I was part of a jury that just acquitted a guy of manslaughter.

[Mayland]

Its borderline, however, he didn't instigate the issue. A drunk, possibly high belligerent individual did. Maryland said the assault charge was the most likely, and I agree, I think I would want to convict on that unless there specific laws or statutes that negated it. Beyond that he is on his property and defending self. Bringing out a gun to portray strength may have been necessary. Pistol whipping . . . questionable. Have 2 guys coming at you aggressively that are drunk and possibly high, yeah its enough of self defense. I understand where you are coming from, and its likely why this guy will go to jail on another charge. However in this case I don't think you can convict.

That’s what we decided for n the felony aggravated assault. Smith ( the deceased) was acting aggressively in the garage and did get into a fighting stance (based on testimony we heard). How we interpreted the law, the fact Abrahamson had a gun in his hand was irrelevant. Should be noted Smith was a 34 year old man and pretty cut up. Abrahamson is a chubby, and at the time 22 year old kid. We found it reasonable that Abrahamson needed something other than his fists to defend himself.

 

[Mayland]

Did it also not make any difference that the guy who decided to bring out the gun, assault the drunk guy, and then shoot him, was likely at least high, and possibly drunk himself when making those decisions?

The younger guys weren’t drinking or drunk based on evidence and testimony at trial. I think these facts did play a part in the situation, but weren’t relevant in deciding guilt or innocence. At least that’s how we interpreted the law.

 

[Pinehawk]

These cases always come down to what actually defines 'fearing for your life'. For some, yeah, a couple angry guys taking two steps forward is enough. How close do they need to get before someone 'fears for their life'?
It's completely subjective. We see the same thing with police frequently.
I understand it is very complicated and no two situations are the same. I would like to see a much higher standard than what we have currently. Which I think just encourages more gun use and people willing, and maybe even wanting, to 'stand their ground', if they get a chance.

 

[bunsen82]

That’s what we decided for n the felony aggravated assault. Smith ( the deceased) was acting aggressively in the garage and did get into a fighting stance (based on testimony we heard). How we interpreted the law, the fact Abrahamson had a gun in his hand was irrelevant. Should be noted Smith was a 34 year contract of man and pretty cut up. Abrahamson is a chubby, and at the time 22 year old kid. We found it reasonable that Abrahamson needed something other than his fists to defend himself.

Smith seems like an interesting dude, reading his obituary. $20 says Jesse was the other guy he got to confront Abrahamson.

 

[bunsen82]

Are you allowed to be discussing case now? I genuinely don't know

The case is over, and a public case. Cannot discuss deliberations until the conclusion of the case.

 

[Mayland]

Or maybe the other guy pulls out a knife or gun and kills him. Or maybe he's a UFC fighter wannabe and bashes his skull into the ground until he dies. There's no law that says you have to find out what weapons someone about to attack you has on them before you defend yourself. You don't want to get shot, stay the eff away from me and don't try to attack me. The dead guy had a choice, he made it.

All things we considered. One thing that ran through my mind is Smith had just been hit with a gun. He is heard to say on camera footage, ‘I’ll be back’. In Abrahamson’s mind, this dude knows I have a gun, leaves to go to his house, and then comes back looking for a confrontation. If I’m the defendant I have to think Smith has some sort of weapon ( he didn’t), but I think it’s reasonable for Abrahamson to think that.

 

[Mayland]

Wasnt the initial aggressor the one (or two) people who came back to the scene to continue the altercation/situation?

Yes.

 

[DeangeloVickers]

Damn. There goes tonight’s plans.

Kind of just known as "Thursday in Minot" isn't it?

 

[Mayland]

Smith seems like an interesting dude, reading his obituary. $20 says Jesse was the other guy he got to confront Abrahamson.

You’re correct.

 

[Pinehawk]

Thanks for sharing Mayland, interesting case. And, thanks for doing your part on the jury. I've done it once before, and I know it is tough.

 

[Mayland]

Kind of just known as "Thursday in Minot" isn't it?

These cases always come down to what actually defines 'fearing for your life'. For some, yeah, a couple angry guys taking two steps forward is enough. How close do they need to get before someone 'fears for their life'?
It's completely subjective. We see the same thing with police frequently.
I understand it is very complicated and no two situations are the same. I would like to see a much higher standard than what we have currently. Which I think just encourages more gun use and people willing, and maybe even wanting, to 'stand their ground', if they get a chance.

That’s a very reasonable opinion. An older gentleman on the jury thought along those same lines. He abstained from voting on our first vote. He was very thoughtful and I think we did a good job of answering his questions, not necessarily changing his mind, but I think trying to give him a clearer conscience of voting not guilty.
I think we all had similar thoughts to the ones you expressed above, and we all kind of ‘wished’ we could convict Abrahamson of SOMETHING to just kind of send a message, but of course that was outside the scope of our duties.

 

[Pinehawk]

I would guess Abrahamson ends up in jail for something else within 10 years.

 

[bunsen82]

I would guess Abrahamson ends up in jail for something else within 10 years.

The majority of these cases including this one, appears to be low socio economic, almost always involving alcohol and/or drugs, and physical violence of some sort, assault, domestic violence or child abuse. Talked to an officer, said that was a crazy amount of the calls they get. And they are usually repeat offenders. So yes, the chance he gets arrested for something else is high, as he took an extremely aggressive approach to this situation. That aggressiveness likely won't change or willingness to take matters into his own hands.

 

[Mayland]

I would guess Abrahamson ends up in jail for something else within 10 years.

I would almost guarantee it.

 

[Mayland]

The majority of these cases including this one, appears to be low socio economic, almost always involving alcohol and/or drugs, and physical violence of some sort, assault, domestic violence or child abuse. Talked to an officer, said that was a crazy amount of the calls they get.

Abrahamson doesn’t really fit this bill though, at least I don’t think he does. He’s white, and from everything I’ve heard comes from solid middle class family. I think he’s just an idiot, and maybe wannabe gangster. That was the vibe we all kind of got from him.

 

[bunsen82]

Abrahamson doesn’t really fit this bill though, at least I don’t think he does. He’s white, and from everything I’ve heard comes from solid middle class family. I think he’s just an idiot, and maybe wannabe gangster. That was the vibe we all kind of got from him.

He appears to be living that way though right? It doesn't matter what you grew up in, its your current circumstances. Just look at the mugshot, completely disheveled appearance, not much grooming ect.

Minot man acquitted in fatal shooting

The jury acquitted Ian Abrahamson of manslaughter and aggravated assault, in the Oct. 2023 shooting death of Davin Smith.

www.kfyrtv.com

 

[bunsen82]

Also Maryland you are lucky, they didn't mention jury foreman's name LOL. You are safe haha.

 

[ottumwan in tx]

dude goes back to a house to confront. dude should know anything could happen. dude maybe shouldn't have gone back. or gone back with the cops. or something

 

[herkyhawk00]

The only thing that bothers me on this is the homeowner doesn’t call the cops and instead chooses to go out and put his own life in danger. I also would have felt more comfortable if he walked out of the house pointing his gun at the two to leave. If the guy charges at him then, he deserves to be shot. I think many incidents would be avoided if a gun is being pointed at you in a situation like that. Yes, I know the idiot got pistol whipped prior to leaving and coming back with a friend, which was stupid.

 

[Finance85]

Dead guy made some bad choices, choices that threatened another's life.

 

[IIowaFarmBoy]

I don’t who Deets is, so no. I live in North Dakota.

Lived in Wishek for a while. Kids dated kids with the same last name.

 

[Hawkman98]

The guy came back after leaving and you gave him.self defense.. there has to be more details.

I agree. Usually stand your ground is in the heat of the moment. Once you leave and come back you are looking for trouble.

 

[Whiskeydeltadeltatango]

I agree. Usually stand your ground is in the heat of the moment. Once you leave and come back you are looking for trouble.

I must have read it wrong but I swear it read as the guy who got pistol whipped came back and shot the guy.

 

[Hawkman98]

I must have read it wrong but I swear it read as the guy who got pistol whipped came back and shot the guy.

That is how I read it, but maybe I skimmed too quickly.

 

[Aardvark86]

Can’t spell manslaughter without laughter.

 

[cubsMDdmb]

Joshua Deets. He was a former Texas Ranger that served as a tracker for the Hat Creek Cattle Company.

Haha, this was exactly my thought. Great character in one of my favorite books.

 

[Mayland]

I must have read it wrong but I swear it read as the guy who got pistol whipped came back and shot the guy.

No. The guy who got pistol whipped caught the dead.

 

[Whiskeydeltadeltatango]

No. The guy who got pistol whipped caught the dead.

So he got pistol whipped, went and got one of his buddies, with a gun, and came back and got shot. That makes sense for self defense.

 

[bunsen82]

That is how I read it, but maybe I skimmed too quickly.

Pistoled whip guy left and went and got a buddy looking for trouble came back and due to being drunk didn’t think a guy that just pistol whipped him would shoot him.

 

[Here_4_a_Day]

Self-defense. Also found him not guilty of felony aggravated assault. Hardest thing I’ve ever done in my life.
I don’t know how self-defense laws are writtten in other states, but I’m guessing he would have been found guilty of one or both offenses in other locales.

Thank you! This is why no liberal should ever feel safe in this country!!

 

[Mayland]

So he got pistol whipped, went and got one of his buddies, with a gun, and came back and got shot. That makes sense for self defense.

Yep. That’s the gist.

 

[Mayland]

So he got pistol whipped, went and got one of his buddies, with a gun, and came back and got shot. That makes sense for self defense.

Just to clarify, the guy who got pistol whipped did not get a gun when he went home, just grabbed his buddy.

 

[joelbc1]

Drinking alcohol, smoking dope, idle time, testosterone and firearms…what could possibly go wrong?

 

[Mayland]

Drinking alcohol, smoking dope, idle time, testosterone and firearms…what could possibly go wrong?

Yeah. Shocking right. Unfortunately nobody was on trial for being idiots.

 

[BrianNole777]

It was also interesting for me to learn the definitions of self-defense, excessive/deadly force, and trespassing. They were all slightly different ( in the eyes of the law) than what I would have guessed.

Congrats on being done with that. It sounds like the jury made the right call.

Questions:

1.) What times of day did this all occur?

2.) Did the defendant and the dead guy have criminal records?

If they did, what for?

 

[joelbc1]

Yeah. Shocking right. Unfortunately nobody was on trial for being idiots.

In America, it ain’t against the law to be stupid.

 

[Mayland]

Congrats on being done with that. It sounds like the jury made the right call.

Questions:

1.) What times of day did this all occur?

2.) Did the defendant and the dead guy have criminal records?

If they did, what for?

The whole thing started at 5:58 p.m., Oct 9, 2023, and was over by 6:05 p.m. Prior convictions did not come up at all. I can only guess that if they did have priors it would have been entered into evidence, but we heard nothing about it for either party.

 

[thewop]

The guy came back after leaving and you gave him.self defense.. there has to be more details.

The guy who got shot came back to the shooters house with a friend after leaving. The shooter didn't come back.

 

[Whiskeydeltadeltatango]

The guy who got shot came back to the shooters house with a friend after leaving. The shooter didn't come back.

Correct.

 

[Whiskeydeltadeltatango]

The whole thing started at 5:58 p.m., Oct 9, 2023, and was over by 6:05 p.m. Prior convictions did not come up at all. I can only guess that if they did have priors it would have been entered into evidence, but we heard nothing about it for either party.

In my head this happened at like 2 am.