Gun Control In Nazi Germany - Confiscations? Not So Much

[What Would Jesus Do?]

With Ben Carson's latest comment to the effect that an armed German populace could have prevented the Holocaust, I found myself wondering just how many guns Hitler confiscated during his rise to power. I mean it's a relatively unchallenged meme that Hitler confiscated all the guns and that's why he was able to become dictator.

Turns out that isn't really true.

Check these bullet points from the 1938 German Weapons Act that the NRA rails against. Other than the part about banning Jews from weapons manufacture, these are fairly mild gun laws and, as the article points out, represent a relaxation of then-existing German law on many points.
. . .

The 1938 German Weapons Act, the precursor of the current weapons law, superseded the 1928 law. As under the 1928 law, citizens were required to have a permit to carry a firearm and a separate permit to acquire a firearm. But under the new law:

• Gun restriction laws applied only to handguns, not to long guns or ammunition. The 1938 revisions completely deregulated the acquisition and transfer of rifles and shotguns, as well as the possession of ammunition."[5]
• The legal age at which guns could be purchased was lowered from 20 to 18.[6]
• Permits were valid for three years, rather than one year.[6]
• The groups of people who were exempt from the acquisition permit requirement expanded. Holders of annual hunting permits, government workers, and NSDAP members were no longer subject to gun ownership restrictions. Prior to the 1938 law, only officials of the central government, the states, and employees of the German Reichsbahn Railways were exempted.[5]
• Manufacture of arms and ammunition continued to require a permit, with the revision that such permits would no longer be issued to Jews or any company part-owned by Jews. Jews were consequently forbidden from the manufacturing or dealing of firearms and ammunition.[5]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_legislation_in_Germany#Gun_regulation_of_the_Third_Reich

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

The same Wiki article also references a subsequent "executive order" (see what I did there?) barring Jews from having guns. Just in case the reasonableness of most of the 1938 law had anyone fooled. But it very well could have had a lot of Germans fooled, at the time, since it mostly relaxed gun controls.

 

[naturalmwa]

I can't wait to hear how Carson is soooooo brilliant.

 

[tarheelbybirth]

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

Clearly what Obama should do is ram through a bipartisan gun control relaxation bill that would make it easier to have guns. And then while the gun folks are celebrating, issue an executive order banning Republicans from having guns.

 

[cigaretteman]

I can't wait to hear how Carson is soooooo brilliant.

He may actually be brilliant, but he's seriously uninformed and misinformed on a great many subjects.

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

I can't wait to hear how Carson is soooooo brilliant.

I hate to say this but I sort of like Carson. I can imagine Carson and Rubio and maybe even Jeb being candidates I could support if they were right on important issues - like science, and war, and democracy. But they aren't.

As I may have mentioned before, when I was younger I believed that most politicians were probably atheists or agnostics - on the reasoning that to be bright enough to govern a major nation, they couldn't possibly be the superstitious buffoons they sometimes pretended to be for home consumption. Yes, I was naive. I still think that may have been fairly true, back then. But it obviously isn't true now.

By the same token, it's extremely hard for me to believe any of these people really disbelieve evolution, think climate change is a hoax (or even that it isn't a problem we need to tackle), and so on. The CEO of Exxon doesn't doubt climate change is real and serious, for crying out loud. He is simply driven by profit considerations to attack the science and the programs we need to survive. But he knows it's real. Surely these guys do, too. Right?

 

[naturalmwa]

I hate to say this but I sort of like Carson. I can imagine Carson and Rubio and maybe even Jeb being candidates I could support if they were right on important issues - like science, and war, and democracy. But they aren't.

As I may have mentioned before, when I was younger I believed that most politicians were probably atheists or agnostics - on the reasoning that to be bright enough to govern a major nation, they couldn't possibly be the superstitious buffoons they sometimes pretended to be for home consumption. Yes, I was naive. I still think that may have been fairly true, back then. But it obviously isn't true now.

By the same token, it's extremely hard for me to believe any of these people really disbelieve evolution, think climate change is a hoax (or even that it isn't a problem we need to tackle), and so on. The CEO of Exxon doesn't doubt climate change is real and serious, for crying out loud. He is simply driven by profit considerations to attack the science and the programs we need to survive. But he knows it's real. Surely these guys do, too. Right?

When a person presents as a fool, we should just believe them. I think that's wise. I have little faith they are actually just great actors.

 

[CuttyDoesIt]

Said this in another thread. Dude is obviously a very smart surgeon, but very dumb in a lot of areas.

I have no idea why people support him

 

[tarheelbybirth]

By the same token, it's extremely hard for me to believe any of these people really disbelieve evolution, think climate change is a hoax (or even that it isn't a problem we need to tackle), and so on.

Carson is the real deal. He absolutely disbelieves evolution. Claims it was pushed by "the adversary" - whatever the hell that is.

 

[NoleSoup4U]

Carson is the real deal. He absolutely disbelieves evolution. Claims it was pushed by "the adversary" - whatever the hell that is.

Who do you think "the adversary" to Christians is? You can't be that stupid.

 

[naturalmwa]

Who do you think "the adversary" to Christians is? You can't be that stupid.

Truth

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

Who do you think "the adversary" to Christians is? You can't be that stupid.

I could name it but it's harder to believe in it.

While I don't credit the existence of god, the concept of "creator" or "first cause" is easy enough to grasp. But adversary is so much more complex than that.

People may feel a need for a creator. They may feel comforted by an anthropomorphized loving depiction of that creator. But where does the need for an adversary come from?

 

[Titanhawk2]

I found a recounting of Prussian gun laws that obviously predated Hitler. These went back to the time of the 1848 revolution, which the Prussian Kingdom wanted to prevent a recurrence. One of the stipulations of being able to own a gun was that you must then serve in the military. Especially after the formation of the German Empire in 1871, many people emigrated to avoid having to serve.

Anyway, even after the collapse at the end of WWI there really was no armed uprising, so if the contention was lack of guns in the populace aided Hitler's staying power, it probably goes back to even before Bismark.

 

[GarryO37]

Most Germans knew or had some idea about what was going on in the holocaust. There is a lot of evidence and stories that points to this. There is also plenty of evidence showing that the German people just didn't care and that antisemitism was rampant through out Germany during the holocaust. A lot of this can be attributed to Hitler who made it well known how he felt about the Jews to the German people.

Even doing a little bit of research, you can come to the conclusion that it was impossible for the German people to not at least have an idea about what went on during the holocaust.

Now, that being said, Carson was wrong about the Germans being able to stop the holocaust because like I said the majority didn't care.

Hitler did take guns away from the Jews. The disarming of Jews began well before 1938. It just became official in 1938. German police were taking weapons. Jews were handing them over having no clue what was was about to happen in a couple years. It wasn't just guns. It was anything that could be used as a weapon. Why did he do this? Well, I think we all know why he did this.

I know this doesn't fit in with your little circle jerk here, but the Jews could have and would have fought back had they not been disarmed. Or had they known what was about to happen to them. Hitler knew this. It's why he disarmed them.

 

[CuttyDoesIt]

Most Germans knew or had some idea about what was going on in the holocaust. There is a lot of evidence and stories that points to this. There is also plenty of evidence showing that the German people just didn't care and that antisemitism was rampant through out Germany during the holocaust. A lot of this can be attributed to Hitler who made it well known how he felt about the Jews to the German people.

Even doing a little bit of research, you can come to the conclusion that it was impossible for the German people to not at least have an idea about what went on during the holocaust.

Now, that being said, Carson was wrong about the Germans being able to stop the holocaust because like I said the majority didn't care.

Hitler did take guns away from the Jews. The disarming of Jews began well before 1938. It just became official in 1938. German police were taking weapons. Jews were handing them over having no clue what was was about to happen in a couple years. It wasn't just guns. It was anything that could be used as a weapon. Why did he do this? Well, I think we all know why he did this.

I know this doesn't fit in with your little circle jerk here, but the Jews could have and would have fought back had they not been disarmed. Or had they known what was about to happen to them. Hitler knew this. It's why he disarmed them.

So a whole bunch of Jewish guys with guns could defeat an Army that took over all of Europe?

 

[dgordo]

Most Germans knew or had some idea about what was going on in the holocaust. There is a lot of evidence and stories that points to this. There is also plenty of evidence showing that the German people just didn't care and that antisemitism was rampant through out Germany during the holocaust. A lot of this can be attributed to Hitler who made it well known how he felt about the Jews to the German people.

Even doing a little bit of research, you can come to the conclusion that it was impossible for the German people to not at least have an idea about what went on during the holocaust.

Now, that being said, Carson was wrong about the Germans being able to stop the holocaust because like I said the majority didn't care.

Hitler did take guns away from the Jews. The disarming of Jews began well before 1938. It just became official in 1938. German police were taking weapons. Jews were handing them over having no clue what was was about to happen in a couple years. It wasn't just guns. It was anything that could be used as a weapon. Why did he do this? Well, I think we all know why he did this.

I know this doesn't fit in with your little circle jerk here, but the Jews could have and would have fought back had they not been disarmed. Or had they known what was about to happen to them. Hitler knew this. It's why he disarmed them.

Let me tell my grandfather that if he has just had a gun he could have fought off the nazis.

He says derp.

 

[GarryO37]

So a whole bunch of Jewish guys with guns could defeat an Army that took over all of Europe?

Didn't say that did?

I guess there was some other reason Hitler took away weapons from Jews right?

Let's hear it.

Common sense isn't a strength of yours, is it?

 

[GarryO37]

Let me tell my grandfather that if he has just had a gun he could have fought off the nazis.

He says derp.

You're full of it. So you're grandfather says if the Jews had weapons they wouldn't have fought back? Instead of fight back, they would have just let the Nazis slaughter them?

Tell your grandfather I say derp.

 

[CuttyDoesIt]

Gary is pretty smart.

 

[THE_DEVIL]

Truth

That's an awesome post. Well done sir.

 

[NoleSoup4U]

I guess they didn't have to take away the guns because they assumed the Jews would just roll over and take it. They guessed right.

 

[dgordo]

You're full of it. So you're grandfather says if the Jews had weapons they wouldn't have fought back? Instead of fight back, they would have just let the Nazis slaughter them?

Tell your grandfather I say derp.

I've discussed this with him numerous times because it seems to come up often lately. Many had guns, they were outnumber by a tremendous amount, they knew they were going to be placed in prison camps but had no idea they would be killed. They certainly could have taken out a few nazis but they would have been killed. I supposed it's possible that you know more about the situation then those that lived it but I'd say that's pretty unlikely.

 

[IMCC965]

There's a lot of this in this thread……………

 

[GarryO37]

Gary is pretty smart.

Smart enough to spell someone's handle correctly, right?

 

[GarryO37]

I've discussed this with him numerous times because it seems to come up often lately. Many had guns, they were outnumber by a tremendous amount, they knew they were going to be placed in prison camps but had no idea they would be killed. They certainly could have taken out a few nazis but they would have been killed. I supposed it's possible that you know more about the situation then those that lived it but I'd say that's pretty unlikely.

No. Many of the Jews didn't have guns. The Nazi's were going door to door taking their weapons. They were doing it prior to the 1938 German Weapons Act. It's very well documented. It one of the things the Germans did well. It lead to war crimes convictions.

But hey, what do historians who've done years and years of research and people who've actually lived it know? Right?

 

[dgordo]

No. Many of the Jews didn't have guns. The Nazi's were going door to door taking their weapons. They were doing it prior to the 1938 German Weapons Act. It's very well documented. It one of the things the Germans did well. It lead to war crimes convictions.

But hey, what do historians who've done years and years of research and people who've actually lived it know? Right?

The Shoah foundation has a great video with interviews of survivors and liberators. My grandfather is in it. I'd suggest you watch it. Yes it was illegal for Jews to own guns but many still had illegal weapons. Making guns illegal doesn't stop people from possessing them. The topic of why not fight back was addressed in these interviews.

 

[preshlock]

The overwhelming number of Jewish victims came from Poland (3,000,000) and occupied areas of the Soviet Union (1,800,000). These were people that were defended by standing armies and in the case of the Soviet Union the largest in world.

Moreover the Germans encountered armed resistance movements throughout occupied Europe - which had varying degrees of success. Had the Jews been armed they could have tied up more German resources along with the other partisan groups. But in the end they would have still been nearly exterminated all the same.

 

[GarryO37]

The Shoah foundation has a great video with interviews of survivors and liberators. My grandfather is in it. I'd suggest you watch it. Yes it was illegal for Jews to own guns but many still had illegal weapons. Making guns illegal doesn't stop people from possessing them. The topic of why not fight back was addressed in these interviews.

And there it is.

 

[preshlock]

Also people seem to be making the mistake of depicting Jews as a single monolithic group. They were integrated to various extents across Europe. Ironically prior to the Nazi take over were fairly well assimilated in Germany as well. For instance the Jews were much more accepted in Western Europe than Central Europe and generally speaking were treated poorer the further East you went.

The exterminations began at different points depending on the country. For instance the first mass killings were carried out in the Soviet Union with Barbarossa beginning in June 1941. The last mass deportations occurred in Hungary in October 1944. So Jewish resistance wouldn't have been a single movement.

 

[binsfeldcyhawk2]

Most Germans knew or had some idea about what was going on in the holocaust. There is a lot of evidence and stories that points to this. There is also plenty of evidence showing that the German people just didn't care and that antisemitism was rampant through out Germany during the holocaust. A lot of this can be attributed to Hitler who made it well known how he felt about the Jews to the German people.

Even doing a little bit of research, you can come to the conclusion that it was impossible for the German people to not at least have an idea about what went on during the holocaust.

Now, that being said, Carson was wrong about the Germans being able to stop the holocaust because like I said the majority didn't care.

Hitler did take guns away from the Jews. The disarming of Jews began well before 1938. It just became official in 1938. German police were taking weapons. Jews were handing them over having no clue what was was about to happen in a couple years. It wasn't just guns. It was anything that could be used as a weapon. Why did he do this? Well, I think we all know why he did this.

I know this doesn't fit in with your little circle jerk here, but the Jews could have and would have fought back had they not been disarmed. Or had they known what was about to happen to them. Hitler knew this. It's why he disarmed them.

Actually anti-semitism was pretty rampant throughout Europe for centuries. They were blamed for pretty much every catastrophe that befell European countries for centuries.

Hitler was just the climax.....kind of fed into human nature. Humans are pretty susceptible to the "us and them" mentality. It's why minorities are pretty much discriminated against around the world.

(Not minimizing the holocaust or the evil that was Hitler and the Nazi's in any way)

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

When a person presents as a fool, we should just believe them. I think that's wise. I have little faith they are actually just great actors.

That's my general rule of thumb, too.

 

[NoleSoup4U]

Actually anti-semitism was pretty rampant throughout Europe for centuries. They were blamed for pretty much every catastrophe that befell European countries for centuries.

Hitler was just the climax.....kind of fed into human nature. Humans are pretty susceptible to the "us and them" mentality. It's why minorities are pretty much discriminated against around the world.

(Not minimizing the holocaust or the evil that was Hitler and the Nazi's in any way)

Why were Jewish people hated so much?

 

[naturalmwa]

Why were Jewish people hated so much?

Christians blamed them for killing Jesus because they wanted the real killer, Rome, to like them. It worked too, that's why a quarter of the planet still follows the Roman government's state religion.

 

[NoleSoup4U]

9

Christians blamed them for killing Jesus because they wanted the real killer, Rome, to like them. It worked too, that's why a quarter of the planet still follows the Roman government's state religion.

That was almost two thousand years before WWII, and Germany wasn't exactly a Christian nation to boot. You're going to have to come up with a better explanation than that.

 

[naturalmwa]

9


That was almost two thousand years before WWII, and Germany wasn't exactly a Christian nation to boot. You're going to have to come up with a better explanation than that.

Nope, thats the root of the anti semitism that existed in largely Christian 1930's Germany. That thinking stuck around until the evangelical groups figured out they needed the Jews to serve as a sacrifice to bring about the End Times. Now Christians want to support the Jews in hopes they will rebuild the Temple and magically trigger the apocalypse where they will be burned as an offering to Jesus. It's sort of a cosmic ovens plan now. But it all goes back to a political decision to cast the Jews as Jesus killers to make Christianity palatable to Romans.

 

[NoleSoup4U]

Bullshit. You don't murder 5 million people and then just turn that hatred around 10 years later.

Edit: And if you actually were correct, why wasn't this going on in other countries, expressly Italy?

 

[naturalmwa]

Bullshit. You don't murder 5 million people and then just turn that hatred around 10 years later.

Edit: And if you actually were correct, why wasn't this going on in other countries, expressly Italy?

What are you talking about? German Christians murdered them. American Evangelicals embraced them decades later. And anti semitism was rampant all over in the 1930's.

 

[NoleSoup4U]

Germans killed them, but the Nazi's weren't Christians. And again, why wasn't this going on in other countries? Italy must have been governing over hundreds of thousands of Jews in their conquest of the ME and north Africa. What about them?

You want the easy scapegoat, but it isn't that easy. Something else was going on.

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

9


That was almost two thousand years before WWII, and Germany wasn't exactly a Christian nation to boot. You're going to have to come up with a better explanation than that.

The Reformation started in Germany. Pretty Christian place.

Yes, Jews were blamed for killing Christ. They were also reviled for the anti-Christian practice of usury. They were depicted as devious controllers of money and wealth with vast secret powers. They tended to be "different" and not mix with ordinary culture. They were accused of vile religious rituals. And on and on.

Antisemitism was widespread in Europe and also fairly common in America. Pro-fascists such as Father Coughlin railed against Jewish influence in banking and government in the 1930s. Later on Jews were said to control Hollywood and many newspapers. Jews were closely linked to communism and socialism. Jews played prominent roles in America's Civil Rights Movement.