Ames has had a much better product than Iowa for several years.
If Iowa State Can Get it Right, Why Can’t We?
- Thread starter Legs94
- Start date
Serious question for all the posters on this board: without referring to other sports, can you identify three things about the Iowa men’s basketball program that would be enticing for a top-level coaching candidate?
Good nil: no
Good facilities: no
Good fan support: certainly no evidence of that in this century
I had season tickets for 15 years. Many of those years under Fran. Call me “fair weather”, but when nothing ever changes and you are stuck in mediocrity for so long, it’s hard to justify spending your hard earned money, time, and emotions when you know that no payoff is coming. Iowa State fans would and have reacted the same way.
When?
In 2008, Isu was ranked 23rd in the country in national attendance.And they were terrible that year. They went 15-17 and it was their third straight losing season.
Yet the fans still showed up. And they immediately turned the program around.
You are saying things that are blatantly untrue
1994 Iowa was in the top 25 of attendance and ISU was not. This remained the case all the way up to 2007 when it then flipped. So, it has happened, maybe not to the same level but it happened. So what I’m saying is true smartass.
Iowa State had 2 very bad programs. It made the decisions to make changes easy ones. That was step 1.
They were fortunate in that they made excellent hires to rebuild both of them. TJ was an absolute home run that seemingly did it overnight and it looks like he'll keep them there as long as he's there. Hard to see him not getting lured away with a shit ton of dough.
With all of that said, Iowa is in a different place. Neither program is a dumpster fire while neither seems capable of competing for championships. They're basically college purgatory and a school like Iowa is rarely making a change in that position. I think Iowa is most likely letting both Fran and Kirk decide when it's time to leave and that's completely understandable.
They were fortunate in that they made excellent hires to rebuild both of them. TJ was an absolute home run that seemingly did it overnight and it looks like he'll keep them there as long as he's there. Hard to see him not getting lured away with a shit ton of dough.
With all of that said, Iowa is in a different place. Neither program is a dumpster fire while neither seems capable of competing for championships. They're basically college purgatory and a school like Iowa is rarely making a change in that position. I think Iowa is most likely letting both Fran and Kirk decide when it's time to leave and that's completely understandable.
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If he can keep Iowa St a top 5 program and the Big 12 can continue to be a top 3 bball conference I see no reason for him to go anywhere else. Great fan base, Hilton though I think is a dump it's louder than Hell, aren't a lot of other places to go that would be better for him. Plus I'm guessing the Clones will pay him whatever anyone else will to keep him.
You may be right, but I seriously doubt that enough fans, especially the students, even give the program enough thought to ding them for their lack of tournament success. Our fanbase just isn't interested in the basketball program. A change of coaches might make a change in the attitude of our fanbase, but I would need to see that to believe it.
But we have the best women’s fan base in the country. It’s the product on the floor.
That was before the explosion of the smartphone. Too many kids spend every waking hour worrying about their image on Facebook and other social media. The world, and this country in particular, has gone through some pretty dramatic changes in the past fifteen years since Lickliter.
Not necessarily disagreeing with you but yet, I believe we have split our contests against them for the past ten years, including a big win on their home court. This year's version of the Clowns may be the best one we've seen in a long time.
6 Big Ten final fours in last 10 years. 16 Big Ten Final Fours in last 20 years.
Second only to the ACC (18).
Fran's teams are not built for the NCAA Tourney. They are built to consistently outscore bottom and mid tier league opponents with adequate rest between games.
That is an unreliable formula when facing the usually superior athletes of the other power conferences.
Look at his performance in the B1G Tourney (.429). His only championship came from unbelievably hot shooting for two consecutive games. You can't rely on that in a tourney scenario. You have to have the players and scheme to slow it down and clamp it up when your shots aren't falling.
Oh got it.
We just need to make back-to-back national championship game appearances and recruit the best college basketball player ever. Then fans will show up!
I’ll let Beth know.
Considering ncaa tourney runs and competing for conference titles , they have us beat.
Is your point that coaches with 0.500 B1G record at Iowa don't get fired? Yes I agree.
Why not pick a different metric that measures performance beyond being mediocre at 0.500? Nobody has a goal to be mediocre for long stretches of time.
Let's look at NCAA play? Fran is 6-12. How many Sweet16s? 0-for-his career.
Fran isn't going to be fired. Hopefully his contract is not renewed and he's on his way to Butler to coach Jack.
If we are only a great fanbase when we are winning then we are not a great fanbase.
Some years ago an anonymous poll was conducted amongst Big Ten coaches in which they ranked the various Big Ten coaching jobs based on a variety of metrics: fan support, financial support, in-state talent base, facilities, home crowd intensity / home court advantage etc. IIRC, Iowa was something like 12th out of 14 programs, ahead of only NW and Penn State. This is not an easy place to win. The last coach who could consistently recruit great players to Iowa MBB was Raveling!
Fran's ability to consistently win 50-60% of his conference games, year-in and year-out, in what has generally been a very deep Big 10, is impressive to me. That is not a "mediocre" coaching performance. It might be mediocre at Indiana or Michigan but it certainly isn't at Iowa. Would it be nice to win a regular season conference championship or make the Sweet 16? Sure. Are we going to build a statue of Fran or name the court after him? No. Are there coaches out there better than him? No doubt.
But I'm not going to label a coach who can't get to those heights a failure until we actually give the program enough support that those kind of expectations become realistic. Oh and yes I do realize that our athletic department is fabulously wealthy from TV deals. Unfortunately, we can't use that money to pay recruits and players - that is against the NIL rules. Our NIL program isn't that wealthy to begin with and the money they do have is mostly getting earmarked for football.
Finally, the NCAA Tournament is a stupid way to evaluate how good a team actually is. It's insanely fun and entertaining and it is my favorite sporting event but come on. The sample size is miniscule. I think at Iowa Fran is 4-7 in NCAA Tournament games - a whopping 11 game sample. From the 2012-13 season to present, he has won 54% of his 228 Big Ten games. I'll take the 228 game sample size over the 11 game sample size thank you very much.
Now, all of that said, the fanbase has clearly grown apathetic and, when that happens, a coaching change is probably for the best even if I do think that the fanbase's opinion of Fran is unfair. I just hope that at some point we actually address the underlying issues that have prevented this basketball program from being nationally relevant during the last 35-40 years. Until then it will be a revolving door of coaches who are either mediocre (Alford), terrible (Lickliter) or good-but-not-good-enough (Fran). If we do luck out and hire someone great, you can bet that they will be out of town for greener pastures the moment a better job opens up and then we'll be right back into the cycle.
Fran's ability to consistently win 50-60% of his conference games, year-in and year-out, in what has generally been a very deep Big 10, is impressive to me. That is not a "mediocre" coaching performance. It might be mediocre at Indiana or Michigan but it certainly isn't at Iowa. Would it be nice to win a regular season conference championship or make the Sweet 16? Sure. Are we going to build a statue of Fran or name the court after him? No. Are there coaches out there better than him? No doubt.
But I'm not going to label a coach who can't get to those heights a failure until we actually give the program enough support that those kind of expectations become realistic. Oh and yes I do realize that our athletic department is fabulously wealthy from TV deals. Unfortunately, we can't use that money to pay recruits and players - that is against the NIL rules. Our NIL program isn't that wealthy to begin with and the money they do have is mostly getting earmarked for football.
Finally, the NCAA Tournament is a stupid way to evaluate how good a team actually is. It's insanely fun and entertaining and it is my favorite sporting event but come on. The sample size is miniscule. I think at Iowa Fran is 4-7 in NCAA Tournament games - a whopping 11 game sample. From the 2012-13 season to present, he has won 54% of his 228 Big Ten games. I'll take the 228 game sample size over the 11 game sample size thank you very much.
Now, all of that said, the fanbase has clearly grown apathetic and, when that happens, a coaching change is probably for the best even if I do think that the fanbase's opinion of Fran is unfair. I just hope that at some point we actually address the underlying issues that have prevented this basketball program from being nationally relevant during the last 35-40 years. Until then it will be a revolving door of coaches who are either mediocre (Alford), terrible (Lickliter) or good-but-not-good-enough (Fran). If we do luck out and hire someone great, you can bet that they will be out of town for greener pastures the moment a better job opens up and then we'll be right back into the cycle.
42 years young, does that count? When it comes to being an Iowa Men's Basketball fan that might actually count as young
And all it took was the most exciting female player ever (by far) coming to town.
Exactly. Show me a school that doesn't have great fan support when the team is fantastic.
Its moronic for fans to think that they are a great fanbase while simultaneously providing zero support to a 7-1 team.
Fran would easily have been fired at ISU. Course, ISU would never have given him the extension that Iowa is stuck with. As far as getting lured away by a shit ton of cash, that might actually be difficult. TJ has always wanted the ISU job, it is his dream job. Would be hard to find fans anywhere else that are as passionate about basketball as are ISU fans. I have been following ISU basketball since the day Johnny Orr was hired, and so far the team this year seems to be the best team ever in the last 44 years. Considering all the losses this week, ISU will likely be #2 or # 3 when they show up in IC next week. Probably the minimum acceptable season for ISU is to make the regional final, and I actually will be disappointed if they do not make the final 4. Very different expectations for ISU fans compared to Iowa fans that are happy they just get invited.
Here’s a crazy idea I’ve had that is not really at all serious: Iowa cuts MBB, ISU cuts FB. Each school gets to get all the in-state talent there is in one sport
Give me a break. Prohm had some of the worst records in P5 and he still lasted 5 years. His last 4 seasons were 10th place, 5th place, 9th place, and 10th place. It took an 0fer in conference before you finally got rid of him.
Oh, and frankly IDGAF what ISU is rated next week.
Comparison is the thief of joy.
People can bemoan Fran all they want but nothing is going to change until Beth makes a move and I don't see that happening soon. Barta really screwed the pooch with that extension a couple years ago.
People can bemoan Fran all they want but nothing is going to change until Beth makes a move and I don't see that happening soon. Barta really screwed the pooch with that extension a couple years ago.
This is the dumbest argument I’ve seen yet. People will do anything to defend Fran. Women’s basketball until recently had been a game dominant by a few schools. Women’s basketball has been a totally different environment. Fran has coached 30 years. 0 Sweet 16s
Prohm knew before his last season started he would be gone. Fran has what 20 years, and none of them amazing. He would have been fired long ago at ISU.
East Texas A&M
Southern U
South Dakota
WA State
Rider
USC Upstate
Northwestern
Lol indeed.
This ^
Did you come here just to brag about your team and not read any other posts in the thread?
This entire thread is about how Iowa fans ARE NOT happy to “just get invited” to the tournament.
Matt Painter is 17-16 (.515). Greg Gard is 8-8 (.500). Gene Keady was 3-8 (.273)
Sure, and hopefully I eat crow, but the results are pretty predictable at this point.
We’ll see.
B1G winning percentages since 2012 (Fran's second year). Everyone to Illinois has won a B1G title in that time except Iowa. But Iowa has also been top half of the conference every year except 2012 and 2018.
| Michigan State | 0.653 | 160 | 85 | |
| Purdue | 0.653 | 160 | 85 | |
| Wisconsin | 0.634 | 156 | 90 | |
| Michigan | 0.597 | 145 | 98 | |
| Maryland | 0.557 | 107 | 85 | |
| Ohio State | 0.557 | 137 | 109 | |
| Iowa | 0.537 | 132 | 114 | |
| Indiana | 0.518 | 127 | 118 | |
| Illinois | 0.500 | 123 | 123 | |
| Northwestern | 0.376 | 92 | 153 | |
| Penn State | 0.363 | 89 | 156 | |
| Nebraska | 0.351 | 86 | 159 | |
| Rutgers | 0.344 | 66 | 126 | |
| Minnesota | 0.339 | 83 | 162 |
My favorite for the NCAA argument is Virginia. Since 2018, Virginia is 6-3 in the NCAA. They have a national title, 3 first round losses as #1, #4, and #4 seeds, and two NIT appearances. Would you like to be Virginia? I would probably say yes, because they have a title, but that is 6 years of 'crappy' basketball by NCAA tournament standards.
Exactly.
Funny how ISU can go from a winless conference record to a Sweet 16 in a new coach’s first year (and 2 in first 3 years), but (according to some misguided fans) Iowa can’t hope to do any better than Fran, who has never been to a Sweet 16 in 28 years as a head coach. Because remember what happened when they ran Tom Davis out of town, Lickliter, Iowa can’t recruit players to compete with the blue bloods, who are we gonna get that would do better, the next coach might be worse, etc. etc. etc.
The University of Iowa: where “good enough” is good enough.
How about this:
Iowa cuts MBB and FB and concentrates on WBB, wrestling, and field hockey. Save a ton of money on paying their fossilized coaches.
Iowa State fans kinda like their FB team.
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