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Fran Desparetly needs people to transfer

sb33miz

Team MVP
Dec 20, 2016
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I think Fran is genuinely lost in his rotations. He has always played a decent amount of players per game but this season it's just becoming 11-12 man rotations consistently and it doesn't work. How does Moss start, but only play 6 minutes? Moss is 10x the player Brady is. Jbo was sick tonight so I understand that but he's also struggling how to play cook and pemsl while still getting wagner minutes (whose been playing the best out of the 3 lately). Ultimately I think Fran needs to get rid of some people this year, of cut down to a 9-10 player rotation.

Unfortunately for him every recruit who is coming in the coming years (with the expection of Garza) will fall under the mess that is the 2-4 position rotations.
 
Here is my favorite Fran quote of the season (on Illinois):

"When you’ve got three guys who can break you down off the dribble and find guys it is hard to defend. He is particularly good at getting into the lane and finding his guys."

This in stark contrast to Fran's team comprised of 0 guys who can break you down off the dribble and no PG who can get to the lane and find guys. Fran can clearly articulate what other teams have that we don't, but cannot recruit said talent.
 
Here is my favorite Fran quote of the season (on Illinois):

"When you’ve got three guys who can break you down off the dribble and find guys it is hard to defend. He is particularly good at getting into the lane and finding his guys."

This in stark contrast to Fran's team comprised of 0 guys who can break you down off the dribble and no PG who can get to the lane and find guys. Fran can clearly articulate what other teams have that we don't, but cannot recruit said talent.

Yup that quote sums up our struggles on defense and yet we have no one on offense that can do that. So we are essentially screwed on both ends of the floor.

I agree Fran needs to cut the rotation and also hopefully see 2-3 guys leave. If anyone leaves Fran needs to go the "grad transfer" route and get someone in here who can play immediately and help the team.
 
Fran's spin is getting old. Talk about all the pieces we don't have, but fail time and time again on the recruiting trail. Pass up grad transfer / juco opportunities out of some misplaced sense of loyalty to traditional recruits. I guess it makes more sense to recruit projects, invest a couple years and have them leave or realize there is no development curve. Uhl and Ellingson are prime examples. What can these guys do today they couldn't do two years ago? Answer: Nothing.
 
I think Fran is genuinely lost in his rotations. He has always played a decent amount of players per game but this season it's just becoming 11-12 man rotations consistently and it doesn't work. How does Moss start, but only play 6 minutes? Moss is 10x the player Brady is. Jbo was sick tonight so I understand that but he's also struggling how to play cook and pemsl while still getting wagner minutes (whose been playing the best out of the 3 lately). Ultimately I think Fran needs to get rid of some people this year, of cut down to a 9-10 player rotation.

Unfortunately for him every recruit who is coming in the coming years (with the expection of Garza) will fall under the mess that is the 2-4 position rotations.
I don't understand that about moss either. I think he's actually one of our best players. He can create his own shot and I think he's probably our best defender (doesn't take much) yet he doesn't play. Sure he will struggle at times but he's a frosh that has potential. Why waste that time on some of these other guys with little potential is beyond me.
 
Fran's spin is getting old. Talk about all the pieces we don't have, but fail time and time again on the recruiting trail. Pass up grad transfer / juco opportunities out of some misplaced sense of loyalty to traditional recruits. I guess it makes more sense to recruit projects, invest a couple years and have them leave or realize there is no development curve. Uhl and Ellingson are prime examples. What can these guys do today they couldn't do two years ago? Answer: Nothing.

Agreed 10000x!

Don't get me wrong Fran has had some success stories (woody, Olaseni, Gessell, and others). But his recent recruits have not improved at all and makes me wonder if those guys were misses or if its Frans program?

He has to hit the grad transfer market this year. If anyone transfers use that scholly on a grad transfer and "balance" the classes. Having 7 freshman is tough, I realize other schools do it, but they are also recruiting 7 freshman who have immediate impact in the their conference.
 
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Agreed 10000x!

Don't get me wrong Fran has had some success stories (woody, Olaseni, Gessell, and others). But his recent recruits have not improved at all and makes me wonder if those guys were misses or if its Frans program?

He has to hit the grad transfer market this year. If anyone transfers use that scholly on a grad transfer and "balance" the classes. Having 7 freshman is tough, I realize other schools do it, but they are also recruiting 7 freshman who have immediate impact in the their conference.

There's no spin in McCaffery. He is smart enough to see what the roster lacks. Fran has not (for whatever reason) been able to recruit the level of guards/perimeter players to Iowa that he had at Siena. His Siena teams had multiple guys who could break down a defense, get into the lane, do all of the things that we see other teams do. In the current moment (this season), he's doing the right thing. He can't throw his team under the bus, he has to continue to coach and try to get as much out of this team as he can. But the upside of the current roster is limited. And without an infusion of players beyond Garza and Nunge next year, things might be marginally improved. But not dramatically.

To the original poster's remark, yes the roster needs to be improved. It would help that process if there were additional scholarships to use. It's not really a matter of Fran "missing", it's the result of consecutive recruiting classes where Iowa didn't get its top targets. That catches up to you, as it is now.
 
Agree that he needs some to transfer and I think that will naturally happen. I also agree that a look at a transfer would be smart. What I don't agree with is that Fran is a bad recruiter. Look at the last class and the one coming in next year and say he is a bad recruiter is irresponsible.
 
Agree that he needs some to transfer and I think that will naturally happen. I also agree that a look at a transfer would be smart. What I don't agree with is that Fran is a bad recruiter. Look at the last class and the one coming in next year and say he is a bad recruiter is irresponsible.
What's crazy to me is that we can't attract an elite point guard? Fran runs a fun uptempo offense, decent facilities and a young/talented front court. I like Bohannon a lot but think he'd be an even better 2 guard. Hopefully we can get a transfer or Juco guard. Obviously we would need at least two to transfer.

Does Dale Jones come back? I don't see it.
 
Yup that quote sums up our struggles on defense and yet we have no one on offense that can do that. So we are essentially screwed on both ends of the floor.

I agree Fran needs to cut the rotation and also hopefully see 2-3 guys leave. If anyone leaves Fran needs to go the "grad transfer" route and get someone in here who can play immediately and help the team.
So cutting the rotation will help the team win? And you are sounding like Fran has the options to go get a grad transfer. If the team situation encourages a grad transfer to come here...why not recruit what he needs in the first place. Several times in the past I have read on this board the blasting of ISU for bringing in guys they need and not going with the standard recruiting of high schoolers. Sounds like Iowa fans are wanting to lower themselves to that route. It is about winning after all, right.
 
Agree that he needs some to transfer and I think that will naturally happen. I also agree that a look at a transfer would be smart. What I don't agree with is that Fran is a bad recruiter. Look at the last class and the one coming in next year and say he is a bad recruiter is irresponsible.
A transfer at this point simply means he will have fewer options to find a combo that works. 12 guys are seeing the floor because he's trying to give everybody time. There are two guys on the team that play well consistently and one them shouldn't be on the floor because of his back. I'd rather try someone else then keep letting a guy flounder
 
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There's no spin in McCaffery. He is smart enough to see what the roster lacks. Fran has not (for whatever reason) been able to recruit the level of guards/perimeter players to Iowa that he had at Siena. His Siena teams had multiple guys who could break down a defense, get into the lane, do all of the things that we see other teams do. In the current moment (this season), he's doing the right thing. He can't throw his team under the bus, he has to continue to coach and try to get as much out of this team as he can. But the upside of the current roster is limited. And without an infusion of players beyond Garza and Nunge next year, things might be marginally improved. But not dramatically.

To the original poster's remark, yes the roster needs to be improved. It would help that process if there were additional scholarships to use. It's not really a matter of Fran "missing", it's the result of consecutive recruiting classes where Iowa didn't get its top targets. That catches up to you, as it is now.
He has taken Iowa as far in the NCAA as he took Sienna. The reality is, the guys he was getting a Sienna were not power 5 guys and if they were they were not recruited because of grades or other issues. Coach McCaffery has never been able to get over the Round of 32 hump in his coaching career.
 
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So cutting the rotation will help the team win? And you are sounding like Fran has the options to go get a grad transfer. If the team situation encourages a grad transfer to come here...why not recruit what he needs in the first place. Several times in the past I have read on this board the blasting of ISU for bringing in guys they need and not going with the standard recruiting of high schoolers. Sounds like Iowa fans are wanting to lower themselves to that route. It is about winning after all, right.
We know why iowa fans were doing that.
 
Last year Fran rode Jok and Uthoff into the ground with no supporting cast. We lose Uthoff and Fran has nobody capable of creating off the bounce, creating their own shot, or making open shots in year 7 to take some of the load off Jok. Remember this time last season when people were asking if Jok was sick, aggravated his knee, etc.? It's called heavy legs and fatigue from shouldering a disproportionate amount of the offensive load. Jok's stamina has never been great, but Fran is hell bent on riding him into the ground again this season as we saw last night in a blow out loss.

Next to Moss. The guy is our best / only slasher and second best shooter on the team. Two road games to his home state and Fran parks him on the bench for 90% of both games and adds insult to injury by putting him in at scrub time. Moss got called for traveling, then yanked. Jok was a human highlight reel of bad plays, but remains in the game. I would say the odds of Moss returning are 25% based on the past couple weeks of not so subtle messaging from Fran.

Fran is in over his head here. Put him at MN or IL with their talent and he would have a top 20 team competing for a big ten title. Unfortunately he will never assemble that level of talent here.
 
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Agree that he needs some to transfer and I think that will naturally happen. I also agree that a look at a transfer would be smart. What I don't agree with is that Fran is a bad recruiter. Look at the last class and the one coming in next year and say he is a bad recruiter is irresponsible.
I would beg to differ slightly on bad recruiter stance. I think Fran has done a reasonable job on recruiting for the 2-4 positions slots but he has missed on point guards and to some degree the 5 spot (maybe Garza will be that guy). He has yet to recruit a PG that can dribble, drive and dish. Gesell and now Bohannon are more game manager type rolls. Woody did provide some rim protection but had little in the way of offensive skills and Olesani made progress in his time but he got such a late start to playing basketball, he probably would have benefited by a redshirt (but hindsight is always 20/20 right). The overload of the 2 to 4 positions causes many rotation issues when it seems like Fran is just trying to find the hot hand many nights. Baer is really the only one who is consistent this season. I also wonder what the deal is between Moss and Fran because he appears to be good enough to start, but then sits on the bench for long stretches and rarely is in the game during the last 5 minutes. Moss is the only current player (White and Marble were previous guys in Fran's tenure) that fits the mold of what Fran says he wants in a guy to run the floor and attack the basket. Jok is clearly the best shooter that Fran has had, but honestly Jok is not much of a dribble drive option. Bottom line, Iowa is what it is this year and for the next couple of years given the current roster and incoming recruits with lots in the 2 to 4 slots. Looking at several seasons of .500 or maybe something like 19-11 coming with these players combined with Fran's coaching or lack of coaching in some cases
 
Last year Fran rode Jok and Uthoff into the ground with no supporting cast. We lose Uthoff and Fran has nobody capable of creating off the bounce, creating their own shot, or making open shots in year 7 to take some of the load off Jok. Remember this time last season when people were asking if Jok was sick, aggravated his knee, etc.? It's called heavy legs and fatigue from shouldering a disproportionate amount of the offensive load. Jok's stamina has never been great, but Fran is hell bent on riding him into the ground again this season as we saw last night in a blow out loss.

Next to Moss. The guy is our best / only slasher and second best shooter on the team. Two road games to his home state and Fran parks him on the bench for 90% of both games and adds insult to injury by putting him in at scrub time. Moss got called for traveling, then yanked. Jok was a human highlight reel of bad plays, but remains in the game. I would say the odds of Moss returning are 25% based on the past couple weeks of not so subtle messaging from Fran.

Fran is in over his head here. Put him at MN or IL with their talent and he would have a top 20 team competing for a big ten title. Unfortunately he will never assemble that level of talent here.
This is spot on regarding the riding of Jok & Uthoff and the treatment of Moss. Unfortunately the kid wasted his RS and that really limits his options going forward.
 
What's crazy to me is that we can't attract an elite point guard? Fran runs a fun uptempo offense, decent facilities and a young/talented front court. I like Bohannon a lot but think he'd be an even better 2 guard. Hopefully we can get a transfer or Juco guard. Obviously we would need at least two to transfer.

Does Dale Jones come back? I don't see it.
Why would he? He doesn't get any opportunity to play. Watching Cook try to dribble and continue to turn the ball over 4 times.
Pemsyl who can't defend my grandmother 1 on 1. You would think there's some opportunity for some
minutes. If I were him, I would leave and thank the UOI hospital for repairing my knee.
 
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This is spot on regarding the riding of Jok & Uthoff and the treatment of Moss. Unfortunately the kid wasted his RS and that really limits his options going forward.
Baer and Moss play the same position and Baer is playing better, he deserves the minutes. Should Fran bench Jok? Unfortunately, Ihawk is trolling this morning, and some of you eat up his idiotic statements. If a college player can't play 30 minutes a game without getting tired, then good luck in the NBA. Jesus, running Jok into the ground? Monte is playing 39 minutes a game for ISU, that's what good players/leaders do.
 
On paper, I like the "look" of what this team could become in the future.

  • Yes, we are a young team
  • Jok is a great player. I'm not convinced he makes others better players (and I think that hurts us)
  • The rotation gets dizzying at times and I wonder if players have a hard time getting into a groove
  • These slow starts are killing us because we're spending the entire first half just playing catch up
  • It's year #7 of the Fran regime. At Iowa, he's 118-86 (57%) and 54-54 in the Big 10. In the words of Bill Parcels: "You are what you record says you are."
 
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I think Fran is genuinely lost in his rotations. He has always played a decent amount of players per game but this season it's just becoming 11-12 man rotations consistently and it doesn't work. How does Moss start, but only play 6 minutes? Moss is 10x the player Brady is. Jbo was sick tonight so I understand that but he's also struggling how to play cook and pemsl while still getting wagner minutes (whose been playing the best out of the 3 lately). Ultimately I think Fran needs to get rid of some people this year, of cut down to a 9-10 player rotation.

Unfortunately for him every recruit who is coming in the coming years (with the expection of Garza) will fall under the mess that is the 2-4 position rotations.
its not about fran losing his rotation its about guys playing so bad he has to try something different.
 
I go back to my belief that Fran is in over his head. He consistently whiffs on choices 1-3 and ends up throwing scholarships to kids who look the part, but can't play the part. He has managed to not recruit a better than serviceable PG in 7 years and has no help coming next year. This from a guy who incessantly talks about wanting to play fast.

Someone explain to me how you play fast with a roster more suited to Todd Lickliter's style of play than up tempo? Flip the channels this weekend and find me one team in any league (Horizon, Valley, C-USA, etc.) that doesn't have a PG who would be an upgrade here. We could possibly survive a pedestrian PG if we had guys capable of creating their own shots, but the double barrel deficiency is all on Fran's recruiting.
 
Some part of me thinks Moss will be gone after this year. Other than Jok he is our most skilled and talented player. Him playing 6 minutes last night and not playing hardly at all in the second half of games the entire season is a JOKE. Moss is the piece to build around in the future of this program and fran is completely wasting him.

I would hate to see this guy leave but if you were him, why stay?
 
Alot of people are badmouthing the players. These are the same guys that beat purdue a couple of weeks ago. I think these guys are capable of great things. The thing that alludes Fran is getting his guys to play hard with effort and intensity game after game. That is a problem.
 
This thread has hit on the key problems that Iowa BB has this year. With Jok you can stay in every game. He is double to tripled team so other Iowa players get open looks for easier shots. When he is out Iowa is exposed as a one trick pony. The primary scoring option falls to Baer who is not near the threat that Jok is. Cook is clearly affected by his broken finger given that when he goes to the rim he can't control the ball with his left hand. He is a shadow of his former self. Pemsl is a back you down 4 with slick in the paint moves. He can be negated by a quick double team or pushed off his spot. He is maybe the worst defender of the pick and roll in Iowa history. He is playing guys 2 to 5 inches bigger every night so not totally to blame for bad defense. Bohannon is a great shooting try hard slow 2 guard trying to play point. Moss is trying to play the 3 when he is clearly a break you down sharpshooting 2 guard. Consequently he looks lost in Iowa's offensive sets. Kreiner has BB intelligence and just needs to be bigger and stronger, but plays smart and hard with purpose like Baer. Williams is nottttt a point guard and one feels sorry for him having to expose himself as incapable of dribbling let alone shooting. Ellingson is toooo slow, but can shoot if open which is seldom. Dom's most distinguishing BB characteristic is his Man Bun. Wagner is a try hard beast of a player who simply needs shot development to add to his rim dives and rebounding. McCaffery is putting a team on the floor with the fundamental handicap of playing without a 1 and a 5. How can this be. Even OmahaNebraska had two point guards that Iowa would kill for. I'm a big fan of McCaffery but it's getting hard to understand how he has let himself get in this position after 7 years as head coach. Oh and Fran please stop with the disingenuous comments about Jok is fine you should ask him about his back. There isn't one person in Hawkdom who didn't see a guy who better belonged in a wheelchair than a BB game.
 
I think it's the rotations more than anything. Nobody is comfortable on the floor. There's many times offensively and defensively where it looks like these guys just met each other this morning and decided to play a pick up game. These guys look very confused on the floor and there's seldom cohesion.
 
Yep, things aren't perfect. But why so much whining? Fran will guide this young team in the right direction. Just gonna take a little time.

How easily we forget, things could be much worse ...

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Moss is 10x the player Brady is.

Are you sure about that?

Win shares per 40
Ellingson: 0.123
Moss: 0.063

PER
Ellingson: 13.4
Moss: 11.5

True Shooting Percentage
Ellingson: .703
Moss: .555

Box Score +/-
Ellingson: 1.9
Moss: -0.9
 
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Baer and Moss play the same position and Baer is playing better, he deserves the minutes. Should Fran bench Jok? Unfortunately, Ihawk is trolling this morning, and some of you eat up his idiotic statements. If a college player can't play 30 minutes a game without getting tired, then good luck in the NBA. Jesus, running Jok into the ground? Monte is playing 39 minutes a game for ISU, that's what good players/leaders do.
Monte appeared to have tired legs in the game Tuesday night, but no wonder he played 49 of the 50 minutes in the two overtime win at Oklahoma then had a short turnaround. I don't think any of the Iowa players are in any condition to even play that many minutes. They seem to be winded IF they reach the first five minute media time out. Maybe conditioning or lack there of is a problem for the young Hawkeyes.
 
On paper, I like the "look" of what this team could become in the future.

  • Yes, we are a young team
  • Jok is a great player. I'm not convinced he makes others better players (and I think that hurts us)
  • The rotation gets dizzying at times and I wonder if players have a hard time getting into a groove
  • These slow starts are killing us because we're spending the entire first half just playing catch up
  • It's year #7 of the Fran regime. At Iowa, he's 118-86 (57%) and 54-54 in the Big 10. In the words of Bill Parcels: "You are what you record says you are."
Hit the nail on the head there Rusty. Jok is a great shooter/scorer, but he does not make the players around him better. This is especially true on defense, where Pete often leaves his teamates in the lurch.
I'm also confused with Moss's role on the team. He shows flashes of solid play, then we may not see him at all in the second half.
 
Too much talent is the problem? Did the staff reject a better point guard than Bohannon? Are they disregarding point guard as a recruiting need?

Transfers historically bring problems associated with an inability to get along with others, like the coaches. Think back through the history of transfers at Iowa. Not a lot of stellar recruits. You get the David Palmers and Luke Reckers (good player/team cancer) of the world more often than you get a real contributor.

It is going to take time for Bohannon to develop. The kind of break down point guard many are describing as a need hasn't been seen on the Iowa campus since Dean Oliver. Iowa historically wins by getting good players that develop over 3 and 4 year careers. The Hawks rarely get the instant star at any position. Those break down point guards are rare and more rare in freshmen. Most teams do not have a super quick complete point guard that can break down the defense at will, and almost no one has a freshman that can do it.

For example, Cook was a huge recruit. In everyone's top 75. Although he's probably going to be outstanding Cook has real holes in his game that need improvement and development. These guys are all very young, its pretty obvious that the boys do not have much on the floor leadership (if Jok is doing it he is very quiet). The sole junior Uhl displays almost no interaction with his teammates. These are young guys learning from each other and learning in trial by actual combat. This will just take time.
 
Are you sure about that?

Win shares per 40
Ellingson: 0.123
Moss: 0.063

PER
Ellingson: 13.4
Moss: 11.5

True Shooting Percentage
Ellingson: .703
Moss: .555

Box Score +/-
Ellingson: 1.9
Moss: -0.9
You're telling me you'd rather have Brady Ellingnson on the floor over Moss?? are you smoking dope?
 
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Wasn't Reggie Evans a transfer? And Adam Haluska? Not point guards, but I would welcome their talents. And if you are expecting Fran to develop players, I think you should reconsider that thought. Fran and his staff have over 100 years of coaching experience and much of it as head coaches, but I am not seeing that translate in to player development or in game success. I'm not saying Fran and his staff are bad people, I just don't think they have taken Iowa far enough. They have all of their own recruits and the new practice facility. Granted, the cupboard was pretty bare from the Lick years, but I don't we are any better than when Steve Alfraud left and definitely back to the level of Dr Tom.
As for team leadership, Baer is the only one I see outwardly attempt this on a regular basis and I have been at every home game. Jok shows nothing during games in terms of leadership IMO.
 
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The biggest problem with this team is that it has too many freshman.

To compete at Iowa, you are going to have to have seniors and juniors as the core of the rotation, with underclassman spotting them while they grow in strength, experience and maturity. Fran has 3 nearly empty classes (Sr, Jr, Soph). Imagine if Baer didn't walk on at Iowa?

So, fast forward two years. Will Pemsl and Cook be able to make a 15 ft jumper? Will either one of them be able to protect the rim? Will Bo or Moss be able to break down defenses? Will any one them be able to protect the ball?

Concerned that in Year 7, Fran has a team that looks like this one. Could another coach do better? IDK.
 
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I would venture that 90% of Ellingson statistics that go in to these numbers are from the preseason game in which he had 20+ points and maybe the Purdue game. Other than that, he is mostly zero production


Keep venturing...

Conference play advanced stats:

WS/40
Ellingson: .051
Moss: -.024

PER
Ellingson: 9.7
Moss: 5.6

True Shooting Percentage
Ellingson: .481
Moss: .490

Turnover %
Ellingson: 8
Moss: 18.2

Rebound %
Ellingson: 4.2
Moss: 3.8

Steal %
Ellingson: 1.1
Moss: 0.4

Block %
Ellingson: 0
Moss: 0.7

Assist %
Ellingson: 15.1
Moss: 2.6

Neither player is good. Ellingson has just been less of a liability.
 
You're telling me you'd rather have Brady Ellingnson on the floor over Moss?? are you smoking dope?

Perhaps when Moss doesn't become a turnover laden liability with no real value add, then I'll support him. I'll trust the objective advanced metrics over your subjective eye test.
 
So cutting the rotation will help the team win? And you are sounding like Fran has the options to go get a grad transfer. If the team situation encourages a grad transfer to come here...why not recruit what he needs in the first place. Several times in the past I have read on this board the blasting of ISU for bringing in guys they need and not going with the standard recruiting of high schoolers. Sounds like Iowa fans are wanting to lower themselves to that route. It is about winning after all, right.

Well if Fran would of been able to land a "legit" PG the past 3 years we would not be having this discussion. Grad transfers are fine, I guess I do not see the problem with it. I mean if the NCAA is going to allow you to do it, why not do it. Its not cheating, its playing the "free agency" market in college sports.

What I had a problem with was taking players who were "kicked off" their previous teams. If a player is kicked off for disciplinary action, then they should not be allowed to transfer in level (i.e Div 1 can't transfer to Div 1. Have to drop to Div 2).
 
Why do you have a problem with doing something entirely within NCAA rules? Winning is way better than losing as long as you don't cheat to do it.
 
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