Thanks. Not trying to bust on you. I respect your positive attitude. Admittedly I use the boards to vent sometimes and that's probably not a good idea. Just want to see us reclaim our rightful place on the throne like everybody else
Flat! Flat! Flat!
- Thread starter ia.sd.wi.hawk
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I think a couple of weak areas of the Iowa program in recent years have been:
1. Strength training. I think our guys have tended to lack strength in past years, even though the cardio has been generally strong. I think Travis Rutt is making a difference already, and I think his expertise will pay off in coming years.
2. Varied technique. Back in the day (i.e., the Gable era), our guys could often win on conditioning and the will to win, without much technique. The wrestling world has caught up in the strength and conditioning department. I think we need to incorporate more varied techniques to give our guys better scoring opportunities.
3. But #1 is recruiting, as you say. Gotta have the horses. I think we have some on the way who could make quite a difference.
1. Strength training. I think our guys have tended to lack strength in past years, even though the cardio has been generally strong. I think Travis Rutt is making a difference already, and I think his expertise will pay off in coming years.
2. Varied technique. Back in the day (i.e., the Gable era), our guys could often win on conditioning and the will to win, without much technique. The wrestling world has caught up in the strength and conditioning department. I think we need to incorporate more varied techniques to give our guys better scoring opportunities.
3. But #1 is recruiting, as you say. Gotta have the horses. I think we have some on the way who could make quite a difference.
I've said this many times before, but I don't believe the "pyscho Brands" exist anymore. We used to hear about "Brands is going to rip so and so a new hole". I just don't think that guy exists. I see a guy who is way more mello now than what we've seen in the past. That guy used to exist as a wrestler and even as an assistant at Iowa, but now I'd say he's more a "wrestlers" coach than a dictator.
The issue with the team is recruiting. We've had some good looking classes that have missed. They are going after the right guys, we just aren't landing. I don't know what needs to change, I'll just add this for discussion... are we spreading out the scholly money to thin?
#1. Agree. Although clearly not the issue tonight.
#2. It's been a long time since we had bonus-point machines and pinners like Randy Lewis. I'm pleased with Stoll's progress. (But seriously, I'd take Gwiz.)
#3. Sigh.
I appreciate the positive attitude 255, and I wish I could get it back, but after witnessing tonight, and March for the past six years or so, I'm feeling more like the last few Zalesky years than any of the miracle years of the 80s and 90s when we looked down in Feb and peaked when we were supposed to.
I think risk aversion is the issue. Guys are getting more risk averse as their careers progress. If a guy is strategizing about what tactics to employ to win today's match...he's avoiding positions where he's not good and minimizing scoring that occurs at unfavorable times. If "winning" is the emphasized outcome ahead of "putting forth your best effort/getting the most of yourself", I think the culture quickly gravitates to strategy. A strategic approach is filled with pressure because your tactics have to work in order to attain the outcome "winning"...its also limiting because individuals are actively avoiding certain positions and scenarios. A "let it fly" approach geared toward getting the most of yourself is less stressful/pressure-filled. It also pushes guys to fearlessly go where they're not comfortable...which I think leads to more profound improvement.
It looks, on the outside, like guys fear losing and wrestle cautious. There's a lot of comments about the message being to let things fly...but if "winning" is the outcome that is emphasized...I think guys will gravitate to tactics quickly. Tom and Terry were the opposite of strategic or fearful...so who knows why things appear that way. That's how it appears to me on the outside observing the matches.
It looks, on the outside, like guys fear losing and wrestle cautious. There's a lot of comments about the message being to let things fly...but if "winning" is the outcome that is emphasized...I think guys will gravitate to tactics quickly. Tom and Terry were the opposite of strategic or fearful...so who knows why things appear that way. That's how it appears to me on the outside observing the matches.
It may be time for Meyer and Brooks to get rid of the mullets. Need to go back to business in the front AND business in the back. Save the parties until after March.
I think the risk averse is due to the talent of the wrestler. We just have a few guys (bless their hearts) that need to wrestle a smarter match in order to win or keep it close. Case in point Brooks. When he's not risk averse you see results like Oky State last year and Nebraska this year.
I guess what I find disconcerting about Brooks is that he was extraordinarily passive tonight and still got manhandled. By a guy he beat at Midlands. So here, I see a guy who wrestled in a risk-averse way and still got throttled. . . AND he looks like he's regressing as the season wears on. . . AND he's hurt again heading into Big Tens, just like last year. . . and this loss to a lower-ranked guy will hurt his seed and likely put him in a similar spot to last year, probably running into a guy like Dean far earlier than he should.
The more you post, the more convinced I am you never wrestled. You can overtrain. Many kids can. My Iowa State buddies for years (coach and wrestler) said the Brand's overtrain some kids and they not only get relatively worse throughout the year, they are convinced they burn out their junior and senior years. I think there are exceptions like Ramos and Metcalf, but this has proven true with a lot of guys. Cael gives the guys off 1 night a week (Wednesday's) to plan things like hanging out with girlfriend, homework etc. no nights off with Iowa. Is PSU in worse condition?
Every year we have holes we can see 2 years in advance and do nothing to fill those holes
Better condition for PSU from what I've seen. Certainly they have more energy.
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A few guys respond to this. The Brands can be mentally exhausting also, and not always in a productive fashion.
I would argue that we tried to give that one away too.
Who is going to go 197 next year? We knew the hole was coming. I maybe am wrong, but I don't see a winning record at that weight next year for Iowa. IMO that should not happen at Iowa. Have someone in the wings mat ready.
Sometimes you lose BUT not without the effort and clearly that was not evident.The unbeaten regular season has kept many from asking the questions being asked here.#1 recruiting has to pick up we no longer compete with PSU in that regard.Zalesky was fired for what is again happening at Iowa.
The pattern is, by Feb/March our guys lack explosiveness and look worn down. I have no inside knowledge, but my guess is where other teams may spend practice time drilling technique and situations,, Iowa may be doing more extended live wrestling. That would explain guys with nagging join/tmuscle injuries and looking spent by the end of the year.
Didn't we have 5 finalists including the first 4 and had it wrapped up going into Saturday night?
My original post had nothing to do with giving up on the Hawks but with the exception of a few on the team watching PSU wrestling is more exciting right now. And as much as I don't like it their techniques are much more varied AND they have great gas tanks. SCARY!!!
Brooks will actually be meeting up with a guy like Dean right about where he should be. He is showing to be an average wrestler. He has a whole bunch of big wins against lesser wrestlers that make people ooh and ahh but he doesn't own many wins against top competition in his career.
Until he starts winning some big matches Brooks is what he is, a low seed to unseeded wrestler. That makes things tough in March.
We had several guys grossly underperform that meet. That team should have rivaled '86 and '97 score-wise.
Definitely not. I actually think one could argue their conditioning is superior. Compare Conoway's intensity in the final minute to Clark's in their last matches. I think Retherford looks to get stronger in the third. I guarantee you Gulibon has more energy than Grothus. Which Iowa wrestler would you say has better conditioning than their PSU counterpart? Depending on who they send out, maybe Meyer.
I think Brooks is better than that, dtripp, with all due respect. He's handled Abounader in the past, and that cat is ranked #2 right now. He owns wins over a number of top 184-pounders, including Zillmer and Renda at Midlands this year. I think he can hang with anyone except maybe Dean. Last night was far from the Brooks we know. Something was way off last night, even before he got hurt. I still think he's a top 8 184-pounder, with potential for top 4. Obviously not if he wrestles like he did last night, however.
No. No. That team overall outperformed their seeds. That was a great tourney. Here it is.
#3 McD got #1
#2 Dennis got #2
#6 Marion got #2
#2 Metcalf got #1
NR Kerr got NP, but won 2 matches
#7 Morningstar got #7
#2 Borschel got #1
#9 Keddy got #8
#9 Beatty got NP, but won 3 matches
#5 Erekson got #7
We got crappy seeds.McD, Erekson, Keddy and Marion were all better than their seeds, and everyone knew it. M* was hurt. Beatty got a bad draw.
The more you post, the more convinced I am that you are talking out of your ass. Our wrestlers get several days off during the season. They also have at least 1 low intensity day a week. You should quit posting like you know anything since it is glaringly obvious you aren't ever in the room.
McD got #1 but shouldn't have been seeded #1. Right? Escobedo beat him at the Big Tens.
Marion got #2, but do you think he should have go the #2 seed? No.
Morninstar therefore did pretty good for being hurt!
Yes, Beatty got a very bad draw, ended up unfortunately wrestling the #5 guy in the wrestle backs. But doesn't lean more toward my point than yours?
There is no way one can say that was a year they really failed to peak.
Again, you have zero clue what you're talking about. Just last week almost half the line up got 2 days of R&R... Some whether they wanted it or not. It's been made blatantly clear that you're clueless when it comes to tge workings of TnT and Iowas program, yet you pass off your garbage as gospel.
You only show up when bad things happen or to try to say "I told you so", even though you never did... I feel empathy for anyone that must deal with you on a daily basis.
My Iowa State buddies for years (coach and wrestler) said the Brand's overtrain some kids and they not only get relatively worse throughout the year, they are convinced they burn out their junior and senior years. [/QUOTE]
Speaking of having fun. Jimmy Gillabon has been blasted all year by the PSU fan base and looks miserable on the mat except for the last outing. Their 165 hasn't had fun this year. Carl doesn't even know who his 165 is. The studs across America are having fun. Everyone else is grinding and it doesn't matter who their coach is or what team they are on.
This notion that Iowa's juniors and seniors get burned out under Tom and Terry just doesn't hold up. Metcalf was so burned out he won his 2nd NCAA title. Borschel was so burned out he smoked the competition, made one of the greatest comebacks of all time in the semis, and dominated Mack Lewnes in the finals, who hadn't given up a takedown all year. Burak is so burned out he's about twice the size he was as a freshman and keeps getting stronger and better every year, on course to becoming a 3x AA and a likely high AA this year. Gilman and Clark are so burned out they're going to threaten to win Big Ten and NCAA championships this year.
You could go on and on about guys who have done great later in their careers under the Brands brothers. Furthermore, Iowa haters (and some Iowa fans, sadly) can rip on them all they want, call them monkeys, or whatever, but these guys aren't stupid. If there were compelling evidence that they were over-training their guys, they'd try a different approach. They're in this thing to win championships. They're not going to keep doing things that are working against that goal.
IMO, this over-training baloney is nothing but a smokescreen thrown up by Iowa haters, some Iowa fans who consider themselves knowledgeable but have no clue, and probably rival coaches who want to throw anything negative about Iowa at the wall and see if it sticks.
And yes, some guys haven't developed as we would have hoped, but to blame this solely on burnout due to over-training is ridiculous. There are any number of factors that go into guys not developing as they would have liked. It happens in every program. I think that, these days, we're recruiting a brand of kid who's hungry and chomping at the bit to tear it up on the mat for the Hawks. I like what I see in these youngsters coming up. I think attitude is a major factor in development and the occurrence or avoidance of burnout. Of course, there are no guarantees, and some may not pan out as they hope they will, but I have a good feeling.
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Burak as a senior is so burnt out he may be wrestling Saturday night!
WWDM, let me add a few more senior "burnouts" to your list - Tony Ramos (champ as a senior), Daniel Dennis (but for a brain fart, . . .), Montell M. (wrestled an incredible tourney, lost title in SV to Russell). All three of these guys had their best year as seniors.
It's also kind of funny that Gable's and Iowa's practices were famous for being difficult.
They sure didn't look like a team that was rested. It seemed the starters with the hardest cuts, Grothus, Meyer, Brooks were spent after a min into the match. Clark and Sorenson cut but seemed ok but then again they are elites and had nobodies that they should have scored more bonus on.
I have no idea what we witnessed, I assumed Brands was training through it to get their attention and prove a few points. Gobblin says that isn't the case. I find that hard to believe since it wasn't just one guy but I haven't been in the room.
So I guess I believe him and now think then half this line-up had to have been taking things for granted.
No idea about Brooks, Im baffled with him. But then again Miklus comes back from an injury and a few awful matches and beats Dudley. So go figure 184 out. What I do know is Brooks has to win Bigs or he wont AA because he screwed up his seeding so bad losing the 2nd time to guys he already beat the first time he saw them. Zilmer, Dudley, Renda. And to think Abounader is ranked #2. SMH at Sammy and his missed opportunities at seeding.
I think Gobblin was also right on his lineup for next year with Alex 184 and Sammy 197. Sammy looked sunken down. So does Paddock & meyer. Just skinny sunken down guys with mullets club.
The only positive Im taking away from the meet is I like the personalized head gear that Gilman and Clark are doing. Recruits will eat that stuff up.
I have no idea what we witnessed, I assumed Brands was training through it to get their attention and prove a few points. Gobblin says that isn't the case. I find that hard to believe since it wasn't just one guy but I haven't been in the room.
So I guess I believe him and now think then half this line-up had to have been taking things for granted.
No idea about Brooks, Im baffled with him. But then again Miklus comes back from an injury and a few awful matches and beats Dudley. So go figure 184 out. What I do know is Brooks has to win Bigs or he wont AA because he screwed up his seeding so bad losing the 2nd time to guys he already beat the first time he saw them. Zilmer, Dudley, Renda. And to think Abounader is ranked #2. SMH at Sammy and his missed opportunities at seeding.
I think Gobblin was also right on his lineup for next year with Alex 184 and Sammy 197. Sammy looked sunken down. So does Paddock & meyer. Just skinny sunken down guys with mullets club.
The only positive Im taking away from the meet is I like the personalized head gear that Gilman and Clark are doing. Recruits will eat that stuff up.
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