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Former Players v. Football Program *** Thread

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Just read the two cases briefed and Waterman and I still opine the claims are time barred for all but three of the plaintiffs.

In a nutshell, albeit a big nut shell, a new statute, adopted in 1989 created a four year SoL for cases arising under federal statutes enacted after 1990. The Plaintiff's claims arise from 42/1981 - a post Civil War statute so those claims remain clearly under a 2 year SoL. Section 1983 was a new, general expansion of section 1981, passed in 1979-so claims brought under the original part of section 1983 are still governed by the original by the two year SoL that has been applied since the original post Civil War Civil Rights Acts were passed.

This is the complete language of 42/1983

Every person who, under color of any statute, ordinance, regulation, custom, or usage, of any State or Territory or the District of Columbia, subjects, or causes to be subjected, any citizen of the United States or other person within the jurisdiction thereof to the deprivation of any rights, privileges, or immunities secured by the Constitution and laws, shall be liable to the party injured in an action at law, suit in equity, or other proper proceeding for redress, except that in any action brought against a judicial officer for an act or omission taken in such officer’s judicial capacity, injunctive relief shall not be granted unless a declaratory decree was violated or declaratory relief was unavailable. For the purposes of this section, any Act of Congress applicable exclusively to the District of Columbia shall be considered to be a statute of the District of Columbia.

This brings the case to the 1996 Amendment to 42/1983. If the Plaintiff's claims arose under the amended language then the four year SoL applies. Here's the amended part:

"except that in any action brought against a judicial officer for an act or omission taken in such officer's judicial capacity, injunctive relief shall not be granted unless a declaratory decree was violated or declaratory relief was unavailable"

The key language is under what federal law the claims arose. "We conclude that a cause of action 'aris[es] under an Act of Congress enacted' after December 1, 1990—and therefore is governed by § 1658's 4-year statute of limitations—if the plaintiff's claim against the defendant was made possible by a post-1990 enactment." Jones v. R. R. Donnelley & Sons Co., 541 U.S. 369, 158 L.Ed.2d 645 (2004). Jones is the ultimate controlling authority on this principle and the only other case Plaintiffs cited. The Plaintiffs' have at least one claim that purportedly arises under 42/1983, but that does not answer the complete question. The Plaintiff's claims clearly do not invoke or even touch upon the 1996 Amendment (red). The plaintiffs' 42/1983 claims clearly arise under the original 1979 language (green) and were made possible by the original language (green) of 42/1983, assuming the Court does not treat the otherwise irrelevant 1996 amendment as creating an entirely new basis for a 1983 recovery, a reading of the statute and its legislative history that seems obviously wrong but it is not impossible for the Court to find a way to that conclusion. I do not think Judge Rose is that judicially adventurous, more of a straight balls/strikes kind of judge-which is the kind of judges the system needs.

Williams and Waterman are by the same judge, a particularly smart one. They are a year apart and Williams is newer. In Williams (the case upon which Plaintiffs rely), the violation of federal rights arose from a new 1996 statute that created a federal action for violations of the act, rather than either 1981 or the original and remaining substantive language of 1983 (green). This is a smart argument by Plaintiffs' lawyers but I opine it will not save them from the SoL. There have been several northern and southern district (of Iowa) cases that apply the 2 year limit to 1983 actions because the 1996 amendment does not create an actionable federal right; indeed, the 1996 amendment limits the scope of the original 1983 language.

So I think we're back to the claims of three Plaintiffs and those claims are very weak. They will most likely be dismissed on summary judgment because they cannot reach the level of a "hostile work environment" and establish no individual act that is by itself actionable.
 
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This is one of those things for which there is no 5 year old version. The details are very important.

In the simplest terms, the plaintiffs came up with a clever but ultimately insufficient argument and ten of the plaintiffs are going to be dismissed because of a lapse in the statute of limitation (e.g. waited too long).
 
The law allows for things to be treated differently based on different conditions. If you're familiar with computer programming ... it's like exception handling.

Anyhow, I believe our fellow Hawk fan is essentially saying that the plaintiff's primary argument is based on the older language of the law - but the period of time over which they can claim "foul" based on that particular argument is limited (just 2 years versus 4 years).

Then, if this interpretation is correct ... then fewer of the former Hawks have the right to claim "foul" ... and, should that be true, then only 3 claims likely fall within the last 2 years. Furthermore, it is perceived that the claims of those 3 are particularly weak. Consequently, if the claims are really that weak ... then the charges would simply be dismissed.
 
If by chance the 3 players did win, would the 20 million then be divided amongst the 3 players rather then the 10 or so players? Or does could the court say their was some issues with these 3 players and we do not feel it was 20 million dollars worth of damages and pick their own amount of money that would seem justified.
 
If by chance the 3 players did win, would the 20 million then be divided amongst the 3 players rather then the 10 or so players? Or does could the court say their was some issues with these 3 players and we do not feel it was 20 million dollars worth of damages and pick their own amount of money that would seem justified.

Another aspect of the propaganda nature of the suit. You don't sue in what is called "tort" claims for a specific amount. In fact, in Iowa pleadings of tort claims you are prohibited from designating an amount other than a statement that damages exceed the jurisdictional limit. A rule more notable in its adherence rather than its breach but its still in our rules.

Plaintiff's announce these massive judgment demands to make their cases seem stronger to the general public, the judges don't care about the amount of the prayer and they or juries in jury trials are not bound by such a demand-not even to give it presumption of credibility. In the unlikely event the Plaintiffs win the jury could give them anything from nominal damages, like $1 or millions. It depends on the case and the jury.

In the unlikely event they win these Plaintiff's have more nominal than real damages.
 
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Another aspect of the propaganda nature of the suit. You don't sue in what is called "tort" claims for a specific amount. In fact, in Iowa pleadings of tort claims you are prohibited from designating an amount other than a statement that damages exceed the jurisdictional limit. A rule more notable in its adherence rather than its breach but its still in our rules.

Plaintiff's announce these massive judgment demands to make their cases seem stronger to the general public, the judges don't care about the amount of the prayer and they or juries in jury trials are not bound by such a demand-not even to give it presumption of credibility. In the unlikely event the Plaintiffs win the jury could give them anything from nominal damages, like $1 or millions. It depends on the case and the jury.

In the unlikely event they win these Plaintiff's have more nominal than real damages.

Given some of the claims ... it strikes me that some of them would have been best reconciled through the University's own internal process. Obviously, the plaintiff's attorney will claim that the power differential impeded players from feeling comfortable or empowered enough to pursue such a route. As you indicate, given the sheer number of guys who go through those doors ... there's probably a pretty strong argument to suggest that the a number of inappropriate actions strung over a long window of time really may not satisfy the burden of being chronic or pervasive enough to constitute a hostile environment.

Given that the situation could have been reconciled so much more easily through internal processes and those processes were never exercised in this case ... it strikes me that the case could easily be perceived as being rather frivolous. However, that's also with me looking from the outside in. I AM struck by the fact that Amani Hooker stated that he felt like a lot of black players felt like they were walking on egg-shells in the program. However, if this is the case - then why wouldn't the plaintiff's case be stronger?
 
Given some of the claims ... it strikes me that some of them would have been best reconciled through the University's own internal process. Obviously, the plaintiff's attorney will claim that the power differential impeded players from feeling comfortable or empowered enough to pursue such a route. As you indicate, given the sheer number of guys who go through those doors ... there's probably a pretty strong argument to suggest that the a number of inappropriate actions strung over a long window of time really may not satisfy the burden of being chronic or pervasive enough to constitute a hostile environment.

Given that the situation could have been reconciled so much more easily through internal processes and those processes were never exercised in this case ... it strikes me that the case could easily be perceived as being rather frivolous. However, that's also with me looking from the outside in. I AM struck by the fact that Amani Hooker stated that he felt like a lot of black players felt like they were walking on egg-shells in the program. However, if this is the case - then why wouldn't the plaintiff's case be stronger?

You know the easiest test of this as pure bullshit. Ferentz has now officially been around forever. Look at a team picture. If Iowa had a real reputation for a racially hostile environment the team picture wouldn't look like it does in 2021. Black kids would have been scared off 15 years ago.
 
You know the easiest test of this as pure bullshit. Ferentz has now officially been around forever. Look at a team picture. If Iowa had a real reputation for a racially hostile environment the team picture wouldn't look like it does in 2021. Black kids would have been scared off 15 years ago.
I don't know about that entirely. Given what I do know about Ferentz and Doyle ... I can definitely see how the environment that they created could have been one that discouraged individuals from exhibiting any counter-culture associations and/r tendencies. That is a hallmark of the business/professional community too. In terms of explicit intention - I don't believe that the underlying philosophy had the intent to discriminate. However, all the same, to the individual - it can be perceived as impeding upon their individual expression and their identity. Thus, some of the guys certainly interpreted it through a racial periscope.

There was also the instance of the "spitting story" ... where one of the black players indicated that when he got caught spitting ... Doyle jumped all over his case. However, the guy suggested that he'd observed many white players do the same ... without any repercussions. This would be regarded as one instance of POSSIBLE disparate treatment. However, the problem with immediately jumping to the conclusion that it was disparate treatment premised upon race ... is that it certainly could have been a reach. For instance, maybe Doyle was "in a mood" ... and seeing a guy do something that supposedly didn't mesh with the "Iowa way" ... it triggered him to go off on the guy. Alternatively, Doyle may have been noting that individual's behaviors for a while ... and the guy may have been slacking in the weight-room or whatever ... and there really may have been real disparate treatment ... however, it may have been premised more upon him (Doyle) wanting to discipline a guy who was going "off the tracks" in terms of how the guy was going about his business. I can relate to this - because, as an instructor, I can attest that one of the top things I observe that keeps my students from achieving at their potential - is their approach to the material. Of course, if this was Doyle's motive - then there was a clear breakdown in communication - because the guy didn't know WHY he was specifically targeted when the others hadn't been targeted. Given that African-Americans grow up experiencing explicit disparate treatment all of the time - it's not a stretch as to why he might ultimately conclude that the disparate treatment received at the hands of Doyle was linked to race [whether that be the case or not].

Anyhow, we look at these sorts of things - if this was part of the prior undercurrent in the Iowa program - then it's not hard to understand Amani Hooker's statement about walking on eggshells. Because, irrespective of intention, the perception of being treated differently could easily lead to the conclusion that it was attributable to race.

But then why did that not simply "run off" all the black players? Firstly, because as any form of discrimination goes - its not as overt. Thus, it simply acts as a selective pressure. Many African Americans are familiar with or regularly experience worse ... guys with stronger personalities are more likely to be incensed and get genuinely pissed off - those outspoken-types are the guys who'd get run off. Alternatively, to guys who have really strong NFL ambitions ... Iowa might just be a means to an end. For those guys ... the selective pressure doesn't run them off ... because, in terms of risk-reward ... the trade-off between being mildly discriminated against and developing into a NFL-quality player leads the player to "tolerate" things.

Also, some of the guys might compartmentalize things too ... and still like how Ferentz and their position coach truly care for them. Furthermore, they players also typically develop strong friendships with their fellow players - and that is another social force that ties them to the program. (an opposing force, countering the selective pressure)

Thus, I don't think that the "proof is in the pudding" argument quite applies here. I believe that it really is more nuanced. However, I also suspect that a definite portion of the problems were perceptual. Consequently, I think that "fixes" were reasonably easy for the program to make - in order to change the environment.
 
There was also the instance of the "spitting story" ... where one of the black players indicated that when he got caught spitting ... Doyle jumped all over his case. However, the guy suggested that he'd observed many white players do the same ... without any repercussions. This would be regarded as one instance of POSSIBLE disparate treatment.
This has already been shown to not be the case, when a former white player shared a specific story about getting kicked out of practice/session by Doyle for spitting.

Here's the kicker, this story was shared on a podcast released well before the June firestorm started.
 
You know the easiest test of this as pure bullshit. Ferentz has now officially been around forever. Look at a team picture. If Iowa had a real reputation for a racially hostile environment the team picture wouldn't look like it does in 2021. Black kids would have been scared off 15 years ago.
You think all the players who have come forward are just spouting bullshit? Take a hike.
 
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This has already been shown to not be the case, when a former white player shared a specific story about getting kicked out of practice/session by Doyle for spitting.

Here's the kicker, this story was shared on a podcast released well before the June firestorm started.
Exactly ... that was part of my point ... the "spitting example" had no racial motive ... however, to a black player who hadn't observed white players face the same consequence ... it may have been perceived as disparate treatment (possibly due to race).

Why do you think that Ferentz has been placing such a great emphasis on "listening." By encouraging his players to feel "heard" ... it can help to improve communication. Improved communication can help to undermine the possibilities of MISCOMMUNICATIONS. Many perceived racial slights ... are simply the result of miscommunications.

Of course, there WERE enough documented stupid things stated or done by Brian and Doyle to serve as confirmation bias to some of the players. That's why such perceptions were able to linger around the program.

However, as I've stated several time ... had the players felt comfortable enough to speak up about some of those isolated events ... then Brian's and Doyle's isolated missteps could have been immediately corrected ... and the perceptions would have been able to be stamped out from the outset.

Again, that is why there now is the group of parents and former players who serve as advocates for the players - so that they can speak up and feel empowered if they perceive that anything has occurred. This facilitates a "FEEDBACK CONTROL" (administrative controls - for the management theorists out there) that helps to correct when people do stupid things (people are people - and prone to do stupid things - doesn't mean they are "bad," a "racist," a "thug," etc). Furthermore, it helps to better deal with perceptions, misperceptions, and miscommunications. Then, if the students are feeling "heard" and know that the coaches WANT them to feel "heard" ... then they'll be more likely to USE these new feedback mechanisms that are at their disposal.
 
You think all the players who have come forward are just spouting bullshit? Take a hike.
I think that perception impacts what we observe.

I agree that the many of the players were/are not spouting bullshit.

I also think that many folks are prone to be too "binary" in their thinking ... and think that an individual is simply a "racist" or not a "racist." How we label people can be damaging ... and even worse ... it's often not even accurate.

Specifically, I believe that Brian and Doyle are likely prone to be "assholes" ... but that isn't the same things as being "racist." Also, being white and not experiencing what their players experience ... I can see it being easy for them to say or do something that is "racist" ... even though they likely didn't think it was racist at the time.

Again, when we're talking about labels ... such occasional missteps MIGHT be revealing a window into the racist tendencies of an individual ... OR they might just be highlighting isolated actions of an unthinking asshole.

We, as humanity, ourselves have the stupid tendency to jump to generalizations based on incomplete data.
 
I think that perception impacts what we observe.

I agree that the many of the players were/are not spouting bullshit.

I also think that many folks are prone to be too "binary" in their thinking ... and think that an individual is simply a "racist" or not a "racist." How we label people can be damaging ... and even worse ... it's often not even accurate.

Specifically, I believe that Brian and Doyle are likely prone to be "assholes" ... but that isn't the same things as being "racist." Also, being white and not experiencing what their players experience ... I can see it being easy for them to say or do something that is "racist" ... even though they likely didn't think it was racist at the time.

Again, when we're talking about labels ... such occasional missteps MIGHT be revealing a window into the racist tendencies of an individual ... OR they might just be highlighting isolated actions of an unthinking asshole.

We, as humanity, ourselves have the stupid tendency to jump to generalizations based on incomplete data.

This is the issue at its core I think. There are legitimate complaints about the program. Seems like most actually but you have a handful that have really taken things too far. And totally agree, BF and Doyle are known to be assholes. Especially Doyle and whether we acknowledge it or not, we all have implicit bias and that bias might be racial. Doyle might not even have known what he was saying or doing could be considered as racially biased or that a rule came off as racially biased but that doesn't it mean it wasn't. I also think Kirk probably turned a blind eye to some complaints and didn't go far enough to change things when they first did the internal report a couple of years ago because he was biased in favor of his friend Doyle. And some of the stuff that was brought up as a bias issue is not even football related but more academic related which is really not just an Iowa issue it is a national issue.
 
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I think that perception impacts what we observe.

I agree that the many of the players were/are not spouting bullshit.

I also think that many folks are prone to be too "binary" in their thinking ... and think that an individual is simply a "racist" or not a "racist." How we label people can be damaging ... and even worse ... it's often not even accurate.


For those who aren't familiar with it, I think the NYT article about a student at Smith College being in a place she was not expected/supposed to be - and her judging her treatment to be a result of racism - is a somewhat similar case in terms of 'perception', 'reality', and if either or both of those are subjective.

A particular line in the article has gotten a lot of attention:
"The story highlights the tensions between a student’s deeply felt sense of personal truth and facts that are at odds with it. "
 
For those who aren't familiar with it, I think the NYT article about a student at Smith College being in a place she was not expected/supposed to be - and her judging her treatment to be a result of racism - is a somewhat similar case in terms of 'perception', 'reality', and if either or both of those are subjective.

A particular line in the article has gotten a lot of attention:
"The story highlights the tensions between a student’s deeply felt sense of personal truth and facts that are at odds with it. "
A lot of people go about using the single data-point, that is their life, to generalize and perceive trends. However, their logic really might be premised upon bad data. A person's life just might suck ... or they might have had bad experiences ... but the conclusions they base upon that information might not truly be representative of "truths" on different scales.

On the flip side ... some folks might have great lives and never have experienced any sort of discrimination ... and they think that their successes are all their own. Those individuals don't realize that the narratives from their life aren't terribly representative either. Furthermore, they might be oblivious to all the "available infrastructure" along the way that helped to propel them along such a positive life-trajectory.

Things are rarely as rosy or gloomy as they appear ...
 
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Just getting around to checking the electronic docket - been out-of-state for depositions and up to my ears in proverbial alligators . . .

Docket #23 - Court Order entered on 3/2/21 Court enters Order granting the parties' joint request for a Scheduling Conference (see Post #153 in which Docket #21 is mentioned). Telephonic Scheduling Conference is scheduled for March 15th at 10:30 a.m. CDT. I fully expect that the Court will preside over discussion about whether a Scheduling Order should be entered immediately or whether it will prefer for a Scheduling Order to entered after the Court rules on the Motion to Dismiss. I can see it going either way but, if I was forced to bet money, I'd bet that the Court wants a schedule put in place immediately rather than waiting.

Since this was a joint motion, nothing surprising about the ruling.

Docket #24 - Defendants' Motion for Extension of Time to File Reply Brief. Filed on Friday (3/5). Defendants ask for an extension of time until 3/29 to file a Reply Brief. This would amount to an extra 21 days to file the Reply (Reply briefs are typically due 7 days after the Response brief is filed). As expected (since the Defendants did not object to either of the Plaintiffs' Motions for Extension of Time - Docket ## 17 and 19), Plaintiffs do not object to the requested extension.

When I started this post, my initial comment was going to be that I expect that the Court will grant an extension of time and that it was most likely going to allow for the reply brief to be filed on or before 3/29 because Plaintiffs received a total of 42 days to file their response brief and because Plaintiffs were consenting to the time requested.

However . . . just before hitting "Post Reply," I went to close the browser for the SD IA's electronic docket and seee that the Court entered:

Docket #25 - (entered morning of Monday 3/8) Defendants' Motion for Extension of Time granted in part and denied in part. Extension of time granted but only to 3/19. Court slices 10 days off of what was requested by the Defendants.

Am I surprised? Yes . . . a bit . . . but I'm not knocked off my chair or offended by the Order. - at least not yet.

Plaintiffs received two extensions without objection by the Plaintiffs and Plaintiffs weren't objecting to the Defendants' request for time. Further, in the Defendants' motion, it is identified that they have several other deadlines and are preparing for an 8th Circuit Court of Appeals argument. Finally, Defendants have not sought any extensions of time to file Motions to Dismiss with respect to the original Complaint and the Amended Complaint.

On the other hand, reply briefs are not always filed and, under a typical schedule, the time to file a reply is less than the time allowed to file a response. As currently structured, the Plaintiffs received 42 days to file their response and Defendants will have 18 days to file their Reply (now due on Friday, 3/19). I would have expected that the Court would have given Defendants the full weekend before the deadline to finalize the Reply - making it due on 3/21.

Now . . . all that being written . . . the Reply due date may be discussed at the telephonic scheduling conference on Monday, March 15th. I would not be shocked if the Defendants ultimately get some more time to get it finalized (and I'd expect that Plaintiffs would consent).

If add'l time is requested AND if it is denied by the Court, then I'll be extremely surprised and take issue with the Court's approach.

Back to real work . . . .
 
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This is the issue at its core I think. There are legitimate complaints about the program. Seems like most actually but you have a handful that have really taken things too far. And totally agree, BF and Doyle are known to be assholes. Especially Doyle and whether we acknowledge it or not, we all have implicit bias and that bias might be racial. Doyle might not even have known what he was saying or doing could be considered as racially biased or that a rule came off as racially biased but that doesn't it mean it wasn't. I also think Kirk probably turned a blind eye to some complaints and didn't go far enough to change things when they first did the internal report a couple of years ago because he was biased in favor of his friend Doyle. And some of the stuff that was brought up as a bias issue is not even football related but more academic related which is really not just an Iowa issue it is a national issue.
Your last sentence is a key point that I think often gets lost, especially as it relates to other programs using this racial bias concept against Iowa....I find it hard to believe that other programs don’t also have drill sargeant type of weight training instructors that sometimes say stupid things to the players. I’m not down playing what various Iowa players encountered (or perceived as racism); I just think this type of thing happens all across the country at football programs.
 
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I just think this type of thing happens all across the country at football programs.

FWIW . . . I'm thinking that the NFL players who posted tweets critical of Doyle and/or Brian Ferentz might have had a few conversations with fellow NFL players about their college experiences before they shared their thoughts on social media. I'd really be surprised if that wasn't the case.
 
Just getting around to checking the electronic docket - been out-of-state for depositions and up to my ears in proverbial alligators . . .

Docket #23 - Court Order entered on 3/2/21 Court enters Order granting the parties' joint request for a Scheduling Conference (see Post #153 in which Docket #21 is mentioned). Telephonic Scheduling Conference is scheduled for March 15th at 10:30 a.m. CDT. I fully expect that the Court will preside over discussion about whether a Scheduling Order should be entered immediately or whether it will prefer for a Scheduling Order to entered after the Court rules on the Motion to Dismiss. I can see it going either way but, if I was forced to bet money, I'd bet that the Court wants a schedule put in place immediately rather than waiting.

Since this was a joint motion, nothing surprising about the ruling.

Docket #24 - Defendants' Motion for Extension of Time to File Reply Brief. Filed on Friday (3/5). Defendants ask for an extension of time until 3/29 to file a Reply Brief. This would amount to an extra 21 days to file the Reply (Reply briefs are typically due 7 days after the Response brief is filed). As expected (since the Defendants did not object to either of the Plaintiffs' Motions for Extension of Time - Docket ## 17 and 19), Plaintiffs do not object to the requested extension.

When I started this post, my initial comment was going to be that I expect that the Court will grant an extension of time and that it was most likely going to allow for the reply brief to be filed on or before 3/29 because Plaintiffs received a total of 42 days to file their response brief and because Plaintiffs were consenting to the time requested.

However . . . just before hitting "Post Reply," I went to close the browser for the SD IA's electronic docket and seee that the Court entered:

Docket #25 - (entered morning of Monday 3/8) Defendants' Motion for Extension of Time granted in part and denied in part. Extension of time granted but only to 3/19. Court slices 10 days off of what was requested by the Defendants.

Am I surprised? Yes . . . a bit . . . but I'm not knocked off my chair or offended by the Order. - at least not yet.

Plaintiffs received two extensions without objection by the Plaintiffs and Plaintiffs weren't objecting to the Defendants' request for time. Further, in the Defendants' motion, it is identified that they have several other deadlines and are preparing for an 8th Circuit Court of Appeals argument. Finally, Defendants have not sought any extensions of time to file Motions to Dismiss with respect to the original Complaint and the Amended Complaint.

On the other hand, reply briefs are not always filed and, under a typical schedule, the time to file a reply is less than the time allowed to file a response. As currently structured, the Plaintiffs received 42 days to file their response and Defendants will have 18 days to file their Reply (now due on Friday, 3/19). I would have expected that the Court would have given Defendants the full weekend before the deadline to finalize the Reply - making it due on 3/21.

Now . . . all that being written . . . the Reply due date may be discussed at the telephonic scheduling conference on Monday, March 15th. I would not be shocked if the Defendants ultimately get some more time to get it finalized (and I'd expect that Plaintiffs would consent).

If add'l time is requested AND if it is denied by the Court, then I'll be extremely surprised and take issue with the Court's approach.

Back to real work . . . .

Shortening the requested extension could also be a subconscious or even conscious signal that Judge Rose has already decided some of the issues, like the SoL which seems pretty straight forward and easily decided. Would not be surprised if the clerks have not already fully researched the SoL issue and there really does appear to be only one legally correct result.
 
Shortening the requested extension could also be a subconscious or even conscious signal that Judge Rose has already decided some of the issues, like the SoL which seems pretty straight forward and easily decided. Would not be surprised if the clerks have not already fully researched the SoL issue and there really does appear to be only one legally correct result.

I'd be very surprised if, in about one week after receiving Plaintiff's brief, Judge Rose's law clerks have reached the point that they've completed their research, drafted bench memorandum and Judge Rose has already reached a decision. This area of the law isn't her specialty. She's got other cases that are occupying her time. The law clerks have other cases that are occupying their time.

I'd be more inclined to believe that the Order simply granted a 14 day extension because it is exactly twice the amount of time that is typically allowed for a reply brief (7 days).

The issues that I'm most interested in watching are (a) whether the Court insists upon entering a Scheduling Order after the March 15, 2021 hearing and, if so, (b) how long it will take for Judge Rose to issue a substantive ruling on the Motion to Dismiss and, finally, (c) whether the Court stays all discovery until a substantive ruling is issued.

If I were defense counsel, I would be working on a carefully crafted Motion to Stay Discovery pursuant to FRCP 26(c) and to get that motion on file before the 3/15/21 telephonic status hearing.
 
I'd be very surprised if, in about one week after receiving Plaintiff's brief, Judge Rose's law clerks have reached the point that they've completed their research, drafted bench memorandum and Judge Rose has already reached a decision. This area of the law isn't her specialty. She's got other cases that are occupying her time. The law clerks have other cases that are occupying their time.

I'd be more inclined to believe that the Order simply granted a 14 day extension because it is exactly twice the amount of time that is typically allowed for a reply brief (7 days).

The issues that I'm most interested in watching are (a) whether the Court insists upon entering a Scheduling Order after the March 15, 2021 hearing and, if so, (b) how long it will take for Judge Rose to issue a substantive ruling on the Motion to Dismiss and, finally, (c) whether the Court stays all discovery until a substantive ruling is issued.

If I were defense counsel, I would be working on a carefully crafted Motion to Stay Discovery pursuant to FRCP 26(c) and to get that motion on file before the 3/15/21 telephonic status hearing.


I'll bet they jumped right on that SoL argument. Its a common issue on which there is substantial case law and the general rule is clear. It only took about an hour to confirm the section 1680 (I think) federal SoL does not apply to the kinds of actions plaintiff's are maintaining. Plaintiff's only cited two cases, neither of which applies because of the "arising" nature of their claims. It really is not a complicated issue. Given the large body of law hostile to Plaintiff's position I don't think it would take a week to get that jurisprudential response put together, of course depending on the need for clerks on other cases. I spent about an hour on it-bored obviously, plus I litigated it once or twice so I have some interest in the SoL issue. So that part of the ruling/research was probably the first assignment-get the easy issue off the table early, especially if that takes out 10 of 13 plaintiffs; a development that would seem to greatly impact the schedule.

Defense definitely should seek a protective order of some kind to stay discovery before the Court rules on whether 10/13 plaintiff's are going to be dismissed. It would make no sense to grant discovery rights to parties that will be dismissed before the pleading stage.
 
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Docket #26 - Minute Entry - March 15th - Court status conference took place. Lasted 11 minutes. Contents of what may or may not have been discussed is not apparent by the Minute Entry.

Docket #27 - Order - March 15th - Case set for subsequent status conference on 5/11/21 at 10:00 a.m. No discovery order entered. No scheduling order entered. It is fair to speculate that one or both parties asked the Court to refrain from entering any type of scheduling order or discovery order pending resolution of the arguments raised in the Motion to Dismiss. Given that the conference lasted only 11 minutes (see Docket #26), it does not strike me that it was hotly contested. To the contrary, it appears to me that the court and the attorneys were "on the same page" and understand that discovery/scheduling should only take place once the parameters of the case are more clear.

FWIW, 5/11/21 is just short of two months after the defendants will file their reply brief. My thought is that Judge Bremer (the Magistrate judge) anticipates that Judge Rose (the Article III judge) will have her opinion finalized and entered before 5/11/21.

No further thoughts . . . back to vacation.
 
FWIW . . . I'm thinking that the NFL players who posted tweets critical of Doyle and/or Brian Ferentz might have had a few conversations with fellow NFL players about their college experiences before they shared their thoughts on social media. I'd really be surprised if that wasn't the case.

People giving thought before social media posts?????? No way. And people like Mitt Romney with an alias of Pierre Delecto.
 
Docket #26 - Minute Entry - March 15th - Court status conference took place. Lasted 11 minutes. Contents of what may or may not have been discussed is not apparent by the Minute Entry.

Docket #27 - Order - March 15th - Case set for subsequent status conference on 5/11/21 at 10:00 a.m. No discovery order entered. No scheduling order entered. It is fair to speculate that one or both parties asked the Court to refrain from entering any type of scheduling order or discovery order pending resolution of the arguments raised in the Motion to Dismiss. Given that the conference lasted only 11 minutes (see Docket #26), it does not strike me that it was hotly contested. To the contrary, it appears to me that the court and the attorneys were "on the same page" and understand that discovery/scheduling should only take place once the parameters of the case are more clear.

FWIW, 5/11/21 is just short of two months after the defendants will file their reply brief. My thought is that Judge Bremer (the Magistrate judge) anticipates that Judge Rose (the Article III judge) will have her opinion finalized and entered before 5/11/21.

No further thoughts . . . back to vacation.

Lawyers do not take vacations. We merely move our billing location offsite. By the way, Squire, thanks for the case updates.
 
Docket Entry #28 - Friday (3/19) - Defendants' Motion to File Overlength Brief (Reply Brief) - motion is unresisted by Plaintiffs. Local Rule 7(g) allows for Reply briefs to be a maximum of 5 pages unless leave of court is obtained. Such motions are routinely consented to by an opposing party and, if so, the court will grant them nearly as a matter of course. The proposed reply brief is attached as an exhibit to the motion.

Docket Entry #29 - Friday (3/19) - Defendants' Motion to File Overlength Brief is, as would be expected, granted. Defendants' proposed 11 page Reply Brief is accepted by the court and officially filed. Nothing in the docket - at least thus far - suggesting that Judge Rose will entertain oral argument on the motions. That's not to say that argument cannot be scheduled later . . . it is simply not currently scheduled. Common public perception is that motions are always argued in court before a ruling is issued. Not accurate at all. Argument in federal court is far from the norm and Judge Rose may be inclined to simply issue her ruling based upon the submissions provided by the parties. Notably, Defendants' Motion to Dismiss the First Amended Complaint (Docket #16) does not ask the court to entertain argument nor does the Reply Brief (Docket #28). My guess? Judge Rose rules on the written submissions.

I just finished perusing the Reply Brief. Nothing particularly unexpected but one particular sentence stuck out to me and left me scratching my head as to why it would be included in the Reply Brief:

"Peeling off the layers of obfuscating allegations and meritless or time-barred claims—many of which Plaintiffs now make no effort to defend—the essence of what remains is, at best, a weak Title VI hostile environment suit involving only three Plaintiffs."

In my opinion, that sentence represents a tactical mistake. This is awfully damn close to conceding that three plaintiffs - Mends, Simon and Foy - have satisfied their burden of stating a claim under Title VI. I was also a bit surprised at the lack of substance addressing the argument that certain allegations should be governed by a four year statute of limitations as opposed to a two year statute of limitations. While Defendants argue that the 8th Circuit consistently applies a two year statute of limitations, the brief concedes that other circuits have adopted differing approaches. I expected a much more detailed argument than what Defendants' counsel submitted.

The balance of the Reply Brief does an OK job of attacking the Plaintiffs' First Amended Complaint and the arguments raised in Plaintiffs' Response Brief. I found several typos in the submission and it makes me wonder if it was "rushed" to be filed on the 3/19 due date.

What do I expect the ruling to be? Would be pure guess on my part right now. I'd have to sit down and carefully re-read the submissions and try to map out what has been alleged and how it pertains to each defendant. I am confident in stating that I find the First Amended Complaint to be a "mess" and difficult to digest. The allegations are, quite frankly, disorganized and "all over the place." It will make Judge Rose's job difficult as she parses through each of the remaining counts.

Today is Monday (3/22). The next status conference is May 11th. I'll go out on a limb and predict that Judge Rose's ruling will be issued no earlier than Friday, April 30th.

For now, I intend to check the docket once a week (probably on Fridays) just to see if there has been any activity. I'll post if I seen any activity.
 
Docket Entry #28 - Friday (3/19) - Defendants' Motion to File Overlength Brief (Reply Brief) - motion is unresisted by Plaintiffs. Local Rule 7(g) allows for Reply briefs to be a maximum of 5 pages unless leave of court is obtained. Such motions are routinely consented to by an opposing party and, if so, the court will grant them nearly as a matter of course. The proposed reply brief is attached as an exhibit to the motion.

Docket Entry #29 - Friday (3/19) - Defendants' Motion to File Overlength Brief is, as would be expected, granted. Defendants' proposed 11 page Reply Brief is accepted by the court and officially filed. Nothing in the docket - at least thus far - suggesting that Judge Rose will entertain oral argument on the motions. That's not to say that argument cannot be scheduled later . . . it is simply not currently scheduled. Common public perception is that motions are always argued in court before a ruling is issued. Not accurate at all. Argument in federal court is far from the norm and Judge Rose may be inclined to simply issue her ruling based upon the submissions provided by the parties. Notably, Defendants' Motion to Dismiss the First Amended Complaint (Docket #16) does not ask the court to entertain argument nor does the Reply Brief (Docket #28). My guess? Judge Rose rules on the written submissions.

I just finished perusing the Reply Brief. Nothing particularly unexpected but one particular sentence stuck out to me and left me scratching my head as to why it would be included in the Reply Brief:

"Peeling off the layers of obfuscating allegations and meritless or time-barred claims—many of which Plaintiffs now make no effort to defend—the essence of what remains is, at best, a weak Title VI hostile environment suit involving only three Plaintiffs."

In my opinion, that sentence represents a tactical mistake. This is awfully damn close to conceding that three plaintiffs - Mends, Simon and Foy - have satisfied their burden of stating a claim under Title VI. I was also a bit surprised at the lack of substance addressing the argument that certain allegations should be governed by a four year statute of limitations as opposed to a two year statute of limitations. While Defendants argue that the 8th Circuit consistently applies a two year statute of limitations, the brief concedes that other circuits have adopted differing approaches. I expected a much more detailed argument than what Defendants' counsel submitted.

The balance of the Reply Brief does an OK job of attacking the Plaintiffs' First Amended Complaint and the arguments raised in Plaintiffs' Response Brief. I found several typos in the submission and it makes me wonder if it was "rushed" to be filed on the 3/19 due date.

What do I expect the ruling to be? Would be pure guess on my part right now. I'd have to sit down and carefully re-read the submissions and try to map out what has been alleged and how it pertains to each defendant. I am confident in stating that I find the First Amended Complaint to be a "mess" and difficult to digest. The allegations are, quite frankly, disorganized and "all over the place." It will make Judge Rose's job difficult as she parses through each of the remaining counts.

Today is Monday (3/22). The next status conference is May 11th. I'll go out on a limb and predict that Judge Rose's ruling will be issued no earlier than Friday, April 30th.

For now, I intend to check the docket once a week (probably on Fridays) just to see if there has been any activity. I'll post if I seen any activity.
Thanks for everything you’re doing in here.
 
Today is Monday (3/22). The next status conference is May 11th. I'll go out on a limb and predict that Judge Rose's ruling will be issued no earlier than Friday, April 30th.

Good guess. I do not anticipate a brief ruling and that gives the parties ten full days to contemplate the ruling's effect on the schedules.
 
Docket Entry #28 - Friday (3/19) - Defendants' Motion to File Overlength Brief (Reply Brief) - motion is unresisted by Plaintiffs. Local Rule 7(g) allows for Reply briefs to be a maximum of 5 pages unless leave of court is obtained. Such motions are routinely consented to by an opposing party and, if so, the court will grant them nearly as a matter of course. The proposed reply brief is attached as an exhibit to the motion.

Docket Entry #29 - Friday (3/19) - Defendants' Motion to File Overlength Brief is, as would be expected, granted. Defendants' proposed 11 page Reply Brief is accepted by the court and officially filed. Nothing in the docket - at least thus far - suggesting that Judge Rose will entertain oral argument on the motions. That's not to say that argument cannot be scheduled later . . . it is simply not currently scheduled. Common public perception is that motions are always argued in court before a ruling is issued. Not accurate at all. Argument in federal court is far from the norm and Judge Rose may be inclined to simply issue her ruling based upon the submissions provided by the parties. Notably, Defendants' Motion to Dismiss the First Amended Complaint (Docket #16) does not ask the court to entertain argument nor does the Reply Brief (Docket #28). My guess? Judge Rose rules on the written submissions.

I just finished perusing the Reply Brief. Nothing particularly unexpected but one particular sentence stuck out to me and left me scratching my head as to why it would be included in the Reply Brief:

"Peeling off the layers of obfuscating allegations and meritless or time-barred claims—many of which Plaintiffs now make no effort to defend—the essence of what remains is, at best, a weak Title VI hostile environment suit involving only three Plaintiffs."

In my opinion, that sentence represents a tactical mistake. This is awfully damn close to conceding that three plaintiffs - Mends, Simon and Foy - have satisfied their burden of stating a claim under Title VI. I was also a bit surprised at the lack of substance addressing the argument that certain allegations should be governed by a four year statute of limitations as opposed to a two year statute of limitations. While Defendants argue that the 8th Circuit consistently applies a two year statute of limitations, the brief concedes that other circuits have adopted differing approaches. I expected a much more detailed argument than what Defendants' counsel submitted.

The balance of the Reply Brief does an OK job of attacking the Plaintiffs' First Amended Complaint and the arguments raised in Plaintiffs' Response Brief. I found several typos in the submission and it makes me wonder if it was "rushed" to be filed on the 3/19 due date.

What do I expect the ruling to be? Would be pure guess on my part right now. I'd have to sit down and carefully re-read the submissions and try to map out what has been alleged and how it pertains to each defendant. I am confident in stating that I find the First Amended Complaint to be a "mess" and difficult to digest. The allegations are, quite frankly, disorganized and "all over the place." It will make Judge Rose's job difficult as she parses through each of the remaining counts.

Today is Monday (3/22). The next status conference is May 11th. I'll go out on a limb and predict that Judge Rose's ruling will be issued no earlier than Friday, April 30th.

For now, I intend to check the docket once a week (probably on Fridays) just to see if there has been any activity. I'll post if I seen any activity.
For the Good of The Order . . .
It is approximately 3:30 p.m. on Friday, March 26th. No docket activity since my last post.

Unless I hear something otherwise, I intend to check next Friday.
 
For the Good of the Order.

It is just short of 2:00 p.m. CDT. I just checked the electronic docket in this case. No activity since the Defendants filed their Reply Brief in Support of the Motion to Dismiss.
I would not expect anything to be filed by the Court (i.e. a ruling) on the afternoon of Good Friday.

I will check again next Friday.
 
For the Good of the Order.

It is just past noon CDT. Again, I have checked the electronic docket in this case. As before, there continues to be no new activity since the Defendants filed their Reply Brief in Support of the Motion to Dismiss.

Will check again in one week.
 
Ok . . . lunch break in the mediation and I disabled the cat filter (wink wink). I just checked the docket . . . nothing new to report. As reported for the past few weeks, there continues to be no new activity since the Defendants filed their Reply Brief in Support of the Motion to Dismiss.

And, for anyone who may be curious as to whether this is unusual, my answer is "no." A few posts ago, I predicted (although I'll admit that my crystal ball can be awfully cloudy at times) that we wouldn't see a ruling from Judge Rose much before April 30th. The next status hearing is set for May 11th. That status hearing will, without question, address scheduling of discovery and will likely set a trial date. I expect a ruling from Judge Rose before May 11th and I'd like to think that it would be issued in April rather than May (to afford counsel the opportunity to digest the impact of the ruling). I'd be shocked if Judge Rose didn't issue a ruling before May 11th.

That written, it neither shocks nor surprises me that the lawyers are still waiting for a ruling. I'll stand by my prediction. I think that we see something filed by the court late in the day on Friday, April 30th.
 
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Thanks for the update and analysis. So the Judge could issue a ruling and dismiss the case and that would be it? Would be great if this ends but also pretty anti-climatic.
 
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