Hawks to emphasize ball movement vs. PSU

[FWIW4922463]

That's what Fran told the Press-Citizen. But what he didn't say, of course, is that no matter how well you move the ball, when you have certain lineups on the floor, the opponent only has to guard 2 or 3 or 4 Hawkeyes. So move the ball all you want. It ain't gonna help if you don't have scorers on the floor.

What Fran should have said is that he needs to change the starting lineup and play his best players the most minutes.

That would begin with moving Rebraca and JBo out of the starting lineup and replacing them with Kris Murray and Sandfort. But that ain't how Fran rolls. He and KF see the problems. But they just refuse to take the most obvious steps to solve them.

CMac is constantly left wide open at the three-point line. So I guess that was good ball movement to find an open player. Or is it that the opponent wants CMac to shoot and can't be bothered to guard a guy who's made five shots all year.

Fran and KF enjoy running into that brick wall over and over and over and over and over and over again. Just gotta execute, right, Fran? Just gotta execute, right KF? It would be funny if it weren't so freakin' sad.

 

[2432Hawk]

Jfc

 

[perryhawk]

That's what Fran told the Press-Citizen. But what he didn't say, of course, is that no matter how well you move the ball, when you have certain lineups on the floor, the opponent only has to guard 2 or 3 or 4 Hawkeyes. So move the ball all you want. It ain't gonna help if you don't have scorers on the floor.

What Fran should have said is that he needs to change the starting lineup and play his best players the most minutes.

That would begin with moving Rebraca and JBo out of the starting lineup and replacing them with Kris Murray and Sandfort. But that ain't how Fran rolls. He and KF see the problems. But they just refuse to take the most obvious steps to solve them.

CMac is constantly left wide open at the three-point line. So I guess that was good ball movement to find an open player. Or is it that the opponent wants CMac to shoot and can't be bothered to guard a guy who's made five shots all year.

Fran and KF enjoy running into that brick wall over and over and over and over and over and over again. Just gotta execute, right, Fran? Just gotta execute, right KF? It would be funny if it weren't so freakin' sad.

It's amazing how easy to correct some of these things are and somehow the highly paid, successful, richly experienced coaches don't seem to see or do what some fans think they should. It's almost like they know something we don't.

 

[TheTruthTheWholeTruth]

I can’t imagine watching something that I truly hate. Read a book or something, OP.

 

[jonesy5960]

It's amazing how easy to correct some of these things are and somehow the highly paid, successful, richly experienced coaches don't seem to see or do what some fans think they should. It's almost like they know something we don't.

Let's be honest here Perry. Fran hasn't played his best hand this year. You know it. I know it. The team knows it, and Fran knows it.

 

[RocknRollface]

It's amazing how easy to correct some of these things are and somehow the highly paid, successful, richly experienced coaches don't seem to see or do what some fans think they should. It's almost like they know something we don't.

Its amazing how the overwhelming majority of fans, announcers and opposing coaches can see just how incredibly simple it is to stop playing Connor and play Kris more.

Its almost like the coach has some sort of a built in bias, some sort of emotional attachment, some kind relationship that goes deeper than basketball.

If only we could figure out what that was?

Guess we'll just trust the coaches expertise in playing the worst player and the second best player similar minutes.

 

[TheTruthTheWholeTruth]

The horse is dead, guys.

 

[RocknRollface]

Let's be honest here Perry. Fran hasn't played his best hand this year. You know it. I know it. The team knows it, and Fran knows it.

I don't know if he does know it.

Certain people are afraid to think for themselves.

 

[perryhawk]

Its amazing how the overwhelming majority of fans, announcers and opposing coaches can see just how incredibly simple it is to stop playing Connor and play Kris more.

Its almost like the coach has some sort of a built in bias, some sort of emotional attachment, some kind relationship that goes deeper than basketball.

If only we could figure out what that was?

Guess we'll just trust the coaches expertise in playing the worst player and the second best player similar minutes.

Well done, good response!

I certainly agree that Kris should play more......but I also think, and stated in a different thread, that we've reached the point where PS should be taking the time now being used by Connor. Certainly there is some bias on Fran's behalf in favor of CM.....but OBVIOUSLY Fran knows more than all of us here combined.....he sees them everyday in practice...he knows so much that we don't, that what is a conclusion us fans easily jump to, clearly lacks the knowledge and insight that Fran has.....so the conclusions based on the limited time we see them in games may or may not have validity.

Let's say that the reality is that Fran sees Kris in practice....and that on some days he looks great (a man among boys), but that on other days he's no where close to that. Let's say Fran sees that when Kris is on, you see it right from the start...conversely, when Kris is off his game, you also see it relatively quickly. So during the games Fran uses Kris and when he's off, he plays less minutes. When he's on, he plays more minutes........so what fans see is only when Kris is on and piling up the points and that some games he isn't playing as many minutes...= stupid or stubborn coach....not a coach varying his lineup based on who is playing well.

 

[IllQChawk]

I don't know if he does know it.

Certain people are afraid to think for themselves.

Or certain people are just not comfortable being too successful. I think Fran just likes his teams to fly under the radar as often as they can. Every year they lose games they have no business in losing and end up with multiple loses every year.
He's at a perfect location where the university hasn't had the success of a Blue Blood program and the AD and most of the fans are content just to be average.
No pressure to go out and recruit one and doners, get players that fly under the radar and hopefully they will improve over the 4 years.
His recruiting budget has to one of the lowest in the Big Ten as he mostly concentrates his recruiting efforts in and around the midwest, but he has occasionally rediscovered that the east coast has pretty good players too.
Why he continues to play Connor and JBO extended minutes with little or no success is baffling and is program suicide and as most on here have said playing Kris and Payton in place of the beforementioned players gives Iowa the best chances to win games. It's not rocket science.....

 

[RocknRollface]

Well done, good response!

I certainly agree that Kris should play more......but I also think, and stated in a different thread, that we've reached the point where PS should be taking the time now being used by Connor. Certainly there is some bias on Fran's behalf in favor of CM.....but OBVIOUSLY Fran knows more than all of us here combined.....he sees them everyday in practice...he knows so much that we don't, that what is a conclusion us fans easily jump to, clearly lacks the knowledge and insight that Fran has.....so the conclusions based on the limited time we see them in games may or may not have validity.

Let's say that the reality is that Fran sees Kris in practice....and that on some days he looks great (a man among boys), but that on other days he's no where close to that. Let's say Fran sees that when Kris is on, you see it right from the start...conversely, when Kris is off his game, you also see it relatively quickly. So during the games Fran uses Kris and when he's off, he plays less minutes. When he's on, he plays more minutes........so what fans see is only when Kris is on and piling up the points and that some games he isn't playing as many minutes...= stupid or stubborn coach....not a coach varying his lineup based on who is playing well.

Thats such an asinine scenario to believe that its not worth addressing as if it were a serious possibility. Thats not at all how basketball works.

You've have laid out a text book confirmation bias argument based on faith rather than evidence.

Besides the obvious fact is Kris two best games were when Fran was forced to play him more minutes.

 

[jonesy5960]

I don't know if he does know it.

Certain people are afraid to think for themselves.

He knows it.

 

[jonesy5960]

Well done, good response!

I certainly agree that Kris should play more......but I also think, and stated in a different thread, that we've reached the point where PS should be taking the time now being used by Connor. Certainly there is some bias on Fran's behalf in favor of CM.....but OBVIOUSLY Fran knows more than all of us here combined.....he sees them everyday in practice...he knows so much that we don't, that what is a conclusion us fans easily jump to, clearly lacks the knowledge and insight that Fran has.....so the conclusions based on the limited time we see them in games may or may not have validity.

Let's say that the reality is that Fran sees Kris in practice....and that on some days he looks great (a man among boys), but that on other days he's no where close to that. Let's say Fran sees that when Kris is on, you see it right from the start...conversely, when Kris is off his game, you also see it relatively quickly. So during the games Fran uses Kris and when he's off, he plays less minutes. When he's on, he plays more minutes........so what fans see is only when Kris is on and piling up the points and that some games he isn't playing as many minutes...= stupid or stubborn coach....not a coach varying his lineup based on who is playing well.

C'mon Perry. This is such a dumb and intellectually dishonest take and you know it. Fran doesn't play Kris minutes based on how he's playing that day. He plays Kris based upon who is out with fouls or injuries. Kris has exceeded 20 minutes 4 times in conference all year and 3 of 4 times were because of injuries or foul trouble with Keegan or Rebraca.

The bias is clear with Cmac, Jbo and Pmac. Cmac should not be playing. Jbo and Pmac can look like crap for the better part of a game and play as many minutes as they can supply as they have many times. Fran playing players based on gameday performance is sheer nonsense.

Oh, and we don't need to see Kris in practice. He's been the best or second best player on the floor pretty much every time he's been out there.

 

[RocknRollface]

He knows it.

Maybe subconsciously.

 

[HoustonREDHawk]

Kris needs to be on the floor more, and in most games, Connor and JBo less. I also have liked what I have seen in short spurts from Sandfort, especially some very nice assists. I think we almost all agree on those statements, but there is no one approach that is clear, at least to me. I personally would stick with the starting lineup that we have used, but Kris would be coming in earlier for either Rebraca or Patrick, depending on how the game has developed over the first 5-6 minutes. JBo would also sit more quickly, unless he is getting and making shots, and usually I would go to Perkins, who always brings great energy and better defense. After that, I like JoeT usually getting a few more minutes than Ulis, but they should split PG about 22/18 min most games. Whether Connor or Sandfort play more would depend on whether we need more shooting or the game is more of a brawl. Whatever, the game tonight is a must win.

 

[Bulldogs1974]

It's amazing how easy to correct some of these things are and somehow the highly paid, successful, richly experienced coaches don't seem to see or do what some fans think they should. It's almost like they know something we don't.

we have a decade of evidence that says fran plays dumb lineups and uses too many players.

 

[TheTruthTheWholeTruth]

I’m shocked some of you made it through the Lickliter era with your mental faculties intact.

 

[EpenesaEpenesa]

Yes, more ball movement is the answer to Iowa's issues 😂

 

[Ronman]

Or certain people are just not comfortable being too successful. I think Fran just likes his teams to fly under the radar as often as they can. Every year they lose games they have no business in losing and end up with multiple loses every year.

Which loss did we have no business accruing? Either Purdue game? Illinois without Keegan? ISU at Ames? Wisconsin in Madison? Rutgers? We all saw how that game was handled. Actually I think our record is exactly what may Iowa fans would have predicted right now. And given our preseason ranking, those would be optimistic fans.

 

[BigOHawk]

I still would love to see some empirical evidence or data about sitting players with two fouls in the 1st half for 10 minutes+. What's the difference if Keegan for example gets foul #3 just before half or at the 17:00 of 2nd half? His worth over those minutes is worth a lot. I simply don't understand it.

 

[Hawk_4shur]

Fran and KF enjoy running into that brick wall over and over and over and over and over and over again. Just gotta execute, right, Fran? Just gotta execute, right KF? It would be funny if it weren't so freakin' sad.

You must also enjoy running into a brick wall.

 

[HawkLogic]

Well done, good response!

I certainly agree that Kris should play more......but I also think, and stated in a different thread, that we've reached the point where PS should be taking the time now being used by Connor. Certainly there is some bias on Fran's behalf in favor of CM.....but OBVIOUSLY Fran knows more than all of us here combined.....he sees them everyday in practice...he knows so much that we don't, that what is a conclusion us fans easily jump to, clearly lacks the knowledge and insight that Fran has.....so the conclusions based on the limited time we see them in games may or may not have validity.

Let's say that the reality is that Fran sees Kris in practice....and that on some days he looks great (a man among boys), but that on other days he's no where close to that. Let's say Fran sees that when Kris is on, you see it right from the start...conversely, when Kris is off his game, you also see it relatively quickly. So during the games Fran uses Kris and when he's off, he plays less minutes. When he's on, he plays more minutes........so what fans see is only when Kris is on and piling up the points and that some games he isn't playing as many minutes...= stupid or stubborn coach....not a coach varying his lineup based on who is playing well.

That isn't logical.

Fran has spent 9 combined years waiting for Josh Ogelsby and now CMAC to light it up in games like they do in practice.

 

[Hawk_4shur]

I still would love to see some empirical evidence or data about sitting players with two fouls in the 1st half for 10 minutes+. What's the difference if Keegan for example gets foul #3 just before half or at the 17:00 of 2nd half? His worth over those minutes is worth a lot. I simply don't understand it.

I can think of a couple of reasons - without defending them.

1. Concern that a player with 2 fouls in the first half won't play as hard.

2. Desire to make sure they can be in the game in the last 5 minutes.

 

[Ihawkhoops]

Fran is on it. Ball movement, that's the answer. It's not put your best players on the floor who can create their own shot since we don't get jack from the half court. Nobody is losing track of Jbo Fran and Jbo isn't turning into an ankle breaker driver-slasher. Next we have Connor, who is like playing with 4 on offense.

For ball movement to work you need shot makers / creators and outside of Keegan and Kris, there isn't anybody else. I would turn Joe T. loose and tell him wreak as much havoc as he can and shoot it when he gets a good look and kick it out when he draws a double. Joe at least gives us a match up advantage that can possibly create a good look outside of Keegan and Kris driving, which is our best offense given the lack of firepower at other spots on the floor.

I would argue that Keegan, Kris, and Pmac are equivalent to Davis, Davison and Wahl and that Iowa has a better bench, but the results are obviously vastly different. WI has a coach that gets the most out of talent and instills fundamentals. Iowa has a coach who thinks losing in style with meaningless stats is cool.

 

[perryhawk]

C'mon Perry. This is such a dumb and intellectually dishonest take and you know it. Fran doesn't play Kris minutes based on how he's playing that day. He plays Kris based upon who is out with fouls or injuries. Kris has exceeded 20 minutes 4 times in conference all year and 3 of 4 times were because of injuries or foul trouble with Keegan or Rebraca.

The bias is clear with Cmac, Jbo and Pmac. Cmac should not be playing. Jbo and Pmac can look like crap for the better part of a game and play as many minutes as they can supply as they have many times. Fran playing players based on gameday performance is sheer nonsense.

Oh, and we don't need to see Kris in practice. He's been the best or second best player on the floor pretty much every time he's been out there.

Actually it's not a dumb, intellectually dishonest, asinine, or anything of the sort....there is a bias that is prevalent by a those who like to whine and bitch. That is attributing everything to nepotism, blaming everything on Fran even in wins.

Pmac should not be playing? And you say dumb and intellectually dishonest? You position lost any credibility it had right there.

@RocknRollface talks about a textbook example of confirmation bias.....wow, the hypocrisy is off the charts.

I don't think Fran is a perfect coach. My guess/belief is that he could do better with his rotations.......but the guy has won at a high level. He has beaten other really good coaches (in the B10 and elsewhere Izzo-Painter-Bennett-etc) all while using his crazy substitution patterns and with his other faults....but some on here are way smarter than he is!

 

[RomanHawk]

Well done, good response!

I certainly agree that Kris should play more......but I also think, and stated in a different thread, that we've reached the point where PS should be taking the time now being used by Connor. Certainly there is some bias on Fran's behalf in favor of CM.....but OBVIOUSLY Fran knows more than all of us here combined.....he sees them everyday in practice...he knows so much that we don't, that what is a conclusion us fans easily jump to, clearly lacks the knowledge and insight that Fran has.....so the conclusions based on the limited time we see them in games may or may not have validity.

Let's say that the reality is that Fran sees Kris in practice....and that on some days he looks great (a man among boys), but that on other days he's no where close to that. Let's say Fran sees that when Kris is on, you see it right from the start...conversely, when Kris is off his game, you also see it relatively quickly. So during the games Fran uses Kris and when he's off, he plays less minutes. When he's on, he plays more minutes........so what fans see is only when Kris is on and piling up the points and that some games he isn't playing as many minutes...= stupid or stubborn coach....not a coach varying his lineup based on who is playing well.

You are really reaching. Let's simplify this by acknowledging that Kris is more effective on his worst day than a couple getting more minutes are on their best days.

 

[MikeyHawk]

Actually it's not a dumb, intellectually dishonest, asinine, or anything of the sort....there is a bias that is prevalent by a those who like to whine and bitch. That is attributing everything to nepotism, blaming everything on Fran even in wins.

Pmac should not be playing? And you say dumb and intellectually dishonest? You position lost any credibility it had right there.

@RocknRollface talks about a textbook example of confirmation bias.....wow, the hypocrisy is off the charts.

I don't think Fran is a perfect coach. My guess/belief is that he could do better with his rotations.......but the guy has won at a high level. He has beaten other really good coaches (in the B10 and elsewhere Izzo-Painter-Bennett-etc) all while using his crazy substitution patterns and with his other faults....but some on here are way smarter than he is!

Except, it is a discussion regarding how Fran isn't a perfect coach. His rotations and substitutions are an issue. Fran has never been in the Sweet 16. Maybe there are some areas for improvement.
Coach lovers like you are always an interesting dynamic.
Coaches are above being questioned and are always right?

 

[PHawkKenyon]

Thats such an asinine scenario to believe that its not worth addressing as if it were a serious possibility. Thats not at all how basketball works.

You've have laid out a text book confirmation bias argument based on faith rather than evidence.

Besides the obvious fact is Kris two best games were when Fran was forced to play him more minutes.

Most players need to get into a rhythm, especially offensively. So anyone who talks about a player not playing a lot when they have a bad game, ask what the game scenario was that didn't allow him to play well. Was it quick fouls? Multiple mistakes on defense? Not boxing out? Taking multiple bad shots? Those are all things that sometimes factor into a player getting pulled. I was the first to yank a player for multiple "brain farts". So if that is the reason a player doesn't play, I can understand that from a coach's perspective.

 

[mooresville hawk]

That's what Fran told the Press-Citizen. But what he didn't say, of course, is that no matter how well you move the ball, when you have certain lineups on the floor, the opponent only has to guard 2 or 3 or 4 Hawkeyes. So move the ball all you want. It ain't gonna help if you don't have scorers on the floor.

What Fran should have said is that he needs to change the starting lineup and play his best players the most minutes.

That would begin with moving Rebraca and JBo out of the starting lineup and replacing them with Kris Murray and Sandfort. But that ain't how Fran rolls. He and KF see the problems. But they just refuse to take the most obvious steps to solve them.

CMac is constantly left wide open at the three-point line. So I guess that was good ball movement to find an open player. Or is it that the opponent wants CMac to shoot and can't be bothered to guard a guy who's made five shots all year.

Fran and KF enjoy running into that brick wall over and over and over and over and over and over again. Just gotta execute, right, Fran? Just gotta execute, right KF? It would be funny if it weren't so freakin' sad.

You appear to like to run into a brick wall over and over again as well as you post the same thing over and over. I am not saying you are wrong, but you could try to post something different.

 

[mooresville hawk]

I do agree with Fran. Iowa’s offense struggles in the half court set when the ball is not moving, which is the case for most teams. There are times where there is too much dribbling around the perimeter. I also want to see Kris play more minutes, particularly with the starters.

 

[jonesy5960]

Actually it's not a dumb, intellectually dishonest, asinine, or anything of the sort....there is a bias that is prevalent by a those who like to whine and bitch. That is attributing everything to nepotism, blaming everything on Fran even in wins.

Pmac should not be playing? And you say dumb and intellectually dishonest? You position lost any credibility it had right there.

@RocknRollface talks about a textbook example of confirmation bias.....wow, the hypocrisy is off the charts.

I don't think Fran is a perfect coach. My guess/belief is that he could do better with his rotations.......but the guy has won at a high level. He has beaten other really good coaches (in the B10 and elsewhere Izzo-Painter-Bennett-etc) all while using his crazy substitution patterns and with his other faults....but some on here are way smarter than he is!

You're right Perry. It's a complete coincidence that Kris only played well enough to play extended minutes when others were injured or in foul trouble. In every other game where he didn't get extended minutes and there wasn't anyone injured or in foul trouble he just wasn't playing well enough to get the minutes. On the other hand Pmac has played flawlessly in every half of every game and played extensively in each. Brilliant! Got it 👍.

Can you show me where I said Pmac shouldn't be playing now? I must have had a typo that I don't recall.

 

[perryhawk]

Except, it is a discussion regarding how Fran isn't a perfect coach. His rotations and substitutions are an issue. Fran has never been in the Sweet 16. Maybe there are some areas for improvement.
Coach lovers like you are always an interesting dynamic.
Coaches are above being questioned and are always right?

Now that's dumb......how I said Fran wasn't perfect, and you said I'm the type who think they're above being questioned....wow.

 

[perryhawk]

You're right Perry. It's a complete coincidence that Kris only played well enough to play extended minutes when others were injured or in foul trouble. In every other game where he didn't get extended minutes and there wasn't anyone injured or in foul trouble he just wasn't playing well enough to get the minutes. On the other hand Pmac has played flawlessly in every half of every game and played extensively in each. Brilliant! Got it 👍.

Can you show me where I said Pmac shouldn't be playing now? I must have had a typo that I don't recall.

Making things up, doesn't make for a good argument. Aren't you the one that said something about being intellectually dishonest?

 

[perryhawk]

You are really reaching. Let's simplify this by acknowledging that Kris is more effective on his worst day than a couple getting more minutes are on their best days.

And you are roaming way off topic, inventing arguments, when you can't deny that Fran knows more about these guys than you....or anyone of us, as we aren't at practice....but hey, deny the truth and blame others. A tactic that is pretty transparent.

 

[jonesy5960]

Making things up, doesn't make for a good argument. Aren't you the one that said something about being intellectually dishonest?

Sigh... What did I make up Perry?

 

[jellyfish10]

Well done, good response!

I certainly agree that Kris should play more......but I also think, and stated in a different thread, that we've reached the point where PS should be taking the time now being used by Connor. Certainly there is some bias on Fran's behalf in favor of CM.....but OBVIOUSLY Fran knows more than all of us here combined.....he sees them everyday in practice...he knows so much that we don't, that what is a conclusion us fans easily jump to, clearly lacks the knowledge and insight that Fran has.....so the conclusions based on the limited time we see them in games may or may not have validity.

Let's say that the reality is that Fran sees Kris in practice....and that on some days he looks great (a man among boys), but that on other days he's no where close to that. Let's say Fran sees that when Kris is on, you see it right from the start...conversely, when Kris is off his game, you also see it relatively quickly. So during the games Fran uses Kris and when he's off, he plays less minutes. When he's on, he plays more minutes........so what fans see is only when Kris is on and piling up the points and that some games he isn't playing as many minutes...= stupid or stubborn coach....not a coach varying his lineup based on who is playing well.

Please tell me…when is CMac ever on? Do you think he ever lights it up it practice? There simply is little to no justification for him playing much if at all. I’m a Hawk fan and root for Connor but at this point, his role should be relegated to the bench.

 

[SDHawkDoc]

The "sees them every day in practice" is beyond tiresome as a recurring talking point.

Fran in particular, per his public statements, has apparently had some of the all time greatest practice players in NCAA history. Unfortunately it didn't translate well to actual game performance.

 

[RocknRollface]

Most players need to get into a rhythm, especially offensively. So anyone who talks about a player not playing a lot when they have a bad game, ask what the game scenario was that didn't allow him to play well. Was it quick fouls? Multiple mistakes on defense? Not boxing out? Taking multiple bad shots? Those are all things that sometimes factor into a player getting pulled. I was the first to yank a player for multiple "brain farts". So if that is the reason a player doesn't play, I can understand that from a coach's perspective.

I can understand it if its applied evenly. Thats how it should be but that's not really the case here.

And if a coach is going to subtract minutes for mistakes ( which is fine) he should be awarding them based on production.

Mistakes wasn't really Perry's point anyway, he was implying Fran can extrapolate what the results of a players day will be based on the first few minutes and we both know that's not reality.

 

[RocknRollface]

Please tell me…when is CMac ever on? Do you think he ever lights it up it practice? There simply is little to no justification for him playing much if at all. I’m a Hawk fan and root for Connor but at this point, his role should be relegated to the bench.

It doesn't apply to Jbo or Connor.

Thats the beauty of it.

 

[RocknRollface]

He knows it.

Told ya.

He operates on faith.