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Hardball Interview wasn't the first time Conway claimed there was a Bowling Green Massacre

Jan Itor said:
silasstarr said:
On Muslims coming to the U.S.
At a rally in December 2015 in Mount Pleasant, S.C., Trump defended his plan for a "total and complete shutdown of Muslims" by comparing it with former president Franklin Roosevelt's decision to inter Japanese Americans during the Second World War.

trump-ban-muslims-quote.jpg

(Mic Smith/Associated Press)

In support of a Muslim database.
"I would certainly implement that. Absolutely," Trump told an NBC News reporter between campaign events in November 2015 while in Newton, Iowa.
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He also said on his campaign and during the debates he was going to lock Hillary up meaning sic his AG on her.
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Yeah? And his supporters went nuts cheering for him we he said that stuff. Why? Because they hate Hillary, and they hate Muslims.
 
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artradley said:
Yeah? And his supporters went nuts cheering for him we he said that stuff. Why? Because they hate Hillary, and they hate Muslims.
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Do you know any Trump supporters that hate Muslims? Be honest. Because I don't
 
Jan Itor said:
So they said they hate all Muslims? Or could they have been talking about the radicals? Either way, why do you hang with haters?
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She won't go to the Mall of America because she is afraid of them. I don't hang out with her.
 
Jan Itor said:
I don't know if those figures are correct or not. I've never heard a Trump supporter say they hate Muslims. I know those people do exist though, because there is bigotry in this country and it takes all forms.

My main point is the "Temporary" ban on those selected countries does not equate to hating Muslims, IMO.

Just like trying to keep illegal immigrants coming in from the southern border does not equate to hating Mexicans.

Yes, there are people that hate Mexicans, but most people that want a secure border, and want immigrants coming into this country to do so legally do not hate Mexicans.

Same with the Temp Ban..... Most people don't hate Muslims or refugees, they just want them vetted as best as we can, before letting them in this country.

In Syria, the infrastructure is so damaged, we can't verify with records who many of these people are. Yes, women & children I would say are not a threat, but they aren't just women and children. And we don't know if it's an ISIS idiot posing as a refugee.

Again, these measures don't mean they're doing this ecause they hate Muslims or Mexicans.
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If you have never heard a Trump supporter say they hate Muslims you are not listening. They say it all the time around here.
 
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If you support the ban, you either hate Muslims or at least don't give a shit about them.
 
naturalmwa said:
If you have never heard a Trump supporter say they hate Muslims you are not listening. They say it all the time around here.
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Really? I have not read anyone on her that said they hate Muslims. Is entirely possible that I have missed that, which is amazing if it happens as often as you say.

I know several Trump supporters and ask them specifically if they hate Muslims, and everyone of them specifically say not Muslims, radical Jihadist Muslims. There is a difference.
 
Raglefant said:
If you support the ban, you either hate Muslims or at least don't give a shit about them.
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That's bullshit. And why is it so hard for you to say Temporary Ban? BTW, even if this temporary ban went into effect, we'd still be letting Muslims into this country. So yea, they hate Muslims. :rolleyes: Geeeeeeeeeeeeez
 
Jan Itor said:
Really? I have not read anyone on her that said they hate Muslims. Is entirely possible that I have missed that, which is amazing if it happens as often as you say.

I know several Trump supporters and ask them specifically if they hate Muslims, and everyone of them specifically say not Muslims, radical Jihadist Muslims. There is a difference.
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Don't you know when a person is lying? I'll help you out. When a person says they only hate the radicals, yet vote for policies that attack everyone, they are not being honest. Fortunately, you don't even need to ferret out that rudimentary deduction. Because several posters here will right up tell you they hate Muslims. Now i suppose if you want to hide behind some semantic shield that they don't explicitly hate every last solitary Muslim because they are fans of Kareem Abdul-Jabbar or some such celebrity, well have at it. But that's hardly a point worth considering.

I'm not sure hating Muslims is even something people should feel too bad about. They are people who deny the divinity of the God most Americans think you need to worship to gain salvation. Their faith generally teaches ethical and cultural norms that are hugely at odds with our own traditions which I feel are mostly superior. When a group is at odds with you and willing to push their point, it's kind of understandable to hate them. Its not like its some crazy, unwarranted position. It takes a lot of patience and understanding to separate the Muslim from Islam and to push for a more secular form of the religion which I feel is necessary if we are going to ever make it a religion of peace. Religion needs humanism to be divine.
 
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naturalmwa said:
Don't you know when a person is lying? I'll help you out. When a person says they only hate the radicals, yet vote for policies that attack everyone, they are not being honest. Fortunately, you don't even need to ferret out that rudimentary deduction. Because several posters here will right up tell you they hate Muslims. Now i suppose if you want to hide behind some semantic shield that they don't explicitly hate every last solitary Muslim because they are fans of Kareem Abdul-Jabbar or some such celebrity, well have at it. But that's hardly a point worth considering.

I'm not sure hating Muslims is even something people should feel too bad about. They are people who deny the divinity of the God most Americans think you need to worship to gain salvation. Their faith generally teaches ethical and cultural norms that are hugely at odds with our own traditions which I feel are mostly superior. When a group is at odds with you and willing to push their point, it's kind of understandable to hate them. Its not like its some crazy, unwarranted position. It takes a lot of patience and understanding to separate the Muslim from Islam and to push for a more secular form of the religion which I feel is necessary if we are going to ever make it a religion of peace. Religion needs humanism to be divine.
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Again, how is it Muslim hatred when this attempt at a "Temporary Ban" on the seven countries Obama designated still allows Muslims from so many other countries with millions of Muslims in them to continue to come to America.

The left and right allows like to paint things with the broadest brush they can find to advance their agenda, which is to gain back control.
 
Raglefant said:
Why is it so hard to understand that temporary doesn't make it better? Let's have a temporary ban on Hispanic voting, just until we can figure out what's going on.
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Love how you only quoted the first part and skipped over the fact that Muslims are still allowed to come to this country even with this Temporary ban is in place. But oh yea, they hate Muslims. All of them. Wake up.
 
It's all well and good to make fun of Conway. But does anyone want to address the fact that most of what she said actually was true?

There really were two former Iraqi insurgents who managed to sneak into America under the refugee program and settled in Bowling Green. They really were radicalized and had planted IEDs in Iraq to kill American soldiers. They really were trying to acquire weapons to kill more American soldiers and/or civilians. The FBI caught them on videotape trying to steal machine guns and grenade launchers.

The Obama administration really did temporarily ban Iraqi immigration for 6 months when they learned about these and other Iraqi terrorists who had managed to deceive the refugee screening process. And when the program resumed again there were stricter guidelines in place.

Is any of that worth discussing? Or is it just fun to mock her about the massacre that didn't happen?
 
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Jan Itor said:
Again, how is it Muslim hatred when this attempt at a "Temporary Ban" on the seven countries Obama designated still allows Muslims from so many other countries with millions of Muslims in them to continue to come to America.

The left and right allows like to paint things with the broadest brush they can find to advance their agenda, which is to gain back control.
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Why are you hanging your hat on this "Temporary" language? As if some temporary slight doesn't communicate disrespect. Further we all know the feelings on the right are more broad, they have told us so. They flat out told us their desire was a total and complete ban on Muslims. You can't leave out that context just because they didn't get the order on the books yet. If they win this current battle, the effort will expand. Trump told us his goal. You should really start listening better. You're like those Germans who claimed they had no idea what was going on at the concentration camps. This isn't a mystery if you simply listen to their words.

https://www.donaldjtrump.com/press-...mp-statement-on-preventing-muslim-immigration
 
naturalmwa said:
Why are you hanging your hat on this "Temporary" language? As if some temporary slight doesn't communicate disrespect. Further we all know the feelings on the right are more broad, they have told us so. They flat out told us their desire was a total and complete ban on Muslims. You can't leave out that context just because they didn't get the order on the books yet. If they win this current battle, the effort will expand. Trump told us his goal. You should really start listening better. You're like those Germans who claimed they had no idea what was going on at the concentration camps. This isn't a mystery if you simply listen to their words.

https://www.donaldjtrump.com/press-...mp-statement-on-preventing-muslim-immigration
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I'm surprised any of you even come out of your homes for fear that Trump and the GOP are going to get you. Pretty sad.
 
So, here's the question:

Did Cosmo not include that part in the original article because it never happened, or because it was a good point that made Obama look like he did what Trump did?

Answer: Obviously the latter, because they have no problem mentioning it now, knowing that it didn't happen.

So, Cosmo, holds back an answer showing that Obama did exactly the same thing Trump did and doesn't bring it to light until it can actually hurt Trump. Man, what a dignified periodical.
 
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TJ8869 said:
It's all well and good to make fun of Conway. But does anyone want to address the fact that most of what she said actually was true?

There really were two former Iraqi insurgents who managed to sneak into America under the refugee program and settled in Bowling Green. They really were radicalized and had planted IEDs in Iraq to kill American soldiers. They really were trying to acquire weapons to kill more American soldiers and/or civilians. The FBI caught them on videotape trying to steal machine guns and grenade launchers.

The Obama administration really did temporarily ban Iraqi immigration for 6 months when they learned about these and other Iraqi terrorists who had managed to deceive the refugee screening process. And when the program resumed again there were stricter guidelines in place.

Is any of that worth discussing? Or is it just fun to mock her about the massacre that didn't happen?
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The simple fact that US citizens are being radicalized indicates the propaganda they get is where you need to focus, not on the 'immigration'. No refugee or immigrant has been able to 'sneak thru' our existing systems to coordinate any attacks.

People being radicalized here can come from any walk of life, and that is a bigger concern than 'immigration processes'. No 'fix' or 'change' to the immigration process addresses that, which is the point.
 
Joes Place said:
The simple fact that US citizens are being radicalized indicates the propaganda they get is where you need to focus, not on the 'immigration'. No refugee or immigrant has been able to 'sneak thru' our existing systems to coordinate any attacks.

People being radicalized here can come from any walk of life, and that is a bigger concern than 'immigration processes'. No 'fix' or 'change' to the immigration process addresses that, which is the point.
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Under the current system. Are you talking about the system put in place after Obama put a six month ban on immigrants from Iraq coming to this country? Because before that ban, two such people did make it here.
 
Joes Place said:
The simple fact that US citizens are being radicalized indicates the propaganda they get is where you need to focus, not on the 'immigration'. No refugee or immigrant has been able to 'sneak thru' our existing systems to coordinate any attacks.

People being radicalized here can come from any walk of life, and that is a bigger concern than 'immigration processes'. No 'fix' or 'change' to the immigration process addresses that, which is the point.
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Those are valid points, but we still aren't addressing the point that Obama temporarily suspended Iraqi immigration when it was learned there were flaws in the screening process and radicalized insurgents were getting into our country. Military intelligence had one dude's fingerprints on an unexploded IED and he still slipped through the vetting process.

If we can't properly screen applicants from a country like Iraq where we had tens of thousands on boots on the ground then how can we properly screen applicants from a place like Syria where we have very few?
 
naturalmwa said:
Why are you hanging your hat on this "Temporary" language? As if some temporary slight doesn't communicate disrespect. Further we all know the feelings on the right are more broad, they have told us so. They flat out told us their desire was a total and complete ban on Muslims. You can't leave out that context just because they didn't get the order on the books yet. If they win this current battle, the effort will expand. Trump told us his goal. You should really start listening better. You're like those Germans who claimed they had no idea what was going on at the concentration camps. This isn't a mystery if you simply listen to their words.

https://www.donaldjtrump.com/press-...mp-statement-on-preventing-muslim-immigration
Click to expand...

Also, why weren't you up in arms when Obama put a six month ban on immigrants/refugees coming from Iraq?
 
TJ8869 said:
Those are valid points, but we still aren't addressing the point that Obama temporarily suspended Iraqi immigration when it was learned there were flaws in the screening process and radicalized insurgents were getting into our country. Military intelligence had one dude's fingerprints on an unexploded IED and he still slipped through the vetting process.

If we can't properly screen applicants from a country like Iraq where we had tens of thousands on boots on the ground then how can we properly screen applicants from a place like Syria where we have very few?
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...and those 'flaws' apparently have been addressed.
The guys who made it in were tracked and were unable to commit any terrorist acts here; they went back to Iraq for that. I'm fine if some 'slip thru' the process so long as we have the systems to track and stop them, because no system is going to be 100% foolproof. If terrorists want to send people into the US, they aren't going to do it from countries we are watching, they will do it through places we aren't.
 
WTF is up with you guys thinking these two things are the same? Obama didn't ban immigration from Iraq for six months. Show me the six months that had no immigration from Iraq. They never announced it as a ban or promoted in anyway the same as Trump did. And the tightening they did do to the refugee program was due to a weakness identified in the process from an actual threat. Not just a boogeyman claim that bad dudes are pouring into our country. The false equivalencies are out of control.

And Obama did get pressure because the delays stopped Iraqis that helped the US from coming here.
 
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Joes Place said:
...and those 'flaws' apparently have been addressed.
The guys who made it in were tracked and were unable to commit any terrorist acts here; they went back to Iraq for that. I'm fine if some 'slip thru' the process so long as we have the systems to track and stop them, because no system is going to be 100% foolproof.
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The only reason they were tracked is because someone tipped off the FBI that they were looking to acquire heavy weaponry. If they had kept things on a smaller scale and just bought a couple of AR-15s to shoot up a shopping mall or school then we probably wouldn't have caught them until it was too late. But there is no doubt they came to this country with one purpose in mind - to kill Americans.
 
Joes Place said:
...and those 'flaws' apparently have been addressed.
The guys who made it in were tracked and were unable to commit any terrorist acts here; they went back to Iraq for that. I'm fine if some 'slip thru' the process so long as we have the systems to track and stop them, because no system is going to be 100% foolproof. If terrorists want to send people into the US, they aren't going to do it from countries we are watching, they will do it through places we aren't.
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Were you okay with Obama's six month ban on Iraq, or were you even aware of it until this latest dust up?
 
BABiscuit said:
WTF is up with you guys thinking these two things are the same? Obama didn't ban immigration from Iraq for six months. Show me the six months that had no immigration from Iraq. They never announced it as a ban or promoted in anyway the same as Trump did. And the tightening they did do was due to a weakness identified in the process from an actual threat. Not just a boogeyman claim that bad dudes are pouring into our country. The false equivalencies are out of control.

And Obama did get pressure because the delays stopped Iraqis that helped the US from coming here.
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He didn't?
 
Jan Itor said:
Were you okay with Obama's six month ban on Iraq, or were you even aware of it until this latest dust up?
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I don't think that involved revoking existing visas and inconveniencing thousands of people, did it?
Probably because it was well planned and well executed.
 
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Joes Place said:
I don't think that involved revoking existing visas and inconveniencing thousands of people, did it?
Probably because it was well planned and well executed.
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It delayed the refugee program for six months. Although, "some" refugees still were able to come in.
 
TJ8869 said:
It's all well and good to make fun of Conway. But does anyone want to address the fact that most of what she said actually was true?

There really were two former Iraqi insurgents who managed to sneak into America under the refugee program and settled in Bowling Green. They really were radicalized and had planted IEDs in Iraq to kill American soldiers. They really were trying to acquire weapons to kill more American soldiers and/or civilians. The FBI caught them on videotape trying to steal machine guns and grenade launchers.

The Obama administration really did temporarily ban Iraqi immigration for 6 months when they learned about these and other Iraqi terrorists who had managed to deceive the refugee screening process. And when the program resumed again there were stricter guidelines in place.

Is any of that worth discussing? Or is it just fun to mock her about the massacre that didn't happen?
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Most of what she said was true? Here is what she said.

He did that because two Iraqi nationals came to this country, joined ISIS, traveled back to the Middle East to get trained and refine their terrorism skills and come back here and were the masterminds behind the Bowling Green massacre of taking innocent soldiers' lives away."

Literally the only thing true in that is two Iraqi nations came to this country. They didn't join ISIS. They didn't travel back to the ME to get trained, and there was no Bowling Green massacre.
 
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