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I like Koenig

Rudolph

HB Legend
Oct 18, 2001
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Kill me if you please, but I've always liked Koenig, and after following his involvement in the No DAPL resistance—even more respect.

ESPN nor BTN I don't believe showed this, but I think this is very cool:

 
I don't think any player on Wisky is really "unlikeable". The only "unlikeable" about Badger basketball to me was Bo Ryan. Obviously a good coach but hated his court side behavior.
Agree. I love Madison, their campus, their gym. Hated all their success—especially given Gary Close was such a big part of it. Jealous. And I hate, and I mean hate, how Nigel Hayes is reffed. That kid gets to play like Barkley. Barkley-style star treatment on the block. Hate that. And hated Bo Ryan's sideline behavior, but I bet I would have loved playing for the guy.

Hate their style of play, though I love how they rebound. And their on-ball defense is very fundamentally sound. Off-the-ball? They get away with A LOT, and that drives me nuts—especially given we're supposed to be emphasizing freedom of movement. Chuckle.
 
Agree. I love Madison, their campus, their gym. Hated all their success—especially given Gary Close was such a big part of it. Jealous. And I hate, and I mean hate, how Nigel Hayes is reffed. That kid gets to play like Barkley. Barkley-style star treatment on the block. Hate that. And hated Bo Ryan's sideline behavior, but I bet I would have loved playing for the guy.

Hate their style of play, though I love how they rebound. And their on-ball defense is very fundamentally sound. Off-the-ball? They get away with A LOT, and that drives me nuts—especially given we're supposed to be emphasizing freedom of movement. Chuckle.

I've really enjoyed watching Hayes regress the last two years, he went from a likely first round pick to a guy who won't get a sniff of being drafted in two years.
 
I've really enjoyed watching Hayes regress the last two years, he went from a likely first round pick to a guy who won't get a sniff of being drafted in two years.
His draft position may be low, but he'll be an NBA guy. He'll be a more inside-oriented Draymond Green type of player. Can guard a lot of positions. Can rebound vs bigger players, turn and push. He'll get you extra possessions. He won't knock down threes like Green, but he'll do all those "extras" that help teams win. He'll stick in the NBA for a while.
 
His draft position may be low, but he'll be an NBA guy. He'll be a more inside-oriented Draymond Green type of player. Can guard a lot of positions. Can rebound vs bigger players, turn and push. He'll get you extra possessions. He won't knock down threes like Green, but he'll do all those "extras" that help teams win. He'll stick in the NBA for a while.

He's not a particularly great rebounder at all, especially for being a senior. He can't shoot, he's undersized, he's not in the same world as a ball handler as passer as Green nor as a defender. I will be shocked if he makes an NBA roster next year. He's living on his reputation at this point more than anything.
 
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I really thought Hayes could of had his way last night but he just has no effort at all or maybe didn't want foul.
 
It is easy to be jealous of Wisconsin's success, but you have to respect how the program has been run and the quality of the kids that have been on the team.
 
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He's not a particularly great rebounder at all, especially for being a senior. He can't shoot, he's undersized, he's not in the same world as a ball handler as passer as Green nor as a defender. I will be shocked if he makes an NBA roster next year. He's living on his reputation at this point more than anything.
I think you might be surprised. We'll see.

I don't think he does anything as well as Green, but I think he can do them well enough to stick for a contract or two. He has work to do, but he has some tools.
 
I think you might be surprised. We'll see.

I don't think he does anything as well as Green, but I think he can do them well enough to stick for a contract or two. He has work to do, but he has some tools.

Like what? He's an undersized four who can't shoot, that's a real tough thing to overcome in today's NBA, especially considering Hayes isn't quick enough to guard perimeter guys in the NBA. He doesn't bring a whole lot to the table.
 
It is easy to be jealous of Wisconsin's success, but you have to respect how the program has been run and the quality of the kids that have been on the team.
I agree 100% it could of very well been the game plan of Iowa heck Wisconsin took Jok out of the game
 
He's not a particularly great rebounder at all, especially for being a senior. He can't shoot, he's undersized, he's not in the same world as a ball handler as passer as Green nor as a defender. I will be shocked if he makes an NBA roster next year. He's living on his reputation at this point more than anything.

Agreed. Hayes will not get close to the NBA. What would he play? He's not as big or as good an athlete as Green, and not near the shooter. He was an efficient, good player when surrounded by Kaminsky and Dekker, and was always guarded by the other team's worst forward defender. Now he's just an inefficient player.
 
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Kill me if you please, but I've always liked Koenig, and after following his involvement in the No DAPL resistance—even more respect.

ESPN nor BTN I don't believe showed this, but I think this is very cool:


The kid was nails last night. We really had no answer for him or Hayes and was shocked when they didn't go almost exclusively to those two the last 5 mins or so.
 
Like what? He's an undersized four who can't shoot, that's a real tough thing to overcome in today's NBA, especially considering Hayes isn't quick enough to guard perimeter guys in the NBA. He doesn't bring a whole lot to the table.
He has extremely strong hands. You'll kill me for this, but multiple times in conversations with NBA people, they talk about how important strong hands are—as in it is a separating factor.

He has quick feet laterally, and good footwork offensively. The game is built ground up, and Hayes' feet give him a good foundation. Wagner, for example, has terrible feet (right now) for basketball. He's otherwise a far superior athlete compared to Hayes.

It's hard to see his handle, passing ability, general floor game given how Wisconsin plays. But he has the skill foundation, and I think in a more spread game, more flow, he'll be able to do the things I suggest.

Shooting? He shot it okay when he was surrounded by better players. Wisconsin's offense, especially this year, hasn't gelled. Not sure why, haven't watched enough games, but it is off-rhythm a lot. Shooting, especially for average shooters, has so much to do with rhythm. I think Hayes can develop into a guy who can make open shots. If Blake Griffin can develop this skill, so can Hayes. Not saying Hayes is Griffin. Griffin flat out could not shoot coming into the league, thus using him to compare.

Defense? I'm just going to disagree with you. I think he has the tools, and Wisconsin guys are very well-trained defensively.
 
The kid was nails last night. We really had no answer for him or Hayes and was shocked when they didn't go almost exclusively to those two the last 5 mins or so.
Nails until the last shot. Painfully short, was like he wanted it way too bad in the moment. And we were just due to win one of these last-possession deals.
 
I don't think any player on Wisky is really "unlikeable". The only "unlikeable" about Badger basketball to me was Bo Ryan. Obviously a good coach but hated his court side behavior.

I had the amazing opportunity to interact with him in public on multiple occasions....that guy was a douchey of a person as I have ever met, and it is not even close.
 
He has extremely strong hands. You'll kill me for this, but multiple times in conversations with NBA people, they talk about how important strong hands are—as in it is a separating factor.

He has quick feet laterally, and good footwork offensively. The game is built ground up, and Hayes' feet give him a good foundation. Wagner, for example, has terrible feet (right now) for basketball. He's otherwise a far superior athlete compared to Hayes.

It's hard to see his handle, passing ability, general floor game given how Wisconsin plays. But he has the skill foundation, and I think in a more spread game, more flow, he'll be able to do the things I suggest.

Shooting? He shot it okay when he was surrounded by better players. Wisconsin's offense, especially this year, hasn't gelled. Not sure why, haven't watched enough games, but it is off-rhythm a lot. Shooting, especially for average shooters, has so much to do with rhythm. I think Hayes can develop into a guy who can make open shots. If Blake Griffin can develop this skill, so can Hayes. Not saying Hayes is Griffin. Griffin flat out could not shoot coming into the league, thus using him to compare.

Defense? I'm just going to disagree with you. I think he has the tools, and Wisconsin guys are very well-trained defensively.

Hayes has a good handle and passing ability for a college four, not for the next level. Hayes had one good shooting season, when he played with multiple NBA players. The last two years he's shot 29% from 3. He shot 36% from the floor last year as a 4, that's hard to do. He's shooting 59% from the line which is a good indicator of shooting ability. Wisconsin plays good team defense, but guys like Kaminsky and Dekker have both struggled defensively in the NBA and I think Hayes will too against quicker wings, and if he can't guard wings too, well what is he going to do? There's a reason Hayes is still in school at this point, he fell off draft boards last year and hasn't shown anything to suggest he should be moved back on this year. His biggest advantage in the college game is his strength as a 22 year old going up against mostly younger players, that will be gone next year.
 
Hayes has a good handle and passing ability for a college four, not for the next level. Hayes had one good shooting season, when he played with multiple NBA players. The last two years he's shot 29% from 3. He shot 36% from the floor last year as a 4, that's hard to do. He's shooting 59% from the line which is a good indicator of shooting ability. Wisconsin plays good team defense, but guys like Kaminsky and Dekker have both struggled defensively in the NBA and I think Hayes will too against quicker wings, and if he can't guard wings too, well what is he going to do? There's a reason Hayes is still in school at this point, he fell off draft boards last year and hasn't shown anything to suggest he should be moved back on this year. His biggest advantage in the college game is his strength as a 22 year old going up against mostly younger players, that will be gone next year.
Pretty much everything you're saying was said (to varying degrees) about Green, too. Again, I don't think Hayes will be like Green or as good as Green, just think he'll fit somewhere and develop. More teams are following San Antonio's lead as far as team-building and player development.

We'll probably just have to disagree.
 
Pretty much everything you're saying was said (to varying degrees) about Green, too. Again, I don't think Hayes will be like Green or as good as Green, just think he'll fit somewhere and develop. More teams are following San Antonio's lead as far as team-building and player development.

We'll probably just have to disagree.

Draymond Green went from a 12% 3 point shooter as a soph to 36% as a junior to 39% as a senior. He averaged double digit rebounds as a senior, he was one of the lead ball handlers on a top ten team. Green had a 28% DReb percentage as a senior, that is really elite. Hayes has a 15.6% DReb percentage. Green was better at literally every single phase of the game and was still a second round pick. Hayes pretty much has all of Green's negatives, he's an undersized tweener with some athleticism questions without any of the positives.
 
The kid was nails last night. We really had no answer for him or Hayes and was shocked when they didn't go almost exclusively to those two the last 5 mins or so.
Koenig gets my P.I.T.A. award. That is my top award for opposing players. It is given with respect.
 
Draymond Green went from a 12% 3 point shooter as a soph to 36% as a junior to 39% as a senior. He averaged double digit rebounds as a senior, he was one of the lead ball handlers on a top ten team. Green had a 28% DReb percentage as a senior, that is really elite. Hayes has a 15.6% DReb percentage. Green was better at literally every single phase of the game and was still a second round pick. Hayes pretty much has all of Green's negatives, he's an undersized tweener with some athleticism questions without any of the positives.
All good points, while supporting the sentence you bolded. I never, ever look at stats. I use my eyes and my experience in the game.

That's why I'll say it again—we're just going to have to disagree.
 
I like Bronson Koenig just like I liked Aaron Craft,.... Hated him and always wished he was a Hawkeye....
 
Agree. I love Madison, their campus, their gym. Hated all their success—especially given Gary Close was such a big part of it. Jealous. And I hate, and I mean hate, how Nigel Hayes is reffed. That kid gets to play like Barkley. Barkley-style star treatment on the block. Hate that. And hated Bo Ryan's sideline behavior, but I bet I would have loved playing for the guy.

Hate their style of play, though I love how they rebound. And their on-ball defense is very fundamentally sound. Off-the-ball? They get away with A LOT, and that drives me nuts—especially given we're supposed to be emphasizing freedom of movement. Chuckle.


Ha, you are correct. Hayes "go to" move is to bulldoze his way in have the ref give him a "and one". I believe he "only" used his bulldozer move 1 time last night if I'm correct?.........I thought his soph year he would develop into an NBA player but watching him this year I don't think there is ANY way. The kid sounds like a really good kid when interviewed but last year there was just something about his behavior that had me getting the feeling he was getting a bit "cocky". Nothing really flamboyant just didn't get the feeling any more of a tough, hard nosed player.
 
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And his off court behavior.
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Probably would
 
Interesting thing about Wisconsin. It has almost twice the population of Iowa. And it produces some good talent. But when it comes to landing that talent I think Ryan missed out on something like four of the last five 5 stars the state produced? Pretty sure of it.

But he gets a solid four star guy like Koenig.

I don't know what I'm searching for, just thinking...seems pretty important to own your state, especially the smaller it is.
 
Interesting thing about Wisconsin. It has almost twice the population of Iowa. And it produces some good talent. But when it comes to landing that talent I think Ryan missed out on something like four of the last five 5 stars the state produced? Pretty sure of it.

But he gets a solid four star guy like Koenig.

I don't know what I'm searching for, just thinking...seems pretty important to own your state, especially the smaller it is.

I'm sure Ryan's style of play had something to do with it. Wasn't one of those 5 star guys the dude who went to Marquette (Iowa played them last year)? Rayn had the factory going for a number of years there. Steady stream of tall, skilled players who turned into really good players. Wilkinson, Leuer, Bergren, Kaminsky, etc.
 
I'm sure Ryan's style of play had something to do with it. Wasn't one of those 5 star guys the dude who went to Marquette (Iowa played them last year)? Rayn had the factory going for a number of years there. Steady stream of tall, skilled players who turned into really good players. Wilkinson, Leuer, Bergren, Kaminsky, etc.

Yeah, Henry Ellenson. Diamond Stone to Maryland. He got Decker. Missed a couple before that if I recall correctly.
 
I had the amazing opportunity to interact with him in public on multiple occasions....that guy was a douchey of a person as I have ever met, and it is not even close.
Watching almost all BIG games I believe Wisconsin's recent spiral downward has something to do with Hayes. He has a real attitude IMO!
 
I don't think any player on Wisky is really "unlikeable". The only "unlikeable" about Badger basketball to me was Bo Ryan. Obviously a good coach but hated his court side behavior.
I agree here......except Ben Brust. Screw that guy
 
It is easy to be jealous of Wisconsin's success, but you have to respect how the program has been run and the quality of the kids that have been on the team.

Lol. So quickly we forget about the Bo Ryan side thang. And the Bo Ryan Uthoff situation..Ryan was a world class **** stick.

Decker is also a douche. Used to tweet negative shit about Iowa all the time. Other than that I don't really much issue with any of them. Check that, I don't like Vitto Brown. Don't give that man a microphone again.

I look forward to dominating Wisconsin basketball for the near future. This team had 4 senior starters, and their bench was worthless.
 
Lol. So quickly we forget about the Bo Ryan side thang. And the Bo Ryan Uthoff situation..Ryan was a world class **** stick.

Decker is also a douche. Used to tweet negative shit about Iowa all the time. Other than that I don't really much issue with any of them. Check that, I don't like Vitto Brown. Don't give that man a microphone again.

I look forward to dominating Wisconsin basketball for the near future. This team had 4 senior starters, and their bench was worthless.

Vitto Brown can play against my team anytime! Guy is worthless on the court.
 
Agreed. Hayes will not get close to the NBA. What would he play? He's not as big or as good an athlete as Green, and not near the shooter. He was an efficient, good player when surrounded by Kaminsky and Dekker, and was always guarded by the other team's worst forward defender. Now he's just an inefficient player.

Green was a heck of a player at MSU....passing, rebounding, inside, outside. I agree, Hayes is not likely to make NBA roster. I agree with earlier posts...he has regressed...not good in perimeter and having Happ crowds him out of the post.
 
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