For the 110% supporters of Fran.....

[Ihawkhoops]

I like Fran, want him to succeed, but this year did a lot to erode my confidence in him. What makes you so certain he can achieve more than what he has to date or are his achievements enough for you? No concerns that in 6 years he has not recruited a legit 1. I know about Tyler Cook, but that is one guy. I am not looking to start any stupid back and forth or name calling, I am seriously interested in your thoughts. No toughness, late game / season chokes, getting the doors blown off two years in a row in the second round and 0 depth this year to support the seniors / fill key gaps like a 3rd scorer.

Is it that you support Iowa athletics regardless and see that as being a true fan or do you really think Fran can win a second round game in the next 3 years, which is still a very low bar in my opinion. I would prefer that you don't start with"In the dark ages under Licklier we were so bad....'. as enough time has passed that nobody we are recruiting even knows who Todd Lickliter is. New facilities, getting major upgrades to CHA, so can't really claim lack of support. Keep in mind that Fran is the one who came here talking about big ten championships and runs in March. Unlike some, I think Fran is a good X and O coach, but his recruiting remains a huge disappointment.

 

[Hawkeyestate81]

Completely disagree 10000% on his recruiting being a huge disappointment. His loyalty to stick with ineffective players is much more in question than his ability to attract talent. I think you will be surprised next year. Yes he went all in on Ullis and we got burned big time. The MG/AC train the past 4 years is in large part the reason we were medicore to above average at best.

 

[hawkifann]

I like Fran, want him to succeed, but this year did a lot to erode my confidence in him. What makes you so certain he can achieve more than what he has to date or are his achievements enough for you? No concerns that in 6 years he has not recruited a legit 1. I know about Tyler Cook, but that is one guy. I am not looking to start any stupid back and forth or name calling, I am seriously interested in your thoughts. No toughness, late game / season chokes, getting the doors blown off two years in a row in the second round and 0 depth this year to support the seniors / fill key gaps like a 3rd scorer.

Is it that you support Iowa athletics regardless and see that as being a true fan or do you really think Fran can win a second round game in the next 3 years, which is still a very low bar in my opinion. I would prefer that you don't start with"In the dark ages under Licklier we were so bad....'. as enough time has passed that nobody we are recruiting even knows who Todd Lickliter is. New facilities, getting major upgrades to CHA, so can't really claim lack of support. Keep in mind that Fran is the one who came here talking about big ten championships and runs in March. Unlike some, I think Fran is a good X and O coach, but his recruiting remains a huge disappointment.

I guess I'm not sure what you're angling for here. The subject of this thread plus the way you wrote the post above begin to imply that you're either "110% for Fran" or that you don't support him. There are fair criticisms for sure -- the team has had really poor finishes in two of the last three years along with some of the other things you discuss. Are you looking for people to say they're 85% for Fran? 42% for Fran? I can't imagine anyone seriously believes he should be fired after this season.

You talk about Sweet 16 as a "very low bar" and not to discuss the Lickliter dark ages. I can go back to the start of the Lute Olsen era in 1974. In the 42 years since then, Iowa has 1 B1G championship. In the NCAA tournament, Lute had a Final Four 1980 and lost in a regional semi-final in 1983, but outside of those magical seasons, he was 1-3 in the NCAA tournament (NOTE: Lute was at Iowa before the 64-team "modern era" of the tournament). George Raveling was 0-2 in the NCAA tournament at Iowa. Dr. Tom started quickly with an Elite Eight team his first year and a Sweet 16 in 1988. He didn't have a Sweet 16 again until 1999 and that was Iowa's last. So, you talk about Sweet 16 as a "low bar", but Iowa has only been there 4 times in 42 years, and one of those was a Lute team that had a #3 seed and first-round bye to make the final 16.

I'm not saying Iowa can't take the Wisconsin path and raise it's profile. With the right coach and a couple recruiting wins it is absolutely possible.....I just hate reading on here that Iowa has some inherent right to simply show up in the Sweet 16 every year. That's not Iowa's history. So, that gives us two paths: Find a good coach (McCaffery is good, but certainly hasn't proven "great" yet) and support him and hope it works out, or you can set up a revolving door every 5-6 years, hoping you catch lightning in a bottle at some point. I think Iowa has clearly shown that it's not a school that fires coaches all that often. As with anything, there are pros and cons to this -- a good coach is going to get some leash to survive some bad seasons (unless you're epically bad like Lick) and that can be attractive to coaches. The flip side is that Iowa isn't generally going to fire a coach that's doing "pretty well".

I can see the arguments of people who might be getting wary with McCaffery, but I can't buy any argument that involves firing him (or really even wishing he'll take another job) at this point. He's been here 6 years and picked up a team off a sluggish Alford finish and probably the worst coaching tenure in program history and after a rough first year, has had Iowa in the post-season 5 straight years, the last three of which were NCAA appearances. I do think this next 2-3 years will tell you what he's going to do at Iowa. I think after struggling with recruiting early, I think he has the kind of team he wants to have and we'll see what the length and athleticism upgrades will be able to do over the next couple of seasons. If they don't take any step forward, then I think we'll have a pretty clear picture of what Iowa basketball under McCaffery can be. If they do step forward, then I think it's going to be a great ride.

 

[Carolina Hawk]

Completely disagree 10000% on his recruiting being a huge disappointment. His loyalty to stick with ineffective players is much more in question than his ability to attract talent. I think you will be surprised next year. Yes he went all in on Ullis and we got burned big time. The MG/AC train the past 4 years is in large part the reason we were medicore to above average at best.

I like pretty much this entire answer.

 

[bravehawks1]

Would I be disappointed if Fran left? Probably yes, primarily because I am not anxious to start over again as we would likely lose a couple players if he departed.
Would I be disappointed if Fran stays (and I really think him leaving is very remote)? Probably not, but I think the coaching staff needs to do a intensive self-reflection like Ferentz did. The really need to improve the in game coaching strategy especially related to timeouts, substitutions and play calling and be willing to make adjustments during the game. Fran's teams very often start the game well, but by the 2nd or 3rd timeout, begin to get outcoached due to the other teams making adjustments and Iowa does not.

Overall, I would rate Fran at about the 75th to 80th percentile in terms of his recruiting, coaching and overall impact on the game. I guess the question that Barta needs to address on our behalf, can Fran move up by 5-10%? If so, I think the program would be in great shape

 

[Ihawkhoops]

To be clear, my intent is to understand those who seem to have no concerns with anything related to Iowa basketball and some of this group calls anyone who cites a criticism as stupid, impatient, not connected to the history of Iowa basketball always being mediocre.

Also to be clear, I am not a 'fire Fran' or 'Fran is on the hot seat' person. In my opinion, we brought an experienced coach in who hired an experienced staff and collectively, they all talked about the importance of recruiting. Fran and his staff had 4 years with the seniors and 4 years to assemble talent around them for a 'run' and it didn't happen. Talent is my concern on the recruiting side and lack of toughness / poor late game execution is my concern on the coaching side. Both have been trademarks of Fran since he arrived and one results in the other.

I also struggle to understand the thinking around the PG situation. The fact that Fran took a run at Ulis and didn't get him doesn't absolve him of his responsibility to get better guards in here. I saw 63 teams with guards who would have helped this team this year. Fran came in here talking about the great guard play in the big ten (his words) and has put Horizon League talent on the floor since he arrived outside of inherited players Marble and Gatens.

 

[Hawk_4shur]

I like Fran, want him to succeed, but this year did a lot to erode my confidence in him. What makes you so certain he can achieve more than what he has to date or are his achievements enough for you? No concerns that in 6 years he has not recruited a legit 1. I know about Tyler Cook, but that is one guy. I am not looking to start any stupid back and forth or name calling, I am seriously interested in your thoughts. No toughness, late game / season chokes, getting the doors blown off two years in a row in the second round and 0 depth this year to support the seniors / fill key gaps like a 3rd scorer.

Is it that you support Iowa athletics regardless and see that as being a true fan or do you really think Fran can win a second round game in the next 3 years, which is still a very low bar in my opinion. I would prefer that you don't start with"In the dark ages under Licklier we were so bad....'. as enough time has passed that nobody we are recruiting even knows who Todd Lickliter is. New facilities, getting major upgrades to CHA, so can't really claim lack of support. Keep in mind that Fran is the one who came here talking about big ten championships and runs in March. Unlike some, I think Fran is a good X and O coach, but his recruiting remains a huge disappointment.

I've read a lot of the Fran threads in the last few days, but I don't recall anyone expressing 110% devotion to Fran. Nor have I seen too many that are absolutely sure he will lead us to a NC.

But, I'll play.

In 1970, Ralph Miller led an undefeated B1G team, which unfortunately got a crappy draw in the Dance and lost. Lute Olsen took a 23-10 team to the FF. That team was very good, but also got really hot at the right time. Tom Davis took George Raveling's recruits to the Elite 8, and inches from the FF.

In the last 50 years, that is the list of the GREAT achievement in Iowa Basketball. Yes, Davis got a team or two to the Sweet 16. Alford won a couple of B1G TT's. So, maybe the list of great years balloons to 6-7 out of 50.

But in those 50 years there have been many, many HUGE disappointments. A few of Lute's teams fell apart at the end of the season. Davis's team proved that they could beat anyone ... and lose to anyone.

So, what has Fran done? He took a train wreck and restored Iowa Basketball to it's rightful place in history - a pretty good team that wins some big games and loses some that they shouldn't. His teams have gotten better every year. His recruits are getting better every year. Fan attendance is getting better. The facilities are getting better.

Fran is, I believe, the 7th coach at Iowa since Ralph Miller left. None of them were able to bring consistent glory to Iowa - some brought no glory and two were embarrassing.

No, I don't think that Fran is the next Coach K. No, I don't think Iowa is going to become a dominant program under Fran. But I like that the program is getting better. I like that I care about Iowa basketball again. I really think Fran can continue to build this program.

And, let's face it - there are only two choices. Support Fran or don't support Fran. He is not getting fired. I'd rather be optimistic.

 

[hawkfan1963]

First off the facts. Lickliter took Iowa to a new low in basketball. Fran had to climb Iowa out of a pretty bad hole. Iowa just had their 4th 20 consecutive win season and 3rd straight NCAA tournament. Fran did this with players who weren't superstars. A couple highly rated players didn't get better every year. They plateaued and maybe even regressed(no one knows the future and that this would happen). No one seemed to be a leader and there was no killer instinct and mentality on this 15/16 team. Now some things do need to change. There needs to be agressive leadership and team cohesiveness. Fran needs to do something about that. I do believe Fran's temper needs to be worked on, only he can do that. Fran needs players with more bulk, maybe he's been trying and hasn't gotten one to come(Kreiner and Cook and Pemsl maybe the beginning for that). Stamina needs to be addressed, toward the end of the season they seem to run out of gas. Is that diet, lack of muscle, too strenuous of practices late in the year, players who aren't mentally tough , I don't know, it all needs evaluated. Everybody wants Iowa to win a championship yesterday but that isn't how it works. The strides Fran has made are immense, sad to say patience and hard work on the players part is probably what everyone needs now.

 

[JerryDennard]

Fran gets a pass on recruiting for a couple reasons: first, we didn't make the NCAA tournament for real until last year. Prior to that it was the NIT. He gets a pass on anyone he recruited before last year bc he didn't have a proven, successful program to sell (and he still landed some nice pieces). Basically, I will judge Fran on what he does with last year's class, and the next few, over the next few years. Second, Iowa didn't have that many open rides available prior to last year's class. Two years ago we had 2 spots: Uhl, Ellingson. Three years ago we had 1 spot: Jok. With so few spots, you can't expect Fran to turn around the program unless he lands at 5*

 

[EpenesaEpenesa]

He has done a solid job, but if he wants to get up and down the floor, he better recruit guards, shooters, etc..that can do it. You cannot play that way with 2 scorers on the floor out of 5. Pretty easy to defend when all you have to do defensively is find the 2 scorers and make the other 3 beat you. When you think about it, its borderline miraculous Iowa had the season they did with 2 scorers/shooters in the starting lineup.
Another issue is defensively. My god Im not sure where to even begin on that end of the floor. Either its not being emphasized enough or it isnt being taught correctly, but there is a disconnect there.

 

[nu2u]

I guess I'm not sure what you're angling for here. The subject of this thread plus the way you wrote the post above begin to imply that you're either "110% for Fran" or that you don't support him. There are fair criticisms for sure -- the team has had really poor finishes in two of the last three years along with some of the other things you discuss. Are you looking for people to say they're 85% for Fran? 42% for Fran? I can't imagine anyone seriously believes he should be fired after this season.

You talk about Sweet 16 as a "very low bar" and not to discuss the Lickliter dark ages. I can go back to the start of the Lute Olsen era in 1974. In the 42 years since then, Iowa has 1 B1G championship. In the NCAA tournament, Lute had a Final Four 1980 and lost in a regional semi-final in 1983, but outside of those magical seasons, he was 1-3 in the NCAA tournament (NOTE: Lute was at Iowa before the 64-team "modern era" of the tournament). George Raveling was 0-2 in the NCAA tournament at Iowa. Dr. Tom started quickly with an Elite Eight team his first year and a Sweet 16 in 1988. He didn't have a Sweet 16 again until 1999 and that was Iowa's last. So, you talk about Sweet 16 as a "low bar", but Iowa has only been there 4 times in 42 years, and one of those was a Lute team that had a #3 seed and first-round bye to make the final 16.

I'm not saying Iowa can't take the Wisconsin path and raise it's profile. With the right coach and a couple recruiting wins it is absolutely possible.....I just hate reading on here that Iowa has some inherent right to simply show up in the Sweet 16 every year. That's not Iowa's history. So, that gives us two paths: Find a good coach (McCaffery is good, but certainly hasn't proven "great" yet) and support him and hope it works out, or you can set up a revolving door every 5-6 years, hoping you catch lightning in a bottle at some point. I think Iowa has clearly shown that it's not a school that fires coaches all that often. As with anything, there are pros and cons to this -- a good coach is going to get some leash to survive some bad seasons (unless you're epically bad like Lick) and that can be attractive to coaches. The flip side is that Iowa isn't generally going to fire a coach that's doing "pretty well".

I can see the arguments of people who might be getting wary with McCaffery, but I can't buy any argument that involves firing him (or really even wishing he'll take another job) at this point. He's been here 6 years and picked up a team off a sluggish Alford finish and probably the worst coaching tenure in program history and after a rough first year, has had Iowa in the post-season 5 straight years, the last three of which were NCAA appearances. I do think this next 2-3 years will tell you what he's going to do at Iowa. I think after struggling with recruiting early, I think he has the kind of team he wants to have and we'll see what the length and athleticism upgrades will be able to do over the next couple of seasons. If they don't take any step forward, then I think we'll have a pretty clear picture of what Iowa basketball under McCaffery can be. If they do step forward, then I think it's going to be a great ride.

Bravo!

I've read a lot of the Fran threads in the last few days, but I don't recall anyone expressing 110% devotion to Fran. Nor have I seen too many that are absolutely sure he will lead us to a NC.

But, I'll play.

In 1970, Ralph Miller led an undefeated B1G team, which unfortunately got a crappy draw in the Dance and lost. Lute Olsen took a 23-10 team to the FF. That team was very good, but also got really hot at the right time. Tom Davis took George Raveling's recruits to the Elite 8, and inches from the FF.

In the last 50 years, that is the list of the GREAT achievement in Iowa Basketball. Yes, Davis got a team or two to the Sweet 16. Alford won a couple of B1G TT's. So, maybe the list of great years balloons to 6-7 out of 50.

But in those 50 years there have been many, many HUGE disappointments. A few of Lute's teams fell apart at the end of the season. Davis's team proved that they could beat anyone ... and lose to anyone.

So, what has Fran done? He took a train wreck and restored Iowa Basketball to it's rightful place in history - a pretty good team that wins some big games and loses some that they shouldn't. His teams have gotten better every year. His recruits are getting better every year. Fan attendance is getting better. The facilities are getting better.

Fran is, I believe, the 7th coach at Iowa since Ralph Miller left. None of them were able to bring consistent glory to Iowa - some brought no glory and two were embarrassing.

No, I don't think that Fran is the next Coach K. No, I don't think Iowa is going to become a dominant program under Fran. But I like that the program is getting better. I like that I care about Iowa basketball again. I really think Fran can continue to build this program.

And, let's face it - there are only two choices. Support Fran or don't support Fran. He is not getting fired. I'd rather be optimistic.

Ditto!

 

[Curt Furence]

I am far from a Fran can do no wrong guy but I think you are discounting how bad it was previously. Virtually no one wanted to come to Iowa, or stay here once they were here.

You can talk about recruiting being disappointing but he got two top 100 players in Gesell and Woody, he got Cook. I know you are going to discount Connor, but he is a top 100 player as is Weiskamp at #20 on ESPN.

Not every recruit is going to work out and not every big name recruit is going to come to Iowa just because Fran offered.

 

[DanL53]

Too late for a discussion on this board if you ask me. One example:

A poster points out the few times Iowa has reached the Sweet Sixteen. Just facts.

And the response is the 110%ers (A new Black and Gold Glasses or Kool-aid drinker nickname?) imply that concerned fans with criticism don't know the mediocre history of Iowa Basketball.

Shoot. Iowa has a great history, unfortunately the best part of it comes before the last 35 years. A poster points out that the measuring stick of a Sweet Sixteen being a minor accomplishment isn't an accurate viewpoint....and even that gets twisted and spun!?!?

Up is down, right is wrong, one starts with a determination to prove something and facts get in the way.

Yeah, it's too late for a discussion on this board. On the free board, if you come down in the middle that doesn't make one impartial.

And it isn't about "fair" criticism. People have a right to criticize. But they also have the right to be right now and then and most of the criticisms are just plain wrong. Now someone can get upset that I dared say that complaints can be stupid.

 

[FranklinHawk]

To be clear, my intent is to understand those who seem to have no concerns with anything related to Iowa basketball and some of this group calls anyone who cites a criticism as stupid, impatient, not connected to the history of Iowa basketball always being mediocre.

Also to be clear, I am not a 'fire Fran' or 'Fran is on the hot seat' person. In my opinion, we brought an experienced coach in who hired an experienced staff and collectively, they all talked about the importance of recruiting. Fran and his staff had 4 years with the seniors and 4 years to assemble talent around them for a 'run' and it didn't happen. Talent is my concern on the recruiting side and lack of toughness / poor late game execution is my concern on the coaching side. Both have been trademarks of Fran since he arrived and one results in the other.

I also struggle to understand the thinking around the PG situation. The fact that Fran took a run at Ulis and didn't get him doesn't absolve him of his responsibility to get better guards in here. I saw 63 teams with guards who would have helped this team this year. Fran came in here talking about the great guard play in the big ten (his words) and has put Horizon League talent on the floor since he arrived outside of inherited players Marble and Gatens.

I don't think you'll find many with absolutely no concerns about this team or the coaches, it's more about how those "criticisms" are stated. It's one thing to say that recruiting will need to improve to take Iowa to the next level, it's received very differently by some when it's stated as a total recruiting failure. Fran has shown to be a tireless recruiter and has the ability to identify talent early, if anything my perspective is that he may "lock in" on 1 or 2 specific very high level guys too often and when those fall through (especially late in the process) he's behind the 8-Ball where other high quality options are concerned. He's tried to bring other PG's in, aside from Ulis he brought in Dickerson and that didn't work out and apparently found out too late that Charlie Moore (or those around him) was a flake that he didn't want to deal with. Ogelsby and Ellingson were supposed to be lights out shooters but we found out (with JO and so far with Ellingson anyway) when the bright lights were on they didn't perform as expected.

I do agree about needing to bring in better shooting guards. Mike and Sapp have been a critical part of bringing the Hawks back to respectability, but to make deep tourney runs I agree we need better shooters and a PG that can penetrate, find the open guy, and dish. Bohannon is supposed to be a great shooter with range, hopefully that works out this time. I see flashes of talent with Williams, I guess we'll find out if he can be that guy at the point.

Absolutely have concerns and want to see Iowa continue to rise, just far from the "failure" statements by some around here and downright nasty comments about the guys that have given us 4 years to even get back to this point.

 

[And1Hawk]

We have essentially played for 4 years with the same core of players. We got a lot of mileage out of a group with limitations. It's going to be interesting to see what a new group can do.

I want advancement and deep tourney runs but I also keep perspective on how freaking hard that is to attain because you have to have excellent players across the board and even then a little luck. When you add up the top notch & really good and established programs from the power 5/6/7 leagues that does not leave a lot of open seats at the sweet 16 party.

So why take a tremendous risk of starting this process all over.... instead of gaining traction, slowly getting better, catching some breaks and taking advantage of stability / continuity? I have seen too many panic moves by programs in our similar situation that bombed out only to plunge them into greater or prolonged futility.

It's amazing to me how easily and how little confidence some can have whenever we hit adversity or challenges.

 

[TritonHawkeye]

Dev Marble - NBA Draft Pick
Aaron White - NBA Draft Pick
Jarrod Uthoff - Projected in most recent mock drafts to be drafted
Peter Jok - 50/50 next year to be drafted.

You are right, our recruiting is horrible!

 

[Hawkeyestate81]

All comes down to Guards/Backcourt inability to create their own shot and perimeter defense. Athleticism is upgraded big time next season.

 

[Herkuleez]

I've read a lot of the Fran threads in the last few days, but I don't recall anyone expressing 110% devotion to Fran. Nor have I seen too many that are absolutely sure he will lead us to a NC.
...

No, I don't think that Fran is the next Coach K. No, I don't think Iowa is going to become a dominant program under Fran. But I like that the program is getting better. I like that I care about Iowa basketball again. I really think Fran can continue to build this program.

And, let's face it - there are only two choices. Support Fran or don't support Fran. He is not getting fired. I'd rather be optimistic.

A) NO ONE is expecting a NC.

B) NO ONE wants him to be the next Coach K ...but I'd take the next Bo Ryan or Fred Hoiberg.

C) There are more than "only" two choices, one being supporting Fran and the team and hoping what we've seen to date in both recruiting and end-of-season collapses were flukes and starting with this most recent class and going forward we finally have the pieces required to get us over the hump....while also realizing Fran is not above criticism and should be held to a higher standard than what happened in our final game of 2016.

 

[Ihawkhoops]

Dev Marble - NBA Draft Pick
Aaron White - NBA Draft Pick
Jarrod Uthoff - Projected in most recent mock drafts to be drafted
Peter Jok - 50/50 next year to be drafted.

You are right, our recruiting is horrible!

This made me laugh. Thanks.

 

[mtdew_fever]

What exactly are your expectations?

I like Fran, want him to succeed, but this year did a lot to erode my confidence in him. What makes you so certain he can achieve more than what he has to date or are his achievements enough for you? No concerns that in 6 years he has not recruited a legit 1. I know about Tyler Cook, but that is one guy. I am not looking to start any stupid back and forth or name calling, I am seriously interested in your thoughts. No toughness, late game / season chokes, getting the doors blown off two years in a row in the second round and 0 depth this year to support the seniors / fill key gaps like a 3rd scorer.

Is it that you support Iowa athletics regardless and see that as being a true fan or do you really think Fran can win a second round game in the next 3 years, which is still a very low bar in my opinion. I would prefer that you don't start with"In the dark ages under Licklier we were so bad....'. as enough time has passed that nobody we are recruiting even knows who Todd Lickliter is. New facilities, getting major upgrades to CHA, so can't really claim lack of support. Keep in mind that Fran is the one who came here talking about big ten championships and runs in March. Unlike some, I think Fran is a good X and O coach, but his recruiting remains a huge disappointment.

 

[Ihawkhoops]

Appreciate the feedback / thoughts. I have no illusions about Iowa being Duke, Kentucky, or UNC. Nor do I have illusions that we are going to get McDonald's 5 Stars. What I am trying to point out is that it does not matter who else Fran recruits if he cannot get a solid 1 & 2 in here. So heading into year we have the back court duo of Williams and Bohannon? Not very good succession planning IMO.

 

[Hawkeyestate81]

Appreciate the feedback / thoughts. I have no illusions about Iowa being Duke, Kentucky, or UNC. Nor do I have illusions that we are going to get McDonald's 5 Stars. What I am trying to point out is that it does not matter who else Fran recruits if he cannot get a solid 1 & 2 in here. So heading into year we have the back court duo of Williams and Bohannon? Not very good succession planning IMO.

How do you know? Moss could emerge in one of those spots as well.

 

[hawkfan1963]

Dev Marble - NBA Draft Pick
Aaron White - NBA Draft Pick
Jarrod Uthoff - Projected in most recent mock drafts to be drafted
Peter Jok - 50/50 next year to be drafted.

You are right, our recruiting is horrible!

Uthoff better get a new attitude for the pro's, if he even wants to do that.

 

[Ihawkhoops]

This made me laugh. Thanks.

What are my expectations? A post player with post moves. A PF who doesn't need to gain 25 pounds. A 2 guard with some offensive skills. A PG = to Bryce Cartwright and maybe 2 for depth in the event of foul trouble or injuries. I know, I am a demanding person.

 

[Ihawkhoops]

I do get a kick out of the 'Who do you think we are Duke, Kansas, or Kentucky?' responses. Clearly none of us think this, so to save time and energy you can stop asking. I am fully aware that we are Iowa and expectations are not allowed.

In all seriousness, I appreciate the good spirited discussion (even from those of you who don't admit I am right ). Always a Hawk fan, just like to see better recruiting results at the guard spots.

 

[Hawkeyestate81]

I do get a kick out of the 'Who do you think we are Duke, Kansas, or Kentucky?' responses. Clearly none of us think this, so to save time and energy you can stop asking. I am fully aware that we are Iowa and expectations are not allowed.

In all seriousness, I appreciate the good spirited discussion (even from those of you who don't admit I am right ). Always a Hawk fan, just like to see better recruiting results at the guard spots.

How do you know we aren't in good shape going forward? We don't, we've been stuck on the AC/MG train for 4 years, very excited for next years group.

 

[Ihawkhoops]

How do you know? Moss could emerge in one of those spots as well.

Good point. Don't know much about his game.

 

[Ihawkhoops]

How do you know we aren't in good shape going forward? We don't, we've been stuck on the AC/MG train for 4 years, very excited for next years group.

We could be. I like Williams a lot and if you haven't seen his You Tube videos, check them out. I am basing this a bit on the lack of impact guards have had since Fran has been here. Difficult to expect a lot from a new back court with 0 experience.

 

[Hawkeyestate81]

We could be. I like Williams a lot and if you haven't seen his You Tube videos, check them out. I am basing this a bit on the lack of impact guards have had since Fran has been here. Difficult to expect a lot from a new back court with 0 experience.

Bohannon will be a true scorer, we haven't had that yet. Williams seems to have the ability to get to the rim with ease and was encouraging to see him hit some jumpers and that 3 vs Nova. JB shooting 92% from FT line is also huge as our guards have been subpar in that phase of game which is critical. Athleticism/perimeter defense should be upgraded though I'm sure JB will struggle in that area out of the gate but love his scoring potential/shot making ability. Moss could be the Joker in Frans deck of cards.

 

[Hawkeyestate81]

Good point. Don't know much about his game.

Speak of the devil, Twitter conversation as we speak.

@marcmorehouse Does Moss have a shot at playing the 1?
marcmorehouse ‏@marcmorehouse 4m4 minutes ago
marcmorehouse Retweeted Brian Chisholm

Yes. How different will he be from Jok? That I don't know.

 

[SDHawkDoc]

I'm fine with Fran, whether he stays or goes of his own volition.

I do have an issue with the repeated return to the lick years as a justification.
At some point doesn't the statute of limitations expire on that excuse?
Year 6-7 seems to be sufficient time, even from that mess.

 

[ichawk24]

Good point. Don't know much about this game.

FTFY

 

[DavenportHawk8]

I am behind him because he has not been able to land his "White Whale" yet. He has gotten a couple of serviceable PGs, but none that are elite. Lets face it, in the college game, if you have an elite PG, your team can do wonders (IU, ISU, Kentucky, Kansas, etc). Fran has tried a couple of times to land some top PGs and failed. He went with the AC/MG experiment for the last 3 years. I am sorry but most coaches would take Mike Gesell for his defense and leadership. His offense on the other hand left something to be desired. But his defense and leadership was good. Fran tried landing Dickerson, but I assume that trey wasn't that excited to play defense.

I think Fran will start to get into the bigger areas and find some good guards in the future. Hell he found Bryce Cartwright and he came in and was decent. I mean you think about that team that Cartwright was on, he was pretty solid at getting into the lane and hitting floaters or driving in and dishing. That's why Basabe/White had so many dunks.

I am hoping Fran will find a good/great PG in the next 2 years and that will help us move forward. We have the post players coming and now need solid guard play to move up.

 

[djwoody]

History fools:

Lute Olson at Iowa: Average record 19-10/10-8
Tom Davis at Iowa: Average record 21-11/10-8
Fran McCaffery at Iowa: Average record 20-14/9-9

He's on par with the all-timers at Iowa in my lifetime.

 

[hawkifann]

I'm fine with Fran, whether he stays or goes of his own volition.

I do have an issue with the repeated return to the lick years as a justification.
At some point doesn't the statute of limitations expire on that excuse?
Year 6-7 seems to be sufficient time, even from that mess.

I think the point has been made that he's restored Iowa basketball to what it was before Alford. As others have said, recruiting wasn't easy in the early years because of the lackluster prior years and Iowa's status as a college basketball dumpster fire. So, he spent 5-6 years building Iowa back. Here we are. The question is, where do we go from here?

This is why I think the next 2-3 years will tell the story. For the past 2 years, Fran has been able to sell Iowa as an NCAA tourney program. This year's core came in when they were down and they've done a lot to lift Iowa up, but we'll see if the recruiting has been upgraded. I think there's a lot to like, but we'll see how they pan out.

 

[Suterman]

I am 110% behind Fran for sure. He has returned the program to it;s historic level and has returned us to Tom Davis level. Can he do better yet? I sure hope so and I sure think so. Have our guard recruits been great? Mike Gesell was a solid 4 year starter, great assist man, not a very good shooter. Sapp, I think, played up to his promise. Jok is progressing beautifully, Moss, Ellingson, Fleming, Hutton, Bohannon, Williams...too early to tell. Even with Tyler Ulis we may not have made the Sweet 16, Kentucky didn't.
If you think Sweet 16 is a low bar, Iowa Basketball is not for you. I think Fran will absolutely get us to the Sweet 16 and more, but you have to have patience. If you DEMAND success now, you are in for anger, disillusionment and disappointment.

 

[SJeagleEye]

Sute-

I wonder if Fran developed Mike or Woody enough during their time here?

Mike's ceiling but probably a bit lower, but he was HIGHLY rated. Woody was a top 10 center in his class. EVERY high major program wanted Woody.

How did Fran do with him and his talent?

Somedays, I think ok, a lot of days, I think Woody could have been much, much better.

 

[EZ2BJZ]

I think the next two to three years will be very telling in terms of recruiting and how far we can expect Fran to take the program. I'm optimistic that Fran will continue to build upon what he has already accomplished. Which, putting everything in perspective, has been a lot.

Also, there have been some great posts on this thread. Very enjoyable to read.

 

[EZ2BJZ]

Sute-

I wonder if Fran developed Mike or Woody enough during their time here?

Mike's ceiling but probably a bit lower, but he was HIGHLY rated. Woody was a top 10 center in his class. EVERY high major program wanted Woody.

How did Fran do with him and his talent?

Somedays, I think ok, a lot of days, I think Woody could have been much, much better.

Recruiting experts aren't always right. For example, Reiner and Worley were two highly thought of high school players that never lived up to the hype. There are so many factors involved in player development that can't always be placed on the coach. I'm not claiming that I know the ins and outs of why Woodbury and Gesell seemingly did not live up to their high school rankings, but the greater point is work ethic, physical/mental development, a lower than expected ceiling, are all contributing factors in how well a player develops beyond the influence of a coach. After all, they say people's brains don't fully develop until around age 24 or 25, so in reality we aren't dealing with fully developed human beings when they are being ranked at 16/17 years old.

Last, it should be also pointed out that Aaron White and Gabe Olaseni did a fabulous job of developing over time under Fran's tutelage. You just never know.

 

[ichawk24]

Gesell and Woodbury had limited development, but Whitey, Marble, Olaseni and others have all progressed well.

I'm not 110% Fran, and I'm not 0% Fran. Why do so many in our society have a binary outlook?

Fran is a solid coach, I'd guess slightly above average in power leagues. Does he have faults? Yes. Could Iowa easily do better? No.