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I am a sucker for an angry, bitter obituary . . .

torbee

HB King
Gold Member
This guy didn't like Bobby Knight much. And he's right - the guy was a misogynist and a bully. (I also think he was a good coach and I respected that he made his players do well academically)


Bob Knight Was a Misogynistic Bully​

I grew up hating the Indiana coach, and I was right.​

By Jonathan Chait, who’s been a New York political columnist since 2011.

Bob Knight, the famed Indiana basketball coach who died Wednesday, once told a crowd of supporters, “When my time on Earth is gone, and my activities here are passed, I want they bury me upside down, and my critics can kiss my ass!”

There is a valuable norm against speaking ill of the recently deceased. But Knight was expressing his hope that his death would not bring about a cessation of hostility, that the things that divided him from those who hated him would not be set aside. And so, in accordance with those wishes, let me say that Knight was a dreadful human, a grotesque model of twisted masculinity, and he should be remembered as a symbol of wickedness.

I have detested Bob Knight my entire life, and the years that have passed have only validated that contempt. I grew up in a household of partisan Michigan fans. We had season tickets for football and basketball, and the annual visits from Knight and his Hoosiers were special events. My dad would prepare signs mocking Knight, usually in reference to whatever notorious behavior he had engaged in over the past year. He would position himself over the tunnel and tell Knight he was a dirtbag when he passed through. Sometimes Knight would make eye contact and return a menacing glare. It was gratifying.

The reasons we hated Knight went well beyond sports rivalry. He was a notorious bully and misogynist. His heyday was a different era, when coaches had total authority and control over the lives of their players and operated with little accountability. But even by the standards of the time, Knight stood out as a notorious reactionary bully.

He was probably most famous for yelling at officials and once hurling a chair onto the court, but working the officials is part of the sport. What made him noxious was the abuse he meted out to those who had no power over him.

Knight was a towering man who abused his players verbally and physically. He would (allegedly) smack them in practice and call them “pussies.” Those allegations were borne out in evidence. He once berated and kicked his son Pat, a player, on the sidelines of a game. That year, my father brought a sign to the stadium reading “Bobby, Kick Your Son.” The stadium ushers made him take it down. I was a student at the time, and I came and smuggled the sign into the student section. When Knight began one of his tirades, I held it up, and the whole student section began chanting, “Kick your son! Kick your son!” I consider that moment a personal highlight. Knight was ultimately fired shortly after video evidence showed him choking his undersized guard, Neil Reed, at practice.

In the 1980s, he told Connie Chung, “I think that if rape is inevitable, relax and enjoy it.” He once placed a tampon in the locker of one of his players as a way of calling him weak and soft. It was not uncommon for coaches of that era to equate weakness with womanhood, but Knight’s misogyny stood out.

Knight was one of the first major figures to endorse and legitimize Donald Trump in 2016, holding a rally with the Republican nominee. It was a perfectly fitting capstone to Knight’s career. The two men shared a misogynistic, authoritarian sensibility, casting the world as a chaotic place that had to be ordered by strong men who could not be questioned.

Obituaries have described Knight as “complicated.” Well, viewed up close, almost everybody is complicated. Stalin was complicated. (An exception is Trump, who in person seems to be merely a grosser version of his public self.) Taken as a whole, he was a very simple and horrible man who stood for things that were clear and wrong. If there is an afterlife, right now Bob Knight is being bullied by Satan.
 
Knight's outrage seems like a product of bygone era. He was respected in his day (some still do) for his results and old school toughness. To me it just screams insecurity and an inability to be an adult. Many have come and had success without having to act like a spoiled brat (Kerr, Phil Jackson, Papovich to name a few), I'd argue Indiana won in spite of his outrageous behaviors and not because of them.
 
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Didn't realize he was still alive. Win games and u can treat folks however u want.
 
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If you aren't gonna cover him, Greg Graham
If you're just gonna let him drive by ya then I'm leavin' and you guys can ****in' run until you can't eat supper!

I'm sick and tired of this shit!
I'm tired of losing to Purdue!!


...

I had to sit around in this ****ing league for a year with an 8 and 10 record, and you will not put me in that ****ing position again!!!
 
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Knight's outrage seem like a product of bygone era. He was respected in his day (some still do) for his results and old school toughness. To me it just screams insecurity and an inability to be an adult. Many have come and had success without having to act like a spoiled brat (Kerr, Phil Jackson, Papovich to name a few), I'd argue Indiana won in spite of his outrageous behaviors and not because of them.

I think he's arguably the best basketball coach of all time. The success to talent ratio is probably untouched by any other coach in history at any level. That doesn't make him the "greatest" coach, as in college, talent acquisition is part of the game, so that's Coach K and his five titles.

That said...demons on top of demons on top of demons...almost certainly suffered from a degree of mental illness. Not a good guy. His legacy is very rightly tarnished/complicated.

I don't know if I agree or disagree with your last statement. If you mean, Indiana won in spite of Bob Knight, because of it's talent or whatever, I hard disagree.

But if you're saying Bob Knight won in spite of his worst behaviors, I think that is probably true. Too often his behavior was tolerated as just being part of the "secret sauce" that was intrinsic to his success. And I don't think that's the case in retrospect, and the success of his disciple Coach K kind of proves it, as does the success of a hard asses like Nick Saban or Bill Belichek. If he'd been able to modulate his anger down like 30%-35%, he'd have a much different legacy today and I'm not sure there's any reason to think he'd have been any less successful. In fact, almost certainly more successful, given his issues attracting elite talent in his late career.
 
I think he's arguably the best basketball coach of all time. The success to talent ratio is probably untouched by any other coach in history at any level. That doesn't make him the "greatest" coach, as in college, talent acquisition is part of the game, so that's Coach K and his five titles.

That said...demons on top of demons on top of demons...almost certainly suffered from a degree of mental illness. Not a good guy. His legacy is very rightly tarnished/complicated.

I don't know if I agree or disagree with your last statement. If you mean, Indiana won in spite of Bob Knight, because of it's talent or whatever, I hard disagree.

But if you're saying Bob Knight won in spite of his worst behaviors, I think that is probably true. Too often his behavior was tolerated as just being part of the "secret sauce" that was intrinsic to his success. And I don't think that's the case in retrospect, and the success of his disciple Coach K kind of proves it, as does the success of a hard asses like Nick Saban or Bill Belichek. If he'd been able to modulate his anger down like 30%-35%, he'd have a much different legacy today and I'm not sure there's any reason to think he'd have been any less successful. In fact, almost certainly more successful, given his issues attracting elite talent in his late career.
Good point, I think he is a great coach also. He was an obsessive about the game. He was elite in player development and being a great game tactician, but to clarify I think they succeeded despite his "motivational" outbursts not because of them. I had coaches in the past that emulated his outbursts like it was going to make us play better, but I only saw player stiffen up and become afraid to make mistakes.
 
It is complicated for me, as I have always been a huge Hawkeye football and basketball fan, so I always wanted Iowa to beat Indiana. But part of me really enjoyed Bobby's antics, especially with refs and press conferences. Part of it might stem from the fact that my high school football coach and basketball coach were similar, and I fed off it. Both called guys pussies as needed, dropped F bombs, football coach grabbed facemasks and went to town. I remember losing a basketball game on the road that we should have won, and on the way back an underclassman laughed out loud fairly quietly, and coach had the driver stop the bus and got up and went completely insane. Our baseball coach, after a road game where we made a few errors and lost to a bad team, made us run laps around the field and then take infield without gloves as he peppered hard grounders and line drives at us. Our starting shortstop broke a thumb. Heck I loved it when Hayden would take press to task occasionally (never to the level of Knight) and I still enjoy watching videos of Earl Weaver and Billy martin giving the umps the business. Oh and one of my favorites was when the refs asked Billy Tubbs to ask the fans to stop throwing things onto the court and he took the mic and said "no matter how terrible the officiating is, please don't throw things on the floor," which got him a T from Eddie Hightower.
 
It is complicated for me, as I have always been a huge Hawkeye football and basketball fan, so I always wanted Iowa to beat Indiana. But part of me really enjoyed Bobby's antics, especially with refs and press conferences. Part of it might stem from the fact that my high school football coach and basketball coach were similar, and I fed off it. Both called guys pussies as needed, dropped F bombs, football coach grabbed facemasks and went to town. I remember losing a basketball game on the road that we should have won, and on the way back an underclassman laughed out loud fairly quietly, and coach had the driver stop the bus and got up and went completely insane. Our baseball coach, after a road game where we made a few errors and lost to a bad team, made us run laps around the field and then take infield without gloves as he peppered hard grounders and line drives at us. Our starting shortstop broke a thumb. Heck I loved it when Hayden would take press to take occasionally (never to the level of Knight) and I still enjoy watching videos of Earl Weaver and Billy martin giving the umps the business.
Where I come from we have a word for fellas like you - masochists.

gimp-suit-1-1024x753.jpg
 
I think he's arguably the best basketball coach of all time. The success to talent ratio is probably untouched by any other coach in history at any level. That doesn't make him the "greatest" coach, as in college, talent acquisition is part of the game, so that's Coach K and his five titles.

That said...demons on top of demons on top of demons...almost certainly suffered from a degree of mental illness. Not a good guy. His legacy is very rightly tarnished/complicated.

I don't know if I agree or disagree with your last statement. If you mean, Indiana won in spite of Bob Knight, because of it's talent or whatever, I hard disagree.

But if you're saying Bob Knight won in spite of his worst behaviors, I think that is probably true. Too often his behavior was tolerated as just being part of the "secret sauce" that was intrinsic to his success. And I don't think that's the case in retrospect, and the success of his disciple Coach K kind of proves it, as does the success of a hard asses like Nick Saban or Bill Belichek. If he'd been able to modulate his anger down like 30%-35%, he'd have a much different legacy today and I'm not sure there's any reason to think he'd have been any less successful. In fact, almost certainly more successful, given his issues attracting elite talent in his late career.
1) I don’t think there’s any question that in his prime he was one the greatest, if not the greatest, coaches ever. Recall that he defeated Dean Smith, Michael Jordan, Sam Perkins, Brad Daughtery, and Kenny Smith in the Sweet Sixteen with Steve Alford, Mike Giomi, Uwe Blab, and Dan Dakich (as an aside, I also consider Smith to be one of the most overrated coaches ever—both of his NCAA titles were sealed in the closing minutes by complete fluke plays—but that’s another conversation entirely).

2) I am glad he never represented a university that I graduated from or had any personal affiliation with. I would not have wanted him to be “our coach” in a thousand years.
 
Think I read in a book that he was so pissed at a player after a game on the road he left him to find his own way home after not letting him on the team bus. Wasn't Alford.
Don't know if a coach could get away with that now days.
 
I forgot where I read this, maybe it was Season On The Brink (great book) but I think one of his assistants would tell players, "Don't listen to him when he's calling you an asshole. Listen to him when he's telling you why you're an asshole" Or something along those lines.
 
This guy didn't like Bobby Knight much. And he's right - the guy was a misogynist and a bully. (I also think he was a good coach and I respected that he made his players do well academically)


Bob Knight Was a Misogynistic Bully​

I grew up hating the Indiana coach, and I was right.​

By Jonathan Chait, who’s been a New York political columnist since 2011.

Bob Knight, the famed Indiana basketball coach who died Wednesday, once told a crowd of supporters, “When my time on Earth is gone, and my activities here are passed, I want they bury me upside down, and my critics can kiss my ass!”

There is a valuable norm against speaking ill of the recently deceased. But Knight was expressing his hope that his death would not bring about a cessation of hostility, that the things that divided him from those who hated him would not be set aside. And so, in accordance with those wishes, let me say that Knight was a dreadful human, a grotesque model of twisted masculinity, and he should be remembered as a symbol of wickedness.

I have detested Bob Knight my entire life, and the years that have passed have only validated that contempt. I grew up in a household of partisan Michigan fans. We had season tickets for football and basketball, and the annual visits from Knight and his Hoosiers were special events. My dad would prepare signs mocking Knight, usually in reference to whatever notorious behavior he had engaged in over the past year. He would position himself over the tunnel and tell Knight he was a dirtbag when he passed through. Sometimes Knight would make eye contact and return a menacing glare. It was gratifying.

The reasons we hated Knight went well beyond sports rivalry. He was a notorious bully and misogynist. His heyday was a different era, when coaches had total authority and control over the lives of their players and operated with little accountability. But even by the standards of the time, Knight stood out as a notorious reactionary bully.

He was probably most famous for yelling at officials and once hurling a chair onto the court, but working the officials is part of the sport. What made him noxious was the abuse he meted out to those who had no power over him.

Knight was a towering man who abused his players verbally and physically. He would (allegedly) smack them in practice and call them “pussies.” Those allegations were borne out in evidence. He once berated and kicked his son Pat, a player, on the sidelines of a game. That year, my father brought a sign to the stadium reading “Bobby, Kick Your Son.” The stadium ushers made him take it down. I was a student at the time, and I came and smuggled the sign into the student section. When Knight began one of his tirades, I held it up, and the whole student section began chanting, “Kick your son! Kick your son!” I consider that moment a personal highlight. Knight was ultimately fired shortly after video evidence showed him choking his undersized guard, Neil Reed, at practice.

In the 1980s, he told Connie Chung, “I think that if rape is inevitable, relax and enjoy it.” He once placed a tampon in the locker of one of his players as a way of calling him weak and soft. It was not uncommon for coaches of that era to equate weakness with womanhood, but Knight’s misogyny stood out.

Knight was one of the first major figures to endorse and legitimize Donald Trump in 2016, holding a rally with the Republican nominee. It was a perfectly fitting capstone to Knight’s career. The two men shared a misogynistic, authoritarian sensibility, casting the world as a chaotic place that had to be ordered by strong men who could not be questioned.

Obituaries have described Knight as “complicated.” Well, viewed up close, almost everybody is complicated. Stalin was complicated. (An exception is Trump, who in person seems to be merely a grosser version of his public self.) Taken as a whole, he was a very simple and horrible man who stood for things that were clear and wrong. If there is an afterlife, right now Bob Knight is being bullied by Satan.
When a great man of many achievements passes, beta pussys come out of the woodwork to spout shit they would never dare say to the living man’s face.
 
I forgot where I read this, maybe it was Season On The Brink (great book) but I think one of his assistants would tell players, "Don't listen to him when he's calling you an asshole. Listen to him when he's telling you why you're an asshole" Or something along those lines.
Yeah, that book might be where I'm remembering mine from.
 
In his 2006 autobiography, Lute Olson said this about Bobby
Knight: "He has always run a clean program. But he has a
horrible temper and when it blows it gets him into difficulty."

John Wooden had this to say about Lute Olson: "He is one of
the finest teachers and strategists that the sport of basketball
has produced. He has the love and respect of all those who
understand the great sport of basketball."
 
He was a gigantic asshole who was given power over young men and used it to abuse and bully them.

It's not like he's just old school, his behavior would have been frowned upon in any era of basketball.
I agree completely….and also many of his former players stayed immensely loyal to him and there are countless stories of him being exceedingly generous and going out of his way to help them in a lot of different ways long after their careers were done.

It’s a really complicated legacy, but it probably does largely come down to “great coach & terrible human”.
 
This guy didn't like Bobby Knight much. And he's right - the guy was a misogynist and a bully. (I also think he was a good coach and I respected that he made his players do well academically)


Bob Knight Was a Misogynistic Bully​

I grew up hating the Indiana coach, and I was right.​

By Jonathan Chait, who’s been a New York political columnist since 2011.

Bob Knight, the famed Indiana basketball coach who died Wednesday, once told a crowd of supporters, “When my time on Earth is gone, and my activities here are passed, I want they bury me upside down, and my critics can kiss my ass!”

There is a valuable norm against speaking ill of the recently deceased. But Knight was expressing his hope that his death would not bring about a cessation of hostility, that the things that divided him from those who hated him would not be set aside. And so, in accordance with those wishes, let me say that Knight was a dreadful human, a grotesque model of twisted masculinity, and he should be remembered as a symbol of wickedness.

I have detested Bob Knight my entire life, and the years that have passed have only validated that contempt. I grew up in a household of partisan Michigan fans. We had season tickets for football and basketball, and the annual visits from Knight and his Hoosiers were special events. My dad would prepare signs mocking Knight, usually in reference to whatever notorious behavior he had engaged in over the past year. He would position himself over the tunnel and tell Knight he was a dirtbag when he passed through. Sometimes Knight would make eye contact and return a menacing glare. It was gratifying.

The reasons we hated Knight went well beyond sports rivalry. He was a notorious bully and misogynist. His heyday was a different era, when coaches had total authority and control over the lives of their players and operated with little accountability. But even by the standards of the time, Knight stood out as a notorious reactionary bully.

He was probably most famous for yelling at officials and once hurling a chair onto the court, but working the officials is part of the sport. What made him noxious was the abuse he meted out to those who had no power over him.

Knight was a towering man who abused his players verbally and physically. He would (allegedly) smack them in practice and call them “pussies.” Those allegations were borne out in evidence. He once berated and kicked his son Pat, a player, on the sidelines of a game. That year, my father brought a sign to the stadium reading “Bobby, Kick Your Son.” The stadium ushers made him take it down. I was a student at the time, and I came and smuggled the sign into the student section. When Knight began one of his tirades, I held it up, and the whole student section began chanting, “Kick your son! Kick your son!” I consider that moment a personal highlight. Knight was ultimately fired shortly after video evidence showed him choking his undersized guard, Neil Reed, at practice.

In the 1980s, he told Connie Chung, “I think that if rape is inevitable, relax and enjoy it.” He once placed a tampon in the locker of one of his players as a way of calling him weak and soft. It was not uncommon for coaches of that era to equate weakness with womanhood, but Knight’s misogyny stood out.

Knight was one of the first major figures to endorse and legitimize Donald Trump in 2016, holding a rally with the Republican nominee. It was a perfectly fitting capstone to Knight’s career. The two men shared a misogynistic, authoritarian sensibility, casting the world as a chaotic place that had to be ordered by strong men who could not be questioned.

Obituaries have described Knight as “complicated.” Well, viewed up close, almost everybody is complicated. Stalin was complicated. (An exception is Trump, who in person seems to be merely a grosser version of his public self.) Taken as a whole, he was a very simple and horrible man who stood for things that were clear and wrong. If there is an afterlife, right now Bob Knight is being bullied by Satan.
What a ridiculous obituary.
 
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My biggest issue with his style of play is the number of goons he used. Physical play is part of the game, but there were too many instances I felt his teams tried to take someone out.
 
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My biggest issue with his style of play is the number of goons he used. Physical play is part of the game, but there were too many instances I felt his teams tried to take someone out.
Yep. Like when Dr. Tom would have his tallest player guarding the inbounds pass and Knight would instruct his player throw the ball off his face as hard as he can from point blank range. To this day it pisses me off that he was never ejected for that shit.
 
No kidding. I don't even dislike my ex-wife enough to write a negative dissertation about her. Not saying the author is right or wrong, but dude, go get some fresh air.
See, I find it refreshing.

Always felt the need to talk nice just because someone died was dumb.

If a POS was a POS dying doesn’t change that.
 
See, I find it refreshing.

Always felt the need to talk nice just because someone died was dumb.

If a POS was a POS dying doesn’t change that.
If that's the case then why didn't this guy just write an op-ed and dedicated to Knight while he was alive?
 
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Yep. Like when Dr. Tom would have his tallest player guarding the inbounds pass and Knight would instruct his player throw the ball off his face as hard as he can from point blank range. To this day it pisses me off that he was never ejected for that shit.
I remember when Kent Hill took one off the face then pitched the in bounder in the face after what he did. I get Kent being thrown out but throw out the in bounder too for what he did.
 
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