Here Lies KJ
- Thread starter vhsalum
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I seriously have no idea whether to laugh at the utter ridiculousness of that program or bemoan the loss of a great rivalry.
You got my hopes up reading this thread title that they fired him. He shouldn't last the season IMO. Tag Paulson as an interim.
Its a damn shame what has happened to that program. It makes me angry and Im not even a ISU fan.
You do realize if its not FB or BB Jamie does not give a f?
I know they are not at full strength but it should not matter against the teams they've been wrestling. Ridiculous
Be careful what you wish for. Us Detroit Tigers fans complained about Leyland and ended up with Ausmus. If they ever decide to show KJ the door I would MAKE SURE they have a guaranteed, game changing hire before doing so. I remain unconvinced that the sure fire better coaches are willing and able to take the job!
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Why? Serious question. Why do they have to be carefull? He is shitting the bed. Any hire would be an improvement.
I worry about the sport of wrestling and an administration letting a program like that fall. And I dont understand the carefull what you wish for comment from MSU.
I disagree with you. I have argued this in enough threads that I don't want to get yelled at for doing it again. I will simply say that I don't think the current ISU program would do any better with other than a few select HC's that already have better jobs. He has consistently finished top 15(far from "shitting the bed") I know many have much higher expectations for ISU, but there are a list of things(that I won't get into) that keep them from being what they used to be and KJ is actually a minor one on that list.
No he's not he is a major reason along with an AD who could give a f.Bad combination.
Thats cool. Agree to disagree. I think there are plenty of coaches that could do a much better job. I stand by my bed pooper comment
Thats cool. Agree to disagree. I think there are plenty of coaches that could do a much better job. I stand by my bed pooper comment
No worries. I understand why many expect ISU to still be at or near the top. I just don't consider them that type of program any more for a slew of reasons, least of them being KJ. I truly believe they would need a monumental hire to make substantial improvement and a.)I don't see them pursuing/paying someone what it would take and b.)I don't see that type of monumental hire wanting to go there, and if he did, I don't see him staying long enough to matter.
You don't think ISU has the resources/support to compete with the likes of Missouri and Virginia Tech?
I think your point might be correct that it would take the right coach to get back into the top 5. But if you make a change and fail, what is the worst case scenario. I can't see ISU being much worse than where they are now. They can be fine with where they are, borderline top 15 team, or they can try to improve. If they make a change and fail the worst case is they're probably still a borderline top 15 team.
The only way ISU could be worse after firing KJ, would be to bring Minkel out of retirement.
I'd like to see the other more important things too. ISU has a very long and proud history of wrestling excellence. They should NEVER settle for finishing around 15th.
Im no Clone fan but come on ISU get your shat together . UNI is a more respected program now.
"Top 15" in wrestling is not impressive. And it is especially unimpressive from one of the few schools with the resources to win a national championship.
Top 15 is fuzzy math, anyway. You could go another direction and say "Not Top 10." Being an 11th-ish to 15th-ish program at ISU is horribly underachieving.
Seems like this has been pointed out to MSU before.
They've had better than average recruiting nearly every year since KJ took over. It's just the development that has doomed ISU fans. So I think you can improve the program with the right HC. While we all agree the commitment from the AD is questionable... is THAT the thing holding them back?
The fan support has evaporated to a really small group. But there is no doubt in my mind a successful program would bring fans back.
KJ isn't getting canned, tho. Pollard has his hands full hiring a new football coach every 3-4 years. As long as JacKson can graduate his kids, have a few AAs every so often and keep the majority of the team out of jail... he's got job security.
Honestly, I am fine with agreeing to disagree. I have listed my reasoning on multiple threads and don't want to end up in the same argument with the same people while the same 2 or 3 guys snipe me for it.
What matters is Iowa actually has 2 of the best coaches in the country and have seemed to turn the corner recently in recruiting. Regardless of my arguments I will gladly concede that KJ is far, far behind the Brands combo!
What matters is Iowa actually has 2 of the best coaches in the country and have seemed to turn the corner recently in recruiting. Regardless of my arguments I will gladly concede that KJ is far, far behind the Brands combo!
I have never sniped at you, in fact it is the first time I have replied to you. I was, and still am hoping you provide your list of reasons.
As I said, I don't feel like going down argument road on this topic again. But, you have been very civil so I will tell you to use the search with keywords Msu158, Kevin Jackson, KJ, ISU and Iowa State. You may need to mix the order or leave a word or 2 out, but you should find a multitude of posts on the subject.
Went back and looked. You blamed a losing recruiting war and the advance of OTHER programs. That's the point. It certainly seems that money isn't a problem (upgraded facilities, RTC), and they seem to be getting decent recruits, even in-state. KJ/ISU shouldn't be CONSISTENTLY behind Michigan, Nebraska, Mizzou, VTech and Illinois.
He absolutely does not develop his talent well, and has proven he doesn't manage it well. One look at how he wastes redshirts is a big indicator. So while he may have a plan, it certainly seems like he's throwing ish at the wall and, "WOW, look at that Kyven Gadson National Champ!"
And are you now going to tell me that he should be losing duals and potentially being outplaced and falling behind the likes of NDSU and SDSU (which seems more and more like a possibility)?
Simply put, Cael leaving was at the worst time possible for ISU. Not only did it put the program behind the 8ball but it happened when a major shift in College wrestling was occurring. Teams like Nebraska were benefiting from Burroughs and Illinois from the Perry hire. I am sorry, but I absolutely believe being the 2nd option in a small state that is no longer perceived nationally as the wrestling Mecca has killed ISU and was inevitably why Sanderson left. He knew he couldnt out recruit Brands there, but look at what he did almost immediately at a hotbed like PSU.
Again, I don't want to get bogged down in this argument. This topic is almost on par with politics. I don't see changing anyone's mind and many people seem to get super fired up over it. I simply believe teams like PSU, OKState, Iowa, tOSU, Cornell and still Minnie(even with recent controversy)will remain significantly ahead of them for a slew of reasons and another 10 or so teams like Missouri, VTech and Michigan have significantly increased their appeal. ISU is fighting that group for 7-15th and I honestly don't see anyone short of a Young huge name like Burroughs or an established name like Terry changing that(don't see any way either happens).
Finally, even though both Dakotas and Wyominghave made significant strides(very good coaches), they are beating a depleted early season roster. They will not be placing ahead of ISU come tourney time.
Again, I don't want to get bogged down in this argument. This topic is almost on par with politics. I don't see changing anyone's mind and many people seem to get super fired up over it. I simply believe teams like PSU, OKState, Iowa, tOSU, Cornell and still Minnie(even with recent controversy)will remain significantly ahead of them for a slew of reasons and another 10 or so teams like Missouri, VTech and Michigan have significantly increased their appeal. ISU is fighting that group for 7-15th and I honestly don't see anyone short of a Young huge name like Burroughs or an established name like Terry changing that(don't see any way either happens).
Finally, even though both Dakotas and Wyominghave made significant strides(very good coaches), they are beating a depleted early season roster. They will not be placing ahead of ISU come tourney time.
I will bet you that at least one of Wyo, NDSU, or SDSU places ahead of ISU this year at nationals. Earl won't AA again, Spoon won't AA again, Downey will if healthy, but likely 5-8. Won't take much from one of those teams to beat ISU this year.
Fair enough MSU158. Here's where I hope to change your mind - this is as good as KJ will ever be. He SHOULD lose his job because while the reputation isn't great (which is his fault), the resources are available.
Look at a team like Princeton. A literal wasteland, that now, and in the near future could challenge Cornell (a perennial top 6 program). We place too much emphasis on a coach's athletic achievement. If you put a young and/or energetic coach in that position and ISU is climbing that ladder. Where they could place themselves in the top 6 every 3-4 years AT LEAST.
Let's talk about his ability as a coach. Do you think he's good one at developing better wrestlers? I really don't. Do you think he is a good manager of careers? I really don't. He's wasted multiple redshirts, throws guys in unprepared (think wrong weight class) and they certainly are losing to lesser programs.
Look at a team like Princeton. A literal wasteland, that now, and in the near future could challenge Cornell (a perennial top 6 program). We place too much emphasis on a coach's athletic achievement. If you put a young and/or energetic coach in that position and ISU is climbing that ladder. Where they could place themselves in the top 6 every 3-4 years AT LEAST.
Let's talk about his ability as a coach. Do you think he's good one at developing better wrestlers? I really don't. Do you think he is a good manager of careers? I really don't. He's wasted multiple redshirts, throws guys in unprepared (think wrong weight class) and they certainly are losing to lesser programs.
Are you using Hall's loss to Montoya as a benchmark? If so,remember Montoya took 5th last year and showed considerable improvement throughout the year. Also, Hall has proven to be at his best in March and made it to the R12 the only time he didn't place. I have seen nothing to indicate he isn't firmly in the top 8. As far as Weatherspoon goes, it is truly hard to gauge if his placing was a fluke. But with Martin, Nickal, Jackson and Walters all gone, even the addition of Jordan and Valencia doesn't make this weight as tough as it was last year.
I still see them scoring enough to crack the top 15 and Meredith will need to make the finals again for any of those teams to have a chance to finish ahead of ISU when it counts.
Basing Hall on the fact that he has never been better than 7th or 8th. Add Tomasello, Brock, Gross to the weight, and I don't think he places.
Spoon is a top 15 guy. NCAAs last year was an anomaly and you can already see that from his results this year.
Give me one AA or less for them and at least one of the above schools to place higher than them.
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