Oh ok, so it’s not actually about “athletes” on the floor then, like you keep arguing
Fran has more than proven he can`t get it done here.
- Thread starter Carolina Hawk
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Oh ok, so it’s not actually about “athletes” on the floor then, like you keep arguing
No clue what your point is. Fran not recruiting more / all in state kids in 2015 is why we have guard issues in 2019? You also told me last year that Connor had offense when I questioned how he was going to score at this level so I am thinking you and Fran have a lot in common when it comes to evaluating players.
To be clear I am not trying to be a jerk in this discussion. I am legitimately curious how you can link Fran's awful recruiting to out of state kids and insinuate that those kids were the issue not Fran's recruiting.
If Connor's offense is right where you expected then we differ greatly on expectations for a top whatever recruit he was especially given the needs of this team.
That’s a you problem. I don’t know anyone who expected more out of Connor than 15-18 mpg in a backup role this year. I just thought he would shoot closer to 30% from 3pt.
I see you keep avoiding answering my questioning about blaming out of state kids not Fran for the 2015 class so I will take that as a you problem. I expect a top 100 recruit to not have a flat shot and merit some defensive respect outside of the lane. Given what we all knew about Moss not being reliable and Fran being an offense first coach it is puzzling why Fran would A: red shirt Frederick despite his early injury or B: Not bring in a juco or grad transfer at 1 or 2. Different season same issues with Fran's teams.
He banked a scholarship if you recall. Lack of available players? It's not like we need to Tyler Ulis to be an upgrade. Given we have had the same staff in place for 9 years one would think they would have some relationships in place. Just wait until the tournament when all the "this kid didn't have any major offers" until so and so called and offered them late. Iowa is never in that conversation because Fran is too delusional. This is like saying there aren't running backs in college football.
Lol, you clearly don’t actually pay attention so I don’t feel like arguing any more.
My point remains that Fran has recently used the strategies (athleticism over skills, jucos, and late signees) you are recommending with disasterous results.
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If you think Conner belongs in a P5 program, that is all we need to know about you.
-------Why does Iowa's team need Iowans on it? If there are some good players out of Iowa such as the ones I listed and others like Joe Weiscamp, fine, let's sign them. There's no requirement that Iowa basketball has to be stocked with locals as far as I know. Hence, my point about Iowa State.
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Early nomination for post of the week
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Early nomination for post of the week
Apparently I’m crazy as well after coaching 13 years. I value back up point guards who can handle to ball against pressure, get the team into their offense and feed the post. Sure, his outside jumped could improve but I am willing to bet he will improve as well being that he shot 42% from 3 his senior year. He seems like a guy who is much more concerned about getting his teammates involved and having their back right now. I’ll take a player like that any day and like the prospects of his outside shot improving as he looks for it more as well.
Because Fran is clueless. That is my point and the point you refuse to accept. Is there some black cloud over Iowa that prevents Fran from being successful like I don't know everyone else? Fran has no strategy, his staff has not built any relationships and so every year it's like starting over for these guys.
Given the challenges states like Iowa present (low numbers of D-1 athletes) you have to get out and beat the bushes for kids. No follow up on getting Cole out of KC? No follow up to getting Olaseni out of Sunrise Christian? Speraw visited my nephew's high school in Overland Park to look at a really athletic guard (also a good student) who signed with Tulsa (no Iowa offer). Add to this the scads of kids that go into the portal that Fran wont' look and it's pretty hard to make a case that Fran is putting all options on the table.
As averse to Juco's as KF has been look at the impact Sargent and Easley had on the football team. Fran better figure it out because with the exception of PSU and Nebraska every other team looks to be loaded with highly ranked recruits coming in.
I am not looking to argue about anything. We simply disagree on Fran's recruiting acumen.
There is no requirement to have Iowans as evidenced by 2014 and 2015 when we signed zero Iowans. But why would we want good in-state kids to go elsewhere when they can contribute here?
LOL ok man. I can’t help you if you are going to go full chicken little over everything. There are multiple examples to the contrary of nearly everything you are complaining about.
In over 50 years, starting with Ralph Miller, the Hawks are 470-458 in B1G play for a 51.8% winning rate. Fran is 78-82, 48.8%. Iowa has finished 1st or 2nd (including ties) only 7 times. Three B1G championships, the last being 40 years ago. Sprinkle in 6 Sweet 16's or better.
That's Iowa basketball.
I have no problem getting another coach - might as well give someone else a try. But I seriously doubt the results will be much different, with equal chance of getting better or getting worse.
That's Iowa basketball.
I have no problem getting another coach - might as well give someone else a try. But I seriously doubt the results will be much different, with equal chance of getting better or getting worse.
You have to understand L. Wade supports the coaches 100%, and will jump in and criticize anyone who says anything negative about them.
Please share some of these examples. Was it the lessons learned from last
Where did I say we want good in state kids to go elsewhere? The issue isn't in or out of state kids it's the talent level. The issue is that the state of Iowa doesn't have many P5 level athletes. Every so often there is a Wieskamp, Barnes, Hinrich, Collison, etc., but not enough to build a B1G program with. Cook was not the best player on his high school team but would have dominated Iowa high school basketball.
Where did I say we want good in state kids to go elsewhere? The issue isn't in or out of state kids it's the talent level. The issue is that the state of Iowa doesn't have many P5 level athletes. Every so often there is a Wieskamp, Barnes, Hinrich, Collison, etc., but not enough to build a B1G program with. Cook was not the best player on his high school team but would have dominated Iowa high school basketball.
So you are saying that because I appreciate what McC has done at Iowa, that I am part of the problem? You have a problem.
"Oh, oh it's fans like you........"
"We need to raise the bar........."
doingitright?
This is absolutely ridiculous and false. I have been on record for over a year saying that I want Fran fired if we miss the tournament this year.
He probably means the best players in Iowa that are not 5 Stars who intend to go to blue bloods. None of those players went to Iowa St either.
Fran would be a great coach in the PAC 12. His offense would be more consistent in free flowing basketball games.
He's dug himself into a hole that he can't get out of. It was a stupid hill to die on.
Our staff doesn't do a good job of much of anything, but ESPECIALLY recruiting. For the most part they ignore the transfers which are a huge part of college basketball now, especially the grad transfers.
The only point I'm making with Iowa State is this:
1) They are located in Iowa. Very similar to the University of Iowa if I'm correct with my geography.
2) They don't waste time on Iowa high school kids that can't help them. This is not to say they are able to sign all of the great Iowa HS talent of course.
3) They somehow recruit excellent players and almost always get a difference-maker through transfers.
If anybody disagrees with these points, I'd love to know how?
I have said this for a couple of years now. We need to move on as he isnt going to take us anywhere other than semi-respectability. He brought us back from the graveyard but we have seen what Fran's ceiling is. 9 years at a big 10 school with decent facilities and a fan base is long enough to know what kind of coach you have.
One interesting thing I've seen is the level of "investment" (or perhaps commitment) that Iowa makes towards Basketball is lower than other B1G schools. I want to say it is around 10th or 11th in the conference. I'm not sure how that is compiled or if the schools with newer arenas / facilities of late will automatically rank higher...
Fran is probably not the guy for much longer and I think we're all realizing it. Can't really fire a coach that's putting us in the tourney, but at the same time you're totally right that he's not going to suddenly make a charge to the top of the conference anytime soon.
I think Barta's got to go first... then after that, a new AD could really inject some life into this program by hiring a new coach and announcing plans for a new basketball arena. Ideally around 11,000 or so, strictly for basketball, seats "on top" of the court (like Kinnick), and loud as hell.
I like everything that you say but believe there is about a 7% chance of these things happening with our athletic department.
Really? You keep saying that, but just about every time someone criticizes Fran (or Kirk), you jump in to defend the coaches.
I haven’t read every one of your posts over the past year, but on a random perusing you have have called people idiots, retarded and dumb. You wanted God to “demote” one poster. You told another poster to kill himself. What a nice guy you are. So smug and arrogant, too!
Congratulations, I have elevated you to an exclusive status among posters: my ignore list. It is now just you and one other person.
Bye!
You realize that I only say that to obvious ISU or other trolls that haven’t got banned yet, right?
Furthermore, questioning the logic or providing facts to a poster is not the same as defending the coaches. I don’t think that acting rational is some big ask of people.
When you blame a recruiting class on out of state kids and not the coaches (who get paid to evaluate talent) you are clearly defending the coaches. I think being intellectually honest isn't that big of an ask either. What is your expectation for Iowa hoops? To have an entire roster of Iowa kids and not finish last in the conference? It has to be something pretty close to that as you seem to embrace the "We are Iowa and we can't do better" mentality that permeates this board.
Job # 1 for Fran was to make Iowa appealing to the types of players he needs to play fast. He has yet to do that in 9 years. If I am a 1-4 and want to play fast and shoot 3's what is appealing about Iowa? It's like being a WR on the football team.
Job # 1 for Fran was to make Iowa appealing to the types of players he needs to play fast. He has yet to do that in 9 years. If I am a 1-4 and want to play fast and shoot 3's what is appealing about Iowa? It's like being a WR on the football team.
I’m not disagreeing I’m just pointing out The connection between Iowa St and the players you use didn’t really make sense from my perspective. I agree with some of what you are saying. If Iowa intends to be a real player at the National level, reaching on players just because they are from Iowa is not the way to do it. There has been mixed results in that strategy over the years but it’s safe to say all of iowa’s Coaches have done that, even back to Dr. Tom.
However, I think where Fran has really been hurt is reaching too much on out-of-state recruiting. He has been able to get some pretty good out of state talents like Cook, Garza, White, Basabe, Olaseni, hopefully Ninge and Toussaint but way too many misses with Ellingson, Dailey, Moss, Wagner, Williams, Dickerson, Uhl, and on an on.
It seems his in-state guys actually pan out into at least decent rotational guys but Fran has a much less hit rate out-of-state.
I agree his non-use of transfers, especially grad transfers that could help out in needed areas is inexecusable and curious. It doesn’t have to be used like Iowa St uses it but should not be ignored.
Iowa has beat the more “talented” Iowa St teams 2 if the last 3 years with this core group, so maybe having a core group that plays together sometimes overcomes more talented players. But I get your point.
Good post. My college coaching record is unblemished at 0-0 but to build upon your comments I think Fran has missed consistently on guys with the same holes in their games. At this level if you can't create your own shot you better damn sure have some guys who create on the floor with you. You can't have a whole team of guys who can't create and no creators.
As far as bigs go, Fran has to get a shot blocker who can run like Olaseni or a tough SOB who will work defensively and on the glass (Evans, Tate, Settles). A team of bigs who want to shoot 3's and give up 40 pounds in the post isn't going to work at this level. Garza has a good frame but plays below the rim and isn't suited for playing fast. The pieces do not match the style (again).
As far as bigs go, Fran has to get a shot blocker who can run like Olaseni or a tough SOB who will work defensively and on the glass (Evans, Tate, Settles). A team of bigs who want to shoot 3's and give up 40 pounds in the post isn't going to work at this level. Garza has a good frame but plays below the rim and isn't suited for playing fast. The pieces do not match the style (again).
Well Conner does none of that. Get's our team into an offense??? Really? Average ball handler at best and always has turnovers from bad passes. You must be watching a different game. I value backup point guards as well. We don't have any. Not to mention he is no where near quick enough to guard a point guard.
Sometimes it blows my mind what people see. Connor ranks towards the top of the conference In both assist rate and assist to turnover ratio. It is pretty much exactly what you need out of a freshman back up point guard.
