaining scholarships as guards are plentiful. Purdue may also be a contender for Jordan but Tyler could recruit Jordan to Iowa.

http://www.qconline.com/sports/coll...cle_384cd297-6ac1-59aa-a718-32066d247385.html

http://www.dailyillini.com/article/...-the-biggest-news-of-illini-basketball-season

If Iowa ever hopes to win the conference title, Iowa must develop and recruit better quality (athletic) guards.

 

[TheHawkeyeDudeAbides]

Iowa needs to get aggressive in pursuing a PG like Jordan Goodwin. ILLAnnoy will ruin him as he won't develop PG skills with Williams and Lucas at point position and Jordan is not a forward at the next levels. Groce is on a major hot seat and Iowa needs to throw fuel on fire underneath his chair. Groce will not land Jeremiah Tilmon ( neither will Iowa ) as if that kid gets cleared for his poor grades, he will aim at a school for one and dones, like Kansas, UNC, Duke or Syracuse. Groce is a poor developer of talent. His kids are so disorganized.The Illini program is hot garbage right now.

That does not mean Iowa should help them rebuild. Fran, go get Jordan to visit Iowa ASAP and have Tyler, Moss,Williams, and Hutton talk to him. Jordan is the type of PG Iowa basketball needs.

 

[crHawkeye92]

Iowa needs to get aggressive in pursuing a PG like Jordan Goodwin. ILLAnnoy will ruin him as he won't develop PG skills with Williams and Lucas at point position and Jordan is not a forward at the next levels. Groce is on a major hot seat and Iowa needs to throw fuel on fire underneath his chair. Groce will not land Jeremiah Tilmon ( neither will Iowa ) as if that kid gets cleared for his poor grades, he will aim at a school for one and dones, like Kansas, UNC, Duke or Syracuse. Groce is a poor developer of talent. His kids are so disorganized.The Illini program is hot garbage right now.

That does not mean Iowa should help them rebuild. Fran, go get Jordan to visit Iowa ASAP and have Tyler, Moss,Williams, and Hutton talk to him. Jordan is the type of PG Iowa basketball needs.

Agree 100%! Iowa has been missing a next level point guard every since Fran has arrived. If this team had Tyler Ulis, there's no way we are going on a 4 game losing streak. The lack of a dynamic point guard has killed us lately.

 

[SJeagleEye]

Didn't some guy get ripped on here for saying he should be at Wartburg or similar level school? Haha

Might be correct. Need better recruits if we expect better results, that's for sure.

Match up a top tier PG to go along with Tyler Cook, and NOW you're starting something!

Agree, what a miss on Ulis, if he were on this team, we would be a serious final 4 contender.

Fran has got to find a way to get that PG somehow, someway. I'll throw in some cash to help if that is what it takes. Call Louisville, they have some decent ideas....

 

[KeyWest Tim]

Ellingson is not... nor has not been the problem.

He's a fricking Freshman.
And he is not even playing.

 

[Ihawkhoops]

IMO, Fran needs therapy to break his addiction to recruiting sub par guards. When you have a stacked team of guys who can attack off the bounce and create their own shots, you can stick a kid like Ellingson in the corner. We are miles from having that level of talent here and it is pretty obvious that we need guys who can create their own offense. You don't consistently score 1 field goal in the last 4 minutes of games because you are getting great guard play / have an abundance of scoring threats who can get their own shots outside of the offense. Sounds harsh, but we need 1-2 spots to open up as Baer deserves a scholarship and we need to add a guard capable of helping next year.

 

[Pelz28]

Ellingson would be fine with a guard like Yogi Ferrell. Just look at the team Indiana started. A dynamic pg, a post like Tyler Cook, an athletic power forward and 2 shooters. Yogi drives, creates and kicks to guys. He puts so much pressure on the defense. Iowa hasn't had that in a while.

 

[Hawk_4shur]

IMO, Fran needs therapy to break his addiction to recruiting sub par guards. When you have a stacked team of guys who can attack off the bounce and create their own shots, you can stick a kid like Ellingson in the corner. We are miles from having that level of talent here and it is pretty obvious that we need guys who can create their own offense. You don't consistently score 1 field goal in the last 4 minutes of games because you are getting great guard play / have an abundance of scoring threats who can get their own shots outside of the offense. Sounds harsh, but we need 1-2 spots to open up as Baer deserves a scholarship and we need to add a guard capable of helping next year.

Agree! Fran has the same problem Ferentz has - constantly turning away 4 & 5* players so he can recruit slow white guys with no talent. Don't these guys watch television and see what the top programs do?

 

[Carlton]

Ellingson is not... nor has not been the problem.

He's a fricking Freshman.
And he is not even playing.

Presumably Fran and his staff recruited Brady as a hot-handed shooting guard. No one expected him to be a defensive juggernaut. While I only saw one of his high school games, he brings some of the same attributes to the Hawks that Jason Bohannon brought to Wisconsin: intelligent kid, with a sense of the floor that could shoot the three and make free throws. JBO didn’t see much of the floor until he was a Junior but he had a pretty good career at Wisconsin. Brady also didn’t have a good start at Iowa as I understand he had mono and then some type of injury. I think it’s early to Crean him.

 

[hawkeyeguy69]

Christian Williams played some very good minutes last night, he'll be important next year.

Williams should have played more weeks ago. Fran said as much. Glad it finally happened. Hope CW can get us some quality minutes the remainder of the year...

 

[GunnerHawk]

Considering BE didn't play against OSU, your post has no credibility. What game were you really watching??

I was pretty sure he played for about a minute. If I recall he had a quick turnover and was yanked.

Wouldn't be the first time I have made a mistake. I recorded the game so I'll reach.

 

[Ihawkhoops]

The difference is that while Bohannon was at WI, they had Leur (sp?) and a couple other guys who got looks from the league. You can carry a kid like that on a stacked team when you have a defined role for them to play like shoot 3's when the defense collapses on your stars.

You can't be a defensive liability at this level and expect to get more than token minutes. I liked what I saw from him in the non conference (cutting to the hoop, using his left and a couple of pull up jumpers after ball faking from 3), but all that came to a crashing halt when the level of competition increased. I agree that he is still a newbie, but another year isn't going to make a shot creator. He will still need others to create open looks for him and we do not have a surplus of those guys on the roster.

 

[Ihawkhoops]

I was pretty sure he played for about a minute. If I recall he had a quick turnover and was yanked.

Wouldn't be the first time I have made a mistake. I recorded the game so I'll reach.

Ellingson played against OSU. He came in, tried to throw a bounce pass from 25 feet away that got stolen and he got yanked.

 

[Hawk68]

I don't like to rip players , since they are college kids and appreciate their hard work and effort, but I have had my thoughts about him for quite some time. I just don't think he is a BIG caliber player. He is Josh Ogelsby without the ballhanding, passing or defense. I know he is a RS FR but really don't see him getting increased minutes the rest of the year or going into next. We will have a need a PG and possibly look Juco or 5th year transfer to help balance Jok's class. Also, with Fleming, Jok, Moss, Williams, Hutton and Bohannon I just see him getting spot minutes with a hope of being a shooter coming off the bench.

I think with Iowa turning over it's class and getting more athletic, I think that scholarship would be better used elsewhere and think he probably could have a better career at a smaller school.

I had a post deleted for saying the same thing. He seems to be the type that can make 60% of his threes in practice and 10% in a game. His D is two steps slow.

 

[GunnerHawk]

Ellingson played against OSU. He came in, tried to throw a bounce pass from 25 feet away that got stolen and he got yanked.

I thought he played thanks

 

[hawkeyemark]

Ellingson played against OSU. He came in, tried to throw a bounce pass from 25 feet away that got stolen and he got yanked.

I thought before the season started that Brady Ellingson seemed the most likely candidate to become the next whipping boy at Iowa and very much hope that Brady has thick skin as he likely will never win the hearts of a fan base that can become pretty critical of its players- just ask Adam Woodbury. Brady fits the bill as a white, suburban kid from out of state.

It just seems silly to write off a player his freshman season especially when he hasn't really played all that much. Ellingson had a fine game early in the conference season against Michigan where he had his shooting stroke, defended decently and showed some good court savvy. He seemed to hit a wall and lose confidence and we really haven't seen him since that bonehead play where he threw the bad pass. Maybe Fran thought it best not to erode his confidence further but any way you slice it you can hardly judge this season as a barometer for the future.

 

[And1Hawk]

Ellingson played against OSU. He came in, tried to throw a bounce pass from 25 feet away that got stolen and he got yanked.

He did not play @ OSU and the box score proves it. The play you are describing is his intial entry into the Wisconsin game where within 30 seconds he tried to post feed JU and turned it over.

 

[Quadhawk]

Didn't some guy get ripped on here for saying he should be at Wartburg or similar level school? Haha

Might be correct. Need better recruits if we expect better results, that's for sure.

Match up a top tier PG to go along with Tyler Cook, and NOW you're starting something!

Agree, what a miss on Ulis, if he were on this team, we would be a serious final 4 contender.

Fran has got to find a way to get that PG somehow, someway. I'll throw in some cash to help if that is what it takes. Call Louisville, they have some decent ideas....

We will not be getting your top tier pg until Conner M. shows up in a year. Since when has Tyler Cook become the second coming? Love his potential but that is all you can go on, not like his HS stats blowing up for all you arm chair recruiting experts. What makes Fleming so awesome to push Brady out? Seems to me he is another PTL legend at this point. What makes Hutton so great or Moss for that matter? Lay off Brady E., he has just lost a lil confidence.

 

[EpenesaEpenesa]

We will not be getting your top tier pg until Conner M. Shows up in a year..

Top tier? I'm curious what puts him in that category, not judging, just asking

 

[SDHawkDoc]

I haven't seen anything in the brief time he's had on the floor that impressed. Doesn't mean he's a bust. Doesn't mean he'll ever be a significant contributor either. I'm much more interested to see what the red shirts and guys coming in next year can do.

 

[Quadhawk]

Top tier? I'm curious what puts him in that category, not judging, just asking

I believe that is what the coaching staff thinks, since he is a top 100 recruit. Maybe I am wrong but with Williams, Bohanan, and Conner they are committed to three pgs.

 

[Ihawkhoops]

He did not play @ OSU and the box score proves it. The play you are describing is his intial entry into the Wisconsin game where within 30 seconds he tried to post feed JU and turned it over.

You are correct, had the games confused.

 

[HoustonREDHawk]

So, are the posters, who want Ellingson to leave, suggesting that Fran follow tan Tommy's strategy of Creaning players?

 

[TheHawkeyeDudeAbides]

I believe that is what the coaching staff thinks, since he is a top 100 recruit. Maybe I am wrong but with Williams, Bohanan, and Conner they are committed to three pgs.

First, Connor McCaffery does not look like a PG at 6'5" and long and lanky. He can get away with that label in an Iowa HS but he dribble too high and loose and he is not lightning quick. A point guard has to have a quick and dribble very strong and hard with the basketball. Connor, IMHO, is a SG. Very good passer and his coach's son BB IQ will help him and the team in the long term.

Secondly, Bohannon is an undersized shooting PG who make good passes but may not be the most physical PG. Not Clemmons physical and may be grow into Gesell physical in time. Question is can he fight thru screens on defense to guard top level B1G PGs. Bohannon should be able to contribute a good outside shot and run the offense. Not sure if he will ever be a permanent starter.

Williams was a point forward/ SG in IL HS BB at the 2A level. He is a CG learning the PG spot and the Iowa way of running the offense. He knows how to score but will he fully settle in to the PG role. Time will tell. He may end up a better fit at SG but Iowa has a log jam there for the future. Moss, Fleming, Ellingson and Connor in 2018. Something's gotta give.

 

[Ihawkhoops]

I am not advocating for him to leave or for Fran to ask him. Fran is not that kind of coach and I respect that. Crean cleaned house at IU and jettisoned some sketchy guys with a history of issues. Who are these players he 'cut' because they lacked talent? Before throwing stones, do you recall Pat Ingram and Kyle Meyer? Both 'pursued other opportunities' in Fran's words.

I don't think he should have been offered in the first place. Save that scholarship for a better player, a juco, a kid who changes his mind after a coaching change, i.e. someone who can help us. I hope he proves me wrong and next year someone can dig this up and tell me to eat mud, but I don't see other big ten teams loading up on slow white spot up shooters. Next year we will have 3 with Elllingson, Fleming, and Bohannon. Again, you can't play the kid if he can't defend and who in the big ten is he going to guard unless we play zone? Can he create his own shot? If the answer to both is no, then Fran better have some awesome talent around him that draws double teams so he can stand on the baseline and get wide open looks. The fact that he will not put the ball on the floor without turning his back to the defender is pretty telling.

 

[Kinnick4Ever]

Ah, yes, the beautiful power of the internet. Anonymously rag on a college freshman and even suggest he transfer. Be sure to do so without having ever met the kid or his parents, known the coach or his expectations, understood the game of basketball beyond watching TV as an ignorant spectator. Pretty sad, really.

 

[jwardelt]

Presumably Fran and his staff recruited Brady as a hot-handed shooting guard. No one expected him to be a defensive juggernaut. While I only saw one of his high school games, he brings some of the same attributes to the Hawks that Jason Bohannon brought to Wisconsin: intelligent kid, with a sense of the floor that could shoot the three and make free throws. JBO didn’t see much of the floor until he was a Junior but he had a pretty good career at Wisconsin. Brady also didn’t have a good start at Iowa as I understand he had mono and then some type of injury. I think it’s early to Crean him.

J BO average 15 min/game his freshman year and 26 min/game his sophomore year. I'd say that was seeing the floor.

 

[Ihawkhoops]

Ah, yes, the beautiful power of the internet. Anonymously rag on a college freshman and even suggest he transfer. Be sure to do so without having ever met the kid or his parents, known the coach or his expectations, understood the game of basketball beyond watching TV as an ignorant spectator. Pretty sad, really.

Sweeping generalizations always work when the facts don't. I would say that I do understand basketball having played for a number of years and having a dad who coached for 25 years, but I am sure you played in the NBA, thus much greater insight.

This is a forum for opinions. No resumes required and no, I do not think I have some keen eye for talent because of my pedestrian rec league basketball career. I do know that talent matters and when our only guard depth (Ellingson, Williams, and Fleming) cannot get on the floor, that is a problem. We did not red shirt them, but they cannot contribute...that is a recruiting miss unless you have blinders on. So we run Gesell and Clemmons into the ground, don't have a guy who can create off the bounce and have 0 experience at 1 or 2 next year. IMO, that is not where Fran should be at this point in the program.

 

[WORTHYWISH]

So, are the posters, who want Ellingson to leave, suggesting that Fran follow tan Tommy's strategy of Creaning players?

Yes, I'm all for it.

 

[HerkyHopeful]

Yes, I'm all for it.

I mean if it means winning a big ten title for once then hell yes