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Excellent article by Andrew Sullivan on why, despite some of the ding dongs

Yes. Though I think as is par for the left with language the election denier claim is severely overwrought. Like racism, sexism, terf, whiteness, white privilege, colonialism, white supremacy, systemic racism, blackness, etc, election denier is a term that has been broadened to mean against the wishes of the Democratic Party. Election denier uttered by a dem means won’t agree that there was nothing wrong with the voting rules in the prior election. Voting rules that were a radical departure from all other prior elections. Voting rules that the Dems now argue if we don’t adopt forevermore means we are racist, and engaging in voter suppression. Combined with record illegal immigration, pushes to use undocumented people in census which alters representation power in states like California, and complete disregard for any sort of voting security and the argument for who is the threat to “democracy” is a bit more clear.
 
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Yes. Though I think as is par for the left with language the election denier claim is severely overwrought. Like racism, sexism, terf, whiteness, white privilege, colonialism, white supremacy, systemic racism, blackness, etc, election denier is a term that has been broadened to meaning won’t agree that there was nothing wrong with the voting rules in the prior election. Voting rules that were a radical departure from all other prior elections. Voting rules that the Dems now argue if we don’t adopt forevermore means we are racist, and engaging in voter suppression. Combined with record illegal immigration, pushes to use undocumented people in census which alters representation power in states like California, and complete disregard for any sort of voting security and the argument for who is the threat to “democracy” is a bit more clear.
Where I take exception is with the voting law changes. They were changed and for no reason except what some pols feared could happen. The fact was that in 2020 Iowa had one of its most successful voting turn outs, with damn neR ZERO violations reported, yet the Legislature decided to make more restrictive “off site” voting regulations...Non of these changes have done anything to make voting off site, safer. They have made off site voting more confusing by reducing off site locations and greatly shortening the voting window. And yes, I do believe the SC is wrong by deciding to hear state challenges to the Voting Rights 1965 law. That law corrected voting injustices and now the SC has decided irs protections are no longer warranted and represent a hardship on the state’s...that originally violated citizens right to vote. It’s a bad idea because folks whose voting rights might be abridged down the line will have to revile, rehear and retry their cases in Federal Court, so they can vote.
 
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Where I take exception is with the voting law changes. They were changed and for no reason except what some pols feared could happen. The fact was that in 2020 Iowa had one of its most successful voting turn outs, with damn neR ZERO violations reported, yet the Legislature decided to make more restrictive “off site” voting regulations...Non of these changes have done anything to make voting off site, safer. They have made off site voting more confusing by reducing off site locations and greatly shortening the voting window. And yes, I do believe the SC is wrong by deciding to hear state challenges to the Voting Rights 1965 law. That law corrected voting injustices and now the SC has decided irs protections are no longer warranted and represent a hardship on the state’s...that originally violated citizens right to vote. It’s a bad idea because folks whose voting rights might be abridged down the line will have to revile, rehear and retry their cases in Federal Court, so they can vote.
I think voting access is critical. But, my impression is some dems wish to be able to walk into a nursing home and “help” the residents who barely know their name fill out ballots so they can deliver them to team blue. Or, go to inner city areas and walk door to door, or sidewalk to sidewalk and “help” the residents fill out ballots and deliver them to team blue. I think it is a perfectly reasonable position to expect the vast majority of people to vote in person and to have limited mail in balloting. In the time piece I linked in an earlier thread, the Dems bragged about mailing a ballot to everyone in various communities. I don’t care if fraud wasn’t proven. It wasn’t disproven. And that system is not secure. More importantly, it’s getting more low information voters to vote. And, that’s not a positive. Equal opportunity to vote, yes. Hand holding of people who have no interest, no.
 
Nope. They’re a far left party in a center left country that is drifting leftward fast with the current admin.
Prove it. Your statement is utterly false and needs to be called out. Look at the rest of the world and get out of your little bubble. Go talk to others in another country and I guarantee you the vast majority say the US is far right and that the Democrats in the US are right leaning. I'm sick and tired of Republicans saying anyone who doesn't deny election results are Marxists. Get your head out of the sand
 
Prove it. Your statement is utterly false and needs to be called out. Look at the rest of the world and get out of your little bubble. Go talk to others in another country and I guarantee you the vast majority say the US is far right and that the Democrats in the US are right leaning. I'm sick and tired of Republicans saying anyone who doesn't deny election results are Marxists. Get your head out of the sand
It’s a horseshoe issue. I see myself as a classical liberal. That should be left wing. But, today, it’s not. Left proposes more and more central control. That authoritarian/freedom continuum to me defines left versus right. The more authoritarian the more leftwing the country.
 
It’s a horseshoe issue. I see myself as a classical liberal. That should be left wing. But, today, it’s not. Left proposes more and more central control. That authoritarian/freedom continuum to me defines left versus right. The more authoritarian the more leftwing the country.
So you have no clue got it. Now I know to just completely ignore everything you say
 
Where I take exception is with the voting law changes. They were changed and for no reason except what some pols feared could happen. The fact was that in 2020 Iowa had one of its most successful voting turn outs, with damn neR ZERO violations reported, yet the Legislature decided to make more restrictive “off site” voting regulations...Non of these changes have done anything to make voting off site, safer. They have made off site voting more confusing by reducing off site locations and greatly shortening the voting window. And yes, I do believe the SC is wrong by deciding to hear state challenges to the Voting Rights 1965 law. That law corrected voting injustices and now the SC has decided irs protections are no longer warranted and represent a hardship on the state’s...that originally violated citizens right to vote. It’s a bad idea because folks whose voting rights might be abridged down the line will have to revile, rehear and retry their cases in Federal Court, so they can vote.
A lot of those voting law changes are just taking things back to the way it was before covid. Others are less restrictive than California and New York. The voting rights bs was fake outrage by the left and they would never admit the truth.
 
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So you have no clue got it. Now I know to just completely ignore everything you say
Lol. If you say so. https://reason.com/2022/09/13/the-authoritarian-convergence/ what I’m saying isnt new. its central to f Hayek’s argument ww2 era. You have authoritarians on the left and right. What I’m saying is today the authoritarian issue is the primary defining feature of importance. And, today, the left has shifted from an individual freedoms party hard to a conformist authoritarian party. There’s no relevant right or left distinction in my opinion to Soviet Russia or Nazi Germany. Once you get the full on authoritarian treatment, freedom is gone. The left holds all the branches, that’s dangerous. It’s dangerous when the right does too. We need checks and balances. It’s why I tend to be relieved in elections where control is split I prefer Gridlock.
 
I think voting access is critical. But, my impression is some dems wish to be able to walk into a nursing home and “help” the residents who barely know their name fill out ballots so they can deliver them to team blue. Or, go to inner city areas and walk door to door, or sidewalk to sidewalk and “help” the residents fill out ballots and deliver them to team blue. I think it is a perfectly reasonable position to expect the vast majority of people to vote in person and to have limited mail in balloting. In the time piece I linked in an earlier thread, the Dems bragged about mailing a ballot to everyone in various communities. I don’t care if fraud wasn’t proven. It wasn’t disproven. And that system is not secure. More importantly, it’s getting more low information voters to vote. And, that’s not a positive. Equal opportunity to vote, yes. Hand holding of people who have no interest, no.
Where did this happen?

Where is the proof?
And it’s just “Dems” that indulge in this bull shit, bandit? Why is it that in Iowa, most of the voting fraud accusations (and there have been only a few) have involved Republican voters?
And you earlier accusation did NOT involve ballots, it was mailing out the “absentee registration” forms to ALL voters (if it involved Iowa)...and yes, it was “disproven” because there were no cases it was proven. There are proven safe guards in place.

Why do you think all voters should be expected to vote on Election Day...why shouldn’t they be allowed to vote early if it is convenient for them to do so?
 
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Where did this happen?

Where is the proof?
And it’s just “Dems” that indulge in this bull shit, bandit? Why is it that in Iowa, most of the voting fraud accusations (and there have been only a few) have involved Republican voters?
And you earlier accusation did NOT involve ballots, it was mailing out the “absentee registration” forms to ALL voters (if it involved Iowa)...and yes, it was “disproven” because there were no cases it was proven. There are proven safe guards in place.

Why do you think all voters should be expected to vote on Election Day...why shouldn’t they be allowed to vote early if it is convenient for them to do so?

I’ve personally witnessed nursing home shenanigans.

From the time piece.

SECURING THE VOTE​

The first task was overhauling America’s balky election infrastructure–in the middle of a pandemic. For the thousands of local, mostly nonpartisan officials who administer elections, the most urgent need was money. They needed protective equipment like masks, gloves and hand sanitizer. They needed to pay for postcards letting people know they could vote absentee–or, in some states, to mail ballots to every voter. They needed additional staff and scanners to process ballots.
 
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A lot of those voting law changes are just taking things back to the way it was before covid. Others are less restrictive than California and New York. The voting rights bs was fake outrage by the left and they would never admit the truth.
No DooBi, that is not what is happening here. But, I am not going to argue with you about it here and now.
 
I’ve personally witnessed nursing home shenanigans.

From the time piece.

SECURING THE VOTE​

The first task was overhauling America’s balky election infrastructure–in the middle of a pandemic. For the thousands of local, mostly nonpartisan officials who administer elections, the most urgent need was money. They needed protective equipment like masks, gloves and hand sanitizer. They needed to pay for postcards letting people know they could vote absentee–or, in some states, to mail ballots to every voter. They needed additional staff and scanners to process ballots.
Because in SOME states (Oregon, I believe) you vote by mail.
 
I’ve personally witnessed nursing home shenanigans.

From the time piece.

SECURING THE VOTE​

The first task was overhauling America’s balky election infrastructure–in the middle of a pandemic. For the thousands of local, mostly nonpartisan officials who administer elections, the most urgent need was money. They needed protective equipment like masks, gloves and hand sanitizer. They needed to pay for postcards letting people know they could vote absentee–or, in some states, to mail ballots to every voter. They needed additional staff and scanners to process ballots.
Just curious....what is this “time piece” you quote here?
 
I’ve personally witnessed nursing home shenanigans.

From the time piece.

SECURING THE VOTE​

The first task was overhauling America’s balky election infrastructure–in the middle of a pandemic. For the thousands of local, mostly nonpartisan officials who administer elections, the most urgent need was money. They needed protective equipment like masks, gloves and hand sanitizer. They needed to pay for postcards letting people know they could vote absentee–or, in some states, to mail ballots to every voter. They needed additional staff and scanners to process ballots.
What a load of bullshit. Now you're complaining about just telling people they can vote absentee. JFC.
 
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What’s happening here is the left was able to change voting rules under the guise of emergency. They liked the results and want to make those changes permanent and you’re a racist engaging in voter suppression if you don’t agree that little ms blue hair can go to inner city Detroit and go pick up mailed out ballots from whomever.
 
That’s a nice article. Here is my perception of the current state of politics. The left is center left to left and has allowed itself to be branded as far left by the right. I received a mailing from the Iowa Republican Party that said Bohannon wants to completely abolish the police. People believe that stuff. Democrats simply refuse to deny and fight back. Perhaps that’s because they don’t want to alienate the far left.

Meanwhile a large minority of the Republican Party absolutely embrace the far right, while the center says we don’t want the police abolished so they pull the lever for the Republican.
 
That’s a nice article. Here is my perception of the current state of politics. The left is center left to left and has allowed itself to be branded as far left by the right. I received a mailing from the Iowa Republican Party that said Bohannon wants to completely abolish the police. People believe that stuff. Democrats simply refuse to deny and fight back. Perhaps that’s because they don’t want to alienate the far left.

Meanwhile a large minority of the Republican Party absolutely embrace the far right, while the center says we don’t want the police abolished so they pull the lever for the Republican.
I think, because of the news cycles and silos that both right and left side of the aisle types perceive that the other party is driven by their extremes. To some extent, I suppose that both are correct. I don’t agree that the left remains center left for the reasons articulated in Sullivan’s article. I am troubled that people like MTG represent us. I am also troubled that we have reps like Ilhan Omar who might as well be representing our enemies. There’s plenty of crazy elected to office on both sides.

I’ve been hoping the center left would reign in the crazy. That definitely hasn’t happened during the Biden admin at all. This drives polarization on the right. Conservatives are typically reactive. And, the left wants the right to move further right because they think they can win against it. Quite the game of Russian roulette.

we need more Andrew Sullivan and less Joy Reid from the media. But, at least on Twitter, she’s got 2 million followers and Sullivan a few hundred thousand.
 
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What a load of bullshit. Now you're complaining about just telling people they can vote absentee. JFC.
I’m complaining about encouraging mail in voting and making ballots to people in non special circumstances. I’m also complaining about mailing ballots to people who didn’t request them. I’m complaining about ballot harvesting. I’m complaining about bussing people to vote with incentivizes. Etc.
 
I think, because of the news cycles and silos that both right and left side of the aisle types perceive that the other party is driven by their extremes. To some extent, I suppose that both are correct. I don’t agree that the left remains center left for the reasons articulated in Sullivan’s article. I am troubled that people like MTG represent us. I am also troubled that we have reps like Ilhan Omar who might as well be representing our enemies. There’s plenty of crazy elected to office on both sides.

I’ve been hoping the center left would reign in the crazy. That definitely hasn’t happened during the Biden admin at all. This drives polarization on the right. Conservatives are typically reactive. And, the left wants the right to move further right because they think they can win against it. Quite the game of Russian roulette.

we need more Andrew Sullivan and less Joy Reid from the media. But, at least on Twitter, she’s got 2 million followers and Sullivan a few hundred thousand.
The electoral college needs to go away and maybe a third party would have a chance in the White House. A fiscally conservative socially progressive candidate would do very well an election that wasn’t controlled by the extremes in the nomination.
 
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The electoral college needs to go away and maybe a third party would have a chance in the White House. A fiscally conservative socially progressive candidate would do very well an election that wasn’t controlled by the extremes in the nomination.
Not the current version of socially progressive. Early 2000s/90s version, yes. I agree. The current version of dei is a problem and the gender stuff is obnoxious.

I do not agree that we should get rid of the electoral college. We have three branches of gov. The electoral college is designed to maintain balance.
 
I’m complaining about encouraging mail in voting and making ballots to people in non special circumstances. I’m also complaining about mailing ballots to people who didn’t request them. I’m complaining about ballot harvesting. I’m complaining about bussing people to vote with incentivizes. Etc.
You were complaining about informing people of absentee voting. Most of you far right wingers want to abolish absentee voting and make it only on election day at the polls. The reason? Not to have secure voting but as another effort to secure power for the republican party. Absentee voting has been going on for decades without significant incident but a bunch of you bought into Trump's lies and now see this as an opportunity to produce lower voter turnout which helps the right wing cause. You should be complaining about these attempts rather than non-existent issues that your propaganda spews.
 
Not the current version of socially progressive. Early 2000s/90s version, yes. I agree. The current version of dei is a problem and the gender stuff is obnoxious.

I do not agree that we should get rid of the electoral college. We have three branches of gov. The electoral college is designed to maintain balance.
What do you consider to be the policies or platforms embraced by the majority of Democrats that are "far left"?
 
I’m complaining about encouraging mail in voting and making ballots to people in non special circumstances. I’m also complaining about mailing ballots to people who didn’t request them. I’m complaining about ballot harvesting. I’m complaining about bussing people to vote with incentivizes. Etc.
Republicans in Florida have encouraged mail in ballots for decades and have been damn successful at utilizing it. It’s only been since orange man couldn’t accept defeat that my party has started crying over it.
 
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