If we’d never gone to the F4 in 79-80, would we even be this way?

[hawksense]

Glad we went and all. And, Lester getting hurt was the end of it. But, had we not gone that far, would our expectations be so over the top?

It’s like we thought we belonged after that, and we don’t.

We don’t pull the players, no discredit to all the tremendous ones who’ve followed.

We definitely don’t get big time coaches lining up to take the reins of our program. We ran Lute out of town.

We’re Iowa. Flyover Iowa. Cornfields Iowa. Trapped in time Iowa. And, I don’t think we’re making roads to be any better.

Hell, people shit on players that play here. Give their all and stack up some real nice numbers.

Not good enough.

Read that sentence again.

It’s gonna take a serious commitment from the top down to change the big picture, if they even want to.

Throw rocks.

 

[Hawk_4shur]

There would be no difference in fan "expectations". Every fan wants their team to do better. For example, the fans of the loser tonight will be very disappointed, and a large % will be pissed.

Make no mistake, I am ready for a program reboot, but I don't think changes made by the U will make Iowa into a championship program.

 

[LetsGoHawks83]

Expectations to make the sweet 16 more often than every 25 years has NOTHING to do with a Final Four run over 40 years ago.

(how many years now since the last sweet 16?).

 

[MarkRules]

The Iowa basketball program use to aspire to do great things. You don't achieve it every year, but you do occasionally. Whether it is the final 4 in '55 and 56, a Big Ten title in '68 (shared) and '70 (14-0!), a Big Ten title in '79 (shared), the final 4 in '80, and the elite 8 in '87, we have had our moments.

Then those moments stopped.

Then, over the years, we started hearing things like "we are flyover country", "we're just Iowa", "body of work is good". We, the fan base, have been asked to embrace being slightly above average. Some have, most have reduced their interest, attendance and money contributions.

Do we ever even hear that we are trying to do something great? When Fran came to Iowa, it was "Let's get mad again". That was a fine short-term aspiration. Then the next step; never even discussed.

When Hayden came to Iowa football, it was "We're going to win." (by the way, he said that on the floor at halftime of a basketball game because Iowa basketball was a big deal).

It's time for the Hayden Fry of basketball to show up at Iowa with the full support of university administration.

 

[Mitch122]

Glad we went and all. And, Lester getting hurt was the end of it. But, had we not gone that far, would our expectations be so over the top?

It’s like we thought we belonged after that, and we don’t.

We don’t pull the players, no discredit to all the tremendous ones who’ve followed.

We definitely don’t get big time coaches lining up to take the reins of our program. We ran Lute out of town.

We’re Iowa. Flyover Iowa. Cornfields Iowa. Trapped in time Iowa. And, I don’t think we’re making roads to be any better.

Hell, people shit on players that play here. Give their all and stack up some real nice numbers.

Not good enough.

Read that sentence again.

It’s gonna take a serious commitment from the top down to change the big picture, if they even want to.

Throw rocks.

Get the F out of here with that. I wasn’t even alive in 80 so that has zero impact on my expectations. Wanting to get to a sweet 16 more than once every 30 years is not “over the top” expectations.

 

[EvilMonkeyInTheCloset]

Glad we went and all. And, Lester getting hurt was the end of it. But, had we not gone that far, would our expectations be so over the top?

It’s like we thought we belonged after that, and we don’t.

We don’t pull the players, no discredit to all the tremendous ones who’ve followed.

We definitely don’t get big time coaches lining up to take the reins of our program. We ran Lute out of town.

We’re Iowa. Flyover Iowa. Cornfields Iowa. Trapped in time Iowa. And, I don’t think we’re making roads to be any better.

Hell, people shit on players that play here. Give their all and stack up some real nice numbers.

Not good enough.

Read that sentence again.

It’s gonna take a serious commitment from the top down to change the big picture, if they even want to.

Throw rocks.

No.

 

[stillh8unlv]

Glad we went and all. And, Lester getting hurt was the end of it. But, had we not gone that far, would our expectations be so over the top?

It’s like we thought we belonged after that, and we don’t.

We don’t pull the players, no discredit to all the tremendous ones who’ve followed.

We definitely don’t get big time coaches lining up to take the reins of our program. We ran Lute out of town.

We’re Iowa. Flyover Iowa. Cornfields Iowa. Trapped in time Iowa. And, I don’t think we’re making roads to be any better.

Hell, people shit on players that play here. Give their all and stack up some real nice numbers.

Not good enough.

Read that sentence again.

It’s gonna take a serious commitment from the top down to change the big picture, if they even want to.

Throw rocks.

Just look at all other programs that have at least one sweet 16 since Iowa's last one....it's not like it's been just all the 'elite coaches' and 'top talent' schools.

Hell, the last few years there's been a double digit seed in the final four. It's not like we'd be in rarified air by making a sweet 16/Elite 8 run once every 30+ years

 

[hawksense]

Okay. We’re not lucky, then. We need a luck coach.

 

[Dr. Phil Seuss]

Glad we went and all. And, Lester getting hurt was the end of it. But, had we not gone that far, would our expectations be so over the top?

It’s like we thought we belonged after that, and we don’t.

We don’t pull the players, no discredit to all the tremendous ones who’ve followed.

We definitely don’t get big time coaches lining up to take the reins of our program. We ran Lute out of town.

We’re Iowa. Flyover Iowa. Cornfields Iowa. Trapped in time Iowa. And, I don’t think we’re making roads to be any better.

Hell, people shit on players that play here. Give their all and stack up some real nice numbers.

Not good enough.

Read that sentence again.

It’s gonna take a serious commitment from the top down to change the big picture, if they even want to.

Throw rocks.

Tons of shitty Midwestern locales field really good teams. Iowa was a basketball program to be reckoned with for a good 12+ years there in the late seventies through the early 90s.

Now, we are all such battered wives we make excuses for our mediocre coach not getting out of the opening weekend. It’s now been 25 years since that happened. It is laughable at this point. Iowa is a well funded program that has no business having that kind of drought.

 

[TampaHawkfan]

You lost me at "over the top expectations". Expecting Iowa to get out of the first weekend of the NCAA tournament every now and then is not unreasonable. It's been a quarter of a century.

And no, I don't think a FF from 45 years ago has anything to do with the expectations in 2024. I'm too young to even have any memory of it.

 

[Herky T Hawk]

Anyone old enough to remember that Final Four is 50 years old.

Kansas, Texas Tech, Wisconsin, Wichita State, Oklahoma, West Virginia, and Okie State are all in flyover country and have managed Final Four appearances this century. Kansas doesn't really belong in that group with their history, but you can't tell me that Lawrence is a better city than Iowa City.

Butler, VCU, George Mason, Memphis, Loyola, San Diego State, and Florida Atlantic are all small schools that have also made a Final Four this century.

If I went and looked through the two decades between our last Final Four and this century, I'd be able to pull many more schools on both of those lists.

MSU, Michigan, Illinois, Wisconsin, Purdue, Indiana, OSU, Minnesota(cheaters) are all Big Ten teams that have made at least one Final Four since our last one. Only NW and us aren't on that list of the original Big Ten teams back in 1980. Purdue and Minnesota are the only ones on that list that don't have multiple Final Fours since our last one.

Long story short, no 1980 is not the problem. Chris Street dying really changed Dr. Tom as a coach. Bad consecutive hires in Alford and Lick hurt us for a decade. And sticking with Fran this long when we know his ceiling now is another hindrance. We haven't had elite level recruiting since the 80s. We haven't signed a McDonald's All American out of high school in 30 years.

 

[83Hawk]

Glad we went and all. And, Lester getting hurt was the end of it. But, had we not gone that far, would our expectations be so over the top?

It’s like we thought we belonged after that, and we don’t.

We don’t pull the players, no discredit to all the tremendous ones who’ve followed.

We definitely don’t get big time coaches lining up to take the reins of our program. We ran Lute out of town.

We’re Iowa. Flyover Iowa. Cornfields Iowa. Trapped in time Iowa. And, I don’t think we’re making roads to be any better.

Hell, people shit on players that play here. Give their all and stack up some real nice numbers.

Not good enough.

Read that sentence again.

It’s gonna take a serious commitment from the top down to change the big picture, if they even want to.

Throw rocks.

Bad take.

 

[TampaHawkfan]

Anyone old enough to remember that Final Four is 50 years old.

Kansas, Texas Tech, Wisconsin, Wichita State, Oklahoma, West Virginia, and Okie State are all in flyover country and have managed Final Four appearances this century. Kansas doesn't really belong in that group with their history, but you can't tell me that Lawrence is a better city than Iowa City.

Butler, VCU, George Mason, Memphis, Loyola, San Diego State, and Florida Atlantic are all small schools that have also made a Final Four this century.

If I went and looked through the two decades between our last Final Four and this century, I'd be able to pull many more schools on both of those lists.

MSU, Michigan, Illinois, Wisconsin, Purdue, Indiana, OSU, Minnesota(cheaters) are all Big Ten teams that have made at least one Final Four since our last one. Only NW and us aren't on that list of the original Big Ten teams back in 1980. Purdue and Minnesota are the only ones on that list that don't have multiple Final Fours since our last one.

Long story short, no 1980 is not the problem. Chris Street dying really changed Dr. Tom as a coach. Bad consecutive hires in Alford and Lick hurt us for a decade. And sticking with Fran this long when we know his ceiling now is another hindrance. We haven't had elite level recruiting since the 80s. We haven't signed a McDonald's All American out of high school in 30 years.

Us and Northwestern. Yeah. Iowa needs to step it up a bit. Northwestern has historically been nearly an impossible place to win. They didn't even give out athletic scholarships at one time IIRC, so I almost don't even include them on lists like this. Things are improving for them, though, in recent times.

Iowa has definitely been a better program than NW, and remains so IMO, but Iowa is the epitome of high floor/low ceiling.

 

[Herky T Hawk]

Us and Northwestern. Yeah. Iowa needs to step it up a bit. Northwestern has historically been nearly an impossible place to win. They didn't even give out athletic scholarships at one time IIRC, so I almost don't even include them on lists like this. Things are improving for them, though, in recent times.

Iowa has definitely been a better program than NW, and remains so IMO, but Iowa is the epitome of high floor/low ceiling.

Since NW made their first tourney in 2017, they have more tourney wins than we do. And they've done that in one fewer appearance with generally harder seeding than us.

2019	No. 10	First Round Second Round	No. 7 Cincinnati No. 2 Tennessee	W 79–72 L 77–83 OT
2021	No. 2	First Round Second Round	No. 15 Grand Canyon No. 7 Oregon	W 86–74 L 80–95
2022	No. 5	First Round	No. 12 Richmond	L 63–67
2023	No. 8	First Round	No. 9 Auburn	L 75–83

2017	No. 8	First Round Second Round	No. 9 Vanderbilt No. 1 Gonzaga	W 68–66 L 73–79
2023	No. 7	First Round Second Round	No. 10 Boise State No. 2 UCLA	W 75–67 L 63–68
2024	No. 9	First Round Second Round	No. 8 Florida Atlantic No. 1 UConn	W 77–65 OT L 58–75

 

[Moral]

 

[NI hawk]

You lost me at "over the top expectations". Expecting Iowa to get out of the first weekend of the NCAA tournament every now and then is not unreasonable. It's been a quarter of a century.

And no, I don't think a FF from 45 years ago has anything to do with the expectations in 2024. I'm too young to even have any memory of it.

I remember it and it was a blast.

 

[GOHOX69]

Iowa can still make the final 4. The place isn't some backwater dump. It has to start with the administration and there has to be incentive to correct things. The NIL, which I think is insane, doesn't help. Prior to the NIL, which is largely lawless, I thought Iowa could right the ship. Now, I am circumspect. Money I guess talks. Sad.

 

[CeMar_Clone]

Glad we went and all. And, Lester getting hurt was the end of it. But, had we not gone that far, would our expectations be so over the top?

It’s like we thought we belonged after that, and we don’t.

We don’t pull the players, no discredit to all the tremendous ones who’ve followed.

We definitely don’t get big time coaches lining up to take the reins of our program. We ran Lute out of town.

We’re Iowa. Flyover Iowa. Cornfields Iowa. Trapped in time Iowa. And, I don’t think we’re making roads to be any better.

Hell, people shit on players that play here. Give their all and stack up some real nice numbers.

Not good enough.

Read that sentence again.

It’s gonna take a serious commitment from the top down to change the big picture, if they even want to.

Throw rocks.

Lute did well, Dr. Tom did well. The problem is Iowa has held onto Fran way too long. After 4-5 years , you can get a feeling for where the program is headed. Play exciting basketball, get some players to the NBA, and you will get MORE players considering Iowa. I am surprised that the Iowa AD still has not fired Fran. Does she really think Fran is the future for Iowa BB?

 

[Cydkar]

Glad we went and all. And, Lester getting hurt was the end of it. But, had we not gone that far, would our expectations be so over the top?

It’s like we thought we belonged after that, and we don’t.

We don’t pull the players, no discredit to all the tremendous ones who’ve followed.

We definitely don’t get big time coaches lining up to take the reins of our program. We ran Lute out of town.

We’re Iowa. Flyover Iowa. Cornfields Iowa. Trapped in time Iowa. And, I don’t think we’re making roads to be any better.

Hell, people shit on players that play here. Give their all and stack up some real nice numbers.

Not good enough.

Read that sentence again.

It’s gonna take a serious commitment from the top down to change the big picture, if they even want to.

Throw rocks.

This is bait.

 

[DewHawk]

Lute did well, Dr. Tom did well. The problem is Iowa has held onto Fran way too long. After 4-5 years , you can get a feeling for where the program is headed. Play exciting basketball, get some players to the NBA, and you will get MORE players considering Iowa. I am surprised that the Iowa AD still has not fired Fran. Does she really think Fran is the future for Iowa BB?

McCaffery is way past his discard date IMO.

 

[hawksense]

Long story short, no 1980 is not the problem. Chris Street dying really changed Dr. Tom as a coach. Bad consecutive hires in Alford and Lick hurt us for a decade. And sticking with Fran this long when we know his ceiling now is another hindrance. We haven't had elite level recruiting since the 80s. We haven't signed a McDonald's All American out of high school in 30 years.

Anyone old enough to remember that Final Four is 50 years old.

Kansas, Texas Tech, Wisconsin, Wichita State, Oklahoma, West Virginia, and Okie State are all in flyover country and have managed Final Four appearances this century. Kansas doesn't really belong in that group with their history, but you can't tell me that Lawrence is a better city than Iowa City.

Butler, VCU, George Mason, Memphis, Loyola, San Diego State, and Florida Atlantic are all small schools that have also made a Final Four this century.

If I went and looked through the two decades between our last Final Four and this century, I'd be able to pull many more schools on both of those lists.

MSU, Michigan, Illinois, Wisconsin, Purdue, Indiana, OSU, Minnesota(cheaters) are all Big Ten teams that have made at least one Final Four since our last one. Only NW and us aren't on that list of the original Big Ten teams back in 1980. Purdue and Minnesota are the only ones on that list that don't have multiple Final Fours since our last one.

Long story short, no 1980 is not the problem. Chris Street dying really changed Dr. Tom as a coach. Bad consecutive hires in Alford and Lick hurt us for a decade. And sticking with Fran this long when we know his ceiling now is another hindrance. We haven't had elite level recruiting since the 80s. We haven't signed a McDonald's All American out of high school in 30 years.

This last part summarizes it well.

 

[TampaHawkfan]

I remember it and it was a blast.

No doubt. I DO recall the Elite 8 and Sweet 16 in the 1987 and 1988 seasons, though. And '99. Even getting that far is a lot of fun. A Final Four would be quite a thrill.

At least the women have given me a taste. I thank them for that!

 

[TampaHawkfan]

Since NW made their first tourney in 2017, they have more tourney wins than we do. And they've done that in one fewer appearance with generally harder seeding than us.

2019	No. 10	First Round Second Round	No. 7 Cincinnati No. 2 Tennessee	W 79–72 L 77–83 OT
2021	No. 2	First Round Second Round	No. 15 Grand Canyon No. 7 Oregon	W 86–74 L 80–95
2022	No. 5	First Round	No. 12 Richmond	L 63–67
2023	No. 8	First Round	No. 9 Auburn	L 75–83

2017	No. 8	First Round Second Round	No. 9 Vanderbilt No. 1 Gonzaga	W 68–66 L 73–79
2023	No. 7	First Round Second Round	No. 10 Boise State No. 2 UCLA	W 75–67 L 63–68
2024	No. 9	First Round Second Round	No. 8 Florida Atlantic No. 1 UConn	W 77–65 OT L 58–75

I forgot about the Boise State win of theirs. So they're outdoing us in March, now. Good for them, but it chaps my ass.

 

[Titanhawk2]

The women have now done what the men have already done - lost two championship games in a row

 

[General Tso]

Expectations to make the sweet 16 more often than every 25 years has NOTHING to do with a Final Four run over 40 years ago.

(how many years now since the last sweet 16?).

Bingo. Nobody is expecting FF, just an occasional SS. That doesn't seem unreasonable for a school with the resources of Iowa

 

[jonesy5960]

Yeah. Without almost winning a championship over 40 years ago our perspective would be completely different today. 🙄

 

[83Hawk]

The women have now done what the men have already done - lost two championship games in a row

The men have only been to one championship game.

 

[BioHawk]

The majority of Iowa fans have no memory of Iowa men's teams ever making the final four so it wouldn't make any difference. I think it's the lack of a pro team to be fully invested in that makes Iowa fans the way they are.

 

[Herky T Hawk]

The women have now done what the men have already done - lost two championship games in a row

When did the men lose two championship games in a row? They only lost in the finals once to Bill Russell in 1956. Otherwise they have two semi-final losses to LaSalle in 1955 and Louisville in 1980, where they also lost the 3rd place game both times.

 

[Packer54]

Late 70s and the 80s were fun for Iowa mens basketball. I was at U of I when they went to the final 4 in 80. With Lute there you just felt like this was going to happen a bunch.....alas....Lute off to AZ and frankly one of the best chance we had at winning a Natty was the year losing to UNLV coming from way behind to beat us in the Regional Finals in Seattle.....I was just sick after that game. And Indiana won it all that year and we split with them. Oh well

 

[HawkBall23]

A Power 5 school's fans wanting to just reach a Sweet16 after 25 loooooooong years, let alone advancing past that point ....


We are such entitled & demanding assholes.

 

[jberesford]

Glad we went and all. And, Lester getting hurt was the end of it. But, had we not gone that far, would our expectations be so over the top?

It’s like we thought we belonged after that, and we don’t.

We don’t pull the players, no discredit to all the tremendous ones who’ve followed.

We definitely don’t get big time coaches lining up to take the reins of our program. We ran Lute out of town.

We’re Iowa. Flyover Iowa. Cornfields Iowa. Trapped in time Iowa. And, I don’t think we’re making roads to be any better.

Hell, people shit on players that play here. Give their all and stack up some real nice numbers.

Not good enough.

Read that sentence again.

It’s gonna take a serious commitment from the top down to change the big picture, if they even want to.

Throw rocks.

That was before I was born. I'm 41 now. There have been zero championships and no worthwhile tournament runs in my day. That's unacceptable. As we've seen with the women, the fan base is there and can come to life if there's something to get excited about. Iowa basketball is just groundhog day. Same mediocre results every year despite having some expectations every 5 or so, but they all generally end the same way.

People aren't tempered by accomplishments almost half a century ago. They're just apathetic to the fact there haven't been any since.

 

[hawksense]

That was before I was born. I'm 41 now. There have been zero championships and no worthwhile tournament runs in my day. That's unacceptable. As we've seen with the women, the fan base is there and can come to life if there's something to get excited about. Iowa basketball is just groundhog day. Same mediocre results every year despite having some expectations every 5 or so, but they all generally end the same way.

People aren't tempered by accomplishments almost half a century ago. They're just apathetic to the fact there haven't been any since.

You’ve done some of my work for me. Not just you. There have been others. Apathy and lack of results tell me my original premise was, at least, in the ballpark. 41 years. Thanks for the discussion, to all those who chimed in. And, no need for dickishness. Thoughtful feedback plays just as well.

 

[Dr. Phil Seuss]

That was before I was born. I'm 41 now. There have been zero championships and no worthwhile tournament runs in my day. That's unacceptable. As we've seen with the women, the fan base is there and can come to life if there's something to get excited about. Iowa basketball is just groundhog day. Same mediocre results every year despite having some expectations every 5 or so, but they all generally end the same way.

People aren't tempered by accomplishments almost half a century ago. They're just apathetic to the fact there haven't been any since.

If you’re 41, the 1999 run was in your day and decent. Lost a good game to the eventual champion after a solid win against a top 15 Arkansas team. If not for that run, Iowa basketball fans from our generation would truly have no NCAA tournament memories of note, only nightmares and what could have beens.

 

[NI hawk]

Late 70s and the 80s were fun for Iowa mens basketball. I was at U of I when they went to the final 4 in 80. With Lute there you just felt like this was going to happen a bunch.....alas....Lute off to AZ and frankly one of the best chance we had at winning a Natty was the year losing to UNLV coming from way behind to beat us in the Regional Finals in Seattle.....I was just sick after that game. And Indiana won it all that year and we split with them. Oh well

Beat Indiana twice in 1981 and Indiana won it all that year.
Beat Kansas by 19 during 1987-88 season and Kansas won it all that year.

 

[kceasthawk]

The women have now done what the men have already done - lost two championship games in a row

Lol..70 years ago. Even Fran wasn't alive then. Its hardly relevant at this point.....

 

[hawksense]

We are not amongst basketball hierarchy. Yes, we should have randomly done better in the dance, by now. It appears we’ve learned nothing about what breeds success in the big tourney.

 

[cmhawks99]

Tons of shitty Midwestern locales field really good teams. Iowa was a basketball program to be reckoned with for a good 12+ years there in the late seventies through the early 90s.

Now, we are all such battered wives we make excuses for our mediocre coach not getting out of the opening weekend. It’s now been 25 years since that happened. It is laughable at this point. Iowa is a well funded program that has no business having that kind of drought.

Who are the shitty midwestern locales fielding final 4 teams. I’ll wait…

It’s a super short list….

To everyone else, the above is my over arching long-winded point we’re not honest with ourselves about what we expect. We say things like tons of shitty midwestern locales field, Good teams…

Well, I didn’t know we wanted a good team I thought we wanted a team that would go to the final four… Because we have fielded plenty of good teams….

I swear to God, fans and I don’t mean our fans. I mean all fans have some odd belief that everybody else, but them is doing really good…

Only one team wins a national championship every year, only four teams go to the final four and only eight teams go to the elite eight and quite frankly often times it’s the same damn teams….

And I like to keep repeating that the last coach that went to a sweet 16 we ran out of town…

I’d say we’re getting what we deserve…🤷‍♂️

 

[Dr. Phil Seuss]

Who are the shitty midwestern locales fielding final 4 teams. I’ll wait…

It’s a super short list….

To everyone else, the above is my over arching long-winded point we’re not honest with ourselves about what we expect. We say things like tons of shitty midwestern locales field, Good teams…

Well, I didn’t know we wanted a good team I thought we wanted a team that would go to the final four… Because we have fielded plenty of good teams….

I swear to God, fans and I don’t mean our fans. I mean all fans have some odd belief that everybody else, but them is doing really good…

Only one team wins a national championship every year, only four teams go to the final four and only eight teams go to the elite eight and quite frankly often times it’s the same damn teams….

And I like to keep repeating that the last coach that went to a sweet 16 we ran out of town…

I’d say we’re getting what we deserve…🤷‍♂️

Who is demanding FF here? We can’t even get to the sweet 16. But since you asked, our arch rival, neighbor, and most closely resembled program has done the following since our last sweet 16.

17 round of 32
10 sweet 16s
4 elite 8s
3 final fours
1 national runner up

 

[Underscore2]

I hope that BG is busy starting to fix what Barta worked long and hard to break - basketball.

Intensional or not, my feeling is the guy never had a clue about what the program really needed. He just overpaid the men's basketball coach thinking that would solve everything. Complete disaster in every aspect.

Obvious need now, the most "stop the bleeding" item, is to have NIL available for the players the coaches want. Not necessarily all the multi-million-wanting premadonna players that are selfish and turn out to be busts. I don't know what she could do, but would hope she's working on just that.. what can she do, creatively, to help the fix the disaster that was Barta.