LOVE, the **** faked elbowed him within an inch of head and Cmac didn't flinch. **** the Cryin Illini
Freedom of Movement
- Thread starter Fran-Con-2
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I find this comment funny since most screens by every team are considered illegal by rule.
Here's the final play. It looks like there are 2 fouls:
* CJ is shoved in the back and
* Cockburn bumps/hits Garza (especially lower body) on the shot attempt
Watch:
Connor would have put that dude in a body bag. Lucky for him that elbow didn't connect.
Watch that play and look only at Garza/Cockburn. Kofi has TWO arms around Garza the entire play. He's bear hugging him. When Garza comes down with the ball, Kofi shoves his body into him. We got called for a cylinder violation in crunch-time, but if that's not a cylinder violation then nothing is.
Watching CJ before the inbound.... being held the entire time he's trying to cut and run off screens.
Even by football rules...that's pass interference. So can't even say they are play by football rules anymore
At some point I'd like our coaching staff to accept the reality of the big ten and adjust accordingly. It's almost amazing how successful Fran has been playing a style of defense that doesn't clutch and grab while at the same time leaving shooters wide open. Give Underwood credit, if they refs aren't going to call it then why wouldn't you coach your players to play that way.
Ironic you mention this. Tim Brando was on the Score (Chicago sports radio) this morning and the local guys asked what he thought of Illinois making noise in the tourney. Tim's response was the exact opposite of yours - Illinois needs to adjust and figure out how to play defense without fouling or they will be an early out.
How about how many times the referees had to step in before an in-bounds to separate Illinois players from Iowa players - I might be wrong, but I only recall this happened when Iowa was in bounding the ball? It happened at least 3-4 times. The refs just should have said, "wait until we blow the ready for play whistle and then you can grab him all you want. I just can't let it happen while the ball is dead."
If you want to be truly objective, watch Garza clear out with his left forearm to create space before there's any perceived contact on the shot.
i encourage everyone to first find CJ and watch what happens there; he appears to be shoved and held; nothing called.
Then rewind and watch what happens to Garza. Cockburn's lower body hits Garza's before Garza gets the shot blocked.
2 fouls. Nothing called. And that's just the last 2 seconds of the game, for crying out loud.
Crazy
I wouldn't use Tim Brando for any argument, but you do you.
He's one of the worst announcers out there.
exactly this....and it has been that way for a few years now. Come tourney time... positional defense is more important than having a physical defense. Marry that with a offense and you can see good things happen in March. see that final 4 team from Wiscy a few years back. Great defense and great offense.
Those teams defenses weren't great, closer to Iowa's defense than UW's this year, for instance. But the offense was other worldly.
Yes, and the new thing is the Cylinder rule, which Iowa has been called for three times in the last four games. Stupidest rule ever. They stand there and let the post players beat each other to death. Garza has been bloodied multiple times with NO foul call, and then they had the balls to call a foul because your in the guys cylinder! Not that you actually even touched him, but your in his space and forced him to hit you. Absolutely Ridiculous, and the guy who thought that up should be flogged......
How do you adjust accordingly if the guy has his arms wrapped around you?
Create your own space, which Fredrick did, and got called for it.
I said this same thing last week in a whining thread about the contact being taught rather than skill & shooting
like the games in earlier yrs. There is a thread on the 6 pack. There was a team of athletes that knew how tomove & shoot instead of dropping the shoulder & running over a person.
I’ll just leave this “hasn’t been a thing for years” right here.
RULE 10
Fouls and Penalties Section 1. Personal Fouls
Art.1. Aplayershallnothold,displace,push,charge,triporimpedetheprogress of an opponent by extending arm(s), shoulder(s), hip(s) or knee(s) or by bending his own body into other than a normal position or by using any unreasonably rough tactics�
Art.2. Aplayershallnotcontactanopponentwithhishandunlesssuchcontactis only with the opponent’s hand while it is on the ball and is incidental to an attempt to play the ball�
Art. 3. A player shall not use his hand(s) on an opponent to inhibit the freedom of movement of the opponent in any way�
Art.4. Thefollowingactsconstituteafoulwhencommittedagainstaplayerwith the ball:
a� Keepingahandorforearmonanopponent;
b� Putting two hands on an opponent;
c� Continually jabbing an opponent by extending an arm(s) and placing a
hand or forearm on the opponent, and
d� Using an arm bar to impede the progress of a dribbler�
http://www.sportswriters.net/usbwa/cpr/19publications/19ncaa_rules.pdf
RULE 10
Fouls and Penalties Section 1. Personal Fouls
Art.1. Aplayershallnothold,displace,push,charge,triporimpedetheprogress of an opponent by extending arm(s), shoulder(s), hip(s) or knee(s) or by bending his own body into other than a normal position or by using any unreasonably rough tactics�
Art.2. Aplayershallnotcontactanopponentwithhishandunlesssuchcontactis only with the opponent’s hand while it is on the ball and is incidental to an attempt to play the ball�
Art. 3. A player shall not use his hand(s) on an opponent to inhibit the freedom of movement of the opponent in any way�
Art.4. Thefollowingactsconstituteafoulwhencommittedagainstaplayerwith the ball:
a� Keepingahandorforearmonanopponent;
b� Putting two hands on an opponent;
c� Continually jabbing an opponent by extending an arm(s) and placing a
hand or forearm on the opponent, and
d� Using an arm bar to impede the progress of a dribbler�
http://www.sportswriters.net/usbwa/cpr/19publications/19ncaa_rules.pdf
Point was that their defensive style wasnt to mob the ball handler... it was good position, disruptive hands and be opportunistic. Not what the likes of MSU and Illinois did yesterday.
I don't believe this is proper protocol when greeting someone for containing the spread of the global killer we are currently dealing with.
Wisconsin doesn't play defense at all, they only play grab the nut sack....they to stupid to really know how to play bball!
Fran needs to get better at coaching our guys to do the same. MSU and Penn State played similarly this year... essentially, if you hand check all game and do this all game.. what are the Refs going to do, foul out your whole team?
Freedom of movement fouls are usually called on away teams a LOT more than home teams in the B1G. Teams know that Iowa's offense is almost unstoppable if they allow CJF and Weesy freedom of movement, and already have to deal with Luka. They have learned to assign their best perimeter defenders, who are told to not allow them to touch the ball, and keep them from freely making cuts off of picks or through the lane. Some teams take advantage better than others. MSU has the master of not allowing freedom of movement, but Wisky, PSU, Rutgers and now Illannoy, have used it very effectively.
Last night's technicals were the result of not calling this crap. Amazingly, CJ gets called for a foul slapping his defenders hand away and is given a T for taking exception verbally to getting his space violated even after the call. Connor also just didn't back down, and is honestly lucky he didn't catch an elbow to the chops. End result, CJ picks up 2 immediate fouls for nothing, and Illannoy gets the ball. One possession ended up being the difference in the game, but this was just the tip of the iceberg. Luka was in a wrestling match to get position all night, with very few fouls called.
Last night's technicals were the result of not calling this crap. Amazingly, CJ gets called for a foul slapping his defenders hand away and is given a T for taking exception verbally to getting his space violated even after the call. Connor also just didn't back down, and is honestly lucky he didn't catch an elbow to the chops. End result, CJ picks up 2 immediate fouls for nothing, and Illannoy gets the ball. One possession ended up being the difference in the game, but this was just the tip of the iceberg. Luka was in a wrestling match to get position all night, with very few fouls called.
A
anon_i8nzeu2gbf0ba
Guest
If you don't think Fredrick and Weiskamp are fouled on every possession, you're not watching off the ball. They are literally manhandled EVERY damn time down the floor. You go out there and get mugged like that for 40 minutes and laugh it off. You people wouldn't be able to handle it for five minutes. Fredrick wasn't exaggerating. He was just being honest. I'm sick and tired of Big Ten basketbrawl.
The Iowa wrestling team doesn't have any more contact with their opponents than the Iowa basketball team does. Explain that.
And to know that's true, all you need are eyes.
All this talk of getting into the weight room and being more physical is BS in basketball. Period. That's NOT how the game was designed and it's not how it should be played.
And how about the Illinois guard who uses a stiff arm at least a dozen times a game and gets away with it every single time? It is an egregious foul every time, but it was not called ONCE yesterday despite Iowa players being knocked back four or five feet, plenty of space to get off his shot. But let Iowa guys try that, and they'll be called every time.
It's bogus, and there is no other objective way to describe it.
The Iowa wrestling team doesn't have any more contact with their opponents than the Iowa basketball team does. Explain that.
And to know that's true, all you need are eyes.
All this talk of getting into the weight room and being more physical is BS in basketball. Period. That's NOT how the game was designed and it's not how it should be played.
And how about the Illinois guard who uses a stiff arm at least a dozen times a game and gets away with it every single time? It is an egregious foul every time, but it was not called ONCE yesterday despite Iowa players being knocked back four or five feet, plenty of space to get off his shot. But let Iowa guys try that, and they'll be called every time.
It's bogus, and there is no other objective way to describe it.
Yet he is still far more credible on anything related to college basketball than you. Not to mention, he's right. This been an issue in the tournament for Underwood at previous stops as well.
The funny thing is that Illinois is actually grabbing WAY less this year. They didn’t think they were doing anything wrong last year either.
And most teams play "physical" basketball in the big ten. If you don't think you run more screens and by consequence more moving screens in totality I don't know what to tell you. At least I'm trying to have a somewhat honest conversation. I saw more moving screens against Iowa than any other team in the big ten. It wasn't that close.
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