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Federal employee salaries lag by average of 31 percent, pay group reports

cigaretteman

HR King
May 29, 2001
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Federal employee salaries on average lag behind those of the private sector by almost 31 percent, an advisory council said Tuesday, while splitting between union and non-union members on whether to recommend potential changes in the way it arrives at that figure.

The average salary difference of 30.91 percent reported by the Federal Salary Council is somewhat smaller than the 31.86 percent it reported at a special meeting it held April. The figures of prior years were in the 34 to 35 percent range.

Those figures, based on two Labor Department surveys covering some 250 occupations, stand in contrast to assessments of some conservative and libertarian organizations that have concluded that the advantage is about the same or even greater in favor of federal employees.

The Congressional Budget Office last year essentially split the difference. It found an average advantage for federal workers of 3 percent, although within that average it said there is a wide range by educational level: from a 34 percent advantage for federal workers with a high school education or less to a 24 percent shortfall for those with a professional degree or doctorate.

Under a federal pay law, the “pay gap” as measured by the Salary Council is to be used in setting annual raises varying by locality for federal employees under the General Schedule, the pay system covering most white-collar employees below the executive levels. However, that law never has been followed due to the potential cost of paying such large raises and disagreements over how the figure is calculated.

In an August message to Congress, President Trump said that following the law’s formula would result in locality-based raises in January 2019 averaging 25.7 percent plus an across-the-board raise of 2.1 percent, at a cost of $25 billion. “Federal agency budgets cannot sustain such increases,” Trump’s said in backing a pay freeze that he originally proposed in a budget plan early this year.

A House-Senate conference underway on a spending bill will decide between a freeze and a Senate provision to pay an average 1.9 percent raise. Unless Congress passes, and Trump signs, a bill specifying a raise, salaries will be frozen by default. If the raise is enacted, it would vary slightly among 44 city areas and what is called the “rest of the U.S.” locality everywhere else; employees working in the Washington-Baltimore area would stand to receive one of the larger raises, probably around 2.3 percent.

The long-running controversy over comparing salaries flared at Tuesday’s meeting of the Salary Council, a group of federal employee unions and compensation experts whose decisions typically are unanimous.

A “working group” document produced since the April meeting laid out a series of potential changes for consideration by a higher-level body called the President’s Pay Agent. Those options included adding more detailed data on salaries by occupation and level of work, taking into account other data such as attrition rates, switching to a “total compensation” approach taking benefits into account, and conducting a very detailed review only once every four or five years — the latter two of which would require a change in law.

Council chairman Ron Sanders, a longtime career federal personnel official who is now a clinical professor at the University of South Florida School of Public Affairs, argued in favor of exploring those options. “I think it’s obvious to all of us that the current methodology is problematic,” he said.

“That methodology does not tell the whole story,” Sanders said. “It’s nice to say there’s a 30 percent gap. If OMB [the Office of Management and Budget] doesn’t believe it, the White House doesn’t believe it, the Congress doesn’t believe it, what good does it do?”

He pointed to the testimony of officials of federal agencies from several urban and rural areas not now receiving higher city-based locality pay, who told of their difficulties in recruiting and retaining employees despite using special hiring authorities and incentive payments. However, the current process doesn’t support specific salary rates for them, he said.

Two other members supported exploring the options: Katja Bullock, associate director of presidential personnel, and Jill Nelson, who leads an advisory committee on pay for blue-collar federal employees.

However, members from federal unions argued against changing the calculations and questioned whether the group even has the authority to raise new options for consideration. “I don’t think the methodology is broken,” said J. David Cox Sr., president of the American Federation of Government Employees.

“The elephant in the room is the Congress and the president over time not funding the pay system” as the law intended, said Randy L. Erwin, president of the National Federation of Federal Employees. Anthony M. Reardon, president of the National Treasury Employees Union, expressed concern that including the value of federal benefits “will be used as a justification to reduce those benefits.”

The council adjourned without voting on whether to recommend that the Pay Agent consider different approaches. Afterward, Sanders said that in the annual report to that higher-level body to be made by year’s end, individual members of the Salary Council could express their own opinions.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...ent-pay-group-reports/?utm_term=.ec130f562893
 
This is nonsense! The fastest growing industry during the Obama years was Government. Their pay was outpacing everything else and Washington was one of the fastest growing cities in the U.S. Housing prices in Washington were soaring ... and still are, indicating increasing demand as people were moving there for the economic opportunity that swirled around the area. (That opportunity was government spending and even if you did not work directly for the government, you wanted to somehow share in the trickle down government largess.

... and then there are the benefits offered by government that are unmatched in the private sector. Immunity from being fired, pensions, student loan forgiveness programs, and on and on. This is probably an entirely different thread but it is a vast topic, since federal workers seem to be always grasping for all sorts of perks which involve education, training, travel, and time off.
 
Granted, I am not in Washington DC...but if you have ever tried to hire someone for a job that has been working for the federal government, or state government, it becomes clear right away that while their base salary may, or may not, be on par with a comparable position in the private sector...by the time you get done figuring up all of the other benefits that they receive, that they by and large are being treated very well relative to the local market.

If these poor chaps are being stiffed so badly how come there aren't a lot of federal jobs open?
 
Why shouldn't the people tasked with keeping the country running be compensated well? In your own words, please.

1. I don't believe in federal govt employee unions (much like Jimmy Carter)
2. I want our govt to run as lean as possible and understand headcount is typically an organizations highest expense burden (I know, crazy right)
3. The headline seems to be talking about wage gap only and not total compensation so these figures mean dick until we see those numbers (aka I am not about to be outraged by partially told story)

I did find this line interesting: The Congressional Budget Office last year essentially split the difference. It found an average advantage for federal workers of 3 percent, although within that average it said there is a wide range by educational level: from a 34 percent advantage for federal workers with a high school education or less to a 24 percent shortfall for those with a professional degree or doctorate.

So Flick if the statement above is true do you think the HS diploma folks should give up their 34% wage advantage so those with advanced degrees can get closer to their private sector peers? The challenge I have here is you seem to be suggesting you want it both ways and, well, that doesn't work in real life. So you can live in fantasy land where there is no wage disparity or you are welcome to join the rest of us here in the real world.

Hell maybe some of these jobs are easier than the private sector and are perfect for people who are looking at stepping down in their job pressures and looking for a job to move down to pre-retirement. I am 5-10 years away from looking for this sort of opportunity as what I am saving today will soon be weighed by what I can save on an annual basis. At some point the added money I can save and the stuff I can buy with higher earnings become less and less important, a low stress govt job wouldn't be a bad deal at that point in time.
 
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Many wrongs here. Lower level jobs are probably better off than public sector peers due to benefits. However, middle and higher level jobs are far behind public sector and if you add in the benefits they still lag. There is tons of gov jobs open right now. Some they can't fill at the mid-to-high level due to the lack of talented applicants... talented folks don't want to take less to work for the gov. Loan repayment is only good for select jobs like nursing, etc. Someone working in HR or logistics isn't getting loans repaid. Time off isn't that much different than private sector either until you have 15+ years in and even then I'd guess most people with that much time in a private sector job would have a nice vacation allotment too. The two biggest advantages is a pension and medical. Still compensation lags even with those unless at a lower-tiered position.
 
Dems should campaign on giving all federal employees a 31% raise.

Between that and giving everybody $1000 a month I think the left will stop bitching about the Trump tax cut.

Oh yeah, my ass.
 
I find it funny when people disparage government workers and complain about how great their benefits and jobs are.

If they are so great, why don't you go work for them?
 
This is nonsense! The fastest growing industry during the Obama years was Government. Their pay was outpacing everything else and Washington was one of the fastest growing cities in the U.S. Housing prices in Washington were soaring ... and still are, indicating increasing demand as people were moving there for the economic opportunity that swirled around the area. (That opportunity was government spending and even if you did not work directly for the government, you wanted to somehow share in the trickle down government largess.

... and then there are the benefits offered by government that are unmatched in the private sector. Immunity from being fired, pensions, student loan forgiveness programs, and on and on. This is probably an entirely different thread but it is a vast topic, since federal workers seem to be always grasping for all sorts of perks which involve education, training, travel, and time off.
LOL
 
I find it funny when people disparage government workers and complain about how great their benefits and jobs are.

If they are so great, why don't you go work for them?
Likely are none available in the areas they live.

Can easily be flipped around to “leave if you don’t like a fed job”.

I hope they don’t fill the positions, we have a lot of debt.
 
And let's not forget the wonder defined benefit plans these assholes get.:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

 
This is nonsense! The fastest growing industry during the Obama years was Government. Their pay was outpacing everything else and Washington was one of the fastest growing cities in the U.S. Housing prices in Washington were soaring ... and still are, indicating increasing demand as people were moving there for the economic opportunity that swirled around the area. (That opportunity was government spending and even if you did not work directly for the government, you wanted to somehow share in the trickle down government largess.

... and then there are the benefits offered by government that are unmatched in the private sector. Immunity from being fired, pensions, student loan forgiveness programs, and on and on. This is probably an entirely different thread but it is a vast topic, since federal workers seem to be always grasping for all sorts of perks which involve education, training, travel, and time off.

Please back ANY of that up............because the Health Industry, IT Industry, etc. (basically all SERVICE industries) have been the fastest growing since the 1990's. Government is far, far behind them.
 
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Why shouldn't the people tasked with keeping the country running be compensated well? In your own words, please.

They already are compensated well. They frequently aren't doing a good job. There are too many of them employed for the job they do.

I get the impression that a lot of the most prolific posting members of HROT are government employees. If true, that says a great deal to me, and squares with my experience during my short duration as a government employee.
 
I get the impression that a lot of the most prolific posting members of HROT are government employees. If true, that says a great deal to me, and squares with my experience during my short duration as a government employee.

Lol, the guy who actually was a govt. employee, with 7400 posts, shitting on people whose employment he knows nothing about because of their post count. Sounds like you're projecting.
 
Lol, the guy who actually was a govt. employee, with 7400 posts, shitting on people whose employment he knows nothing about because of their post count. Sounds like you're projecting.

Nice try. Member since 2001, with 7,000 posts--that is practically a non-existent pace of posting compared to most around here. A lot of the people on here who clearly don't work in the private sector have 5-10 times (or more) as many posts as I do, a good share of them made during the work day obviously.

And guess what? I'm self employed. Every post I make (day or night) instead of working costs ME money, not the taxpaying citizens. Yes, I was a government employee (engineering coop) for 8 months or so during engineering school. I saw enough of the lack of productivity and went into the private sector instead.
 
Nice try. Member since 2001, with 7,000 posts--that is practically a non-existent pace of posting compared to most around here. A lot of the people on here who clearly don't work in the private sector have 5-10 times (or more) as many posts as I do, a good share of them made during the work day obviously.

And guess what? I'm self employed. Every post I make (day or night) instead of working costs ME money, not the taxpaying citizens. Yes, I was a government employee (engineering coop) for 8 months or so during engineering school. I saw enough of the lack of productivity and went into the private sector instead.

Explain away all you want. You post during the work day the same as the rest of us. I've never had a govt. job, wouldn't mind having one, would be proud if I did, and certainly don't look down on anyone with one. Nothing lower in my estimation than someone who judges another by the work they do.
 
Explain away all you want. You post during the work day the same as the rest of us. I've never had a govt. job, wouldn't mind having one, would be proud if I did, and certainly don't look down on anyone with one. Nothing lower in my estimation than someone who judges another by the work they do.

Spin away Flick, spin away. I've posted an average of about one post per day during my time on rivals, vast majority at night. Every post on MY dime, not the taxpayers. Some on here posts dozens of posts per day during work hours. The ones that do that on taxpayer dollars kind of goes against the notion that they are highly efficient and under paid. I don't judge anyone by the work that they do. I do think it reflects on the reality of the situation if they are being paid with taxpayer dollars to not work and then pretend that they are underpaid. I've seen plenty of government inefficiency first hand. I'm not buying that most government employees are underpaid.
 
My anecdotal evidence:

I have interviewed for both government and private sector positions in the last five years for positions requiring graduate level education in my field.

The offers from the private sector were much more lucrative, including benefits.
 
My anecdotal evidence:

I have interviewed for both government and private sector positions in the last five years for positions requiring graduate level education in my field.

The offers from the private sector were much more lucrative, including benefits.
Always will be. The only real positives in gov is once you have the time in to be vested you have more stability in your position than in private sector where you can be fired or laid off at any time if things go south for that business.
 
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Nice try. Member since 2001, with 7,000 posts--that is practically a non-existent pace of posting compared to most around here. A lot of the people on here who clearly don't work in the private sector have 5-10 times (or more) as many posts as I do, a good share of them made during the work day obviously.

And guess what? I'm self employed. Every post I make (day or night) instead of working costs ME money, not the taxpaying citizens. Yes, I was a government employee (engineering coop) for 8 months or so during engineering school. I saw enough of the lack of productivity and went into the private sector instead.

Painting with a pretty broad brush for all of it based upon an 8 month internship from college.
 
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Painting with a pretty broad brush for all of it based upon an 8 month internship from college.

Not my only experiences with government employees. My father had a military career. I've done and will do contract work for the government. I have friends who are government employees at various levels. Many of them are very dedicated hard working people. Many complain of others that aren't. That doesn't change anything I've said.
 
So if the federal Union jobs are 31% below private sector, that means the workers would be better off leaving the union because it has failed.
 
Many wrongs here. Lower level jobs are probably better off than public sector peers due to benefits. However, middle and higher level jobs are far behind public sector and if you add in the benefits they still lag. There is tons of gov jobs open right now. Some they can't fill at the mid-to-high level due to the lack of talented applicants... talented folks don't want to take less to work for the gov. Loan repayment is only good for select jobs like nursing, etc. Someone working in HR or logistics isn't getting loans repaid. Time off isn't that much different than private sector either until you have 15+ years in and even then I'd guess most people with that much time in a private sector job would have a nice vacation allotment too. The two biggest advantages is a pension and medical. Still compensation lags even with those unless at a lower-tiered position.

This. The fed vs private argument is usually made by people who have no idea what they're even arguing. People who clean up shit are much better off in a government job while professionals are not paid as well. We can start our comparison with the president and go down from there. At some point it reverses.
 
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I’ve dealt with enough govt employees to know they’re, for the most part, overpaid worthless fvcks. Yes, I’m very jaded, but if you dealt with them at the frequency I do, you would be to.
 
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You also have to remember that the union, for federal gov anyway, only represents lower to mid tier employees. And, within that group only roughly 40-50% are actually part of the union as its not mandatory. In recent years, the union has had rules put into place to really limit what they can do as well.
 
I’ve dealt with enough govt employees to know they’re, for the most part, overpaid worthless fvcks. Yes, I’m very jaded, but if you dealt with them at the frequency I do, you would be to.

Boom. Not all agencies obviously but the majority of people who work for the government are lazy mfers.
 
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