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For me, Star Wars died once F'n Jar Jar Binks hit the screen but it's wokeness continues to get worse. The Acolyte is a pathetic woke nightmare.

Hoosierhawkeye said:
I never really watched Star Trek Discovery, I'm a lot more picky I guess about star trek than I am about star wars. So you might have to explain it specifically pertaining to Acolyte.

And I'm fine with criticisms about the character, the writing and the acting. My thing is everyone was hating it because it was "woke star wars". "Woke Star Wars" doesn't sound like criticism about the character or writing, it sounds like being mad because there is some possible references to homosexuality and the main characters are black women.

To be fair I don't think you called it "Woke Star Wars". But a lot of other people did and that forces me to conclude that they are upset about either the possible references to homosexuality or the main character being a black woman.
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My son and I started watching it before I read anything on here about it. We actually hadn't even seen a trailer and knew nothing about it (they were going to show a teaser at the end of the 25th Anniversary of Phantom, but he had to pee. LOL) So, we went in to it w/o any preconceived notions. In the middle of Episode 3 he just said, I'm going to take a break and go outside and practice. I asked him last night if he wanted to keep watching and he said, "Na, let's watch something else." So we started watching Pirates of the Caribbean. To be fair, he didn't make it past Ep2 of Andor either, but he LOVES the Mandalorian and Ahsoka series.

I think Disney is really struggling with female led shows/movies and I can't figure out what the hell they are doing wrong. The Marvels was TERRIBLE, She Hulk sucked (until Dare Devil showed up) and I'm probably biased with regards to Ahsoka because I really like her story arch from the animated series.

I know it's possible to have very well written strong female leads, but Disney SUCKS at it. Look at Gal Godot in WW. What a great film! Look at Jennifer Gardner's Sydney Bristow in Alias or Claire Daines in Homeland--both great female leads and characters. Maybe we need a thread on why Disney sucks at female lead characters. I'd love to discuss that one.
 
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alaskanseminole said:
My son and I started watching it before I read anything on here about it. We actually hadn't even seen a trailer and knew nothing about it (they were going to show a teaser at the end of the 25th Anniversary of Phantom, but he had to pee. LOL) So, we went in to it w/o any preconceived notions. In the middle of Episode 3 he just said, I'm going to take a break and go outside and practice. I asked him last night if he wanted to keep watching and he said, "Na, let's watch something else." So we started watching Pirates of the Caribbean. To be fair, he didn't make it past Ep2 of Andor either, but he LOVES the Mandalorian and Ahsoka series.

I think Disney is really struggling with female led shows/movies and I can't figure out what the hell they are doing wrong. The Marvels was TERRIBLE, She Hulk sucked (until Dare Devil showed up) and I'm probably biased with regards to Ahsoka because I really like her story arch from the animated series.

I know it's possible to have very well written strong female leads, but Disney SUCKS at it. Look at Gal Godot in WW. What a great film! Look at Jennifer Gardner's Sydney Bristow in Alias or Claire Daines in Homeland--both great female leads and characters. Maybe we need a thread on why Disney sucks at female lead characters. I'd love to discuss that one.
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I don't entirely disagree although I havn't had any issues with this one thus far.

I didn't watch She-Hulk but what I gathered that they did a similar thing but worse that they did with Captain Marvel, and the newest Star Wars movies.

The creators arn't just out to create a good female led series, they for some reason feel the need to shoehorn in girl power catch phrases and feminist tropes.

I havn't seen any of that yet in this series nor did I see that in Asoka.

I agree with you that there isn't a major issue on the whole with female led series. The Hunger Games series was also good and extremely popular which was a female led series. But those movies didn't have people trying to break the 4th wall with girl power catch phrases and feminist tropes.

This is sort of the reason that I dislike Kathleen Kennedy because as far as I can tell it feels like she is the driver of dumping all of this into the series instead of trying to just make a good series.

Also find it annoying that much of the time these series are coming out they act like they are doing something ground breaking as though no female led movies or series ever existed before they tried it. Charlie's angels didn't exist, the golden girls didn't exist, I love Lucy didn't exist, The Mary Tyler Moore show didn't exist. Nope the first people to try a female led series was them. . . .
 
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Hoosierhawkeye said:
I don't entirely disagree although I havn't had any issues with this one thus far.

I didn't watch She-Hulk but what I gathered that they did a similar thing but worse that they did with Captain Marvel, and the newest Star Wars movies.

The creators arn't just out to create a good female led series, they for some reason feel the need to shoehorn in girl power catch phrases and feminist tropes.

I havn't seen any of that yet in this series nor did I see that in Asoka.

I agree with you that there isn't a major issue on the whole with female led series. The Hunger Games series was also good and extremely popular which was a female led series. But those movies didn't have people trying to break the 4th wall with girl power catch phrases and feminist tropes.

This is sort of the reason that I dislike Kathleen Kennedy because as far as I can tell it feels like she is the driver of dumping all of this into the series instead of trying to just make a good series.

Also find it annoying that much of the time these series are coming out they act like they are doing something ground breaking as though no female led movies or series ever existed before they tried it. Charlie's angels didn't exist, the golden girls didn't exist, I love Lucy didn't exist, The Mary Tyler Moore show didn't exist. Nope the first people to try a female led series was them. . . .
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This image sums up your post pretty accurately. Forced scene that was so cringey and an actual slap in the face to all those great female leads you mentioned (and a shout out to Lynda Carter!)

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all-female-avengers-endgame-scene-e1685215022227-800x400.jpeg


Following the rules:
entertainment-2016-03-lynda-carter-wonder-woman-main-1.png
 
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Hoosierhawkeye said:
Also find it annoying that much of the time these series are coming out they act like they are doing something ground breaking as though no female led movies or series ever existed before they tried it. Charlie's angels didn't exist, the golden girls didn't exist, I love Lucy didn't exist, The Mary Tyler Moore show didn't exist. Nope the first people to try a female led series was them. . . .
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Two words: Clarice Starling. Ellen Ripley. Sarah Conner.
 
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Whiskeydeltadeltatango said:
I am not a star wars person and I don't claim to be a star wars person, I do however listen to Bob and Tom and one of thr guys on there is and voiced his opinion.


Apparently this series, again, is a prequel type and contains a bunch of discovery. A main character is the child of 2 females. Making the decision to have 2 female parents now brings in the whole who are his actual parents component basically making the lesbian parents irrelevant in his lineage, other than to include some lesbians. They made a tangent foe the purpose of injecting some homosexuals.

That's "woke".
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Bob and Tom is effing terrible. Their fake uproarious laughter makes the most egregious TV laugh track cringe.
 
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alaskanseminole said:
My son and I started watching it before I read anything on here about it. We actually hadn't even seen a trailer and knew nothing about it (they were going to show a teaser at the end of the 25th Anniversary of Phantom, but he had to pee. LOL) So, we went in to it w/o any preconceived notions. In the middle of Episode 3 he just said, I'm going to take a break and go outside and practice. I asked him last night if he wanted to keep watching and he said, "Na, let's watch something else." So we started watching Pirates of the Caribbean. To be fair, he didn't make it past Ep2 of Andor either, but he LOVES the Mandalorian and Ahsoka series.

I think Disney is really struggling with female led shows/movies and I can't figure out what the hell they are doing wrong. The Marvels was TERRIBLE, She Hulk sucked (until Dare Devil showed up) and I'm probably biased with regards to Ahsoka because I really like her story arch from the animated series.

I know it's possible to have very well written strong female leads, but Disney SUCKS at it. Look at Gal Godot in WW. What a great film! Look at Jennifer Gardner's Sydney Bristow in Alias or Claire Daines in Homeland--both great female leads and characters. Maybe we need a thread on why Disney sucks at female lead characters. I'd love to discuss that one.
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Not sure their angle. Trying to turn more females on to the genre? Maybe they don't like that sort of thing as much as the males. Maybe the males is part of the reason they watch.

Is it a woke thing? Trying to (boringly) show they're diverse and proving you can female leads in this sort of genre?

I think the latter is relegated to relative meaningless at this point.

I can understand trying to grow your audience... Which is experimental and might not work.

I don't see much effort being placed into bringing more of a male presence into genres that women are chief consumers of.

At some point they'll be reduced to giving people that they want
 
Hoosierhawkeye said:
I don't entirely disagree although I havn't had any issues with this one thus far.

I didn't watch She-Hulk but what I gathered that they did a similar thing but worse that they did with Captain Marvel, and the newest Star Wars movies.

The creators arn't just out to create a good female led series, they for some reason feel the need to shoehorn in girl power catch phrases and feminist tropes.

I havn't seen any of that yet in this series nor did I see that in Asoka.

I agree with you that there isn't a major issue on the whole with female led series. The Hunger Games series was also good and extremely popular which was a female led series. But those movies didn't have people trying to break the 4th wall with girl power catch phrases and feminist tropes.

This is sort of the reason that I dislike Kathleen Kennedy because as far as I can tell it feels like she is the driver of dumping all of this into the series instead of trying to just make a good series.

Also find it annoying that much of the time these series are coming out they act like they are doing something ground breaking as though no female led movies or series ever existed before they tried it. Charlie's angels didn't exist, the golden girls didn't exist, I love Lucy didn't exist, The Mary Tyler Moore show didn't exist. Nope the first people to try a female led series was them. . . .
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I agree with this take.

The problem is PANDERING, not being "woke" IMO.

Just tell a good story, and the rest will take care of itself.
 
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Moral said:
Bob and Tom is effing terrible. Their fake uproarious laughter makes the most egregious TV laugh track cringe.
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I had a photographer coworker who LOVED Bob and Tom and I ended up being forced to listen to hours of that drivel in the darkroom (for you kids, that's where "photos" had to be "developed" before digital cameras existed)
 
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torbee said:
I had a photographer coworker who LOVED Bob and Tom and I ended up being forced to listen to hours of that drivel in the darkroom (for you kids, that's where "photos" had to be "developed" before digital cameras existed)
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You do know the youngest person here is like 50 right?
 
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Bob & Tom Show was funny, used to listen to it driving to work.

They are in the National Radio HOF.

Been on for a good 40 years.

Yeah, they suck.
 
Colonoscopy said:
Star Wars fans love hating on Star Wars in general. It's practically a profession for some of them.
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Those comic book nerds from the 80s/90s are all using the interwebz to confirm their opinions. I always think of comic book guy when I’m reading some of this Star Wars hate stuff
 
BrunoMars420 said:
Those comic book nerds from the 80s/90s are all using the interwebz to confirm their opinions. I always think of comic book guy when I’m reading some of this Star Wars hate stuff
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To be fair there wouldn’t be any of this without them so why spit in face? Keep it to the books doesn’t seem that difficult. I have no dog in this fight though or care
 
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I've enjoyed the show so far. I do think it's a little over the top to have every female character be gay but whatever. It's not that big a part of the story. I do also find it kinda dumb that they make the female padawan stronger and smarter than the newly promoted jedi master guy. Again though, it's a tiny piece.
 
For the most part, what Disney has put out Star Wars related has been garbage. Andor related movie and series are the exclusions. Both helmed by Tony Gilroy.

But Lucas definitely was putting out garbage arguably with Return of the Jedi. As bad as three sequels have been, Attack of the Clones might be the worst movie of them all.

Interesting that the top tier products were written and directed by “outsiders”

Empire: Directed by Irvin Kershner and written by: Lawrence Kasdan
Andor: Gilroy

Star Wars ultimately is just below and the source to everything.
 
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BDE420 said:
To be fair there wouldn’t be any of this without them so why spit in face? Keep it to the books doesn’t seem that difficult. I have no dog in this fight though or care
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The thing about the books is there were A LOT of them. A lot of them kind of contradicted each other in terms of characters, times, places, etc. It would have been extremely difficult for Disney/Lucasfilm to keep them cannon.

That being said, people were very invested in them. People loved them. And when they said they weren't cannon and deviated away from them, it really rubbed people wrong. And now when we get new show and movie content there is an entire library for people to compare them to.
 
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Hoosierhawkeye said:
I don't entirely disagree although I havn't had any issues with this one thus far.

I didn't watch She-Hulk but what I gathered that they did a similar thing but worse that they did with Captain Marvel, and the newest Star Wars movies.

The creators arn't just out to create a good female led series, they for some reason feel the need to shoehorn in girl power catch phrases and feminist tropes.

I havn't seen any of that yet in this series nor did I see that in Asoka.

I agree with you that there isn't a major issue on the whole with female led series. The Hunger Games series was also good and extremely popular which was a female led series. But those movies didn't have people trying to break the 4th wall with girl power catch phrases and feminist tropes.

This is sort of the reason that I dislike Kathleen Kennedy because as far as I can tell it feels like she is the driver of dumping all of this into the series instead of trying to just make a good series.

Also find it annoying that much of the time these series are coming out they act like they are doing something ground breaking as though no female led movies or series ever existed before they tried it. Charlie's angels didn't exist, the golden girls didn't exist, I love Lucy didn't exist, The Mary Tyler Moore show didn't exist. Nope the first people to try a female led series was them. . . .
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I agree with a lot of both of these takes. I got zero issue with female leads and multiple races and gay characters. Nothing wrong with it, especially in a sci fi with a bazillion alien races.

I think the reason some of these shows have sucked is simply writing and/or directors. The Marvels was a prime example of this. Just horrifically written and directed. For the most recent series I think it is writing too sprinkled with some poor acting. The lead girls, both young version and old versions are very monotone and wooden. The plot is meh and has holes.
 
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noleclone2 said:
I agree with a lot of both of these takes. I got zero issue with female leads and multiple races and gay characters. Nothing wrong with it, especially in a sci fi with a bazillion alien races.

I think the reason some of these shows have sucked is simply writing and/or directors. The Marvels was a prime example of this. Just horrifically written and directed. For the most recent series I think it is writing too sprinkled with some poor acting. The lead girls, both young version and old versions are very monotone and wooden. The plot is meh and has holes.
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But the cop out will be to attribute all the hate to black lead and gay characters despite the fact, as Torbs said, write a good show and no one will care. Look at Will and Grace, Modern Family, Glee, and Schitt's Creek off the top of my head. All LGBTQ shows that were great, highly rated and watched.
 
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BDE420 said:
To be fair there wouldn’t be any of this without them so why spit in face? Keep it to the books doesn’t seem that difficult. I have no dog in this fight though or care
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There would be but I’m talking about the blowhard stuff of female leads and shit like that. It’s the types that want the universe to expand but it’s either their way or the highway then they out put these takes that people dick ride.

I understand the hate for some of the decanonizing that’s going on because I’m that way as well. I hate some of the things Disney has done and continue to do to the expanded universe.
 
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