The Beat Goes On…

[AmericaNeedsMe]

I will add my two cents, his deserved credit for bringing Iowa back from the Lickliter Cliffs is not that relevant today, but it keeps him from being fired.

Todd Lickliter coached at Iowa for 3 seasons and finished 8th, 10th, and 9th in the league. He never finished lower than 10th. Fran McCaffrey has finished 11th ('17-'18).

The "Lickliter cliffs" are vastly overblown folklore. Lickliter wasn't bad enough for long enough to have done any kind of lasting damage to the Iowa program. Lickliter finished 9th his last season, and Fran finished 10th in his first.

Is Fran a better coach than Lickliter was? Certainly. Did Fran McCaffrey ressurect and rebuild from scratch a bottom of the barrel, completely ruined program?

No. That's a children's story complete with monster and hero. Not reality.

 

[iahawks10]

Todd Lickliter coached at Iowa for 3 seasons and finished 8th, 10th, and 9th in the league. He never finished lower than 10th. Fran McCaffrey has finished 11th ('17-'18).

Never finished lower than 10th in an 11 team league. So he never finished last in three years. 👏

 

[AmericaNeedsMe]

Never finished lower than 10th in an 11 team league. So he never finished last in three years. 👏

Exactly.

 

[HawksRule73]

Todd Lickliter coached at Iowa for 3 seasons and finished 8th, 10th, and 9th in the league. He never finished lower than 10th. Fran McCaffrey has finished 11th ('17-'18).

The "Lickliter cliffs" are vastly overblown folklore. Lickliter wasn't bad enough for long enough to have done any kind of lasting damage to the Iowa program. Lickliter finished 9th his last season, and Fran finished 10th in his first.

Is Fran a better coach than Lickliter was? Certainly. Did Fran McCaffrey ressurect and rebuild from scratch a bottom of the barrel, completely ruined program?

No. That's a children's story complete with monster and hero. Not reality.

This is classic revisionist history.

There's more to a program's health than just the W's and L's. Every player of note transferred out because Todd was an awful coach. Even Mr. Hawkeye, Matt Gatens, was set to leave if Todd came back. That's a fact.

And you think attendance is light now? It's a metropolis compared to what Carver looked like in Todd's last year. Butts in the seats MIGHT have avg'd about 3,000 on a good night.

Finally, while Fran's lack of defense drives me freaking insane, if I had my choice, I guess I'd rather lose 99-89 than 49-39.

There was absolutely nothing right with that program when Todd was forced out. And think about it, just how bad must he have been to force Gary to fire him? Gary wouldn't fire anyone.

 

[HawksRule73]

This is what you get with Fran ball.

You have to accept the good with the downright dreadful. It’s incredibly bipolar basketball, yet easily predicted.

I don’t care who’s in the lineup or whatever player rotations get discussed. Player additions/subtractions will also yield the same results—many thrilling wins, head-scratching defeats, and early to mid-March season endings. Rinse and repeat.

As long as Fran is here, you can either accept that, drive yourself crazy, or become indifferent, because with shit defense you’re never going to see anything remotely consistent besides that.

This is pretty much where I'm at.

I'll watch the game when it starts. You can usually tell in the first 5 minutes if Iowa is going to win. When it looks like defense is optional that game, I simply turn it off.

 

[MikeyHawk]

Early in the season the D was surprisingly solid. Now it’s back to baseline.

So far, they are at 128 in defense, which is actually better than the prior two seasons. Improvement!
No Krikke or Patrick should help

 

[BrewHawk]

So far, they are at 128 in defense, which is actually better than the prior two seasons. Improvement!
No Krikke or Patrick should help

Of course, we are just getting into the meat of our schedule and watching that defensive number fall drastically after giving up 116 and 99.

 

[MikeyHawk]

This is classic revisionist history.

There's more to a program's health than just the W's and L's. Every player of note transferred out because Todd was an awful coach. Even Mr. Hawkeye, Matt Gatens, was set to leave if Todd came back. That's a fact.

And you think attendance is light now? It's a metropolis compared to what Carver looked like in Todd's last year. Butts in the seats MIGHT have avg'd about 3,000 on a good night.

Finally, while Fran's lack of defense drives me freaking insane, if I had my choice, I guess I'd rather lose 99-89 than 49-39.

There was absolutely nothing right with that program when Todd was forced out. And think about it, just how bad must he have been to force Gary to fire him? Gary wouldn't fire anyone.

11 Home games - this is tickets sold not actual attendance

3 games over 10,000
Average 8,944
Conference games 8,819 (3)

The ticket floor appears to be around 7,700

Iowa was in the Top 25 of attendance each year up to 2006

It has been in and out of the Top 25 since Fran has been the coach

 

[MikeyHawk]

Of course, we are just getting into the meat of our schedule and watching that defensive number fall drastically after giving up 116 and 99.

True
Some better offensive teams upcoming, a few bad ones as well.

 

[Max_Rebo]

This is classic revisionist history.

There's more to a program's health than just the W's and L's. Every player of note transferred out because Todd was an awful coach. Even Mr. Hawkeye, Matt Gatens, was set to leave if Todd came back. That's a fact.

And you think attendance is light now? It's a metropolis compared to what Carver looked like in Todd's last year. Butts in the seats MIGHT have avg'd about 3,000 on a good night.

Finally, while Fran's lack of defense drives me freaking insane, if I had my choice, I guess I'd rather lose 99-89 than 49-39.

There was absolutely nothing right with that program when Todd was forced out. And think about it, just how bad must he have been to force Gary to fire him? Gary wouldn't fire anyone.

Add to this the way Lickliter burned bridges with Iowa high school recruiting connections. (Bridges that were already scarred by Alford).

The success of any team is based heavily on the culture established around that team. And the program culture under Lickliter was dismal, and getting worse by the month.

 

[LetsGoHawks83]

I am indifferent. It's not going to change. Dont even care about making them making the tourney.

Yep...

I started watching "Fear the walking dead" on Netflix instead of watching Iowa vs. USC. I flipped over a couple times early, but just didn't watch any of the 2nd half.

Just checked the score every once in awhile. Looked like the typical "opposing team has multiple guys with career nice" game for Fran.

Much better entertainment watching a 10 year old series on Netflix and much less frustrating than watching our GARBAGE defense.

 

[fivecardstud14]

Todd Lickliter coached at Iowa for 3 seasons and finished 8th, 10th, and 9th in the league. He never finished lower than 10th. Fran McCaffrey has finished 11th ('17-'18).

The "Lickliter cliffs" are vastly overblown folklore. Lickliter wasn't bad enough for long enough to have done any kind of lasting damage to the Iowa program. Lickliter finished 9th his last season, and Fran finished 10th in his first.

Is Fran a better coach than Lickliter was? Certainly. Did Fran McCaffrey ressurect and rebuild from scratch a bottom of the barrel, completely ruined program?

No. That's a children's story complete with monster and hero. Not reality.

Holy shit. How old are you? Your post reads like you were not around during the Lickliter years.

 

[90-0]

To be fair our fans love to talk down to “little brother “ while they pack the arena and have a good chance to make the Final 4.t

That little brother thing is retarded.

 

[90-0]

Does reality make you ill too?

Because ISU's current football coach is 2-6 vs Iowa

That's kind of irrelevant in the grand scheme of things. It's one game a year. Has no bearing on conference championships and potential playoff births

 

[Fan In Black]

That's kind of irrelevant in the grand scheme of things. It's one game a year. Has no bearing on conference championships and potential playoff births

define grand scheme. Is it 1 year ? 5 years? 10 years? 25 years? 50 years? 100 years?

 

[90-0]

define grand scheme. Is it 1 year ? 5 years? 10 years? 25 years? 50 years? 100 years?

National landscape.

 

[Zhawk44]

Todd Lickliter coached at Iowa for 3 seasons and finished 8th, 10th, and 9th in the league. He never finished lower than 10th. Fran McCaffrey has finished 11th ('17-'18).

The "Lickliter cliffs" are vastly overblown folklore. Lickliter wasn't bad enough for long enough to have done any kind of lasting damage to the Iowa program. Lickliter finished 9th his last season, and Fran finished 10th in his first.

Is Fran a better coach than Lickliter was? Certainly. Did Fran McCaffrey ressurect and rebuild from scratch a bottom of the barrel, completely ruined program?

No. That's a children's story complete with monster and hero. Not reality.

Iowa was one of the worst power 5 programs in the country when Fran took over. It was a rebuild from the ground up. Get real.

 

[AmericaNeedsMe]

Iowa was one of the worst power 5 programs in the country when Fran took over. It was a rebuild from the ground up. Get real.

Absolutely ridiculous.

 

[kceasthawk]

Does that include BTT? I think he's around 3 games under 0.500 in BTT play and around 6-12 in NCAA play. He's about as close to a Coin Flip coach and you will get vs Big10 opponents. The Fran Fade for February is not really a thing, but March's haven't been kind outside the lone BTT title.

He's not terrible and he won't be fired, but it looks like his contract extension is not in the Bank yet.

Nor should it be.......

 

[kceasthawk]

Watching Iowa State play defense, rebound and score tonight is making me ill. They play a totally different sport than Fran ball.

Look at their roster compared to ours.......

 

[kceasthawk]

Todd Lickliter coached at Iowa for 3 seasons and finished 8th, 10th, and 9th in the league. He never finished lower than 10th. Fran McCaffrey has finished 11th ('17-'18).

The "Lickliter cliffs" are vastly overblown folklore. Lickliter wasn't bad enough for long enough to have done any kind of lasting damage to the Iowa program. Lickliter finished 9th his last season, and Fran finished 10th in his first.

Is Fran a better coach than Lickliter was? Certainly. Did Fran McCaffrey ressurect and rebuild from scratch a bottom of the barrel, completely ruined program?

No. That's a children's story complete with monster and hero. Not reality.

And he "coached" during the games like he was sleep walking. I've NEVER see a less interested coach on the sideline. That alone should have gotten him run. That and his leading scorer transferring out after EVERY season, or is that a "childrens story" as well? The fact that Matt Gatens AND his Dad Mike, (two Hawks to their very core), went to the Athletic director and let him know he was leaving as well if Lick returned, says it all. You can't have your best players leave after every season unless there is a real disconnect between the coach and the players.

 

[AmericaNeedsMe]

And he "coached" during the games like he was sleep walking. I've NEVER see a less interested coach on the sideline. That alone should have gotten him run. That and his leading scorer transferring out after EVERY season, or is that a "childrens story" as well? The fact that Matt Gatens AND his Dad Mike, (two Hawks to their very core), went to the Athletic director and let him know he was leaving as well if Lick returned, says it all. You can't have your best players leave after every season unless there is a real disconnect between the coach and the players.

Yes. It's a children's story, and Todd Lickliter is the boogie man.

The simple truth is that he wasn't here long enough nor was he ever bad enough to -- as one idiot just claimed here -- make Iowa "one of the worst power 5 programs in the country."

Lick sucked for 3 seasons. He was fired. Fran took over and built his own thing. It wasn't some heroic resurrection from the depths of college basketball.

FFS.

It's so weird how so many people in our fan base cling to the boogie man story as if their very lives depended on it.

 

[Zhawk44]

Yes. It's a children's story, and Todd Lickliter is the boogie man.

The simple truth is that he wasn't here long enough nor was he ever bad enough to -- as one idiot just claimed here -- make Iowa "one of the worst power 5 programs in the country."

Lick sucked for 3 seasons. He was fired. Fran took over and built his own thing. It wasn't some heroic resurrection from the depths of college basketball.

FFS.

It's so weird how so many people in our fan base cling to the boogie man story as if their very lives depended on it.

You're the idiot in this story. It was absolutely true.

 

[BrotherHawkeye]

Yes. It's a children's story, and Todd Lickliter is the boogie man.

The simple truth is that he wasn't here long enough nor was he ever bad enough to -- as one idiot just claimed here -- make Iowa "one of the worst power 5 programs in the country."

Lick sucked for 3 seasons. He was fired. Fran took over and built his own thing. It wasn't some heroic resurrection from the depths of college basketball.

FFS.

It's so weird how so many people in our fan base cling to the boogie man story as if their very lives depended on it.

Your premise is wrong. You responded to my post on this topic. My point was the Lickliter took Iowa basketball to the edge of the cliff. He might have not taken the program over the edge yet, but another year or two, the program would have been on the rocks below. The data all supports that was going to happen. Heck, even do nothing Barta realized that. Fran did pull the program away from the cliff and kept them from going over. For that he deserves credit, but that credit has been largely used up 14-15 years later. They aren't close to the cliff anymore, and they're at a point under Fran where they won't go back there, but they haven't climbed very high up the mountain either.

 

[AmericaNeedsMe]

You're the idiot in this story. It was absolutely true.

It's absolutely ridiculous.

 

[Buffalo43]

Hey boys i got sort of kicked out of the womens nebraska game thread so how is it going?

 

[Buffalo43]

Soooo how about Gophers beating Michigan

 

[hawkirugged17]

And he "coached" during the games like he was sleep walking. I've NEVER see a less interested coach on the sideline. That alone should have gotten him run. That and his leading scorer transferring out after EVERY season, or is that a "childrens story" as well? The fact that Matt Gatens AND his Dad Mike, (two Hawks to their very core), went to the Athletic director and let him know he was leaving as well if Lick returned, says it all. You can't have your best players leave after every season unless there is a real disconnect between the coach and the players.

 

[acuhawk]

Of course, we are just getting into the meat of our schedule and watching that defensive number fall drastically after giving up 116 and 99.

Yep I'm sure the sisters of the poor non-conference scheduled helped our defensive ratings although I think we do put more effort on defense. They just can't sustain it for the full shot clock. Edited to add because I don't think they really know how to rather than just an effort problem

 

[BrewHawk]

Yep I'm sure the sisters of the poor non-conference scheduled helped our defensive ratings although I think we do put more effort on defense. They just can't sustain it for the full shot clock.

It would help if they knew what they were doing in giving all that effort.

I feel that Josh and Drew are the only ones who really know how to play D.

The rest end up being horribly out of position.