Hundreds feared dead in strike on Gaza hospital

[cigaretteman]

An attack on the al-Ahli Hospital in the middle of Gaza City is believed to have killed hundreds of people, a spokesman for the Palestinian Civil Defense told The Washington Post. Meanwhile, bombardments by the Israel Defense Forces on Tuesday hit southern parts of the Gaza Strip — an area the IDF has demanded that Gazans from the north relocate to in anticipation of its expected offensive in the north against Hamas. As many as 1 million people may have been displaced from the north of the enclave, aid agencies say. Several Western leaders announced plans to travel to Israel this week in a show of support ahead of the country’s expected ground offensive in the Gaza Strip and to plead for humanitarian relief for Gaza. President Biden said he would visit Israel on Wednesday to show solidarity with the U.S. ally.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/10/17/israel-hamas-war-news-gaza/

 

[Huey Grey]

I've said it in other threads, but Israel is hellbent on burning up any good will they have right now.

 

[cigaretteman]

I've said it in other threads, but Israel is hellbent on burning up any good will they have right now.

Yep. It's starting to look an awful lot like genocide.

 

[PapaTed]

Hamas purposefully has their fighters hide in hospitals

 

[nolesincebirth]

Nobody cares. Majority of people support the war.

It’s a horrible reflection of humanity when we justify killing each other.

 

[QChawks]

Nobody cares. Majority of people support the war.

It’s a horrible reflection of humanity when we justify killing each other.

wars will always exist

thanks a lot Adam & Eve

 

[BrianNole777]

Yep. It's starting to look an awful lot like genocide.

Oh come on, Ciggy.

Israel warned 1 million Palestinians to move south.

Genocide doesn't give warnings first.

 

[fsu1jreed]

Hamas purposefully has their fighters hide in hospitals

Moot

 

[JRHawk2003]

 

[BubsFinn]

Moot

If you’re firing rockets from a hospital, the deaths from retaliation are on your hands because you made the decision to put those people in danger.

 

[TheCainer]

Oh come on, Ciggy.

Israel warned 1 million Palestinians to move south.

Genocide doesn't give warnings first.

They also hit parts of southern Gaza which is where Israel said the refugees needed to relocate to. That is not a good look for Israel.

 

[PapaTed]

Moot

Wouldn’t shock me if hamas did this for propaganda purposes

 

[nolesincebirth]

If you’re firing rockets from a hospital, the deaths from retaliation are on your hands because you made the decision to put those people in danger.

Maybe. But if I’m a parent of a dead kid, that doesn’t really change things.

Edited to add: and I’m not specifically blaming Israel either. This whole things SUCKS. Israel can’t just sit there and take rocket fire indefinitely.

 

[BelemNole]

Not the first one they've blown up. Won't be the last.

 

[ConvenientParking]

Genocide doesn't give warnings first.

? Kristallnacht was 1938. Mein Kemp was published in the 20s. Camps were liberated in 1945. There were warnings there.

 

[BrianNole777]

? Kristallnacht was 1938. Mein Kemp was published in the 20s. Camps were liberated in 1945. There were warnings there.

Hitler didn't warn Jews that he was going to gas them at Aushwitz. He attempted to keep the concentration camps secret. It's part of the reason he didn't write down any orders.

 

[Rifler]

Maybe. But if I’m a parent of a dead kid, that doesn’t really change things.

If you're the parent of a dead kid in that situation, you should be questioning why you didn't relocate the family to the southern most border of Gaza...

 

[Funky Bunch]

They all had pre-existing conditions

 

[bhawk24bob]

How many times is the world going to fall for this crap when Hamas intentionally fires rockets from schools, hospitals, basically anywhere that civilians are going to get killed when targeted by Israel?

Or are we going to pretend this is different?

 

[GlenHawk]

Wouldn’t shock me if hamas did this for propaganda purposes

It would align with their past strategies.

I already shared this in another thread but probably worth posting again.

https://stratcomcoe.org/cuploads/pfiles/hamas_human_shields.pdf

Hamas relies on the Israeli government’s aim to minimize collateral damage, and is also aware of the West‘s sensitivity towards civilian casualties. Hamas’ use of human shields is therefore likely aimed at minimizing their own vulnerabilities by limiting the Israeli Defense Forces’ (IDF) freedom of action. It is also aimed at gaining diplomatic and public opinion-related leverage, by presenting Israel and the IDF as an aggressor that indiscriminately strikes civilians.

Hamas’ most common uses of human shields include:

-Firing rockets, artillery, and mortars from or in proximity to heavily populated civilian areas, often from or near facilities which should be protected according to the Geneva Convention (e.g. schools, hospitals, or mosques).
-Locating military or security-related infrastructures such as HQs, bases, armories, access routes, lathes, or defensive positions within or in proximity to civilian areas.
-Protecting terrorists’ houses and military facilities, or rescuing terrorists who were besieged or warned by the IDF.
-Combating the IDF from or in proximity to residential and commercial areas, including using civilians for intelligence gathering missions.

By engaging in these acts, Hamas employs a win-win scenario: if indeed the IDF uses kinetic power, and the number of civilian causalities surges, Hamas can use that as a weapon in the lawfare it conducts. It would be able to accuse the IDF (and Israel) of committing war crimes, which in turn could result in the imposition of a wide array of sanctions. On the other hand, if the IDF limits its use of military power in Gaza to avoid collateral damage, Hamas will be less vulnerable to Israeli attacks, and thereby able to protect its assets while continuing to fight.

 

[cigaretteman]

If you're the parent of a dead kid in that situation, you should be questioning why you didn't relocate the family to the southern most border of Gaza...

Meanwhile, bombardments by the Israel Defense Forces on Tuesday hit southern parts of the Gaza Strip — an area the IDF has demanded that Gazans from the north relocate to in anticipation of its expected offensive in the north against Hamas. As many as 1 million people may have been displaced from the north of the enclave, aid agencies say

 

[torbee]

As much as I loathe to see civilian casualties, I keep going back to the article I posted in the long war thread that spelled out Hamas' positions based on their governing document.

In it, they explicitly reject ANY two-state solution, say they will not ever stop fighting (including targeting Israeli civilians which they consider combatants if they live anywhere on current Israeli soil) until the last Jew is either killed or removed from the entire region.

That is the governing structure a majority of voters in the Gaza Strip chose.

It is very, very difficult to gin up a ton of sympathy for them based on that. They are the ones that set the terms for a winner-take-all effort at ethnic cleansing. Apparently, the Israelis are just better at the cleansing part than the terrorists and their enablers.

 

[Aardvark86]

Lots of possibilities here - Hamas did it, Iran did it, Israel did it accidentally, Israel did it purposefully.

 

[VodkaSam]

If you're the parent of a dead kid in that situation, you should be questioning why you didn't relocate the family to the southern most border of Gaza...

Depending on what a kid was hospitalized for, and lack of ambulance availability, may have been unable to logistically move the child.

Just a horrible situation that’s getting worse.

 

[Aardvark86]

Depending on what a kid was hospitalized for, and lack of ambulance availability, may have been unable to logistically move the child.

Just a horrible situation that’s getting worse.

yeah, so far my rosary from this morning ain't workin

 

[THE_DEVIL]

thanks a lot Adam & Eve

They were good people. Gullible but good.

 

[lonestar50]

Oh come on, Ciggy.

Israel warned 1 million Palestinians to move south.

Genocide doesn't give warnings first.

Yeah it's easy to move 1,000,000 people out of Gaza in a few days. But a warning was given. Serves them right for sticking around

 

[Rifler]

Depending on what a kid was hospitalized for, and lack of ambulance availability, may have been unable to logistically move the child.

Just a horrible situation that’s getting worse.

I can agree on horrible situation...

 

[Colonoscopy]

I've said it in other threads, but Israel is hellbent on burning up any good will they have right now.

Do you think they're targeting civilians? I really doubt it.

 

[SI_NYC]

Israel had my heart felt sympathy after the Hamas attack. They now have committed worse atrocities and have me thinking Hamas and the Israeli gov't are all monsters.

 

[GlenHawk]

As much as I loathe to see civilian casualties, I keep going back to the article I posted in the long war thread that spelled out Hamas' positions based on their governing document.

In it, they explicitly reject ANY two-state solution, say they will not ever stop fighting (including targeting Israeli civilians which they consider combatants if they live anywhere on current Israeli soil) until the last Jew is either killed or removed from the entire region.

That is the governing structure a majority of voters in the Gaza Strip chose.

It is very, very difficult to gin up a ton of sympathy for them based on that. They are the ones that set the terms for a winner-take-all effort at ethnic cleansing. Apparently, the Israelis are just better at the cleansing part than the terrorists and their enablers.

I feel like this is what a lot of people are missing. Civilians being killed is always terrible but the truth is most Palestinians support Hamas and aren’t interested in sharing anything with the Jewish people.

I just can’t get behind a person or group who wants to eradicate an entire population of people.

If they don’t want to negotiate and find a peaceful solution for both parties, they can prepare for more loss.

 

[auntie_fah]

That is the governing structure a majority of voters in the Gaza Strip chose.

It is very, very difficult to gin up a ton of sympathy for them based on that.

i sure as hell wouldn’t want another country bombing our country based on who voters chose within our electoral college structure.

 

[Colonoscopy]

Israel had my heart felt sympathy after the Hamas attack. They now have committed worse atrocities and has me thinking Hamas and the Israeli gov't are all monsters.

Again... Intent. What is it?

 

[Rifler]

Israel had my heart felt sympathy after the Hamas attack. They now have committed worse atrocities and has me thinking Hamas and the Israeli gov't are all monsters.

We seem to be on the normal path here,.. Within a week or so, Israel will be drowning in the media cesspool that this story will inevitably morph into.

 

[torbee]

I feel like this is what a lot of people are missing. Civilians being killed is always terrible but the truth is most Palestinians support Hamas and aren’t interested in sharing anything with the Jewish people.

I just can’t get behind a person or group who wants to eradicate an entire population of people.

If they don’t want to negotiate and find a peaceful solution for both parties, they can prepare for more loss.

At this point, it seems like a large number - if not a majority - on both the Palestinian and Israeli side are willing to go full genocide to "win."

I'm not going to try and parse out whose atrocities are "worse" in a situation like that. It's a fool's errand.

A pox on both their houses. Oh, and it's all over a different branch of the same Abrahamic religion and real estate. Just a lesson in human idiocy all around.

 

[JimStarr777]

It’s remarkable how much liberals hate the Jews.

 

[ConvenientParking]

People keep saying Palestinians voted for Hamas, but that was in 2006. Most Palestinians weren't born or were small children. Hasn't Netanyahu propped up Hamas for domestic political reasons more recently than Palestinians have voted for Hamas?

 

[torbee]

i sure as hell wouldn’t want another country bombing our country based on who voters chose within our electoral college structure.

If a majority of Americans elected a government with the avowed and written-into-the-law aim of either killing or kicking out every Mexican and Canadian in North America, then went across the border into those two countries and murdered, raped and kidnapped women and children from those two countries, I think I would understand it if those two countries then rained bombs down on Chicago, New York, LA, etc.

 

[GlenHawk]

Israel had my heart felt sympathy after the Hamas attack. They now have committed worse atrocities and have me thinking Hamas and the Israeli gov't are all monsters.

And you’d be falling right in line with the game plan of Hamas. They sacrifice their own civilians to try and get your sympathy.

One side ultimately wants peace between the two groups and the other doesn’t.

 

[THE_DEVIL]

Don't know if this clears anything up one way or another