Expanding the playoffs (both CFP and March Madness)

[Mountain Man Hawk]

This is a good article about the current state of college sports. It includes an overview of all the reasons schools really need to maximize revenue right now (impending multi-billion dollar lawsuits they will likely settle out of court before it goes to trial and then of course going forward they will have to share all revenue with the players).

The obvious way to get more money is more playoff games, with the money from those games going to the conference of the schools that play in the games.

On the football side, the SEC is pushing for all 12 CFP spots to be at-large with no auto-bids for any conferences. The B1G proposal is to just expand the field to 16 with a 5+11 model, which essentially does the same thing and theoretically allows any conference a shot at up to 12 spots.

The Big12 and ACC in a similar line of thinking want to expand the basketball tournament because that is where they feel like they can earn outsized revenue. Right now roughly 40% of the spots (27 out of 68) go to small conferences. The article speculates that the power conferences could even split away and hold their own tournament so they don’t share the $$$ at all anymore with the Cinderellas, but I think that is seen as more of a nuclear option that is not the first choice for anyone.

Lots more in the article….

 

[Mountain Man Hawk]

This article says settling the outstanding lawsuits (being sued by former athletes claiming the NCAA prevented them from earning NIL during their careers) could cost $10-15m per school.

 

[hawkjt]

This article says settling the outstanding lawsuits (being sued by former athletes claiming the NCAA prevented them from earning NIL during their careers) could cost $10-15m per school.

View embedded media

If courts rule for former athletes, how soon would they rule for reparations for former slaves and native americans?
I do question the long term viability of non- top 25 college programs...the mvc and Mac type schools.

 

[LetsGoHawks83]

Aw those poor power conferences and schools aren't making enough money? I feel terrible for them. LOL.

Don't mess with the BBall tournament, it is exactly the way it should be.

CFP just expanded, so let that play out for a bit. Possibly go to 16 teams.

 

[hexumhawk]

Aw those poor power conferences and schools aren't making enough money? I feel terrible for them. LOL.

Don't mess with the BBall tournament, it is exactly the way it should be.

CFP just expanded, so let that play out for a bit. Possibly go to 16 teams.

They will mess with BB because you have large fanbase teams that are "left out" every year. I could see them adding another round or a larger play in round to get teams in like Iowa this year.

 

[Mountain Man Hawk]

Aw those poor power conferences and schools aren't making enough money? I feel terrible for them. LOL.

Don't mess with the BBall tournament, it is exactly the way it should be.

CFP just expanded, so let that play out for a bit. Possibly go to 16 teams.

Honestly that’s how I feel too. I like expanding the CFP but I’d prefer they leave March Madness alone, I like it the way it is. But the article makes it seem like a really high probability they are going to expand it so more P5 teams can get in. And conferences like the Big12 and ACC view it as the biggest lever they have to pull to get more revenue.

It will be interesting to see how they change the format of March Madness to fit in the extra games. Like would the tourney start a week earlier?

 

[xdhsgrad2002x]

I am fairly certain basketball is going to 112 teams.

48 teams get a bye

Bottom 64 -> 32 -> 16 (adds a whole weekend to the tournament)

48+16 - now you have your regular tournament

The additional weekend would bring billions

 

[ichawk24]

The schools, and particularly the coaches, have been greedy and dumb with their millions. The only solution to their money problems is to try and grab more of it.

The entire mens NCAA tournament brings in about $1B a year in TV money. Adding an extra weekend of games with teams #49 thru #112 playing games won't bring in billions. It might bring in millions.

The CFP recently found little interest in early round games. I can't believe extra worse basketball matchups are going to be in demand.

 

[ozzie8]

They will mess with BB because you have large fanbase teams that are "left out" every year. I could see them adding another round or a larger play in round to get teams in like Iowa this year.

Theyll expand it because we'd all watch it. They dont give a shit about the fanbases

 

[Mountain Man Hawk]

The schools, and particularly the coaches, have been greedy and dumb with their millions. The only solution to their money problems is to try and grab more of it.

The entire mens NCAA tournament brings in about $1B a year in TV money. Adding an extra weekend of games with teams #49 thru #112 playing games won't bring in billions. It might bring in millions.

The CFP recently found little interest in early round games. I can't believe extra worse basketball matchups are going to be in demand.

I’m also not convinced that expanding the basketball tourney is going to bring in that much more $$$$.

Which will probably then lead them to not want to be so generous in sharing the money it does generate.

Right now the March Madness money basically funds the NCAA and a bunch of that $$$$ gets shared with small schools.

But once things get desperate I think the bigger conferences are going to want to keep most of it for themselves.

There is a reason FSU and the ACC are suing each other. FSU can see that in the near future they have to pay the players and if they have less money than other conferences it would be like some NFL teams trying to compete with half as much salary cap.

That line of thinking is going to make the Big12 and ACC schools want to keep a larger slice of the pie from March Madness to make up the difference.

 

[pistachio1999]

This is a good article about the current state of college sports. It includes an overview of all the reasons schools really need to maximize revenue right now (impending multi-billion dollar lawsuits they will likely settle out of court before it goes to trial and then of course going forward they will have to share all revenue with the players).

The obvious way to get more money is more playoff games, with the money from those games going to the conference of the schools that play in the games.

On the football side, the SEC is pushing for all 12 CFP spots to be at-large with no auto-bids for any conferences. The B1G proposal is to just expand the field to 16 with a 5+11 model, which essentially does the same thing and theoretically allows any conference a shot at up to 12 spots.

The Big12 and ACC in a similar line of thinking want to expand the basketball tournament because that is where they feel like they can earn outsized revenue. Right now roughly 40% of the spots (27 out of 68) go to small conferences. The article speculates that the power conferences could even split away and hold their own tournament so they don’t share the $$$ at all anymore with the Cinderellas, but I think that is seen as more of a nuclear option that is not the first choice for anyone.

Lots more in the article….

View embedded media

Interesting discussions on CNBC yesterday regarding sports ratings shooting higher as betting has become legal, and you can do in game betting so it draws more interest throughout entire events. Legalized real time online betting is driving up ratings.

 

[NI hawk]

The only way I am in favor of expansion in basketball is if they make regular season and tournament winners automatic qualifiers. Mercer-Duke, Weber St-N. Carolina, Bucknell-Kansas games are the games I like to see. I prefer these matchups over power conference teams with a record of 7-11 vs another power conference team with a record of 9-9.. I don't like when a team has played well all year gets left out and a team that gets hot for 3 days gets a tourney bid.

 

[Dauminator]

A lot of us are against this relentless expansion, myself included. I can't imagine people getting excited for two 16-15 power 5 schools to pay the first of ten rounds of a tournament.

And yet, the numbers just keep going up, so it appears we're in the minority.

 

[KuwaitHawk]

Add one more round at the same site as the round of 64. Play Tues/Wed.

 

[ichawk24]

And yet, the numbers just keep going up, so it appears we're in the minority.

The NCAA title game set a record low last year, and the last 3 seasons make up 3 of the lowest 4.

(Note the Iowa women in the #12 highest basketball telecast in the past year, across NBA, mens, and womens.)

NCAA men's title game hits record-low, still tops hoops charts

One day after the women's tournament finished with a record-high, ratings hit a record-low for the NCAA men's basketball tournament final.

www.sportsmediawatch.com

 

[pistachio1999]

The NCAA title game set a record low last year, and the last 3 seasons make up 3 of the lowest 4.

(Note the Iowa women in the #12 highest basketball telecast in the past year, across NBA, mens, and womens.)

NCAA men's title game hits record-low, still tops hoops charts

One day after the women's tournament finished with a record-high, ratings hit a record-low for the NCAA men's basketball tournament final.

www.sportsmediawatch.com

I just can't get into college basketball like I used to. Not sure why it is. Just don't find it as interesting.

 

[MeetTheFerentzes]

I just can't get into college basketball like I used to. Not sure why it is. Just don't find it as interesting.

Maybe because your team is rarely a factor and has been abysmal overall in the postseason under the current regime???

 

[EvilMonkeyInTheCloset]

I am fairly certain basketball is going to 112 teams.

48 teams get a bye

Bottom 64 -> 32 -> 16 (adds a whole weekend to the tournament)

48+16 - now you have your regular tournament

The additional weekend would bring billions

I agree that another round would satisfy all parties.

You just had a NCG between San Diego State and UConn, with Florida Atlantic in the Final Four.

There's less than a zero percent chance that major conferences will be able to sell a split of the NCAA Tournament when half your major conferences are over-bloated, poop stains in 2024.

At least with the CFP, there's plenty of clear evidence to support a split of the P4 and the rest of the mid-majors (even though I'm against that as well).

But what makes the NCAA Tournament so unique is that first weekend where "anything can (and will) happen".

I'm absolutely open to giving more teams a chance, but as long as it's still open to EVERYONE......not just so that we can get a 17-14 Syracuse and an 18-13 Iowa team to sneak into the tournament just so they can say "hey we made it!", when a program like Virginia Tech saying that vs a program like Eastern Washington saying that means two VASTLY different things..................

I think if they add more teams, and as many more as you suggest, then I would push to give more relevance to regular season champs, meaning that ALL regular season AND conference tournament champions are AQs.

That's as few as 32 AQs and as many as 64. Then if you go 112 or even 128, that ranges from 80 to as many as 96 at-large bids to go around to the remaining 319 to 287 non-champion programs in D1.

To put that into perspective, there are currently 32 AQ bids, and 36 at-large bids to go around for any team that doesn't win their conference tournament in the 68-team model.

That would more than double the amount of at-large bids, AND still reward the mid and low major conference regular season champions, so that they didn't waste a 31-game season to only have it end on one off-night in their conference tournament. Not to mention, that gets more "good" teams (comparatively speaking) into the tournament, while still giving the opportunity for a Cinderella type run like if a sub-.500 Arkansas-Pine Bluff won the SWAC tourney and got an upset in the 1st Rd of the NCAA Tournament.

 

[Dauminator]

The NCAA title game set a record low last year, and the last 3 seasons make up 3 of the lowest 4.

(Note the Iowa women in the #12 highest basketball telecast in the past year, across NBA, mens, and womens.)

NCAA men's title game hits record-low, still tops hoops charts

One day after the women's tournament finished with a record-high, ratings hit a record-low for the NCAA men's basketball tournament final.

www.sportsmediawatch.com

Touchée. I was thinking more football when I said that.

I agree that another round would satisfy all parties.

You just had a NCG between San Diego State and UConn, with Florida Atlantic in the Final Four.

There's less than a zero percent chance that major conferences will be able to sell a split of the NCAA Tournament when half your major conferences are over-bloated, poop stains in 2024.

At least with the CFP, there's plenty of clear evidence to support a split of the P4 and the rest of the mid-majors (even though I'm against that as well).

But what makes the NCAA Tournament so unique is that first weekend where "anything can (and will) happen".

I'm absolutely open to giving more teams a chance, but as long as it's still open to EVERYONE......not just so that we can get a 17-14 Syracuse and an 18-13 Iowa team to sneak into the tournament just so they can say "hey we made it!", when a program like Virginia Tech saying that vs a program like Eastern Washington saying that means two VASTLY different things..................

I think if they add more teams, and as many more as you suggest, then I would push to give more relevance to regular season champs, meaning that ALL regular season AND conference tournament champions are AQs.

That's as few as 32 AQs and as many as 64. Then if you go 112 or even 128, that ranges from 80 to as many as 96 at-large bids to go around to the remaining 319 to 287 non-champion programs in D1.

To put that into perspective, there are currently 32 AQ bids, and 36 at-large bids to go around for any team that doesn't win their conference tournament in the 68-team model.

That would more than double the amount of at-large bids, AND still reward the mid and low major conference regular season champions, so that they didn't waste a 31-game season to only have it end on one off-night in their conference tournament. Not to mention, that gets more "good" teams (comparatively speaking) into the tournament, while still giving the opportunity for a Cinderella type run like if a sub-.500 Arkansas-Pine Bluff won the SWAC tourney and got an upset in the 1st Rd of the NCAA Tournament.

Hear hear. Honestly I don't see a need for conference tournaments at all from a sporting standpoint. I'd also like to do away with things like making two 16-seeds face off in the First Four. A full extra round probably does the job. I just hate to see those small teams denied a proper tournament appearance.

 

[Hawk_4shur]

Making the tournaments even bigger would continue to erode the interest in conference championships. Winning a P4 conference championship should be a very big deal - but now it's only about seeding in the tournaments.

But if you expand the basketball tournament, I'd like to see an entire round of "play-in" games. Highly competitive games between the higher seeds to get into the 64 team bracket. You could have 80 teams, with the highest 32 teams playing on Tues/Wed to get into the bracket of 64.

 

[EvilMonkeyInTheCloset]

Making the tournaments even bigger would continue to erode the interest in conference championships. Winning a P4 conference championship should be a very big deal - but now it's only about seeding in the tournaments.

But if you expand the basketball tournament, I'd like to see an entire round of "play-in" games. Highly competitive games between the higher seeds to get into the 64 team bracket. You could have 80 teams, with the highest 32 teams playing on Tues/Wed to get into the bracket of 64.

As conferences expand, honestly, I don't know how conference tournaments are even feasible, let alone necessary.