I see your side, but the drop off at 125 isn't much from the elite to the 10-20 range and beyond. Mejia would have to beat some hammers to AA no matter what. There isn't the talent or depth nationally at heavy that I'm aware of coming through the HS ranks. AA spots will be ripe for the picking for anyone who puts in the work.
Icing on the cake...
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I see your side, but the drop off at 125 isn't much from the elite to the 10-20 range and beyond. Mejia would have to beat some hammers to AA no matter what. There isn't the talent or depth nationally at heavy that I'm aware of coming through the HS ranks. AA spots will be ripe for the picking for anyone who puts in the work.
Two time world champ just like Spencer. Doesn't have the losses Spencer does.
I think he wins more NCAA championships than Spencer will.
servings
Crow is delicious when served up with humble pie. I've had huge servings of both.
Except if you are comparing them after their sophomore year Lee's titles were Cadet and Junior, while Gable's both came in the Cadet division. An amazing accomplishment, but Lee jumped a year early and smashed everyone.
Spencer has 2 losses while in highschool competition, both occuring on the same day in spring 2015 Freestyle to Daton Fix. 5-5, and 9-6. Daton is also a Cadet world Bronze Medalist and JR world Bronze Medalist, not exactly a scrub. He then moved up to JR's and smashed everyone to his 2nd world title. Spencer is still the only U.S. wrestler to ever have multiple JR World titles, and he will keep adding to his collection for the next 2 summers.
The ONLY other losses I can even think of for Spencer would be his 2013 Cadet World Championships prior to his freshman year of HS, where he failed to medal, and he also lost to Nick Suriano in the 2012 Super 32 finals when he was in 8th grade, and Suriano was a freshman. And I'd say these losses are irrelevant, as it is 2016 going on 2017 now.
why you guys fighting about this they are both going to be hawkeyes
Was thinking Spencer had 3 world titles? Was also thinking Spencer was in the conversation for the best high school wrestler ever? But hey both are great wrestlers would love to Gable in Black and Gold.
I'd love Gable to come to Iowa (that sounds even stranger if you say it out loud), but I'm not seeing the connection. His brother is at Minnesota and he lives there, so I get the argument there. I heard a ton about RBY and him being a packaged deal, so PSU makes sense. Colton Schultz seems like a logical choice. He's a stud, who wrestled at Carver. As a freshman he was throwing Nevills around like a rag doll last year at the Doc B. Nevills scored some late points to make it respectable, but Schultz is a beast. We've had some decent success with Colorado kids with Myles Wilson, Danny Murphy and Nathan Burak.
One cadet + two junior = 3 World Titles. Gable has two. Good chance both get more though.
Lee jumped to Jr. cause he did not make the cadet team...
He is. So is Gable. Meant that he has the same amount at the same age since he is a year behind.
I can't disagree with this. In fact, I think it's as close as you'll get to a guarantee. Gable is about 100 pounds bigger than Spencer right now, and that gap will only grow in the next couple years.
I can't disagree with this. In fact, I think it's as close as you'll get to a guarantee. Gable is about 100 pounds bigger than Spencer right now, and that gap will only grow in the next couple years.
Before we compare, let's allow Gable to make the jump to the Junior Division. It's a whole new ballgame. Talent is higher and the matches go from 4 minutes to 6 minutes. I'm a huge Gable fan, but I've seen Gable gas badly at the trials and also at Worlds and hang on to win. Lee has had only one close match in his last 3 world championships. Gable has had several close matches and a few that went down to the wire including one that he pulled out, so Lee has been far more dominant than Gable. I also think Lee is better in folk style than freestyle, because he's so dominate on top and bottom... I think Lee, for now, is the bigger get, but time will tell and this year will tell a lot as Gable moves into Juniors and six minute matches, before we can truly compare resumes. I do hope we get them both, it would be great bookends in the line-up.
I think Jordan Wood was a Cadet silver medalist, not junior and this further illustrates my point. Jordan was a Cadet Silver medalist and then didn't place at Juniors. It's a different ball game and Wood, in my opinion, has shown to have a better gas tank and I wouldn't be as worried about him with the added match time as I am with Gable. Also, Wood was more dominant at 220 than he has shown to be at heavy. He's a great wrestler, but has not done as well up a weight, although, making a team is fantastic, but winning is that next step that he's been unable to take up a weight and up a division. Here's a story recap:
Wood recently competed in the Cadet World Championships held in Snina, Slovokia. It was the Boyertown area resident’s debut in International Freestyle competition, and he turned in a solid one: A silver-medal finish in the 100 kg (220 pound) cadet division. A 6-1 loss to Georgia’s Matcharashvili Givi prevented Wood, from scoring world-class gold."
I agree with you that Gable and Lee are obviously great wrestlers, but my point is before we compare, let's let Gable go up as Jordan did and wrestle 20 and Under and see how he fares with older, (probably older than 20, since the europeans cheat on age), and in a 6-minute match, when he has struggled with 4-minute matches before we can draw any realistic comparisons. I like both and hope we get both, but Juniors is very different than Cadet and that's my point.
Wood recently competed in the Cadet World Championships held in Snina, Slovokia. It was the Boyertown area resident’s debut in International Freestyle competition, and he turned in a solid one: A silver-medal finish in the 100 kg (220 pound) cadet division. A 6-1 loss to Georgia’s Matcharashvili Givi prevented Wood, from scoring world-class gold."
I agree with you that Gable and Lee are obviously great wrestlers, but my point is before we compare, let's let Gable go up as Jordan did and wrestle 20 and Under and see how he fares with older, (probably older than 20, since the europeans cheat on age), and in a 6-minute match, when he has struggled with 4-minute matches before we can draw any realistic comparisons. I like both and hope we get both, but Juniors is very different than Cadet and that's my point.
Everyone forgets the fact that the reason Spencer wrestled juniors is because he got beat out by an American for the cadet team. It seems to defy logic to me that people are saying Spencer is being more dominant even though he has losses. It seems similar to those that always thought Taylor would beat Dake, regardless of how many times he lost to him.
Do you have any brain cells that are actually functioning?
gs1, post: 3792231, member: 32141"]Everyone forgets the fact that the reason Spencer wrestled juniors is because he got beat out by an American for the cadet team. It seems to defy logic to me that people are saying Spencer is being more dominant even though he has losses. It seems similar to those that always thought Taylor would beat Dake, regardless of how many times he lost to him.[/QUOTE]
I also think it's premature to have this conversation until they have both wrestled at the same level. Juniors is much more difficult than cadet. No one can argue that point and that is my point. Let's see what Gable can do up a Division. To not do so, is like saying Junior high success is the same as high school and that is my whole point. And, I do believe that Lee has been FAR MORE dominant. To say that one day, several years ago, is all you're hanging your hat on...is stupid, his losses that you refer to was on one day. Kids get sick, they wrestle injured, (and the real competitors are not going to make excuses or say, I was sick) or they simply have a bad day, the kids are human... but over time, there is no dispute who has been more dominate in both high school and international--it's not even close. I guess you can go back to Junior High when Lee lost 4-3 to high school #1 Nick Suriano when he was an 8th grader and the fact that Gable lost 6-1 to a high school kid, who was not ranked when Gable was in the 8th grade... is that a point of reference--I don't think so, but it is as relevant as your point is regarding Lee's losses.
It's great to have two young people in the discussion, one that is committed to the Hawkeyes and one that might be interested, so maybe we get both, but if Gable runs the table as a Junior then we have a real discussion, but that extra two minutes and the age difference is huge just as Jordan Wood found out. Personally, I hope Gable does win Juniors and does become a Hawk and I hope the discussion of most dominant continues throughout college, because that would mean mega bonus points for the Hawks.
Crablegs, your logic is terrible. If you have a master's degree on your resume, I highly doubt they ask you what your GPA was in undergraduate studies. The simple fact is that a Junior world title trumps a Cadet world title, so until Gable proves himself at the Junior level you have to consider Lee more dominant. As for your Dake/Taylor comparison, I don't know how that applies. . .
Have to agree. What does it say if a guy who can't make the US Cadet team, losing to the Cadet bronze medalist, goes on to win juniors the same year? That tells you he's better than the cadets? Huh?
Crab. To be fair, Lee was up 4-0 both matches against Fix and let the lead slip away. Fix was noticeably larger that Lee in those matches and case in point, Lee competed and won the Junior team trials 11 pounds lighter than when he wrestled Fix.
Here's what happens when they wrestle at Lee's natural weight.
http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q...DFBD4CD3A4FAE31CE128DFBD4CD3A4FAE31&FORM=VIRE
Here's what happens when they wrestle at Lee's natural weight.
http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q...DFBD4CD3A4FAE31CE128DFBD4CD3A4FAE31&FORM=VIRE
I think that speaks more of the quality of our wrestlers in that age/weight group than it does anything else. Additionally, as so cal hawk fan stated, it wasn't in his normal weight class. I understand that is an easy avenue to go down, but there are numerous examples of athletes that move up in weight and don't get the same results as they would have at their ideal weight. I am not trying to argue, I am simply stating that if you compare resumes, Lee takes it easily. One loss does not take away from his Junior world title, and all of the accolades he has accomplished. Not saying Gable is any slouch, simply stating that up to this point Lee is the more dominant wrestler.
Crab legs it is well documented that Lee bumped up a weight class that year at Cadets. It is also well documented that Lee made weight in a week for the Junior trials. So, he wrestles 121 on a weigh-in that occurred two days prior to the finals at Cadets. Kids on the final day were probably pushing 140 that wrestled 121 on the second day. One weigh-in for a two day tournament and then he makes 110 the next week, no way he makes that weight unless he was light at 121 and keep in mind, he wrestled 110 for another year. He bumped up and lost to a tough kid. No one has beaten Lee since he was 14 years old and the youngest kid in the tournament at his first World Championships (he had to get a waiver to wrestle at Cadet Worlds, because he was too young) with the exception of the time he bumped up a weight class for the challenge and that's the one day you keep citing... Matter of fact, only one wrestler has lasted an entire match with Lee in three World Championships and three World Trials. Lee had to get a waiver for Junior Worlds the first year in that division as well... This is a stupid conversation and you have an obvious agenda, but then again you can say anything you want on these boards.
I get all the points and am not trying to knock Lee one bit. He is amazing and will be great for the Hawks. I just think it's a bit crazy to think that Lee is somehow on a different level than Gable. They are equal in accomplishments in my mind.
And you're certainly entitled to that opinion. Even if it's only a party of one.
