Illinois teacher fired for stepping on U.S. flag

[cigaretteman]

I guess the school board didn't get his point!

A teacher in eastern Illinois has been fired for stepping on a small U.S. flag during a lesson on free speech.

The Martinsville School District board voted 6-0 to fire English teacher Jordan Parmenter. Martinsville is about 80 miles southeast of Champaign near the Indiana state line.

The district had placed Parmenter on leave after the May 15 incident.

Parmenter has said he used the flag as a pointer during a lesson on free speech at Martinsville Junior-Senior High School.

A student complained that the teacher was being disrespectful, and Parmenter said he then stepped on the flag as an example of free speech.

Parmenter declined to comment about being fired. He said he plans to speak to his union representative.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/...d-for-stepping-on-us-flag-20150630-story.html

 

[anon_snp6dc585nnj4]

You don't do that in rural southern Illannoy. Place is more redneck than deep Mississippi.

 

[Vroom_C14]

Good for the school board (and the kid for reporting it) - there are other ways to demonstrate free speech then desecrating the flag that others have died for...

 

[WORTHYWISH]

 

[St. Louis Hawk]

I'm betting the teacher gets his job back if he wants it.

Using the best example of free speech -- and a constitutionally protected one at that -- to teach the issue of free speech. Horrors!

And the complaining kid (assuming it was a high school kid) is a complete tool although I respect his First Amendment right to complain.

 

[TexMichFan]

Should have used the confederate flag.

 

[Vroom_C14]

I'm betting the teacher gets his job back if he wants it.

Using the best example of free speech -- and a constitutionally protected one at that -- to teach the issue of free speech. Horrors!

And the complaining kid (assuming it was a high school kid) is a complete tool although I respect his First Amendment right to complain.

his right to complain is a much better example of free speech then stepping on the flag so many have fought for. Teacher won't get fired - just put on paid admin leave for 30 years. .

 

[St. Louis Hawk]

his right to complain is a much better example of free speech then stepping on the flag so many have fought for. Teacher won't get fired - just put on paid admin leave for 30 years. .

I understand that many have fought and died for the flag. That's why stepping on it is a far better example of free speech:

If there is a bedrock principle underlying the First Amendment, it is that the government may not prohibit the expression of an idea simply because society finds the idea itself offensive or disagreeable. -- Justice Brennan

 

[ottumwan in tx]

Obama shreds the constitution daily , and nothing

 

[SSG T]

Umm, it's a violation of US Code punishable by a fine up to $1000 or up to a year in prison (not that the punishment happens all that much).

Basically, not knowing the entire circumstance, while the school board might have overdone their punishment, it was likely within their purview to do so. And regardless of the point, he might want to check laws prior to voicing "free speech".

 

[Vroom_C14]

I understand that many have fought and died for the flag. That's why stepping on it is a far better example of free speech:

If there is a bedrock principle underlying the First Amendment, it is that the government may not prohibit the expression of an idea simply because society finds the idea itself offensive or disagreeable. -- Justice Brennan

I hope that if a teacher does that in one of my son's classes - that my son walks up and drops the POS and claims freedom of speech - I was talking with my fist! Or better yet, he use the quote you put out there.

 

[cigaretteman]

I hope that if a teacher does that in one of my son's classes - that my son walks up and drops the POS and claims freedom of speech - I was talking with my fist! Or better yet, he use the quote you put out there.

Your son's freedom to swing his fist ends where it contact's someone else's nose.

 

[Vroom_C14]

Your son's freedom to swing his fist ends where it contact's someone else's nose.

It's a form of communication, you have been touting it - FREE SPEECH.

 

[cigaretteman]

Umm, it's a violation of US Code punishable by a fine up to $1000 or up to a year in prison (not that the punishment happens all that much).

Basically, not knowing the entire circumstance, while the school board might have overdone their punishment, it was likely within their purview to do so. And regardless of the point, he might want to check laws prior to voicing "free speech".

What are the penalties for the other improper treatments of the flag that we all see every, such as flags a parts of clothing or the improper displays of those giant flags at football stadia?

 

[KitingHigh]

Umm, it's a violation of US Code punishable by a fine up to $1000 or up to a year in prison (not that the punishment happens all that much).

Basically, not knowing the entire circumstance, while the school board might have overdone their punishment, it was likely within their purview to do so. And regardless of the point, he might want to check laws prior to voicing "free speech".

The SCOTUS has determined that the Constitution protects our rights to desecrate the flag. That part of the code is invalid and unenforceable.

 

[ottumwan in tx]

 

[SSG T]

What are the penalties for the other improper treatments of the flag that we all see every, such as flags a parts of clothing or the improper displays of those giant flags at football stadia?

First, if you went to the second link and read the notes section, it's a $1000 fine or up to a year in jail.
Second, did you note where I said the punishment hardly ever happens?

My bigger point, which I also noted, it that the guy should read up on what is actually protected free speech and what is actually covered by US Code before doing something that might be against the law.

 

[SSG T]

The SCOTUS has determined that the Constitution protects our rights to desecrate the flag. That part of the code is invalid and unenforceable.

And so I have been corrected. Noted.

 

[ottumwan in tx]

nobody cares about rules and law any longer

 

[St. Louis Hawk]

First, if you went to the second link and read the notes section, it's a $1000 fine or up to a year in jail.
Second, did you note where I said the punishment hardly ever happens?

My bigger point, which I also noted, it that the guy should read up on what is actually protected free speech and what is actually covered by US Code before doing something that might be against the law.

SSG T - It is protected free speech to burn or step on the flag. You are missing the point that it's not against the law. An unconstitutional law may not be enforced. The Supreme Court ruled on this issue 26 years ago in Texas v. Johnson.

 

[SSG T]

SSG T - It is protected free speech to burn or step on the flag. You are missing the point that it's not against the law. An unconstitutional law may not be enforced. The Supreme Court ruled on this issue 26 years ago in Texas v. Johnson.

See above.

 

[St. Louis Hawk]

See above.

You have to read the notes on the law you cited - it's on the tab from your linked law. I've copied them below for you:

Constitutionality

For information regarding constitutionality of this section as amended by Pub. L. 101–131, see Congressional Research Service, The Constitution of the United States of America: Analysis and Interpretation, Appendix 1, Acts of Congress Held Unconstitutional in Whole or in Part by the Supreme Court of the United States.

 

[SSG T]

You have to read the notes on the law you cited - it's on the tab from your linked law. I've copied them below for you:

Constitutionality

For information regarding constitutionality of this section as amended by Pub. L. 101–131, see Congressional Research Service, The Constitution of the United States of America: Analysis and Interpretation, Appendix 1, Acts of Congress Held Unconstitutional in Whole or in Part by the Supreme Court of the United States.

You miss where kiting corrected me and I noted it?

 

[St. Louis Hawk]

You miss where kiting corrected me and I noted it?

The problems with having an internet conversation. I thought you were referring me to your post citing the laws, not his. My mistake.

 

[anon_snp6dc585nnj4]

I bet most of you flag defending holier than thou types on here wear American flag shirts, American flag underwear and have American flag bumper stickers. Talk about disgracing the flag. But you know, 'Merica.

 

[ottumwan in tx]

 

[coffhawk]

I understand that many have fought and died for the flag. That's why stepping on it is a far better example of free speech:

If there is a bedrock principle underlying the First Amendment, it is that the government may not prohibit the expression of an idea simply because society finds the idea itself offensive or disagreeable. -- Justice Brennan

I wonder if you would be such a staunch supporter of the First Amendment had this teacher stomped on or torn up a photo of President Obama? I think we all know the answer.

 

[SSG T]

The problems with having an internet conversation. I thought you were referring me to your post citing the laws, not his. My mistake.

I was thinking the SCOTUS decision was only regarding burning (since that's what the original challenge was about), not all desecration. Hence when he mentioned it, I re-checked the decision and viola, I was wrong.

 

[ottumwan in tx]

after last week I'm surprised anyone could take a SCOTUS decision seriously

 

[St. Louis Hawk]

I wonder if you would be such a staunch supporter of the First Amendment had this teacher stomped on or torn up a photo of President Obama? I think we all know the answer.

I bet I would have said the same thing based on two facts. One, I practice media law, and two, I have consistently said there are a number of things I do not like about this Administration, including its overall lack of transparency, its relationship with the working press, its FOIA policy, its drone policy, and the IRS inquiry into conservative groups (plus the associated email debacle), which was their biggest transgression. But I'll let the regular readers of this board make up their mind.

 

[HotelAlphaWilcoKilo]

I wonder if you would be such a staunch supporter of the First Amendment had this teacher stomped on or torn up a photo of President Obama? I think we all know the answer.

What a dumb twat.

 

[HawktimusPrime]

Nice

 

[sijoint]

his right to complain is a much better example of free speech then stepping on the flag so many have fought for. Teacher won't get fired - just put on paid admin leave for 30 years. .

Update......the schoolboard changed their mind.....decided to drop their reason for firing him from desecrating the American flag to a more serios reason....... for acting stupid in front of students anf misrepresenting himself as a responsible, mature adult.

 

[Jan Itor]

I guess the school board didn't get his point!

A teacher in eastern Illinois has been fired for stepping on a small U.S. flag during a lesson on free speech.

The Martinsville School District board voted 6-0 to fire English teacher Jordan Parmenter. Martinsville is about 80 miles southeast of Champaign near the Indiana state line.

The district had placed Parmenter on leave after the May 15 incident.

Parmenter has said he used the flag as a pointer during a lesson on free speech at Martinsville Junior-Senior High School.

A student complained that the teacher was being disrespectful, and Parmenter said he then stepped on the flag as an example of free speech.

Parmenter declined to comment about being fired. He said he plans to speak to his union representative.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/ct-illinois-teacher-fired-for-stepping-on-us-flag-20150630-story.html

Who was the principal that was downgraded for voicing his opinion?

 

[coffhawk]

What a dumb twat.

You shouldn't talk about St. Louis Hawk in such hateful terms. Can't you simply disagree?

 

[theIowaHawk]

Good for the school board (and the kid for reporting it) - there are other ways to demonstrate free speech then desecrating the flag that others have died for...

We should be able to answer this fairly easily:

Can those who "died for it" step on it?

How about all of them in unison?

If none of them can step on it, it defeats their status as "those who died for it", in my opinion.

 

[WORTHYWISH]

We should be able to answer this fairly easily:

Can those who "died for it" step on it?

How about all of them in unison?

If none of them can step on it, it defeats their status as "those who died for it", in my opinion.

I see what you did there.

 

[MichiganManLifer]

You don't do that in rural southern Illannoy. Place is more redneck than deep Mississippi.

Did you spell Illinois wrong to be funny or because you're an idiot?

 

[Vroom_C14]

We should be able to answer this fairly easily:

Can those who "died for it" step on it?

How about all of them in unison?

If none of them can step on it, it defeats their status as "those who died for it", in my opinion.

That is fine, you have no honor or respect for people I understand - sad but understand. It must be nice to have never served, put your life on the line for anyone and probably never will. You would rather sit back, watch (even if it were your own getting killed) and think of all the possibilities, except stepping up to defend.

Good luck to you the remainder of your life.

 

[theIowaHawk]

That is fine, you have no honor or respect for people I understand - sad but understand. It must be nice to have never served, put your life on the line for anyone and probably never will. You would rather sit back, watch (even if it were your own getting killed) and think of all the possibilities, except stepping up to defend.

Good luck to you the remainder of your life.

You want to legislate honor and respect?

You didn't even answer the question: Can those who have fought for "it" step on it? I guess my question was a little strange, considering dead people can't step on it, but I'm sure you knew what I was saying.

In my experience the people taking the hardest line like you are here are the people who haven't "served" either.