I came unlgued Saturday over that let down..

[cmhawks99]

Made the mistake of jumping in here to see any injury news. I haven't posted during the season in 3 plus years but I saw all the old critics and I thought I'd share this...

1st...most in here know I'm an out loud critic of the "critic" as idiotic & hypocritical as that sounds, but true right....LOL...But Saturday I was pi%$#ed. I'm a defensive guy and to give up those Td's cooked me, I was texting my boss who was there and even shouting out loud I hoped they'd lose I was soooo pi%#!!!! I even emailed a beat writer I interact with at times and I called in late on the call in show which I never even listen to because I can't stand most of the fans. Then, I rewatched the game...

Lets start with the bad....I don't understand why we put in our reserves at QB and Rber and then don't let them succeed. Honestly that game felt gross and ruined any positivity I had from it, but I was at work and didn't really "see it". Its also true we have had an easy schedule and we have under-performed in my mind for sure....but thats where we all have a tendency to have confirmation bias, I was mad and saw what I "felt" was terrible coaching. Its never that easy because if it were then every Sat/Sunday you'd have basically 160 good coaches and 160 bad, see how stupid that is.

Now too the mundane, when I saw people just waxing off the OOC season as an automatic 3-0 I cringed, life has a way of making you look dumb. Then I saw some fool on Hawk central text the writers pre-NW we need to beat NW by 21-28 points. I also cringed, I knew NW was likely better than their record (I believe we are too) and incidentally and ironically if you will, typically their fans think PF sucks and is conservative, too loyal, plays the wrong guys, et al, funny all these professional coaches play the wrong guys per their fans...makes you wonder why we don't just save the money and hire fans.

Now too the "Re-watch", we could have scored as many TD's as we wanted on short fields, yes we went ultra conservative, but it wasn't nearly as tragic as I thought. Our reserves, you know the ones the fans alwasy suggest are better than our starters were miserably out of position & missed tackles. Broken coverage's, miscommunication, yes it was gross, but had we wanted to we could have won by 60.

Now some season notes....

We have under-performed on OL to a degree (injuries have helped) at QB, CJ looks a little like Aaron Rodgers, both solid and then confused all in the same series. At Wr, we knew we would, at DT (a little, but the call in boys disagreed) and definitely at Safety. We have had some slight issues at Lber with tackling and at CB but honestly its better than our fans realize.

Too start with I think Bower has had some poor moments, but to those fools (yes I said it) who can't figure out why he is playing he has had many good as well and the Minne game was his best game and he was fine vs PU until he had to be the guy and then he was in his head and missed tackles. Per the Gazette he has had some decent grading per Pro-football weekly grades.

Mabin, in the Minne game when he got nailed a couple times he was in absolutely perfect position and the ball just barely snuck through for incredible, albeit lucky catches that I believe were reviewed both times...?!?! He is still an NFL corner. King and Jewel, both studs have had their own break downs and they for the most part have had "great" game grades, so honestly its been a rough season and if you want to piss and moan start with the players...

Safety's, Snyder has slowly improved, but he still try's to knock people out and Taylor of whom I had been a fan has had a very tough season. He misses tackles, goes the wrong way, man it has been brutal.

If we are going to beat Wiscy they BOTH have to play their best games.

As for the coaches, since I work on Saturdays (except the two games we lost, doh!!) I listen to Eddy and Dolph during appraisal drives. Eddy has spent plenty of time talking about Iowa's coaches doing good things, new plays, new formations etc....Not that Ed is the be all, because he isn't or he'd be coaching, but we don't have bad coaches I'm sorry, no matter how badly you need it to be true it isn't...

Finally some things of note....I'm not sure what's up with Jones or Mends and the depth chart but I do know this, everyone's All-American Derrick Willies has caught 9 passes for Texas Tech (yes THAT pass happy Texas Tech) all year and none last week. You remember how badly we supposedly screwed that up, right?!!

Quite frankly when our fans criticize our personnel decisions it typically tells me we are spot on, our fans have to be some of the worst at predicting how great every so-called legend is who typically goes on to do nothing..

Honestly I thought Jackson and Ojemudia looked awesome preseason and they promptly got jumped by Ragumba, (showing of course they'll play ANYBODY they think can help) but then again I don't cruise about pretending I know more than the coaches like some of our more astute posters...LOL

Quite frankly, I'm not sure I enjoy football or Iowa period that much anymore. You want to talk about predictable, that Indy vs Houston game is what football is now. That exact scenario has happend 200 or 300 times in just the last 5 or 10 years. Why?!?!?! We all know what's going to happen at the end of those games and guess what?? Many, many, many of them are just like that now. Houston couldn't do anything all game & then suddenly in the last 5 minutes, Indy dives into the line 6 or 9 times and the Marines, Army, Air Force, Navy and National guard et al couldn't have kept Houston out of the end zone. Its stupid, tiresome and if it was a movie script (and oh it has been about 1000 times) you'd call it tired and unoriginal.

Point being these are professional athletes and coaches, making a gazzilion dollars and they ARE predictable...football IS predictable. Pat Fitzgerald IS predictable, so is Mike McCarthy, Ron Rivera, Paul Chryst, etc...as is every coach honestly. Yes some of them are innovative to a degree but its still football. Our players need to play better, period!

Do you know what I do when I think something sucks, I vent a little and then I apologize for being an ass (becasue thats what you are when go around constantly bitching and moaning especially about things you can't fix) and then I revaluate. If it really bothers me, I move on, if I still enjoy it, I "fix" me and put up parameters to keep from getting pi^$%, If you follow sports you'll be disappointed. Quite frankly I'm actually ok with KF leaving or getting fired, but I'm not stupid enough to think we will get better. Historically speaking it is much more likely our next coach will lead us to poorer results and maybe even the one after that. Check for yourself. We have been VERY lucky, most teams aren't...and USC, Texas, Michigan, Tenn. Florida, etrc can attest to that.

 

[SigMaintHawk]

Willies is injured (knee issue).

 

[cmhawks99]

Willies is injured (knee issue).

Well Sarge, you know I've always enjoyed your devils advocate approach, however your response albeit likely true is disingenuous at best...he played in 5 games prior and caught 9 passes. Not exactly the numbers of a super star, my point remains as you knew it did....In fact there are 7 players with more catches than he has in only one less game. Or more to the Truth period as he was averaging less than one catch per game with a high of 3. Not exactly the player our really knowledge fans predicted we'd be missing. Though of course you knew that...

Quite frankly had he toughed it out he might be making an impact, but he left.

 

[SigMaintHawk]

You posted he had no catches in last week's game..I posted the reason why.. Kingsbury stated he has a knee injury and is "day to day",in his presser today.

 

[Dumpster fire police]

WALL'O'TEXT'O'LANTERN

Post a tl;dr version.

 

[cmhawks99]

You posted he had no catches in last week's game..I posted the reason why.. Kingsbury stated he has a knee injury and is "day to day",in his presser today.

9 catches out of 228 possible...for him....

43, 33, 28, 26, 20, 17, 15, for the top 7. Has he underachieved? My opinion is the coaches have held him back.....

 

[cmhawks99]

WALL'O'TEXT'O'LANTERN

Post a tl;dr version.

Or don't read....?!?! Just sayin'...

 

[EZ2BJZ]

Made the mistake of jumping in here to see any injury news. I haven't posted during the season in 3 plus years but I saw all the old critics and I thought I'd share this...

1st...most in here know I'm an out loud critic of the "critic" as idiotic & hypocritical as that sounds, but true right....LOL...But Saturday I was pi%$#ed. I'm a defensive guy and to give up those Td's cooked me, I was texting my boss who was there and even shouting out loud I hoped they'd lose I was soooo pi%#!!!! I even emailed a beat writer I interact with at times and I called in late on the call in show which I never even listen to because I can't stand most of the fans. Then, I rewatched the game...

Let me start out by saying I don't think you are too far off the mark. From my experience with Iowa fans (not all but most), and frankly this board, they are the masters of hyperbole--it's either all good or all bad. There's not a lot of in between, which is where reality usually exists. While I agree with a lot of your points, I also think you painted with a broad brush and made some false equivalents in terms of other programs and coaches.

I have usually defended Ferentz, especially against some of the outrageous claims (i.e. he doesn't care about winning, just getting paid), but there are some consistent flaws with his approach to the game, in-game decisions, etc., that I think are legitimate gripes. I also think, for whatever reason or reasons, his recruiting has been very subpar. Fans and "experts" can speculate all they want as to why, but the fact remains Ferentz's recruiting classes have traditionally been some of the weakest in the B1G. Now, to Ferentz's credit, he has done an outstanding job of developing a lot of 2-star kids, or perhaps identifying talent that was overlooked, but the reality is player development and kids under the radar are not something you can count on to produce a consistently competitive team year in and year out. And the fact remains, no matter what your view is on this, Iowa has made him one of the highest paid coaches in the country. So I don't think it is too crazy of an idea for Iowa fans to expect a little more--i.e. with recruiting and not losing to MAC schools, a bottom-feeder Big XII school that's on the schedule every year, and mediocre conference opponents on a somewhat regular basis.

Since his Orange Bowl winning season in 2009, Ferentz has gone 51-34 (and that includes Saturday's win against Purdue). That means Ferentz has a winning percentage of exactly 60% since 2010. The problem is in that time frame Iowa has played consistently easy/favorable schedules. And to me, that is a problem. While no sane person is going to expect Iowa to go 12-0, 11-2, etc., every season, with the consistently cupcake non-conference schedules they play and the relatively easy conference schedules they have enjoyed recently, 51-34 is not good. Period. It's mediocre. And while Iowa had a great season last year, that is the outlier. So essentially, Iowa is paying a coach $4 million/year to produce 1 good season every 5 years and the rest mediocre. I'm guessing most people in the country think that's rather ridiculous. I'm one of them.

Most likely, Iowa goes 7-5 this year, maybe 8-4 if they upset either Wisconsin, Michigan, or Nebraska--and assuming they don't lay an egg at Penn State or Illinois. I guess for me, I expect better than that. I think the other issue too is how Iowa loses. For example, the North Dakota State game was on the coaches. You can argue personnel decisions all you want, but the fact remains Iowa was getting pounded on the ground, the defense was worn to shreds, and they continued to play a base defense and not substitute guys in to keep bodies fresh. That's poor in-game management. Not only that, Iowa was gaining nothing on the ground the whole game, yet somehow they thought they could get first downs and bleed the clock by running up the middle consecutive plays? And that approach nearly cost them the Minnesota game because Minnesota almost tied that game up and sent it in to overtime. I also can not for the life of me understand why Ferentz still thinks after all these years that LBs can cover wide receivers. But when you play a base defense all the time, that is exactly what happens. And the result is more times than not you get torched. I could continue with more examples, but that would become redundant.

So while I appreciate your perspective and think you make valid points, I also think there are legitimate criticisms of Ferentz. And probably the greatest frustration is that some of this stuff is obvious, yet for some reason the beat goes on. Frankly, I don't get it. And while I agree replacement coaches usually are worse, although some times they are actually better, the reality is all of this talk is moot. Because Gary Barta assured that Ferentz will be the head coach of Iowa for a long time.

 

[Y2KG21]

Other than you confused me with extra o's, I really had trouble following your conversation.

 

[Da_Big_Ticket]

TL; DR

 

[bigfridaynite]

cmhawks99 thank you for showing up on the board

 

[Packer54]

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

 

[cmhawks99]

Let me start out by saying I don't think you are too far off the mark. From my experience with Iowa fans (not all but most), and frankly this board, they are the masters of hyperbole--it's either all good or all bad. There's not a lot of in between, which is where reality usually exists. While I agree with a lot of your points, I also think you painted with a broad brush and made some false equivalents in terms of other programs and coaches.

So while I appreciate your perspective and think you make valid points, I also think there are legitimate criticisms of Ferentz. And probably the greatest frustration is that some of this stuff is obvious, yet for some reason the beat goes on. Frankly, I don't get it. And while I agree replacement coaches usually are worse, although some times they are actually better, the reality is all of this talk is moot. Because Gary Barta assured that Ferentz will be the head coach of Iowa for a long time.

I think the generalizations fit because you/we are fans of Iowa, but I happen to know what THEIR fans say and they too believe their gripes are legitimate. Honestly I've seen to many games to remember but I'm giving up on it honestly. And here is why, they are all to similar. I don't see us do anything different than anyone else, quite simply. In years past I would have watched 60 or 70 College, High School and NFL games so far and I haven't watched one start to finish, yet this year. I have fast forwarded thru most all of Iowa's games on replay but its a tired, predictable game every where, and it gets sloppier by the year

And per the recruiting...

I disagree with what he has done with the 2-stars. I think that is unfair to them. From 2009 to about 2011 I think we really dropped the ball recruiting wise. Since then I propose it has been fairly solid, with holes. But more to the point. I believe what we excel at is correctly evaluating kids who were really better players than their initial rankings suggested. I think its kind of crap to the kids, who play as True Frosh, or RS Frosh or even Sophs to suggest we "coached" them up. And honestly a coach that can "coach up" 70 plus kids to the NFL with 25 plus of them being two stars and walk-ons is a "great" coach so really the two don't fit.....

We have failed at Wr, TE depth this year it seems and QB in past years past though honestly some of this HAS to fall on the players. We can't ALWAYS just say "dumb" coaches. As I said before I'm fine with him getting fired, but I'll tell you right now (and I'll be giddy if I'm wrong) our first step will be backward and if history is a tell so will our 2nd one be....

But here is where reality really lies. At 1-3 NW wanted PF fired, now he hung 38 on us and 54 on MSU. What if NDSU’s QB falls down on the QB draw, or Jewel snags him. What if CJ doesn’t throw the pick, we score and win in OT? Its all relative, we/you/people are reactionary. Honestly this is the same coach, with the same philosophy, play calling etc, that won 12 straight last year. The players, the players, the players are what changed.

Carolina was one of the 3 or 4 best defences in the NFL last year, now one of the worst.

Philadelphia was one of the best teams in the NFL a couple weeks back…

A few years ago Mike McCarthy was a GREAT coach now Green Bay fans are sick of him.

And on & on & on & on it goes…call them generalizations if you want, but its personal to you. Honestly it really isn’t to me. When Iowa loses I don’t like it but I have taken steps to NOT let it be personal because every week a bunch of great coaches lose and their fans all think they know why…What's that tell you?

 

[bloodredd]

Let me be the first to thank you for not posting during the season the last 3+ years.

 

[cmhawks99]

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Well you didn't have to read it, right...

 

[cmhawks99]

Let me be the first to thank you for not posting during the season the last 3+ years.

Touche' but to be fair, that is you, not everyone...just sayin' And thank you for taking the time to respond to me, it means you are paying attention...

 

[cmhawks99]

cmhawks99 thank you for showing up on the board

Howdy Bigs, tough crowd, but hey we are all entitled to our opinions right. They have a right to theirs and we have a right to vehemently disagree.....I try to get away from angry, reactionary barbs towards entities not here to defend themselves. I'm not to excited about the season either, but every team that loses thinks their coaches suck. You'd honestly think intelligent people would know this but they struggle with it.

Of course everyone thinks their coach is different and REALLY does suck, thats the funny part...

 

[papabeef]

maybe you need to take your meds.

 

[EZ2BJZ]

I think the generalizations fit because you/we are fans of Iowa, but I happen to know what THEIR fans say and they too believe their gripes are legitimate. Honestly I've seen to many games to remember but I'm giving up on it honestly. And here is why, they are all to similar. I don't see us do anything different than anyone else, quite simply. In years past I would have watched 60 or 70 College, High School and NFL games so far and I haven't watched one start to finish, yet this year. I have fast forwarded thru most all of Iowa's games on replay but its a tired, predictable game every where, and it gets sloppier by the year

And per the recruiting...

I disagree with what he has done with the 2-stars. I think that is unfair to them. From 2009 to about 2011 I think we really dropped the ball recruiting wise. Since then I propose it has been fairly solid, with holes. But more to the point. I believe what we excel at is correctly evaluating kids who were really better players than their initial rankings suggested. I think its kind of crap to the kids, who play as True Frosh, or RS Frosh or even Sophs to suggest we "coached" them up. And honestly a coach that can "coach up" 70 plus kids to the NFL with 25 plus of them being two stars and walk-ons is a "great" coach so really the two don't fit.....

We have failed at Wr, TE depth this year it seems and QB in past years past though honestly some of this HAS to fall on the players. We can't ALWAYS just say "dumb" coaches. As I said before I'm fine with him getting fired, but I'll tell you right now (and I'll be giddy if I'm wrong) our first step will be backward and if history is a tell so will our 2nd one be....

But here is where reality really lies. At 1-3 NW wanted PF fired, now he hung 38 on us and 54 on MSU. What if NDSU’s QB falls down on the QB draw, or Jewel snags him. What if CJ doesn’t throw the pick, we score and win in OT? Its all relative, we/you/people are reactionary. Honestly this is the same coach, with the same philosophy, play calling etc, that won 12 straight last year. The players, the players, the players are what changed.

Carolina was one of the 3 or 4 best deafness in the NFL last year, now one of the worst.

Philadelphia was one of the best teams in the NFL a couple weeks back…

A few years ago Mike McCarthy was a GREAT coach now Green Bays are sick of him.

And on & on & on & on it goes…call them generalizations if you want, but its personal to you. Honestly it really isn’t to me. When Iowa loses I don’t like it but I have taken steps to NOT let it be personal because every week a bunch of great coaches lose and their fans all think they know why…What's that tell you?

I think we agree on many points. But again, the whole false equivalent thing. The Kirk Ferentz situation is very unique. There is nothing like it in all of college or professional football.

Yes, fans are reactionary and frequently don't know what they are talking about. However, we are not talking about a small sample size with Ferentz. The issues are ubiquitous from one season to the next. And they're issues that could easily be fixed. And for the record, I pointed out after the Minnesota game that the only reason fans weren't as vociferous about Iowa sitting on the ball and trying to run out the clock was because Iowa didn't lose. So I'm consistent in my criticism.

Let me be frank. I don't think Kirk Ferentz is a bad coach. I think he has many strengths. And in a large sense, he has kind of been a victim of his own success by obviously increasing fan expectations because of his run from 2002-2004 and seasons like 2009 and last year. With that said, Ferentz also has some glaring weaknesses--and by and large those weaknesses center on a flagrant disregard for adapting his style to fit the strengths of his team from year to year and consistently failing to adjust his style as needed in in-game situations. Too many examples to list.

Look, I get it. I've played football. I know that no matter what X's and O's you come up with player execution is paramount, and there have been some games where you put the loss squarely on the shoulders of the players. I also understand that sometimes you are just outmatched no matter how creative you are. With that said, that isn't usually the issue with Iowa, as far as being clearly outmatched is concerned. They've lost too many games under Ferentz in which they should have pounded the snot out of an opponent. Although they didn't lose, Rutgers is a great example. That game should have never been close. And frankly, Iowa has squeaked out many wins over the years under Ferentz in which teams should have been put away in the 2nd quarter.

I can't speak for anyone else, but I don't expect perfection. I also understand that s#!t happens, and you don't win every game. But I don't think it's unreasonable to expect more than what Iowa has been getting. I mean I'm going to continue living and enjoying my life no matter how the Hawkeyes perform on Saturdays, but if we are gong to have a conversation about Ferentz and reasonable expectations, I'm going to state exactly what I think. And to be honest with you, I'm not sure if I will attend another game at Kinnick until Ferentz is gone. It's not really out of spite as it is the feeling of why should I waste a whole Saturday going to Iowa City, tailgating, etc. and spending the money to watch the same stale, boring product on the field when I can catch the game from the comfort of my living room and watch other games I would otherwise miss when spending the day in Iowa City.

That's just where I'm at. Every one is entitled to think how they want and do what they want. That's just me.

 

[cmhawks99]

Let me start out by saying I don't think you are too far off the mark. From my experience with Iowa fans (not all but most), and frankly this board, they are the masters of hyperbole--it's either all good or all bad. There's not a lot of in between, which is where reality usually exists. While I agree with a lot of your points, I also think you painted with a broad brush and made some false equivalents in terms of other programs and coaches.

I have usually defended Ferentz, especially against some of the outrageous claims (i.e. he doesn't care about winning, just getting paid), but there are some consistent flaws with his approach to the game, in-game decisions, etc., that I think are legitimate gripes. I also think, for whatever reason or reasons, his recruiting has been very subpar. Fans and "experts" can speculate all they want as to why, but the fact remains Ferentz's recruiting classes have traditionally been some of the weakest in the B1G. Now, to Ferentz's credit, he has done an outstanding job of developing a lot of 2-star kids, or perhaps identifying talent that was overlooked, but the reality is player development and kids under the radar are not something you can count on to produce a consistently competitive team year in and year out. And the fact remains, no matter what your view is on this, Iowa has made him one of the highest paid coaches in the country. So I don't think it is too crazy of an idea for Iowa fans to expect a little more--i.e. with recruiting and not losing to MAC schools, a bottom-feeder Big XII school that's on the schedule every year, and mediocre conference opponents on a somewhat regular basis.

Since his Orange Bowl winning season in 2009, Ferentz has gone 51-34 (and that includes Saturday's win against Purdue). That means Ferentz has a winning percentage of exactly 60% since 2010. The problem is in that time frame Iowa has played consistently easy/favorable schedules. And to me, that is a problem. While no sane person is going to expect Iowa to go 12-0, 11-2, etc., every season, with the consistently cupcake non-conference schedules they play and the relatively easy conference schedules they have enjoyed recently, 51-34 is not good. Period. It's mediocre. And while Iowa had a great season last year, that is the outlier. So essentially, Iowa is paying a coach $4 million/year to produce 1 good season every 5 years and the rest mediocre. I'm guessing most people in the country think that's rather ridiculous. I'm one of them.

Most likely, Iowa goes 7-5 this year, maybe 8-4 if they upset either Wisconsin, Michigan, or Nebraska--and assuming they don't lay an egg at Penn State or Illinois. I guess for me, I expect better than that. I think the other issue too is how Iowa loses. For example, the North Dakota State game was on the coaches. You can argue personnel decisions all you want, but the fact remains Iowa was getting pounded on the ground, the defense was worn to shreds, and they continued to play a base defense and not substitute guys in to keep bodies fresh. That's poor in-game management. Not only that, Iowa was gaining nothing on the ground the whole game, yet somehow they thought they could get first downs and bleed the clock by running up the middle consecutive plays? And that approach nearly cost them the Minnesota game because Minnesota almost tied that game up and sent it in to overtime. I also can not for the life of me understand why Ferentz still thinks after all these years that LBs can cover wide receivers. But when you play a base defense all the time, that is exactly what happens. And the result is more times than not you get torched. I could continue with more examples, but that would become redundant.

So while I appreciate your perspective and think you make valid points, I also think there are legitimate criticisms of Ferentz. And probably the greatest frustration is that some of this stuff is obvious, yet for some reason the beat goes on. Frankly, I don't get it. And while I agree replacement coaches usually are worse, although some times they are actually better, the reality is all of this talk is moot. Because Gary Barta assured that Ferentz will be the head coach of Iowa for a long time.

I got side tracked and missed some of your post. So let me address a couple things, every team and I mean EVERYTEAM covers WRs with Lbers pretty regularly so your issue isn't with Iowa it's with coaching period. it's a part of the game and matchups his offenses are always trying to exploit and then when you go heavy with the D-backs they start running that's the matchup my friend.

Second I have coaching friends you don't play inexperienced or inferior players when the drop off is that big just to keep your players fresh it just doesn't happen I know you think you can but it doesn't.

I appreciate the kind words you said about me but honestly I have seen those two Iowa losses play out in living color with 100 different coaches. I guarantee you Iowas coaching staff said watch for the draw play when they went back on the field versus North Dakota State and quite frankly Iowa has never gave up yards in the middle of the field like they have those first couple games which when I apply my thinking cap tells me we got a player problem.

Which we incidentally fixed against Minnesota & PU so really again I know you think they are generalizations but all the stuff you're saying and all the stuff all the fans are saying it literally can be cut and pasted to every loss for every team.

If anything Iowas coaches aren't special maybe that's what you're upset about

 

[the24fan]

I said this once before but look:
If you are looking for Iowa to win 10-11 games every year you're following the wrong team!
KF and Barta are happy to bounce around 7-8 wins a year with the occasional great season to keep everyone just interested enough . The maddening thing is just when it looks like Iowa will finally tank and hit rock bottom, they pull a win out of their a$$ and KF gets a stay of execution ! It's almost clockwork!
It is hard being a hawk fan.. on one hand I want to see them win every Saturday, but doing so is like -as one person said -a three hour root canal!
On the other hand I would just like to see them completely bomb out because maybe then we finally could get some fresh blood in here with some new ideas and direction.
I know many say a true fan would never want to see their team lose but I think it might actually be an addition by subtraction scenario.
I truly believe despite all that KF has done for Iowa there comes a time when change is good for everyone . It's not a dirty word to say burnout after a coach has been around as long as him..

 

[EZ2BJZ]

I got side tracked and missed some of your post. So let me address a couple things, every team and I mean EVERYTEAM covers WRs with Lbers pretty regularly so your issue isn't with Iowa it's with coaching period. it's a part of the game and matchups his offenses are always trying to exploit and then when you go heavy with the D-backs they start running that's the matchup my friend.

Second I have coaching friends you don't play inexperienced or inferior players when the drop off is that big just to keep your players fresh it just doesn't happen I know you think you can but it doesn't.

I appreciate the kind words you said about me but honestly I have seen those two Iowa losses play out in living color with 100 different coaches. I guarantee you Iowas coaching staff staff said watch for the drawl play when they went back on the field versus North Dakota State and quite frankly Iowa has never gave up yards in the middle of the field like they have those first couple games which when I apply my thinking cap tells me we got a player problem.

Which we incidentally fixed against Minnesota & PU so really again I know you think they are generalizations but all the stuff you're saying and all the stuff all the fans are saying it literally can be cut and pasted to every loss for every team.

If anything Iowas coaches aren't special maybe that's what you're upset about

I'm not upset. I just have a different point of view. Good night.

 

[cmhawks99]

I'm not upset. I just have a different point of view. Good night.

Yes you as well, too bad all the discussions in here couldn't go this way. I respect your thoughts. I just think your forgetting the 100s of other games not involving Iowa that looked eerily similar. I guess that's my salvo, Its all just more of the same. I'm not even saying I like it, that Indy game last night was gross!

 

[cmhawks99]

One last thought I do get your thought but Iowa is NOT unique, NW in fact if you hung around the Northwestern board after losses it's almost creepy, you'd swear they were talking about KF.

And after that Minne game their fans crucified their coach and how poor his plan was.

What happened in that Minne game, although it made me sick has
happened 3000 times in football.

Happened last nite with Houston only worse

 

[cmhawks99]

Yes, fans are reactionary and frequently don't know what they are talking about. However, we are not talking about a small sample size with Ferentz. The issues are ubiquitous from one

Let me be frank. I don't think Kirk Ferentz is a bad coach. I think he has many strengths. And in a large sense, he has kind of been a victim of his own success by obviously increasing fan expectations because of his run from 2002-2004 and seasons like 2009 and last year.

That's just where I'm at. Every one is entitled to think how they want and do what they want. That's just me.[/QUOTE]


EZ,

Let me get your input on a couple things, first isn't the losing what's boring ?

I know if I was a Baylor or Oklahoma State fan and I was losing To Iowa State by two touchdowns in the fourth quarter and barely won I know damn good and well I wouldn't be happy and those were exciting games, right?!

Would you?

2nd, in pretty much every game you watch don't the announcers talk about a wide receiver being matched up with a linebacker?

3rd, I agree Iowa has lost some real head scratcher's but how would going away from base formation fixed our getting gouged versus Northwestern & North Dakota State?

How did Michigan state adjust against Northwestern when they gave up 54 points?

Historically speaking hasn't that been our best defense against the run?

Surely you don't think the coaches told them to leave the middle of the field wide-open or for the linebackers or safeties to vacate the middle of the field do you?

How about every game this year where a team lost a double-digit lead in the fourth quarter? Apparently San Diego has done it three times?

See these are all legitimate and historical questions and problems for all teams you're making it an Iowa problem when in reality it's a football problem?

I actually think we both agree it's BS but it happens time and time again and you're somehow placing this on Kirk Ferentz and the Iowa football program?

The losing sucks, but it sucks for every fan of a losing team?

Finally how would of those two long touchdown runs by Daniels have changed the North Dakota State and the Rutgers game?

Everything is relative including the losing...

Hell if I'm a Minnesota Golden Gopher fan I'm wondering why in the hell we couldn't move the ball until the very end of the game? They arent blaming Iowa they're blaming their coaches?

Same with PU?

And if I'm a North Dakota State fan I'm wondering how in the hell we lost to South Dakota this past weekend?

like it or not it's all relative, it's all football & these games all start looking the same after 30+ years of watching them?

so the relevant question is why, and of that I have no answer nor do you but I do know it's not germane to only Iowa!

so yes I'm tired of it but outside of Alabama and maybe Ohio State it seems to be happening to everybody?

these are the kinds of things I ask myself and why I don't go ballistic and this is why when you say Iowa is unique I tell you no I'm sorry they are not unique and maybe that's what's so frustrating for us we thought they were....

 

[hawkeye54545]

When did Cid get an alternate handle?

 

[Suterman]

CMHawks99....absolutely spot on. You get it.

 

[Hwk-I-St8]

I think you can sum up KF's primary coaching fault in one quote:

"We do what we do".

He's said it many times and it's this unwavering adherence to a plan/style even when it doesn't fit the players or situation that is his downfall.

You can maintain your principles with respect to how to approach the game while simultaneously acknowledging that you can't go 100% with the ideal when the strengths and weaknesses of the team don't support it. You tweak things to fit what you can and can't do and recruit to get back to where you want to be in the future.

Similarly, if you've been unable to run the ball and your in the 4 minute drill where you'd really like to run it to run out the clock, running several plays up the middle is highly unlikely to work. You go away from the "tried and true" and try something with a better chance of success. Not only are you taking a path of less resistance, you're also breaking tendencies, increasing your chances of success even further.

Sometimes a "North-going Zax" has to sidestep the "South-going Zax" instead of standing there stubbornly at an impasse.

 

[cocoem]

I think we agree on many points. But again, the whole false equivalent thing. The Kirk Ferentz situation is very unique. There is nothing like it in all of college or professional football.

Yes, fans are reactionary and frequently don't know what they are talking about. However, we are not talking about a small sample size with Ferentz. The issues are ubiquitous from one season to the next. And they're issues that could easily be fixed. And for the record, I pointed out after the Minnesota game that the only reason fans weren't as vociferous about Iowa sitting on the ball and trying to run out the clock was because Iowa didn't lose. So I'm consistent in my criticism.

Let me be frank. I don't think Kirk Ferentz is a bad coach. I think he has many strengths. And in a large sense, he has kind of been a victim of his own success by obviously increasing fan expectations because of his run from 2002-2004 and seasons like 2009 and last year. With that said, Ferentz also has some glaring weaknesses--and by and large those weaknesses center on a flagrant disregard for adapting his style to fit the strengths of his team from year to year and consistently failing to adjust his style as needed in in-game situations. Too many examples to list.

Look, I get it. I've played football. I know that no matter what X's and O's you come up with player execution is paramount, and there have been some games where you put the loss squarely on the shoulders of the players. I also understand that sometimes you are just outmatched no matter how creative you are. With that said, that isn't usually the issue with Iowa, as far as being clearly outmatched is concerned. They've lost too many games under Ferentz in which they should have pounded the snot out of an opponent. Although they didn't lose, Rutgers is a great example. That game should have never been close. And frankly, Iowa has squeaked out many wins over the years under Ferentz in which teams should have been put away in the 2nd quarter.

I can't speak for anyone else, but I don't expect perfection. I also understand that s#!t happens, and you don't win every game. But I don't think it's unreasonable to expect more than what Iowa has been getting. I mean I'm going to continue living and enjoying my life no matter how the Hawkeyes perform on Saturdays, but if we are gong to have a conversation about Ferentz and reasonable expectations, I'm going to state exactly what I think. And to be honest with you, I'm not sure if I will attend another game at Kinnick until Ferentz is gone. It's not really out of spite as it is the feeling of why should I waste a whole Saturday going to Iowa City, tailgating, etc. and spending the money to watch the same stale, boring product on the field when I can catch the game from the comfort of my living room and watch other games I would otherwise miss when spending the day in Iowa City.

That's just where I'm at. Every one is entitled to think how they want and do what they want. That's just me.

You will be replaced.
This isn't high school. They recruit kids to fit the system...every school does.
"But I don't think it's unreasonable to expect more than what Iowa has been getting"...comical.
Finally, you bring up Rutgers.....if you had ever stepped on a college football field....winning is hard. Winning on the road is even harder. At the end of the day the win is way more important than how it was done. Great teaching moments come out of a game like that, but only the fans want to diminish a win....not the players or coaches.

 

[ottumwan in tx]

how mad were you over the rose bowl?

 

[cmhawks99]

I think you can sum up KF's primary coaching fault in one quote:

"We do what we do".

He's said it many times and it's this unwavering adherence to a plan/style even when it doesn't fit the players or situation that is his downfall.

You can maintain your principles with respect to how to approach the game while simultaneously acknowledging that you can't go 100% with the ideal when the strengths and weaknesses of the team don't support it. You tweak things to fit what you can and can't do and recruit to get back to where you want to be in the future.

Similarly, if you've been unable to run the ball and your in the 4 minute drill where you'd really like to run it to run out the clock, running several plays up the middle is highly unlikely to work. You go away from the "tried and true" and try something with a better chance of success. Not only are you taking a path of less resistance, you're also breaking tendencies, increasing your chances of success even further.

Sometimes a "North-going Zax" has to sidestep the "South-going Zax" instead of standing there stubbornly at an impasse.

Here's the problem with the world they see everything through success and failure, wins and losses.

I have two questions for you both of which you will not answer because you can't.

If we don't adjust and don't fix things how did we go from getting gashed up the middle of the field most of the season to crushing the Minnesota running game which they went on to run for 200+ again the following week seems we adjusted?

Second while listening to the radio I've surely heard Eddie at least 10+ times talk about us breaking tendencies and new formations and in fact that shotgun run for 75 yards was a tenancy breaker so how do you account for that in your above theory?

I'm trying to explain to you guys if you watch the game without confirmation bias you'll still be mad that we lost but you'll see all the things that you're convinced are or aren't happening...

Like my friend EZ pointed out he hates it that Iowa covers wide receivers with linebackers but in every single game & I'm not talking 80%, 90% or even 98% but in every single college or NFL game I watch they they have linebackers covering wide receivers....

You'll see when we get the next coach you'll hate what he does too, but only when he loses

 

[Hwk-I-St8]

Here's the problem with the world they see everything through success and failure, wins and losses.

I have two questions for you both of which you will not answer because you can't.

If we don't adjust and don't fix things how did we go from getting gashed up the middle of the field most of the season to crushing the Minnesota running game which they went on to run for 200+ again the following week seems we adjusted?

Second while listening to the radio I've surely heard Eddie at least 10+ times talk about us breaking tendencies and new formations and in fact that shotgun run for 75 yards was a tenancy breaker so how do you account for that in your above theory?

I'm trying to explain to you guys if you watch the game without confirmation bias you'll still be mad that we lost but you'll see all the things that you're convinced are or aren't happening...

Like my friend EZ pointed out he hates it that Iowa covers wide receivers with linebackers but in every single game & I'm not talking 80%, 90% or even 98% but in every single college or NFL game I watch they they have linebackers covering wide receivers....

You'll see when we get the next coach you'll hate what he does too, but only when he loses

Regarding your first question - it's hard, from the outside, so say exactly why the improvement. I'm inclined to say it was as much or more a player improvement thing than change in scheme.

Regarding your second question - I didn't say we don't ever break tendencies...that is just a pleasant side effect of being willing to go away from "what you do".

In general, I was speaking more about offense since that's historically where we've been in the bottom half of the FBS statistically.

An interesting note about 2004, the season that people like to point to as a masterful job of adjusting to personnel issues. Our run/pass ratio did not change much as the season went on. Ferentz even talked about it during the season...even if unsuccessful, we still needed to maintain balance to keep defenses honest. What happened that season was a gunslinger QB who made plays when he had to which helped overcome an impotent rushing game.

I'm talking about both macro (seasonal) and micro (situational in season) adjustments from "what we do" to account for player deficiencies and/or matchup issues.

If an opponent's strength is run defense, they've been shutting you down all game, then relying on successful run plays to cement a win is a low percentage of success. If you're D has been porous, that compounds the necessity to get first downs and should drive a decision to think outside the box.

If you have issues with pass blocking, selecting pass plays that develop more quickly is an option that should be used more heavily.

If you have a playmaker...someone who has that uncanny ability to make plays with the ball, you find creative ways to get him as many touches as you can. Look at how Pitt used Boyd, or Rutgers used Grant. That's serious adjustment to personnel on the offensive side of the ball.

As Hayden used to say "scratch where it itches". Team sports is about maximizing your strengths and exploiting the opponents weaknesses. To blindly "do what you do" regardless of whatever knowledge you have about the strengths and weaknesses of both teams is not maximizing your chance of success.

 

[EZ2BJZ]

You will be replaced.
This isn't high school. They recruit kids to fit the system...every school does.
"But I don't think it's unreasonable to expect more than what Iowa has been getting"...comical.
Finally, you bring up Rutgers.....if you had ever stepped on a college football field....winning is hard. Winning on the road is even harder. At the end of the day the win is way more important than how it was done. Great teaching moments come out of a game like that, but only the fans want to diminish a win....not the players or coaches.

 

[HoustonHawkeye]

You say it is a player issue. Need more talent. The one thing you rarely EVER see, is KF throwing the player under the bus. Good or bad, he just doesn't do it. Some coaches do it to motivate their players. KF protects his players like they were his own sons. Unless you can recruit like OSU & AL, you will eventually have situations of needing more talent to win.

 

[bagdropper]

This is not a very talented team top to bottom with the talent that is playing. The kids may very well be more talented, but their inexperience causes them to make more mistakes in covering their job.

Iowa needs players in their system to know their jobs in the context of how being out of position affects the other players and the team around them. If you're not a fundamentally sound player who 1 play out of 5 makes something great happen, but blow assignments the other 4, the net result is you're hurting the overall output.

Kirk's gonna go with the Steady Eddie every time.

I've grown patient under KF...I have no choice but to be exactly that. To live and die by pieces of a game, every game, is courting "fan mental disaster". It'll do nothing but piss you off...no matter who the head coach is.

And I don't want to be pissed off while watching Iowa play each and every game during any given year. I try to understand how and why the coaches do what they do, but I also try to not necessarily pass judgment on it cause that will just drive you crazy.


Kirk saw a chance to get inexperienced guys some quality PT as a unit. It failed scoreboard-wise. It happens. But the bottom line is it was exactly the right time to do it, it didn't cost them the game, and the players/units who failed will be better off down the road because of it.

 

[EZ2BJZ]

Yes, fans are reactionary and frequently don't know what they are talking about. However, we are not talking about a small sample size with Ferentz. The issues are ubiquitous from one

Let me be frank. I don't think Kirk Ferentz is a bad coach. I think he has many strengths. And in a large sense, he has kind of been a victim of his own success by obviously increasing fan expectations because of his run from 2002-2004 and seasons like 2009 and last year.

That's just where I'm at. Every one is entitled to think how they want and do what they want. That's just me.

EZ,

Let me get your input on a couple things, first isn't the losing what's boring ?

I know if I was a Baylor or Oklahoma State fan and I was losing To Iowa State by two touchdowns in the fourth quarter and barely won I know damn good and well I wouldn't be happy and those were exciting games, right?!

Would you?
frustrating for us we thought they were....[/QUOTE]

Lol, I'm not sure if I will hit...err, no, I'm sure I won't hit every question, but I will try to to reply to the main ones.

As I've pointed out in numerous threads and in this one, I do not think Kirk Ferentz is a bad coach. That is first and foremost. Additionally, I think Ferentz has a lot of strengths. The fact that I point out some of the weaknesses, or perceived weaknesses, doesn't, in my mind at least, diminish that. I've also stated that I agree with a lot of the content of what you're saying. So I just want to reiterate that again before I proceed with responding further.

Question One: Is the losing boring? That was never my point. It was how Iowa loses and in many cases how Iowa wins. My critique was about Ferentz's approach to the game. This whole "New Kirk" "Old Kirk" is a myth the media started and some fans bought in to. The only "New Kirk" that I have seen is going for it on 4th down--and frankly, a lot of times ill-advised. Otherwise, the beat goes on. Like I said before, fans aren't upset about the Minnesota game because the pass in the end zone on the final play was incomplete. Look, I get it, this is Iowa football under Kirk Ferentz. It's not going to change. Pissing and moaning about it on a message board is not going to change Kirk--at least I'm going to assume he doesn't check out the Iowa rivals.com message board for fan input on what to do differently. Personally, I just enjoy discussions like these--they're entertaining to me. I'm not going to lose sleep about it one way or the other. But yes, I do think there are some glaring weaknesses that have been consistent throughout Kirk's tenure--i.e poor clock management, in-game decisions, etc.

Question Two(Three, Four, etc.): One, nobody plays defense in the Big XII. Lol. So you have wild games like that. Two, comparing most things that happen in the NFL to college football is again a false equivalent. With that said, I do agree a lot of your points are valid. But again, my rebuttals are not centered exclusively on the results--i.e. I'm just as critical of the Minnesota and Rutgers wins as I am of any loss. I also understand the whole fan reactionary syndrome--whatever Ferentz would have done would have been the most horrible coaching decision ever if they had lost (i.e.). With that said, I've seen few, if any, in-game adjustments over the years during Iowa games. And yes, I get it, changing things just for the sake of changing things, doesn't always produce desirable results. But the issues many people point out, and they're not just Iowa fans, seem pretty common sense. Yes, s#!t happens. Teams are going to get upset. It happens. But when losses against directional schools, Iowa State, and other inferior competition happen on a somewhat regular basis, you have to start asking the simple question: why? If that's being a fickle, fair weather fan, then so be it. I just think there is merit to having reasonable expectations, and when you lose to inferior competition time and time again, I don't think it's unreasonable to expect a little better. If fans were constantly whining because Iowa lost to the top teams in the B1G or against quality competition (that they never play) in the non-conference, I could understand the disdain for that.

Oh, and as far as the LB coverage of WRs are concerned, yes, that does happen. Clearly, depending on offensive formations and packages, you are going to get stuck having a LB line up on a WR once in a while, especially if you aren't in nickel and dime packages on defense. The issue I was pointing out is when teams, like Northwestern, are constantly in a spread, 4 and 5 wide formations, it only makes sense to bring in an extra DB. Iowa only seems to do that on obvious 3rd down passing situations. With that said, I will concede that point to you.

FWIW, I've enjoyed the discussion with you. Again, I think you have very valid points and frankly your perspective and approach is the best. Nothing we as fans can say will change anything. I get that, but as I pointed out, I just enjoy discussions like these. Hopefully, the Hawks get a big win on Saturday. And for the record, it wouldn't surprise me if Iowa game plans well for Wisconsin and ends up winning. For whatever reason, Iowa always seems to match up well against Wisconsin (most years).

 

[cmhawks99]

Regarding your first question - it's hard, from the outside, so say exactly why the improvement. I'm inclined to say it was as much or more a player improvement thing than change in scheme.

Regarding your second question - I didn't say we don't ever break tendencies...that is just a pleasant side effect of being willing to go away from "what you do".

In general, I was speaking more about offense since that's historically where we've been in the bottom half of the FBS statistically.

An interesting note about 2004, the season that people like to point to as a masterful job of adjusting to personnel issues. Our run/pass ratio did not change much as the season went on. Ferentz even talked about it during the season...even if unsuccessful, we still needed to maintain balance to keep defenses honest. What happened that season was a gunslinger QB who made plays when he had to which helped overcome an impotent rushing game.

I'm talking about both macro (seasonal) and micro (situational in season) adjustments from "what we do" to account for player deficiencies and/or matchup issues.

If an opponent's strength is run defense, they've been shutting you down all game, then relying on successful run plays to cement a win is a low percentage of success. If you're D has been porous, that compounds the necessity to get first downs and should drive a decision to think outside the box.

If you have issues with pass blocking, selecting pass plays that develop more quickly is an option that should be used more heavily.

If you have a playmaker...someone who has that uncanny ability to make plays with the ball, you find creative ways to get him as many touches as you can. Look at how Pitt used Boyd, or Rutgers used Grant. That's serious adjustment to personnel on the offensive side of the ball.

As Hayden used to say "scratch where it itches". Team sports is about maximizing your strengths and exploiting the opponents weaknesses. To blindly "do what you do" regardless of whatever knowledge you have about the strengths and weaknesses of both teams is not maximizing your chance of success.

I Understand where you're coming from and I actually agree the players have improved but that's where the rubber meets the highway it's pretty much all on the players. Our interior rush defense and safety play is as bad as I've ever seen it be the first half of the season and that's not a coaching problem yes I agree they finally might've got their heads on straight and got them coached up but that's not that's scene, that's not adjustments that's just a sucking....

And do you know what Hayden's greatest gift was he was a master salesman & PR guy I always get a chuckle when people start talking about Hayden Fry. Quite frankly everybody was ready for him to go at the end as well people just have short memories. There wasn't anything special and tricky about Hayden's offense, when we had the players to run it it was masterful and when we didn't well guess what we didn't... does anyone remember the third and 17 draw we seemingly ran every time we were in third and long.

I remember sitting in the stands and hearing people groan, point being we remember Hayden fondly and we despise Kirk...pretty similar men, Hayden just had a better gift with snowing people.

 

[David1979]

Chad calling out the coaches and players? that is a rarity

 

[EZ2BJZ]

I Understand where you're coming from and I actually agree the players have improved but that's where the rubber meets the highway it's pretty much all on the players. Our interior rush defense and safety play is as bad as I've ever seen it be the first half of the season and that's not a coaching problem yes I agree they finally might've got their heads on straight and got them coached up but that's not that's scene, that's not adjustments that's just a sucking....

And do you know what Hayden's greatest gift was he was a master salesman & PR guy I always get a chuckle when people start talking about Hayden Fry. Quite frankly everybody was ready for him to go at the end as well people just have short memories. There wasn't anything special and tricky about Hayden's offense, when we had the players to run it it was masterful and when we didn't well guess what we didn't... does anyone remember the third and 17 draw we seemingly ran every time we were in third and long.

I remember sitting in the stands and hearing people groan, point being we remember Hayden fondly and we despise Kirk...pretty similar men, Hayden just had a better gift with snowing people.

Lol. Slight disagreement on that. Hayden Fry in his heyday was known for being wildly innovative and sort of a maverick. As he got older, he got way more conservative. But you are correct that at the end of his tenure there was some groaning from the fan base.

 

[hwk23]

I Understand where you're coming from and I actually agree the players have improved but that's where the rubber meets the highway it's pretty much all on the players. Our interior rush defense and safety play is as bad as I've ever seen it be the first half of the season and that's not a coaching problem yes I agree they finally might've got their heads on straight and got them coached up but that's not that's scene, that's not adjustments that's just a sucking....

And do you know what Hayden's greatest gift was he was a master salesman & PR guy I always get a chuckle when people start talking about Hayden Fry. Quite frankly everybody was ready for him to go at the end as well people just have short memories. There wasn't anything special and tricky about Hayden's offense, when we had the players to run it it was masterful and when we didn't well guess what we didn't... does anyone remember the third and 17 draw we seemingly ran every time we were in third and long.

I remember sitting in the stands and hearing people groan, point being we remember Hayden fondly and we despise Kirk...pretty similar men, Hayden just had a better gift with snowing people.

Hayden's offenses with Bill Snyder at OC were some of the best offenses ever at Iowa. Also, it's always on the coaches. These are the players we recruit, develop and choose to put on the field. You don't see Urban Meyer or Nick Saban saying "sorry, my players just suck". The trick is to find a way to get each player playing at 100%, to develop synergies, and that is enough to pass almost everybody. NDSU is a great example of that.