Flat! Flat! Flat!
- Thread starter ia.sd.wi.hawk
- Start date
Based on what I just saw we can all look forward to another 4th place finish at nationals
Disband the team!!
Fire the coaches!!!!!
Change the school colors to orange!!!!!
Put a dress on the Gable statue!!!!!!
Set backs are always fatal!!!!!
No team loses a dual and has a chance at a title!!!!!!
Every team is better than Iowa!!!!!
Does Iowa have a table tennis team?
Fire the coaches!!!!!
Change the school colors to orange!!!!!
Put a dress on the Gable statue!!!!!!
Set backs are always fatal!!!!!
No team loses a dual and has a chance at a title!!!!!!
Every team is better than Iowa!!!!!
Does Iowa have a table tennis team?
I'm trying to think of the last season where we were wrestling better at tend instead of the beginning.
REALLY wish we had at least one flashy/athletic guy on the team. we have a bunch of grinders but few of them are as effective as Gilman at it.
Posts like these, that are meant to shut down valid opinions of problems we've witnessed over the last 5 years is just ignorant. Who's going to be held accountable?
Have to say, the coaching staff deserves some criticism for this performance. It's their job to have the guys ready to go, and few were.
I agree. To pretend that tonight wasn't a complete and utter meltdown and, instead, mock fans who are paying attention in some holier-than-thou way, is pretty weak. That said, it's also a low-hanging fruit, and some will always seize that opportunity to be the "level-headed" fan, looking down their noses on the rest of us. Predictable.
Ignorant? My ass.
The wrestlers are accountable. The coaches are.
The essence of wrestling is overcoming adversity. Too many fans want it easy. Yes, we looked like crap tonight. Yes, we have had issues in the past. However, to say it is over or we have no chance is ignorance of the highest order. Metcalf lost at big10 but came back to win. Imar got pinned. You counting him out? What I see on this board by some is simple fair weather fans wearing gable glasses wishing the past would come back. Ever thought about seeing the challenge and raising to it? Ever thought that being positive is a more productive way? No, you want to kick when things go wrong. My post was not to counter anything skip. It was a reflection of the cowardly post I have been seeing. The team needs to man up and fix this. Some fans need to man up as well.
Your sarcasm might be warranted if this wasn't a clear pattern at this point in the season for awhile now.
Your examples are flimsy at best. Metcalf losing to Palmer was an aberration, and you know it. None of us doubted that he'd bounce back. Same with IMar. If this team had anything remotely close to either guy, you might have a point. News flash -- it doesn't.
This isn't about wanting anything easy. This is about competing like you know you can. This team didn't do that tonight, with very few exceptions. I thought that was pretty obvious.
Disagree. I am paying attention and see the problem. I am just not predicting the sky to fall. Not holly nor weak. As a fan, I have faith. Until the scores show Iowa is out, I am in. I never said anything about the dual. Just sick and tired of negative people concidering themselves knowledgable, current or paying attention. Being a fan is not just about pragmatism. Yes, we fell tonight. I just choose to look for the get up. If that makes me "not paying attention", fine. But that is a crap load better than being armchair coach preaching doom.
Metcalf got beat. Aberration? He got beat. 2nd in the big 10 because he did not execute. Imar was flat and got stuck. He got beat. We don't have either on the team true but I still believe. Maybe they won't get up. It's a long season and you have to trust it. Things can happen. 97 was supposed to be an underachieving team.
Yea, it is a pattern of late. Patterns change. You want to throw in the towel, whatever. I am. It ready to.
Brands has shown working the piss out of people has diminishing results.
The unanswered and puzzling fact remains; WHY and ask (why) does a program of this caliber have 3-4 weights that are black holes? 141, 157, 165 this year. Getting nothin from them. I know theyre good kids and work theyre asses off etc. etc. but this aint romper room boys. In other years its 3-4 other weights. Same ol song every year. Iowa should have no problem having 10 weights w/ top 5 guys every single year. Period!! See the Gable years and PSU currently. Losing to NCST at home.....? C'mon man. This is on TnT. On the recruiting trail continue to underachieve as the team did tonight sans a couple guys. Not being negative here just trying to keep it real. This is the puzzling truth. I am positive %95 of the time but this loss and more than a few others in the last 5 years have me questioning the overall dynamic as far as leadership.
Oh, and go back and read some of the post on metcalf. There were people saying Palmer had his number.
I think what your seeing is a cumulative effect of "here we go again" after the past 5 seasons. We look pretty good for the most part during the dual season then the guys seem to crap their pants down the stretch. I don't think fans are giving up or throwing in the towel and there's certainly a lot of wrestling to come but can you really blame folks for getting a little gun shy this time of year? It doesnt help that Penn St has clearly taken over as king of the mountain and we have to be constantly reminded of that by a lot of their "johnny come lately" fans.
No, it isn't. Just overcast today, with a chance of a blizzard in the 12 day outlook.
Hard to know what your point even is here. It's pretty clear to me that this team doesn't have the firepower to win Nationals. If you're arguing that they do, I guess we'll have to disagree. I think the main question is whether we finish in the top 4, frankly.
The point about Metcalf is that he lost a very close match to an outstanding wrester in Palmer -- but still a guy Metcalf owned outside of that one match. Not surprisingly, he owned him again at Nationals. Yes, IMar got beat -- by Nolf, who's a wrecking ball this year and destroying everyone. That said, we all know IMar is pretty much a lock for the finals, and if you think Nolf is sticking him again, I'd love to take that bet. He and Nolf are head and shoulders above everyone else at 157. I'm not sure what it proves to claim that he lost to a complete stud like Nolf, except that his only loss in his career to date was to a phenomenal wrestler. Of course, he's beating everyone again, and his next two matches with Nolf will be barn-burners.
The 97 team doesn't resemble this team in any way, shape, or form, just as they don't even remotely resemble a Metcalf or an IMar. So I don't see the point of your comparisons. They're not even apples and oranges -- they're more like broccoli and a Chevy pick-up.
Good post. I saw another about working guys to the ground. Interesting questions. Are we getting the wrong guys or are they working themselves out of it. Overtraining? Travis Fiser said in Gable Supreme that when you step on the mat it is time to perform and have a good time doing it. Gable preached putting on a good show. Have we lost that element in favor of every match is a final? Standards should never be lowered but is the pressure just too much? I think these guys are talented enough to bounce back. That's on brands.
I respect you. I do. My point is just that bad things happen and giving up is the wrong response.
Outside of Gilman, I don't know who really impressed me tonight. Rhodes was game...yeah, I think that was it in my mind, Gilman and Rhodes. Fair to middlin' for Clark, Burak and Sorenson. Incomplete to Stoll, he was working out there, but was clearly up against a very stout opponent.
Really disappointing efforts from 141, 174 and 184. 157 showed some flashes, but then went into sleep walking mode at times. If the Hawks were intending to look sharp tonight...that didn't happen. Maybe they are playing possum, I don't know...
NC St is no slouch, and matched up against Iowa very well. I have the feeling VT would've matched up favorably as well (and likewise PSU too). I don't think it is necessarily Brands "working the piss out of people" leading to "diminishing results" either.
The problem is we just don't quite have the horses. Sure there are some studs - Gilman, Clark, Sorenson and Burak, but none is ranked #1.
There are gaping holes at 141 and 165, two weights where we'll likely not get any points in March, assuming they even qualify. People on this board had incredibly high hopes for Grothus reaching AA, but there is really no indication that he is anywhere near that level this season.
Cooper has been one mildly pleasant surprise, and showing potential, but he is a long shot to AA.
Meyer lets guys get to his legs and is often eeking out wins and coming from behind against less that elite wrestlers. Brooks is solid, but somewhat hot and cold.
Hopefully Stoll (another bright spot) isn't injured, and hopefully the team can bounce back. Right now I'd say Iowa is a dark horse at best, to win ncaa.
The problem is we just don't quite have the horses. Sure there are some studs - Gilman, Clark, Sorenson and Burak, but none is ranked #1.
There are gaping holes at 141 and 165, two weights where we'll likely not get any points in March, assuming they even qualify. People on this board had incredibly high hopes for Grothus reaching AA, but there is really no indication that he is anywhere near that level this season.
Cooper has been one mildly pleasant surprise, and showing potential, but he is a long shot to AA.
Meyer lets guys get to his legs and is often eeking out wins and coming from behind against less that elite wrestlers. Brooks is solid, but somewhat hot and cold.
Hopefully Stoll (another bright spot) isn't injured, and hopefully the team can bounce back. Right now I'd say Iowa is a dark horse at best, to win ncaa.
Thanks, 255. The feeling is mutual. And I do agree that there's no sense in giving up. My point is that there's legitimate reason to be disappointed in tonight's performance, and I'm afraid that tonight was pretty telling about what kind of team we have this year. If there were ever a time for the Hawks to come out with an inspired performance in a dual meet, it was tonight -- at home, against the first good team we've seen since Okie State in November. And they laid a big ol' egg, with anemic performances up and down the lineup. It doesn't bode well for what's to come over the next month.
But I'm with ya, hoping for the best. I promise not to badger you anymore on this!
Cheers!
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Great post. I think the "over-training" thing is a myth. Shoot -- if anything, other programs are training more like Iowa now and have negated our conditioning advantage.
Not me -- I can say that much!
Of course not. Your a wrestler. You know there is a counter to every move and being down 0-14 can be trumped by a pin. To your point, I hope Brands takes a hard look at how to change.
I'm just asking here because I don't have a clue but what is Tom like with the kids behind closed doors. My impression of him and Terry are that they are highly intense individuals that you don't want to cross. Reading about Gable, he was a master "psychologist" who knew how to get in a kids head and push the right buttons. Sometimes that might mean tearing a kid a new one or taking a softer approach depending on the kids persona. I'm just wondering does Brands coach everybody the same taking a hard line stance or is able to take a softer approach when necessary? Honest question for somebody that attends practices or is maybe closer to the program the rest of us. In a nut shell what are the main differences wrestling for gable compared to brands.
Interesting point. Honest question: if they are doing the same things, outside of the recruiting answer, what are they doing different. (Recruiting is a big factor but what is number 2 or 3? I have an opinion but would like to hear yours.
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