It never fails. Ciggy and other libs look at our enemies (ISIS) and see good intentions. They then look at the Republicans and see evil. A little mixed up there Ciggy
Great Islamic Migration
- Thread starter Bulldogs1974
- Start date
If you want to get a visual picture of what life was like in Syria before recent events, try watching the BBC series "Syrian School" that you can watch online now. It is amazing to see how "human" all of these kids and other characters are in this series, and hard to imagine the problems they've had now. It does mention troubles, but nothing like it is now there.
Syrian School: Episode 1
What I said wasn't insane dipshit..do you deny that the muslims refugees from Somalia have been a problem? Homogenous societies are more harmonious.
I guess perhaps native North Americans here might have some sympathy for your viewpoint here with what Europeans did here in North America!
But perhaps the Europeans were a lot more organized in the approach to take this place over then than other immigrants are here when they are escaping repression in other places today.
you make my point for me a bit though...I guess perhaps native North Americans here might have some sympathy for your viewpoint here with what Europeans did here in North America!
Islam is fundamentally incompatible with modern western civilization. And don't expect an Islamic reformation any time soon - this religion is going the other direction.
I think we should distinguish between those that are coming here because elsewhere they are having a difficult time surviving where they used to be, versus those that are actively trying to take over our country or destabilize it. A vast majority of people coming here, whether they are people like Syrian refugees or other foreign nationals in similar situations are in the former category. Just because they are Muslims mean they are hear to do what other terrorists have done in the past.
There are some here who perhaps would rather be back in other countries with their families but feel forced to do so to get a job. Many South American undocumented workers come here because they've been forced to do so when:
1) the family farms they had and produce they sold could no longer compete with American taxpayer subsidized exports our ag businesses make with corn products that they might be otherwise able to compete with if we taxpayers didn't pay the difference in prices on products sold there that ag businesses profit from but we as taxpayers don't.
2) the jobs they had to moved to within outsourcing factories down there that our multinational companies ran down there to use cheap labor over American workers here would disappear when those companies packed their bags and moved to someplace like another Asian country where they could have a better "bottom" country to race to for cheap labor there.
3) without a farm or without a outsourcing company job any more there to get money to feed their families, they move up here, and help provide illegal employers with cheap labor so that they don't have to pay more for Americans to do the same work here.
There's another interesting equation that has people from countries like india come here and be exploited by the 1% too through H-1B jobs, etc. as well, or H-2B jobs so that slave labor could be used to rebuild areas after the Katrina disaster, instead of hiring Americans down there to do the same thing that needed work to help them rebuild their lives then too.
And we are all conditioned to hate those that move here to get work here, even when many of them that are doing so are just trying to survive like we are. And many of them would want to move here and become citizens, if our naturalization process wasn't so screwed up to discourage many that want to pursue that in favor of these "guest worker" or unprosecuted illegal hiring of undocumented laborers that profit the wealthy so much the way each step of the above process I mention above does.
We need to look at all of us around us as human beings and stop looking at each others as "separate" religions, cultures, genders, etc. that those at the top use in trying to divide us in their methodology of keeping us divided to further their grabbing of more wealth and power at our expense. There are some evil people at the top and even amongst us as well that would do terrible things. But let's be careful not to project the actions of a few bad apples on to those of most of us who are just trying to be decent world and American citizens.
That was certainly the Nazi argument. Must purify the state.
not saying purify it..I just thinks insane to be so pro Islamic immigration.
And many in those countries would look at these comments and try to project a similar characterization of Christianity on to all of us, when most Christians are decent people too. I lived as a kid next door to many Muslim kids when I lived in Turkey, and they were a democratic secular society. They are human beings just like us. I experienced terrorism directly back in the 70's when my H.S. teacher's boyfriend was an American airman kidnapped by Turkish terrorists then too and thankfully escaped unharmed then. And those terrorists then weren't "islamic" terrorists, but more political terrorists aligned with those like the Baeder-Meinhoff gangs in Europe. That was the days that the only "terrorism" that most Americans here knew about were Cuban airline hijackings.
And I still don't hate Turks because of that experience. Some of my best friends are Turks and Persians that I value my friendship and their insights from, and I would daresay many of them value their input in places like Iowa from their contributions where they work there and elsewhere too.
Just because we had the KKK and other Christian extremists also killing people and warping the values of a very decent and valuable religion doesn't mean we should project those groups' actions on to others practicing that religion. Likewise, we shouldn't be confusing the warped actions of some Islamic extremists with those that are decent human beings practicing that religion and many of its good teachings too.
We already do enough to fuel some of this extremism with our actions of war in places like Iraq that many people feel there feel wronged from and get amplified with comments like yours. Please let's be careful who we judge. Judge those harshly that hurt society's balance, but not just people because of some beliefs they have if those fundamental beliefs are shared by many decent people too.
Last edited:
Personally I'd rather people be able to lead happy and safe lives where they are.
It isn't a question of being pro Islamic immigration. It's a question of being open to helping those driven out of their homes by war, famine and the like.
It would have been better if we had worked on the happy and safe bit rather than fomenting and supporting the war and famine bit. But it's too late to change our complicity.
Now is the time to accept responsibility for our meddling - and to try to make the best of it for all concerned.
If we are going to object to the immigration, let's not resent those who are fleeing horrors in the hope of finding safety and better conditions. Instead let's direct our ire toward the leaders who made the decisions that created the conditions that caused such harm. Leaders in our country and others. Leaders in government, industry and religion.
I would respond that it is a Euro issue now BECAUSE of our intervention in the ME. Those people are tired of getting bombed and losing family members.
I'm quite liberal in my views but crap like this is as bad as anything you accuse right wingers of. Please show me the evidence of Jewish terrorism that caused the rise of the nazi party. If they were killing and bombing, I must have missed it.
There is no argument that most Muslims would assimilate and be good citizens. By the same token there can be no argument that there is a portion of Muslims that would never assimilate and see non believers as worthy targets.
And the Muslim world is too scared to deal with that group.
Last edited:
You're in some serious denial if you can't acknowledge the uniquely Islamic violence and intimidation spreading accross many regions of the world. In addition, existing Islamic theocracies are uniformly brutal and deny its citizen basic human rights. See Saudi Arabia. Islamic nations dominate every top ten list of hell hole countries: Syria, Sudan, Pakistan, Somalia, Iraq, Afganistan, and Yemen.http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/12/03/human-rights-risk-atlas-2014-violations-maplecroft_n_4374133.html
Unfortunately, Islam is regressing to its more orthodox and violent roots. While, Christianity long ago dealt with its dark side.
As you say, there are millions of peaceful, live-and-let-live Muslims in the world. But, it appears these Muslims have been intimidated into silence and passivity.
The thing I'll add is that 800,000 number that the Germans expect to take in is very low end. What the Germans are concerned with now is the very real possibility that this could end up being between 2-4 million once families start coming over. 70+% (some say 80%)of the refugees are male and they're planning on bringing their families over. A 5 to 6% increase in population and the social turmoil that's entail is nothing to sneaze at.
The flip side is the Germans need these immigrants because of the falling birth rate....
Watched a round table on German TV and basically the key is integration.. That's why the Germans want to slow this thing down....they need to come up with housing ect ect and a sociologist on the show was arguing it's critical that these folks don't end up all grouped together....they need to be spread out in cities/rural communities ect in order to integrate. The example given was the problems France is having because of the massive immigrant slums and the inability of the muslim minority to really integrate.
It'll be interesting to say the least...
One final thing....to call folks who have concerns about this Nazi's is simplistic and intellectually dishonest. There are real concerns on how to pay for all of this and integrate them into the german society.
I'd like to know how all these migrants are going to be screened by the European countries to ensure that no bad apples get in.
I'm not pro any religious immigration. I just don't see any reason to be more opposed to Muslims than others.
If I thought that was true, I might agree with you.
Convince me. Why do you think that?
Just to be clear, I don't want the crazy zealots from any religious persuasion. But I see no reason to believe that most Muslims are crazy zealots any more than most Christians are crazy zealots.
These people will not assimilate. The Germans will have a bomb a day within 10 years. You can expect things like the French Cartoon assassination before long. These people are not real big on secular thought. I view Islam as I do Nazism or Soviet Communism.
Theocracy = Bad
I think most of us agree with that. [Although I'm not so sure about some of those running for president as Republicans.]
I'm not sure that Islamic nations really dominate top-10 hell hole lists. I think you could make a better argument that the nations that dominate the top-10 are nations that the US has bombed or that US-UK corporations have viciously exploited. For example, Iraq and Syria were pretty decent places before we destroyed them. And you definitely ought to add places in Latin America to that list - places like Nicaragua, El Salvador, Guatamala and more.
No, I'm NOT saying we are responsible for all the world's ills. Just to preempt the predictable response from some of our less mature posters. But we are responsible for a sizable chunk.
The relocation of Somali, Chadian and Sudanese refugees has been a text book definition of successful integration into American Society. They came to the US with the desire to fully assimilate into the American Culture as opposed to other ethnic minority groups that make absolutely no effort to do so and in fact manipulate the legal system to demand special accommodations.
In my opinion, Africans from Chad and Sudan especially should be given special consideration and moved to the front of the line in the immigration process. They are here to become producers and contributors in our economy and communities, not lifetime consumers of our welfare safety net.
Sink a few ships in the Mediterranean...send the message that the door is closed. Deport them aggressively back to Syria, Iraq, etc. Its not nice, but neither are bombings. They simply are not compatible in a secular society.
China's stance on this (as I imagine it):
1. We didn't cause ANY of this. It's not our responsibility.
2. We don't pretend to be driven by overarching concern for those in need.
3. Don't preach to us about helping others when you won't even help people in your own nation who are in need.
4. If we do take any refugees, they will have to agree to completely abandon their religion - on pain of imprisonment or death.
1. We didn't cause ANY of this. It's not our responsibility.
2. We don't pretend to be driven by overarching concern for those in need.
3. Don't preach to us about helping others when you won't even help people in your own nation who are in need.
4. If we do take any refugees, they will have to agree to completely abandon their religion - on pain of imprisonment or death.
Australia and New Zealand positions on this (as I imagine them):
1. If you swam all the way here, we'll give you a temporary visa and might let you stay because - crikey! - that would be pretty awesome, and the Olympics are coming up.
1. If you swam all the way here, we'll give you a temporary visa and might let you stay because - crikey! - that would be pretty awesome, and the Olympics are coming up.
So . . . kill groups of predominantly innocent people and force other predominantly innocent people to stay in a hell hole that we helped create and sustain.
Can't say I'm on board with that plan. Do you have another?
I agree its not nice, but if your choice is that, or a large embedded population of bomber types, which would you take? Sometimes life leads to painful choices....
The premise that we would be accepting a large population of bomber types is certainly wrong. Even if we accepted a large population - which we won't - the number of bomber types will be small or non-existent.
How about implanting all immigrants with GPS units or attaching location bracelets like those used for people on home release programs? Offensive, but something I suspect most immigrants would be willing to accept. Not totally foolproof - but we aren't starting with a very high risk to begin with, so it's probably a reasonable tradeoff.
Certainly better than killing innocents.
If we decide to do this, let me know so I can invest in the companies that make such devices.
Not so much us as the Germans. Ernst Rhome would never accept them. Germany goes over the top to look all loving now.
You are a flat out wrong if you think there is not a difference. I am certainly not pro religion but there is a big difference between the way christianity/judaism is taught and practiced today vs islam.
To somehow compare them as equals is absurd.
And we've had more white right wing terrorist acts in the U.S. since 9/11 than Islamic terrorist acts. Maybe instead of the cops taking Dylan Roof for a meal at Burger King on his way to prison, they should have shot him instead instead of taking him to prison as some here say we should do with those that are increasingly the biggest terrorist threats in our country?
Does U.S. Ignore Right-Wing Terror? More Killed by White Extremists Than Jihadists Since 9/11
And you KNOW this how? Do you go to mosques to see how they are being taught or are you just letting Rush Limbaugh tell you HIS "truth" about what they do?
You have to be kidding.
Ps I'm liberal on most issues out there. I haven't a clue what Fox News has to say about the issue.
it is an old story...interbreed with those you seek to destroy...been going on in this country since the 90's.
Latest posts
-
Another Lackluster Performance Slams Door Shut on Hawkeyes' CFP Dreams
- Latest: hawk_a_holic
-
-
-
