I was young but remember seeing somewhat violent protest over the Vietnam war. Much like the Jan 6'ers except more flag burning and widespread.
HBOT posters over age 50: Is this the craziest time period you’ve lived through?
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I'm sure I will get pasted for this but:
2 Timothy 3:1-5-"But know this, that in the last days critical times hard to deal with will be here. 2 For men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, haughty, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, disloyal, 3 having no natural affection, not open to any agreement, slanderers, without self-control, fierce, without love of goodness, 4 betrayers, headstrong, puffed up with pride, lovers of pleasures rather than lovers of God, 5 having an appearance of godliness but proving false to its power;
2 Timothy 3:13-"But wicked men and impostors will advance from bad to worse, misleading and being misled.
You may argue but it's hard to disagree with alot of those personality traits we see in the world today.
2 Timothy 3:1-5-"But know this, that in the last days critical times hard to deal with will be here. 2 For men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, haughty, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, disloyal, 3 having no natural affection, not open to any agreement, slanderers, without self-control, fierce, without love of goodness, 4 betrayers, headstrong, puffed up with pride, lovers of pleasures rather than lovers of God, 5 having an appearance of godliness but proving false to its power;
2 Timothy 3:13-"But wicked men and impostors will advance from bad to worse, misleading and being misled.
You may argue but it's hard to disagree with alot of those personality traits we see in the world today.
Military bases don't constitute an empire. We have no power over the domestic situations in those countries and many of those bases only exist with the permission of the host nation. Which means if the host nation told us to leave, we would.
That is super-power stuff for the purpose of force projection. One of the things that makes us the most powerful superpower in the history of the world isn't just size of our military or technology or even training, it's that our force projection is unmatched. Maybe the British empire came close, but no other empire in history could fight and win a war on the other side of the world.
You are talking about ARGUING.
For starters, the DRAFT.
Your 18 year old is living at home and next thing you know he's in a jungle across the world fighting in a war.
2.2m MILLION were drafted. MILLION.
58k or so didn't make it back home. Many missing. Many wounded. Many with severe PTSD. Haven't had a war this bad since.
You had way more protests during the time.
Kent State?
Jackson State?
I could keep going but I'm too busy at work. LOL
I think we as a country hated the USSR, controlled by Russia, and what it stood for in the world and how it treated personal freedoms and liberties. Whether any person hated any particular individual person, mileage may vary.
The biggest change in the last 25 years is the FOX propaganda machine that has indoctrinated so many individuals. Also I truly do think there is an outside (russian) propoganda machine that is influencing a lot of right wing positioning.
Mostly we hated them because they were a rival superpower. Lots of countries crack down on personal freedoms and we either ignore it or if the government is pro-america enough we prop them up.
It was all about a rivalry with the USSR.
You got a few like me that are willing to be open. Can I say the economy did well under Trump in the 1st term, yes. At the same point I can say we juiced the economy with the tax cuts that will ultimately cost much more in the long game. The biggest issue with Trump and the economy is we are already coming in at high valuations.
As to immigration, I am diametrically opposed. Yes I want legal immigration, with a system that welcomes immigrants and others looking for a better life.
I am fully against an administration wanting to punish and fully weed out any opposition in all dept. so they can effectively do whatever they want. Ultimately I think we will survive his presidency, but he has hollowed out a lot of the norms. The supreme court is a mess in its current form, and likely can't get fixed unless you add justices or wait 25-30 years. By the end of Trumps term there will be 4 far right wing justices in their 50's.
As to timeframes, I think we tend to forget the divisions of the past. I do think whether church or local communities, there was much more social interaction, but you still had ostracized groups, those groups are just changing.
Perhaps semantics, but I think we hated them not because it was a rivalry, but because the posed an existential threat our country and national/global objectives. Some other country somewhere can be awful to its citizens and other countries but they do not threaten those objectives.
The world got crazy - and connected - via the creation of smartphones/FB/X… aka social media. Everything gets amplified (good or bad) … Covid was a game changer for many reasons … I think it altered many mindsets while we sat in isolation for X number of years. Technology advancements are 100-fold - changing how and when we interact … how we live … how we work … Today’s connected world continues to change us …
Well that part is unfair. I think many were like me in 2017; we viewed Trump as an unserious clown, but were optimistic that when he actually won he would comprehend the gravity of the position and rise to the occasion. Certainly we didn't expect him to be the President we wanted, but we expected he would listen to the experts and treat the Presidency seriously. Unfortunately, he did not.
But when he lost in 2020 he went to a completely different level. People try to downplay it, but he absolutely tried to overturn the results of our election - and convinced millions of otherwise good Americans that it should happen. He caused the assault on our Capitol, and now he has pardoned those who tried to violently upend our government. He now is completely consumed with vengeance, and it colors his every move.
There comes a point where there can be no forgiveness. He didn't just cross that line; he sprinted past it while flipping it off. It no longer matters what stances he may take or what policy he may try to enact - it all pales to the vulgarity and the threat to Democracy. He does not deserve to be treated with an open-mind.
I think technology amplifies everything. I also believe the media tries to divide. I think that gets more viewers and readers than being moderate and simply reporting. Everyone has to have a take on everything. Technology enables us to communicate in different ways than in the past. It clearly enables people to be more brash and divisive than in person conversation. Just look at the ways people talk to each other on here. I bet most people, in person, would be much kinder, patient, and respectful than they are on here. All this creates more drama and makes everything seem more serious. We have endured bigger challenges as a nation and we will have bigger challenges in the future.
I'd say the division started heavy in the 90s. You had people like Limbaugh going on their regular rants about "the liberals" and "the left" with a bunch of people tuning in. Very strong, deliberate US vs Them messaging. Conservative media was ramping up in the mid 90s with Faux News launching. I remember hearing all about how disastrous everything in America was because of Bill Clinton. Lots of "Don't blame me, I voted for bush" bumper stickers. All while the country was doing incredibly well. Then we had the 2000 election where the democrats had the audacity to ask for a recount (can you imagine?) in a closely contested single state. I still remember all of the jokes/memes about hanging chads. I had co-workers with $.99 dollar bills ("not worth a dollar") that had Al Gore's face and references to "Gorons".
The 2000 Bush victory was promptly rubbed in the faces of democrats, similar to now. Smug republicans gloating about their victory and how all of America was on their side, they have now vanquished the democrats for good blah blah blah. Sound familiar?
Complaints about gas prices were laughed at. "What, you can't afford $4/gallon? You are not entitled to cheap gas, libtard"
After 9/11, republicans bragging about how they knew we were going to war with a republican in office. "We aint gonna mess around like Clinton just shooting some missiles at some tents. Yeeehaaw". This brought us to the Iraq and Afghanistan wars started by the party of peace.
One of the best parts of the recent election was hearing republicans go after democrats over gas prices and wars.
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I have long blamed Rush Limbaugh for a lot of this. He created the Sean Hannity's and others, and he created the culture of hate on the Right. He opened the door for outlets like FOX; because while many complain that MSM is "biased" FOX decided to be full-blown agenda driven, and there is a big difference.
And, btw, the death of newspapers has contributed greatly to this.
It was through a child eyes but the violence of the sixties/seventies was terrifying. Kennedy, Malcolm X, MLK, democratic convention, college campuses, weather underground, SLA, black panthers. Right now a lot of rhetoric, will we see the violence?
Probably not.
I lived through the 60s, though not as an adult, but they were pretty whack in terms of their revolutionary quality on so many levels.
And i lived through the early aughts, which were not too good.
I lived through the 60s, though not as an adult, but they were pretty whack in terms of their revolutionary quality on so many levels.
And i lived through the early aughts, which were not too good.
Not to be a jerk, but "will we see violence?" January 6th, the attempt on Trump's life, the Vegas shooter/killer, etc., just for starters.
Actually, if you want to assign blame for that, the rightful owner is probably Lee Atwater.
I'm not some big Trumper, not even close.
With that said, some of you thinking the Trump era is worse than the Vietnam war/era is f'n LAUGHABLE.
I get it, you hate the man.
But goodness gracias wake the F up.
With that said, some of you thinking the Trump era is worse than the Vietnam war/era is f'n LAUGHABLE.
I get it, you hate the man.
But goodness gracias wake the F up.
Aren't you in your late 40s? You did not live through the vietnam and neither did I. Not sure how you can make that claim.
Yes, late 40's.
My father was there, my uncle was there. I've talked with many veterans.
Ever since I was a kid I always found a lot of interest in the Vietnam War since my dad was there.
I've read numerous books, watched numerous documentaries, etc.
I've studied the time a lot.
To compare it to today is a joke.
you don't necessarily need a war for shit to be crazy. Wars are generally provoked in some manner, ie more logical. Right now we can't even agree on the truth because our weak minded fools are manipulated by social media algorithms. Citizens united put a price tag on the truth.
Well, I thought the spirit of the OP was which period is craziest, not which sucked the most or cost the most US lives. In any event, people will think what they think.
I'm 74. It is hard to say today is more divisive than the mid 60' to the mid 70's. We lived through inflation, war, draft, civil rights, women's movement, POTUS impeachment threats, assassinations, an much more.
I was on campus in Iowa City the spring of 1970. I was drafted to serve when young people despised it and old people didn't understand. I saw the father of a girl I was seeing call her a slut/bitch when he found out she was on birth control pills. An uncle of mine told me Helen Reddy should deported.
I could go on, but I won't. I think what is different now that those turbulent times back then is the fear. The fear that what was just the normal cultural war back and forth in the country as the pendulum swings from one direction to the next, has now become the fear that the pendulum is being forced to swing backwards in an unnatural way.
I was on campus in Iowa City the spring of 1970. I was drafted to serve when young people despised it and old people didn't understand. I saw the father of a girl I was seeing call her a slut/bitch when he found out she was on birth control pills. An uncle of mine told me Helen Reddy should deported.
I could go on, but I won't. I think what is different now that those turbulent times back then is the fear. The fear that what was just the normal cultural war back and forth in the country as the pendulum swings from one direction to the next, has now become the fear that the pendulum is being forced to swing backwards in an unnatural way.
There’s something unique about today’s division. It’s fueled by social media and digital platforms like Twitter, TikTok, etc. There’s a whole Lotta people that think they’re much smarter than they are simply because they have a big microphone.
I’ve always been a believer that technology can and should make our world better. But I think the explosion of social media is destroying us culturally. We have a generation perhaps going on two generations that are largely incapable of healthy organic communication. It’s no coincidence that mental illness is at an all-time high among people under 30. People are addicted to their smart devices in a way that’s destroying their humanity.
The arguments and protest over Vietnam we very contentious, no doubt. But they were rooted in something important and meaningful. Today, people just like to argue to hear themselves argue. Look at this board people start threads over the most inane bullshit just because they want to yell at the other side. I think there’s some truth to the idea that extended periods of prosperity make people soft and spoiled, we’re living in it right now.
I’ve always been a believer that technology can and should make our world better. But I think the explosion of social media is destroying us culturally. We have a generation perhaps going on two generations that are largely incapable of healthy organic communication. It’s no coincidence that mental illness is at an all-time high among people under 30. People are addicted to their smart devices in a way that’s destroying their humanity.
The arguments and protest over Vietnam we very contentious, no doubt. But they were rooted in something important and meaningful. Today, people just like to argue to hear themselves argue. Look at this board people start threads over the most inane bullshit just because they want to yell at the other side. I think there’s some truth to the idea that extended periods of prosperity make people soft and spoiled, we’re living in it right now.
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it's crazy good times! best since reagan. very exciting times and I am thrilled to be a part of it.
I also think the turbulence of the 60's & 70's was viewed by much of the country as an inevitable foundational change to our country as we cast-off old ways of thinking, primarily as a New Generation took control of our culture. But we all still viewed the country, and our democracy, as stable.
Today I believe tens of millions of us no longer take our democracy for granted. We do fear the normal peaceful transition of power is something that may no longer be a foregone conclusion, nor is the expectation that we will all abide by our elections and laws. There is a growing attitude that if elections do not provide the results you want, it is okay to fight to ignore those results. This is the most chilling change, to me.
Having a President without a brain for past 4 years was crazy.
What's even worse is Jill and the interns were running the White House. Some of the interns even tried to forgive some of their own student debt.
Underrated point here. We're tearing ourselves apart over mostly low meaning items.
It's been hilarious to see people take the attitude that everything is going to change now that Trump is back in power.
We're completely overvaluing the effect that federal politics has on our day to day lives. (including the economy)
And we're doing so on the basis of hating the other team on what are mostly culture war issues. It's really silly.
Maybe, but with 24/7/365 social media and the dawn of AI my guess is we haven’t seen nothing yet.
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