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Ford rethinking EV strategy

Finance85

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Oct 22, 2003
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'Our Gen 2 vehicles won't launch unless we can get to a profit'

The reality of electric vehicle prices has finally caught up with the venerable US automaker Ford, which said yesterday that it's rethinking its loss-making EV strategy.…

The news came during Ford's Q4 2023 earnings call yesterday, and included revelations that the Detroit-based biz was also reassessing its EV battery strategy, a decision that comes as no surprise in the wake of delays announced last year.

"We delayed our second joint venture battery plant in Kentucky. We reduced the size of our new lithium iron phosphate plant in Michigan, and we did not proceed with our JV battery plant in Turkey," Ford CFO, John Lawler, said on the call.

"We are further adjusting installed capacity to match demand, reassessing vertical integration in new battery chemistries, adjusting Gen 2 products and potentially their launch timing to ensure they meet our criteria for profitability."

Lawler said much of the decision is due to a drive to reduce capital expenditure in Ford's EV division, named Model e. which he expects to eat up around 40 percent of this spending in the coming year.

"As we continue to adjust to market dynamics, we are scrutinizing every dollar and will continue to drive efficiencies, targeting to land at the lower end of our CapEx range," Lawler said.

Despite an overall increase in revenue of 12 percent and year-end profits of $4.3 billion, Ford's EV division lost almost $4.7 billion, Lawler said.

Ford CEO James Farley laid much of the blame for the losses on EV pricing - a known sticking point for consumers unwilling to pay thousands more for a vehicle while inflation is up and interest rates remain. high

"Relative to EVs, there's a lot we can do, and there's a lot we're doing. I think you're going to see a lot of seismic changes in the industry because of this pricing power reality that we've all faced," Farley said on the call. "It's on us to get the cost right. That is the issue with the transition."

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Ford & GM are both finding out they can't dictate market demand, and the push from Washington to rush the transition isn't working. There's a place for both EV's and ICE vehicles. Toyota is going down the hydrogen power path.
 
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I think the auto industry is stuck trying to push into the next phase of early majority, ironically 14% of the cars sold in 2022 were EV and that market is quickly drying up. Most of the next phase buyers are in a wait-and-see stage (myself included).

Innovation-Model.jpg
 
For this to get over that curve more robust charging network and better batteries will be needed to attract people. I'm most interested in the new solid-state batteries being developed that will be far less expensive, lighter, less flammable, allow hundreds more miles per charge, etc. Once these are available in EVs and the networks get more stations this will take off.
 
Hybrid is the way to go right now imo. Got a Jeep 4xe. Can go 20 miles on batteries alone, but still have the gas engine for longer trips. Plus it’s got major balls lol. Love it
Agreed. Keep developing EV and really push hybrid and plug in hybrid.
 
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what's the upkeep like on a hybrid. I imagine that after awhile there has to be battery issues/replacement.
 
I’m waiting on better range, particularly for highway / cold weather driving. When they get near ICE cars for that range, I’ll switch assuming the price isn’t way higher.
 
For this to get over that curve more robust charging network and better batteries will be needed to attract people. I'm most interested in the new solid-state batteries being developed that will be far less expensive, lighter, less flammable, allow hundreds more miles per charge, etc. Once these are available in EVs and the networks get more stations this will take off.
I really want EVs to arrive in full splendor. They just are not there yet for my needs. If I needed to purchase a new vehicle right now, I would very likely go hybrid, however.
 
We are buying a new (to us) vehicle this spring and an EV is not even a consideration. When EV's can mimic an ICE vehicle in range, range in cold temps, refueling time, and refueling network, then we will make the change over. Long way of saying we'll be late adopters. Probably looking at close to 10 years or more before I'd consider an EV.
 
what's the upkeep like on a hybrid. I imagine that after awhile there has to be battery issues/replacement.
Like anything, they only last for so long. My wife sold her 10 year old Lexus hybrid a year ago and never had any battery issues. I can say I’ve had my jeep 1.5 years and only had to change oil once because the battery powers me most the time.
 
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This can’t be, OP has stated several times EVs are being forced on everyone. Finally ready to admit that was moronic take?
 
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Personally, if i were Ford, I'd focus on making a secure keyless entry form of a combustion engine F150 before i worried too much about going all-electric:


(Just talked to my buddy this morning who got his, along with 20k in gear, taken last week at DIA. Apparently all it takes is an ipad and some software...)
 
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Ford & GM are both finding out they can't dictate market demand *for poor products*

Correction… Yes, bad products don’t sell.

and the push from Washington to rush the transition isn't working.

National Automobile Dealer Association (NADA) reports through 11 months of 2023, sales of 1,007,984 +50.7% increase year-over-year.



Screenshot-2023-12-05-at-14.30.23.png



There's a place for both EV's and ICE vehicles.

There is an ever decreasing use case for ICE vehicles that is accelerating. Battery cell density increases and battery cell cost declines will continue to erode the value proposition of an ICE vehicle.

Toyota is going down the hydrogen power path.

ff436bf9-7750-414f-8a33-58d6986237eb_text.gif
 
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I'm most interested in the new solid-state batteries being developed that will be far less expensive, lighter, less flammable, allow hundreds more miles per charge, etc.

Toyota has been claiming breakthroughs on solid state batteries for nearly a decade and no one rips them for not delivering. Weird.
 
Toyota has been claiming breakthroughs on solid state batteries for nearly a decade and no one rips them for not delivering. Weird.
Until batteries are structural, EVs will be too heavy to practically replace ICE vehicles. Even ICE vehicles are too heavy for reasonable road service life and safety.
 
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Until batteries are structural, EVs will be too heavy to practically replace ICE vehicles. Even ICE vehicles are too heavy for reasonable road service life and safety.

Newsflash, Tesla has made their latest Model Y battery cells / battery packs structural. Also, Cybertruck is structural too.
 
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Bigger issue is space. You lose all of the legroom in the third row of the Toyota sequoia.
what kind of mileage do you get with the sequoia? We've had several and the wife wants a new one but are they ever gas hogs.
 
what kind of mileage do you get with the sequoia? We've had several and the wife wants a new one but are they ever gas hogs.
We were hot to get one, but they only come in hybrid and the battery takes up all of the leg room in the third row. Even something like that Telluride would be more comfortable for an adult.
 
And they’re all heavy AF. It’s a safety problem and a civil engineering problem.
Teslas are one of the safest vehicles on the road. They rarely if ever roll over.


 
And they’re all heavy AF. It’s a safety problem and a civil engineering problem.

2024 Toyota Highlander Limited
Curb weight *4,453 pounds


2024 Tesla Model Y Long Range
Curb weight 4,363 pounds


*Correction.
 
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Personally, if i were Ford, I'd focus on making a secure keyless entry form of a combustion engine F150 before i worried too much about going all-electric:


(Just talked to my buddy this morning who got his, along with 20k in gear, taken last week at DIA. Apparently all it takes is an ipad and some software...)
What kind of dumbass parks his vehicle in the airport garage with thousands of dollars of goods inside?
 
2024 Toyota Highlander Limited
Curb weight *4,453 pounds


2024 Tesla Model Y Long Range
Curb weight 4,363 pounds


*Correction.
The Limited Highlander is closer to the Model X than the Model Y.

You selected a seven seat trim, in a longer vehicle with more interior space, and a greater towing capacity and compared it to a five seat trim version of the smaller Tesla.


 
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I love my Model Y, amazing car, but to get back to Iowa from where I live it still adds like 1.5-2 hours to an already long trip. I was hoping the cybertruck would be closer to the original announced specs and price as I think a 500 mile range could get me back there without having to go a different way.

Our old explorer went to shit and needed to unload it so we ended up getting a plug in hybrid Kia Sorento. It is great for my wife since she doesn't drive much around during the day but we can use it on road trips and get decent gas milage. I just drove it the other day and it is averaging 68.7 MPG on the current tank of gas which is about a fourth gone. Since she can drive on all electric most of the time, it really saves the gas.

Nothing beats driving an EV though...Once Tesla start making their lower end Cybertruck models available and the battery pack expansion, I will get serious again about going all electric.
 
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