Hull's Feenstra.....LET FARMERS POLLUTE...BUT BOYCOTT DES MOINES!

[joelbc1]

Leave it to the Ioway Legislature to always amuse. Hull's representative to the Ioway House, Randy Feenstra has publicly announced that because the Des Moines Waterworks (not a political body) has decided to sue Sac, Buena Vista and Calhoun counties for polluting DSMs drinking water with nitrates (adding an additional $7k/daily to the bill its customers pay for their water), NW Iowa should "boycott" all activities in and around Des Moines, Amazing!
This politician is seeking a political action against a non-political body because farmer's continue to pollute "we the peoples" water. Now, I understand where Feenstra comes from.I am half Dutch and I was born and raised in a very Dutch dominated community. (I have since liberated myself and moved away!) Let me say one thing about Feenstra's thought process. I know how Dutch folks think...and I know a bit about how farmers think. I will say, based on what I know of these groups, if something like this (polluting water and therefore adding costs) was happening to this , they would be the FIRST in line demanding the problem be remedied ASAP and demanding some sort of compensation to offset their expenses.
What I think Feenstra should be advocating is that his legislature properly fund the DNR so water can be properly monitered and solutions to the dumping of illegal amounts of nitrates/chemicals into Iowa's waterways can be corrected. Also, perhaps the Ioway Legislature (aka: Farmer's Incorporated), revisit and rewrite the rules for preserving Iowa's wetlands. Too much farmland has been converted from wetlands to tillable acres. This downside of this is that there are no longer the "natural" barriers in place to purge the nitrates/chemical from entry into Iowa's waterways. This problem is not only an Iowa issue......The "dead zone" in the Mississippi delta/Gulf region keeps expanding....polluted with soil and chemical runoffs from upstream.
This problem is HUGE. Clean air and clean water is far and away a higher priority than lower taxes for rich or retireds.

 

[rocketclone]

Totally agree with the guy. I wish all of iowa would do this and let's see how long Des Moines and the burbs last. One good thing that would come out of it the businesses would not have to fertilize their lawns because no one would be around.

 

[Tiger_Hawk]

Yeah, let's all pollute and boycott DM to prove a point
Posted from Rivals Mobile

 

[TunzaHawk]

I bet Iowa's urban centers are really scared now. There is a night and day difference in the economic development of Des Moines and other large Iowa cities compared to rural Iowa. It's a shallow threat. Clean water is a little more important than Mr. Feenstra. I supposed he would like to give back the highway 20 money to make it harder for those NW Iowans to spend their $ in Des Moines.

 

[ClarindaA's]

Originally posted by rocketclone:
Totally agree with the guy. I wish all of iowa would do this and let's see how long Des Moines and the burbs last. One good thing that would come out of it the businesses would not have to fertilize their lawns because no one would be around.

Jesus Christ you're an idiot. The farm lobby is gonna promote pollution, cancer causing water, and you're gonna back them. Dipshit
Posted from Rivals Mobile

 

[hawkssox1]

Originally posted by ClarindaA's:

Originally posted by rocketclone:
Totally agree with the guy. I wish all of iowa would do this and let's see how long Des Moines and the burbs last. One good thing that would come out of it the businesses would not have to fertilize their lawns because no one would be around.

Jesus Christ you're an idiot. The farm lobby is gonna promote pollution, cancer causing water, and you're gonna back them. Dipshit

Posted from Rivals Mobile

+1

 

[rocketclone]

Originally posted by ClarindaA's:

Originally posted by rocketclone:
Totally agree with the guy. I wish all of iowa would do this and let's see how long Des Moines and the burbs last. One good thing that would come out of it the businesses would not have to fertilize their lawns because no one would be around.

Jesus Christ you're an idiot. The farm lobby is gonna promote pollution, cancer causing water, and you're gonna back them. Dipshit
Posted from Rivals Mobile

Off your meds again chicken little? Oh my we are all going to burn up soon. You libs are a very unhappy bunch, has to be a terrible way to live your life. Here is a tissue.

 

[rocketclone]

Originally posted by TunzaHawk:
I bet Iowa's urban centers are really scared now. There is a night and day difference in the economic development of Des Moines and other large Iowa cities compared to rural Iowa. It's a shallow threat. Clean water is a little more important than Mr. Feenstra. I supposed he would like to give back the highway 20 money to make it harder for those NW Iowans to spend their $ in Des Moines.

No they would be going to sioux city. I would love to see them pull all the state tournaments out of DM. We are talking DM not all urban centers. Move the state fair as well.

sounds like you don't need people from outside of DM to come there so you should survive.

 

[ClarindaA's]

Originally posted by rocketclone:

Originally posted by ClarindaA's:

Originally posted by rocketclone:


Totally agree with the guy. I wish all of iowa would do this and let's see how long Des Moines and the burbs last. One good thing that would come out of it the businesses would not have to fertilize their lawns because no one would be around.

Jesus Christ you're an idiot. The farm lobby is gonna promote pollution, cancer causing water, and you're gonna back them. Dipshit

Posted from Rivals Mobile

Off your meds again chicken little? Oh my we are all going to burn up soon. You libs are a very unhappy bunch, has to be a terrible way to live your life. Here is a tissue.

I'm not on meds, I'm not a liberal. I'm logical, an outdoorsman, and person who cares about out health and how it relates to the environment. You're claiming to be a conservative, personal responsibility and all, yet in another thread, blamed the programs pushing ethanol for farmers farming poor ground and using all the chemicals. It's greed dude. Think logically, without partisan blinders on.
Posted from Rivals Mobile

 

[rocketclone]

Well join the club Clarinda. I have give more time and money to groups that build habitat than most. Around 2000 bucks per year and lots of time.

Think about it, ethanol has pushed corn prices up and selling their bales of stocks off has also caused them to use more fertilizer. Quit subsidizing that stuff and put the money in crp.

You can't just use a base that it is just greed. There are is a lot more that goes into it. They play games with farmers as well. Grain embargo is one i can think of.

The farmers have had good prices for what? 2 maybe 3 years so ya they are probably going to get greedy..

They need to get some land out of production to get corn prices up instead of some of the other games they are playing.

Guess what it probably won't happen because politicians on both sides like cheap food because people don't bitch about it.

You can't say just greed, not that simple.

 

[timinatoria]

Originally posted by rocketclone:

Originally posted by TunzaHawk:
I bet Iowa's urban centers are really scared now.  There is a night and day difference in the economic development of Des Moines and other large Iowa cities compared to rural Iowa.  It's a shallow threat. Clean water is a little more important than Mr. Feenstra.  I supposed he would like to give back the highway 20 money to make it harder for those NW Iowans to spend their $ in Des Moines. 

No they would be going to sioux city.  I would love to see them pull all the state tournaments out of DM.  We are talking DM not all urban centers.  Move the state fair as well.

sounds like you don't need people from outside of DM to come there so you should survive.

Why don't they already go to Sioux City then?

And 'move' the state fair? Really?
Posted from Rivals Mobile

 

[rocketclone]

Well according to one poster it sounds like people who live outside of Des Moines metro really aren't needed to help out the economy there. I think Des Moines has shown they aren't interested in rural iowa so why should the fair stay there. Put it somewhere where they appreciate the farmer.

People are going to sioux city now, so they are moving that direction.

Filling a suit that goes nowhere except paying the attorneys a bunch of money wasn't the way to handle this.

 

[ClarindaA's]

Rocket, no one put a gun to the head of a farmer and made them tile, rip out hedgerows, convert pasture to crop.....it is free will....lead by greed...followed with not a clue about supply and demand.
Posted from Rivals Mobile

 

[ClarindaA's]

Also, no one down here balls their stalks, the get chipped up in the combine and shit back our into the field. Are you talking about guys cutting silage?
Posted from Rivals Mobile

 

[hawkssox1]

Originally posted by rocketclone:

Originally posted by TunzaHawk:
I bet Iowa's urban centers are really scared now. There is a night and day difference in the economic development of Des Moines and other large Iowa cities compared to rural Iowa. It's a shallow threat. Clean water is a little more important than Mr. Feenstra. I supposed he would like to give back the highway 20 money to make it harder for those NW Iowans to spend their $ in Des Moines.

No they would be going to sioux city. I would love to see them pull all the state tournaments out of DM. We are talking DM not all urban centers. Move the state fair as well.

sounds like you don't need people from outside of DM to come there so you should survive.

So somebody has the balls to call out farmers for polluting the water and your gonna take your ball and go home?

 

[rocketclone]

Originally posted by ClarindaA's:
Also, no one down here balls their stalks, the get chipped up in the combine and shit back our into the field. Are you talking about guys cutting silage?

Posted from Rivals Mobile

Well up here they have plant in Emmetsburg that takes the stocks. So farmers roll them into bales and sell the for XX amount per bale. They use it to produce ethanol then. So that is subsidized and takes the natural organic material out of the field.

 

[rocketclone]

Originally posted by ClarindaA's:
Rocket, no one put a gun to the head of a farmer and made them tile, rip out hedgerows, convert pasture to crop.....it is free will....lead by greed...followed with not a clue about supply and demand.

Posted from Rivals Mobile

I don't disagree, but again, you can't just say greed caused it all. The farmer doesn't have much control over the supply and demand, they have never had to. The government has provided subsidies forever and when things are up the subsidy isn't as much as when things are down.

You still haven't addressed the government involvement. They play with the markets and provide subsidies and basically they are looking at providing cheap food to the consumer. If you have cheap food, they don't have to listen to people bitch about it.

It's like GMO's, do they really need to have GMO's. They say they are more efficient but are they?? Who knows.

The markets get manipulated and the government is part of that, you can't deny that but you keep thinking it is just the farmer and there are move variables that apply than just the market.

 

[rocketclone]

Originally posted by hawkssox1:

Originally posted by rocketclone:

Originally posted by TunzaHawk:
I bet Iowa's urban centers are really scared now. There is a night and day difference in the economic development of Des Moines and other large Iowa cities compared to rural Iowa. It's a shallow threat. Clean water is a little more important than Mr. Feenstra. I supposed he would like to give back the highway 20 money to make it harder for those NW Iowans to spend their $ in Des Moines.

No they would be going to sioux city. I would love to see them pull all the state tournaments out of DM. We are talking DM not all urban centers. Move the state fair as well.

sounds like you don't need people from outside of DM to come there so you should survive.

So somebody has the balls to call out farmers for polluting the water and your gonna take your ball and go home?

No, this is more about the way they are going about it. Basically, you are looking at Des Moines waterworks wanting the EPA to start asking every farmer to get a permit for whatever they do.

Everyone bitches and moans about the farmers getting bigger, well technology along with the government has kind of dictated that. If you want the EPA involved, well guess what happens, the small guy says screw it and gives it up to the big guy because they can afford to pay for all the permits etc.

They are working with buffer strips and trying to do some long term changes that will make things better. There are farmers who rape the land and get all the production they can, that is a given, but there are others who are trying to make things better.

It is kind of like the tree farmers. They plant trees or they won't have anything to harvest. Same goes for the grain farmers. The ones who own the land want it to stay fertile so they try different things and also try and work with the pollution part of that.

 

[hawkssox1]

Originally posted by rocketclone:

The markets get manipulated and the government is part of that, you can't deny that but you keep thinking it is just the farmer and there are move variables that apply than just the market.

Yup its the Government that makes you plant up to the ditches and tear out trees so you can plant more.Got it.

 

[rocketclone]

Originally posted by hawkssox1:

Originally posted by rocketclone:

The markets get manipulated and the government is part of that, you can't deny that but you keep thinking it is just the farmer and there are move variables that apply than just the market.

Yup its the Government that makes you plant up to the ditches and tear out trees so you can plant more.Got it.

When everything is production based and you are spending 400,000 for a combine ya, that happens. And you guys keep saying that, however, you act like farmers are willy nilly just throwing fertilizer, etc on. In todays world with the field testing they are pretty precise on where they need fertilizer.

Using your line of logic, that all farmers are just greedy bastards, wouldn't they be better off using the technology to get the most out of their fertilizer and chemical by using the tools available to them so the crops are using and it and it isn't getting washed downstream??

Saves on costs and those greedy farmers are making even more money. So what you are saying isn't matching up with what they are doing does it??

 

[CarolinaHawkeye]

A couple of things: Des Moines Waterworks is not a part a part of Des Moines government. They are just another utility which is given a monopoly by local governments. I am glad they are bringing the lawsuit as it gives more attention to the problem.
While I think most farmers have gotten somewhat greedy, the problem starts with the farm programs that have been instituted. Reagan axed the programs which benefitted small farmers in Iowa which eliminated many. Since then the programs have been all about growing corn and soybeans. Why? Ethanol is the biggest reason for this. It's not economical without a lot of government help, but they have successfully promoted it to the clowns in WDC. Anyway things need to stop the path they are on. And this lawsuit may help although one of our senators has become a multi-millionaire because of the way things have been going and the new one is pretty much brain dead when it comes to environmental issues.

 

[SIRHAWKALOT]

Originally posted by CarolinaHawkeye:
A couple of things: Des Moines Waterworks is not a part a part of Des Moines government. They are just another utility which is given a monopoly by local governments. I am glad they are bringing the lawsuit as it gives more attention to the problem.
While I think most farmers have gotten somewhat greedy, the problem starts with the farm programs that have been instituted. Reagan axed the programs which benefitted small farmers in Iowa which eliminated many. Since then the programs have been all about growing corn and soybeans. Why? Ethanol is the biggest reason for this. It's not economical without a lot of government help, but they have successfully promoted it to the clowns in WDC. Anyway things need to stop the path they are on. And this lawsuit may help although one of our senators has become a multi-millionaire because of the way things have been going and the new one is pretty much brain dead when it comes to environmental issues.

Don't worry, this will continue to be ignored. Ban Des Moines! (for no reason at all)

 

[joelbc1]

Originally posted by rocketclone:
No, this is more about the way they are going about it. Basically, you are looking at Des Moines waterworks wanting the EPA to start asking every farmer to get a permit for whatever they do.

Everyone bitches and moans about the farmers getting bigger, well technology along with the government has kind of dictated that. If you want the EPA involved, well guess what happens, the small guy says screw it and gives it up to the big guy because they can afford to pay for all the permits etc.

They are working with buffer strips and trying to do some long term changes that will make things better. There are farmers who rape the land and get all the production they can, that is a given, but there are others who are trying to make things better.

It is kind of like the tree farmers. They plant trees or they won't have anything to harvest. Same goes for the grain farmers. The ones who own the land want it to stay fertile so they try different things and also try and work with the pollution part of that.

rocket....what is your fixation with the EPA? They are NOT involved at this time. It is the Waterworks and the DNR. Now, if the State (Terry Branstad) refuses to get involved, then the EPA might get involved. The polluters and the farmers in the Ioway Legislature need to understand that the SOONER they make corrections, the better off they (farmers and polluters) will be. The legislature could start by adequately funding the DNR so they can in turn address these "local" issues and move to improve them before law suits are the only alternative.
The Ioway Farmers Legislature is more concerned about reducing taxes on the rich and affluent and making retired folks income non-taxable. These "issues" are pikers compared to the quality of Iowa's water. Wait until we start closing lakes and beaches this summer because of literally, shitty water. And most of this run-off comes....NOT from urban corporations over fertilizing their green spaces.

 

[rocketclone]

The EPA is not going to get involved, they have already said the weren't.

They are trying to improve and there is a plan in place they are trying to work through.

The point is the lawsuit goes nowhere and a bunch of attorneys make a bunch of money. The state received a bunch of grant money to work through this and they have been but it is a long term process and doesn't just "happen".

The way water works is handling just basically pissed of the rural Iowans and that was about it.

 

[hawkssox1]

Originally posted by CarolinaHawkeye:
A couple of things: Des Moines Waterworks is not a part a part of Des Moines government. They are just another utility which is given a monopoly by local governments. I am glad they are bringing the lawsuit as it gives more attention to the problem.
While I think most farmers have gotten somewhat greedy, the problem starts with the farm programs that have been instituted. Reagan axed the programs which benefitted small farmers in Iowa which eliminated many. Since then the programs have been all about growing corn and soybeans. Why? Ethanol is the biggest reason for this. It's not economical without a lot of government help, but they have successfully promoted it to the clowns in WDC. Anyway things need to stop the path they are on. And this lawsuit may help although one of our senators has become a multi-millionaire because of the way things have been going and the new one is pretty much brain dead when it comes to environmental issues.

'
O'l what's up Chuck has been putting it to taxpayers for some time.Every time I see him I think he should be sitting on a rocking chair with a blanket.

 

[joelbc1]

Originally posted by rocketclone:

The EPA is not going to get involved, they have already said the weren't.

They are trying to improve and there is a plan in place they are trying to work through.

The point is the lawsuit goes nowhere and a bunch of attorneys make a bunch of money. The state received a bunch of grant money to work through this and they have been but it is a long term process and doesn't just "happen".

The way water works is handling just basically pissed of the rural Iowans and that was about it.

rocket....It is NOT an EPA concern at this time..it is a job for the DNR to oversee and solve. One of the problems, that directly lead to this lawsuit, is that Terry Branstad and the GOP legislature REFUSE to adequately fund the DNR and its county conservation boards to allow them to oversee and regulate these types of violations.
This governor...as long as he has been governor, honestly believes all farmers will voluntarily fall into line and that thinking has obviously failed Iowa. It takes $$$$ and it takes active regulation to ensure these "spills" don't happen. And when they do, the penalties need to be swift, severe and CORRECT. That is the function of the DNR.
The "long term" program in place has shown NO remedy to this issue as of yet. DSM Waterworks has had these nitrate cleaners in place for almost a decade now, yet no improvement in the quality of the water coming from Sac, Calhoun and Buena Vista counties has been noted. Hence, the law suit.
The legislature needs to review its conservation rules and update them. Then the legislature needs to properly fund the DNR and allow them to do their job. Until these two things happen, DSM is going to continue to drink shitty water, will have to pay extra to have the nitrates removed....and as I said earlier, if the shoe was on the other foot, the farmer's would be first in line screaming "Bloody Murder!" and demanding compensation for their losses.

 

[hawkssox1]

Originally posted by joelbc1:

Originally posted by rocketclone:


The EPA is not going to get involved, they have already said the weren't.

They are trying to improve and there is a plan in place they are trying to work through.

The point is the lawsuit goes nowhere and a bunch of attorneys make a bunch of money. The state received a bunch of grant money to work through this and they have been but it is a long term process and doesn't just "happen".

The way water works is handling just basically pissed of the rural Iowans and that was about it.

rocket....It is NOT an EPA concern at this time..it is a job for the DNR to oversee and solve. One of the problems, that directly lead to this lawsuit, is that Terry Branstad and the GOP legislature REFUSE to adequately fund the DNR and its county conservation boards to allow them to oversee and regulate these types of violations.
This governor...as long as he has been governor, honestly believes all farmers will voluntarily fall into line and that thinking has obviously failed Iowa. It takes $$$$ and it takes active regulation to ensure these "spills" don't happen. And when they do, the penalties need to be swift, severe and CORRECT. That is the function of the DNR.
The "long term" program in place has shown NO remedy to this issue as of yet. DSM Waterworks has had these nitrate cleaners in place for almost a decade now, yet no improvement in the quality of the water coming from Sac, Calhoun and Buena Vista counties has been noted. Hence, the law suit.
The legislature needs to review its conservation rules and update them. Then the legislature needs to properly fund the DNR and allow them to do their job. Until these two things happen, DSM is going to continue to drink shitty water, will have to pay extra to have the nitrates removed....and as I said earlier, if the shoe was on the other foot, the farmer's would be first in line screaming "Bloody Murder!" and demanding compensation for their losses.

Well stated.