I was ready for a cozy winter of hawk bb

[owenhawk]

I agree with most of your post, but Moss’ defensive struggles are overblown. He was a very good on-ball/man defender. However, because Iowa has lacked the athletes to consistently play man defense for pretty much all of Fran’s tenure, they have been forced to stick with zone. Isaiah struggles with defensive rotations and off-ball, specifically with zone defense which, IMO, contributed to the bad rap he gets from our fans for his defense.

I’m not trying to justify poor performance, just pointing out that he wasn’t necessarily a good fit for Iowa’s defensive philosophy

That is probably a fair point. I know we differ on our thinking on Moss but you are likely right ... Iowa's defensive philosophy - which was driven a lot by the lack of viable on-ball defenders - might have hurt Moss. However, he had many other flaws as well.

 

[owenhawk]

Moss may have been the bigger loss, honestly. He looked like a difference maker at the end of the season, prepared to be the guy to take over the team. Fran, rather stupidly IMO, kept pumping up Joe Weiskamp instead of Moss. An athletic fifth year senior coming into his own or a complementary sophomore still trying to find his game? Fran was a dipshit not trumpeting Moss as this year's version of Jok. Horrible judgment on that one.

Huh?

 

[unoHawkeye]

That is probably a fair point. I know we differ on our thinking on Moss but you are likely right ... Iowa's defensive philosophy - which was driven a lot by the lack of viable on-ball defenders - might have hurt Moss. However, he had many other flaws as well.

Most of Iowa’s players have substantial flaws to their game. Moss was no different. His biggest shortcoming was that he disappeared in games, which got a bit better as his career went on. For the games he showed up in, including the NCAA Tournament games last year, he filled his role quite well

 

[owenhawk]

People are talking about CJF as an upgrade?!!! They need to watch what Moss did in the NCAA tournament last year. He was clearly Iowa's best player at the end of the year.

This is patently false. I just looked at Moss's stats for the last 10 games of the years. So fair to say that 10 games would be a good gauge when looking at "Iowa's best player of the end of the year"?

It's in the stretch run, against conference competition and in the Big Ten Tournament, as Iowa is making a run for the NCAA Tournament. Also, including the most important games of the year in the NCAA Tournament. I even included the 10th game, which was a good game for Moss against Maryland with 12 pts and a season-high 10 rebounds.

Here is what you get for an average over that time.

Points - 7.3 (Below his season average)
Rebounds - 3.5 (This is area he actually improved by .5 Rebound over his season average)
Assists - 1.0 (Below his season average, which is already terrible for a starting Guard)
Steals - 0.7 (Below his season average)
Turnovers - 1.8 (Above his season average, which of course is not good)
FG% - 30.8% (Below his season average)
3pt FG% - 30.0% (Below his season average)

So not only was he nowhere close to Iowa's best player at the end of the year, he actually regressed as the competition got tougher and the games were under a microscope to make the tourney and in the actual tourney.

Yes, his game against Tennessee was solid with 16 pts, 5 Reb, and 2 TO's (including one head scratching one either toward the end of regulation or OT I can't remember that was a killer).

But to say things like he was the team's best player at the end of the year - and that he was primed for a Jok-like Senior Year! - is not only completely wrong, it is ridiculous.

 

[owenhawk]

Most of Iowa’s players have substantial flaws to their game. Moss was no different. His biggest shortcoming was that he disappeared in games, which got a bit better as his career went on. For the games he showed up in, including the NCAA Tournament games last year, he filled his role quite well

I understand. I just laid out his last 10 games - responding to Eternal saying he was playing great at the end of the year and that he was the team's best player - and it showed if anything, regression down the stretch. I personally think his flaws are a little more substantial than just disappearing in games (but yes that is a big piece of it).

Like you said, I think it may have been as simple as he was not a very good fit for this Iowa team. They need an SG who can create on his own, who can D up (both in man and in zone) and who can help handle the ball to alleviate our PG's ability (or lack thereof) to be the sole primary ball handler. Moss's flaws revolved around his inability to do a lot o those things.

The reason Kansas might be a good fit for him is because with their player's abilities to break down their defenders and get in the lane, it allows Moss to do what he does best, which is spot-up for open shots and not have to handle the ball or have to much pressure on him. Iowa needs more than that from their SG.

 

[unoHawkeye]

I understand. I just laid out his last 10 games - responding to Eternal saying he was playing great at the end of the year and that he was the team's best player - and it showed if anything, regression down the stretch. I personally think his flaws are a little more substantial than just disappearing in games (but yes that is a big piece of it).

Like you said, I think it may have been as simple as he was not a very good fit for this Iowa team. They need an SG who can create on his own, who can D up (both in man and in zone) and who can help handle the ball to alleviate our PG's ability (or lack thereof) to be the sole primary ball handler. Moss's flaws revolved around his inability to do a lot o those things.

The reason Kansas might be a good fit for him is because with their player's abilities to break down their defenders and get in the lane, it allows Moss to do what he does best, which is spot-up for open shots and not have to handle the ball or have to much pressure on him. Iowa needs more than that from their SG.

In general, Iowa fell apart down the stretch last year - not just Moss. He played poorly, so did others... and I never said he didn’t have other flaws, but those flaws were typically okay for a spot up 3 and D guy like Moss.

It’s ultimately on Fran to build a team with players whose strengths mesh with each other. With a guy like Moss, you need a guard who can penetrate and kick out. That’s as much on Fran, Bohannon, and Connor as it is on Moss.

But despite all this, Hawks still had what I would consider a successful season, and Moss played a substantial part in it

 

[owenhawk]

In general, Iowa fell apart down the stretch last year - not just Moss. He played poorly, so did others... and I never said he didn’t have other flaws, but those flaws were typically okay for a spot up 3 and D guy like Moss.

It’s ultimately on Fran to build a team with players whose strengths mesh with each other. With a guy like Moss, you need a guard who can penetrate and kick out. That’s as much on Fran, Bohannon, and Connor as it is on Moss.

But despite all this, Hawks still had what I would consider a successful season, and Moss played a substantial part in it

Fair enough. I do t want to get in a Moss pissing match at this point. I just thought Eternal’s post about Moss was ridiculous.

 

[unoHawkeye]

Fair enough. I do t want to get in a Moss pissing match at this point. I just thought Eternal’s post about Moss was ridiculous.

Nor do I, especially since he’s long gone from Iowa. Just wish people would lay off Moss a little bit. He was a good Hawk, and left with class, but has caught an insane amount of flak here over the past couple of years, which is a little frustrating

 

[SansSouci]

I got lost with Moss and Jok comparison. WTF? Do you live in a legal cannabis state.

 

[Eternal Return]

The comparison isnt fair to either kid. IM had a very productive career. He was limited on defense and offensively creating for others. However he was a high level catch and shoot kid. I think we all see that Frederick has a much better all around game....Defense, drive create for others, Higher bball IQ and he can catch and shoot. But I would love to have them both playing together this year because IM would of gotten plenty of good looks with Joey Luka Jobo CJ Conner JT EB

You're right it's not fair to either guy. Plus, CJ has played in only two games so far. He'll have some bad games, too, and hopefully people won't get too down on him after that. The truth is, though, the team would have been better overall with both of those players on the floor this year.

 

[Hawk-Fran1]

You're right it's not fair to either guy. Plus, CJ has played in only two games so far. He'll have some bad games, too, and hopefully people won't get too down on him after that. The truth is, though, the team would have been better overall with both of those players on the floor this year.

100 percent agree Luke Jordan CJ Joey Isiah would be a nice starting 5

 

[kzoohawk80]

I really didn't understand the excitement over this team. Granted, I think they'll be better than tonight, but this was still an NIT team coming into the season.

Some of you dumb muthaf&ckers who ragged on Tyler Cook all of last year are going to realize just how much of a loss he is.

How soon you forget about Baer. Bohannon has also barely played this year and doesn't look a 100%. How many game winning shots did he have last year? It's very arrogant and naive to think Cook is the only reason this team doesn't look the same as last year. It's only 3 games into the season let's see how things play out before coming to poor conclusions.

 

[hawkeyeguy69]

I think Jack will be fine once he gets out of that cloud of funk.

Fingers crossed!